It had been a long war. For the last remnants of this shattered kingdom, it had been a battle they could not win. The King of the North had been waging war on East, West and South, of the West existed nothing but broken monuments, and those things too big or ugly to steal.
Time passed, and with it the dust settled. The North saw many victorious battles, rudely cutting a path through the land, washing it in blood and treachery at every step. A grand ball had been announced! A banquet in honor of his recent 'victory', hosted by the Northern King himself. The North settled on it's lourels, no thought spared for the vanquished West - for they were the enemy, were they not. Certainly beneath them, these West Kingdomers.
And so it was that the Nothern king's HomeGuard did not pay particular attention to the flicker in the candlelight that evening; the slight disturbance in the shadows did not cause any alarm. Snapping to attention, a lone guard patrolling the outer gates saw a brief flash of color - red, crimson blood - his own, flashing before him. "Sleep well, Northerner" said a soft voice, floating in the wind of his last breath. The Inner Gates loomed ahead. The hooded elf blended into the shadows and approached the doomed castle. Tonight, it's walls would see the price of their betrayal...
Some disclaimers 1) Compensation for mental anguish due to the bad story outline will be limited to 'oops'. 2) Been playing this build a few months, thought I would post it and try get some idea's on improvement. Have no idea if something similar exists, could not see anything on brief scan of current builds. .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... ....
2. Race: ELF [not many options there. You could try human if you shuffle some feats around though I am not so sure it would work]
3. Alignment: True Neutral would be my option. But any non evil should do.
7. Skill Point Distribution NOTE: You must max the listed skill on the class level, else you may find the build cannot progress at certain points. Rogue Levels : Tumble, UMD, Hide, Move Silently COT Levels : Discipline SD Levels : Tumble, Hide, Move Silently
8. HP Without rerolling, 268 9. AB NAKED with unenhanced weapons of choice: AB (main): +39/+34/+29/+24 AB (offh): +39/+34
10. AC AC: 31 AC with Shadow Evadex3: 53 [on my pw it lasts several hours. Imo this is the way bio should have implemented it, so ignore this if your pw is not setup as such].
11. Saves Fortitude: 24 Reflex: 42 Will: 19
12. PLAYABLE 1-40 PvM [field-tested on World of Amon, as well as the Novice To Epic Character Maker (CEP Edition) test mod]
CONS: 1) Low HP. I got 268 with good-ish rolls; but you can do better with max rolling. 2) Not great ab. You could get more without the SC5 featset, but not much.
PROS: 1) SC5. Half of ALL attacks miss you, overridden only by blindfight (not even truesight helps your poor hapless enemies). 2) Epic Dodge. First successful hit for whoever you are currently engaging (the boss or highest ab mob member hopefully) will miss. Worth it's weight in gold. 3) GOOD AC. You can acheive a very good ac with umd'd items.
ITEMS YOU SHOULD GET: 1) Mage Sequencer items. Store up spells and use em as needed. 2) Scrolls - undeath's eternal foe; GMW, Flameblade, ShadowShield and Greater Stoneskin. 3) Dex items - max it out if possible, 4) Monk items. Think monk robes, monk boots if better than rogue ones.
Mobs you should avoid if possible: 1) Casters. Your saves will suck, but you have defensive roll AND slippery mind to help. They don't help much, just a little. 2) Dragons UNLESS you can get +6 or better weapons. Having said that, on the PW I play this build took on a particularly nasty dragon toe-to-toe with no top level items whatsoever.. a pretty hard thing to do, for even the high palemaster builds.
Edited By griphook on 11/15/05 01:12
Sorry to say this if it hurts your feelings. But FORMAT!!!!!!! Why can't new builders just look at three or four old bilds to see if they can get a clue? PLEASE!!!!
What he means is this is difficult to read (and compare to the bajillion other builds posted here): (quote)22) SD6
23) Rogue9/sd6/cot8
24) SD7/r9/cot8 +dex FEATS: Great Dex2[/quote
Instead, write it as: 22 SD 6 23 Rogue 9 24 SD 7 - (Dex +1), Great Dex 2
There's no need to write the other classes in each level. We can simply look earlier in the build to see what they were. At level 24 when you take SD9 I look up one line to see the build just took Rogue 9.
Note there is a shiny, new sticky at the top of the forum to educate how to post builds.
Kaliban. _________________ Intelligent design is neither. Science over superstition please.
To be honest, I don't see much difference except an extra line here and there.. but, aye, a crit is a crit. All the information except playable 1-40 is there though. Here it is again; let me know (yell or send your familiar) if I've dropped the ball again.
***** ***** ***** ***** ***** griphook ..Pasted this over original post above
Edited By griphook on 11/14/05 21:55
Nice ED/SC5 Rogue. Thanks for reposting. I'll call off my toad familiar
Some questions for you....
Why'd you take Exp and Imp Expertise in front of TWF and Imp. TWF? Is AC more important at that level than number of attacks?
With ED and SC5 I think I'd like Epic Prowess over Armor Skin. Thoughts?
Note your dual-wielding AB will probably be different than posted depending on weapon of choice. If you focus in Rapier and dual-wield it, you will suffer a greater penalty (-4 to each attack I think) since it's a medium-sized weapon. If you focus in Short Sword, you can dual wield with only the -2 penalty. Of course you could focus in Rapier, but hold a small weapon in the offhand (mace, short sword, hand axe, etc) but this would reduce your offhand AB.
PS - Nice writeup. It helps people interested in playing this build.
Kaliban. _________________ Intelligent design is neither. Science over superstition please.
Edited By Kaliban99 on 11/14/05 21:18
First off Grip, thanks for fixing that up - makes it a bit less chunky in here Kaliban, thanks for the feedback!
Quote: Epic Prowess over Armor Skin
Actually that would push the ab up nicely without hampering the build too much; good idea. Might even be worthwhile going rapier then, with the slightly better crit range it would be a bit easier on you with DR opponents.
Quote: Note your dual-wielding AB will probably be different than posted depending on weapon of choice
Mentioned the Rapier difference up top (you get a -2 penalty already from dualwielding shortswords); just put it as a comment though, but yeh I should've highlighted it a bit better.
Quote: Exp and Imp Expertise in front of TWF and Imp. TWF
Main reasons, was bonus feat lists - the TWF and ITWF feats are not in the bonus COT list so are not available (afaik?) to COT at these levels. Imp Expert and Expertise are though, and as I was wanting them I took them there. Here's the kicker though: I rarely use the imp expert; even in tough fights (switch out to shield and shadow evades). Any thoughts on better (or more useful) feats to take?
Edited By Khandahr on 11/14/05 22:29
Well, definitely KD/IKD over Expertise/Imp. Expertise since I didn't see it in your build but my reading skills are poor so meh A KDed opponent = free sneak attacks on them for that whole round. And sneaks do a LOT more damage than normal attacks >:) _________________ .:\_/:. Only those who have known darkness in (OvO) their hearts will see the shadows in life... (|__|) ..".."..
Quote: Posted 11/15/05 01:04:39 (GMT) -- Jennalee
Well, definitely KD/IKD over Expertise/Imp. Expertise since I didn't see it in your build but my reading skills are poor so meh A KDed opponent = free sneak attacks on them for that whole round. And sneaks do a LOT more damage than normal attacks >:)
Poor Jennalee - we must get her some updated reading spectacles
Quote: 12 COT2 =+Dex; Ambidex; Expertise
I concur on the KD/IKD though - if they are available as CoT bonus feats then they're always nice tools for a melee rogue. Especially one with 20 levels of Rogue.
Another question just occurred to me: Why did you choose CoT over Fighter? Fighter is nice for a dual-wielding Dex character to augment the so-so damage output since you can get Epic Weapon Specialization. Did you take CoT to avoid the XP penalties? Or for the bonuses to saves?
(I'm always looking for opportunity to turn a rogue build into a Dwarven rogue build ).
Kaliban. _________________ Intelligent design is neither. Science over superstition please.
Edited By Kaliban99 on 11/15/05 03:28
He's using an Elf - I guess that's why. _________________ .:\_/:. Only those who have known darkness in (OvO) their hearts will see the shadows in life... (|__|) ..".."..
Actually, yep both of ye hit it on the nose there. 1) Fighter xp penalties would have made the build a bit tougher to make through most of it's life 2) Saves were a consideration, though to be honest without some good cha items, that ended up not working well.
Another reason, was the feats at the last two levels in epic character level carried on with the same progression as fighter pre-epic (fighter feats start to wane in epic, iirc).
But, a fighter would have little benefit (I think?) over cot here though. Weapon Spec, true, but anything else?
IKD over Imp Expertise... very definitely a good idea; will need to test (iirc they both are in the same list of feats)
If you're only taking Fighter/CoT to ten levels max - the Fighter gets one more feat than CoT and access to weapon specialization (helps with damage output, especially with dexxers) but CoT gets improved saves and a better save progression, like wearing a + to saves item all the time (CoT's saves improvement counts towards the saves cap IIRC - so less useful if save boosters are common). Past ten levels, CoT gets bonus feats every 4th level while fighter still gets feats every +2 levels but the saves keep improving.
It's something of a case of defense vs. offense (and possibly considering EXP-Penalties). _________________ .:\_/:. Only those who have known darkness in (OvO) their hearts will see the shadows in life... (|__|) ..".."..
What he means is this is difficult to read (and compare to the bajillion other builds posted here):
A KDed opponent = free sneak attacks on them for that whole round. And sneaks do a LOT more damage than normal attacks >:)
).