* - Optional Feat + - Bonus Feat % - Any finesseable weapon will do - can change to shortsword for dual wielding (use optional feats) if desired
Skills - Disciple, tumble, UMD, spellcraft. Lots of extra points; these are probably best put into stealth or spread around the lock and trap skills depending on your style.
Ending Vitals: Dex 32
AC 31 356 max hp F 29 R 41 W 29
AB +41, 8d6 sneak attacks
Up to level 5 wizard spells, useful for flame weapon, keen edge (if you aren't using a rapier), improved invisibility, haste, protection from alignment, stat boosts, darkness, ultravision.
FAQ: Q: Isn't 10 levels of wizard too few? Aren't you dispel-bait? A: Yes, it's dispel-bait. But on the bright side, while an enemy spellcaster is dispelling you, you're getting up close to hit them with a knockdown. Or you can sneak up on him and KD him from stealth so he doesn't get the chance.
Q: Why take silent spell? A: Spellbook management. You probably won't be wearing armor anyway so still spell isn't useful, and you'll want to extend buffs if you can, but there aren't many other things you'd want to take with that wizard bonus feat anyway.
Q: Why take wizard levels at all? A: Well there's an obvious advantage in that you can buff up quite effectively even with only 10 wizard levels, and since you are a dex melee, arcane spell failure's not an issue. Flame weapon maxes out at level 10, for example, and solves the "what do you do against a sneak-immune target" problem that plagues dex-melee sneak attackers.
And improved invisibility plus epic dodge is a good thing.
Q: So what's the character build's driving principle? A: As the title says, to be adaptable and adept at many things that are useful to an adventurer. Locks and traps, stealth, melee combat, magic - he's got lots of options and is pretty well-defended too. The character's AB is at the average for a melee, and hsi saves are excellent, especially against spells (in fact you should only ever fail a reflex save vs spells by rolling a 1).
The level 1 identify spell with a small Lore investment goes a long way towards being able to immediately make use of things via UMD, and you can load up Acid Sheath to make sure anything that does get through your defenses regrets it. You can use darkness/ultravision or true strike + IKD to get in crippling sneak attacks.
On top of that, the build gets a lot of optional feats and is easy to adapt for dual wielding, or possibly to take a secondary focus in bows with.
Q: So what's the drawback? I can see why this guy has a lot of capability, surely there's something that he trades off for it? A: The major downside is a bad case of elf-itis: low hitpoints. Luckily you're hard to damage, but no-save damage spells like IGMS will be your achilles heel. You can memorize lesser spell mantle but you will run out of that fast: get in close and get the caster on his keester quickly.
Your buffs are very dispellable, too. In PvE it's likely that neither of these things will make a huge difference, but in my opinion this character isn't very well suited to PvP because of these flaws.
Finally, high-AB enemies with blindfighting could become an issue. But you have a couple strategies to fight that: using called shot arm or getting in some crippling strikes to weaken them is a good, and using darkness to inflict attacker miss chance. _________________ Experience is the mother of good judgement; bad judgement is the father of experience.
Edited By griphook on 11/17/05 15:14
why not considering making wiz14/cot10...It should be approximately the same concerning the number of feats, but you would gain lvl7 spells, meaning bigby forcefull & grasping hand which would work nicely with 8d6 sneaks and crippling strike...
why not considering making wiz14/cot10...It should be approximately the same concerning the number of feats, but you would gain lvl7 spells, meaning bigby forcefull & grasping hand which would work nicely with 8d6 sneaks and crippling strike...
Because, my quick-witted friend, that has been done before, though it was strength-based if I recall, and human as well. The Professional.
I have found Rogue/CoT/Wiz combos to be quite effective, and quite rewarding. I must caution one, however, that a bit of forethought goes into the play and strategy of these types of characters. They're multi-faceted, and they have a variety of ways to deal with tough encounters.
My only suggestion for the Adept--and it's not so much a suggestion as it is a variation-- is to try a strength-based version in which Still is taken over Silent, Longsword and shield over Rapier, Crippling is taken pre-epic, and ESFs in Hide and Move Silently are taken over Epic Dodge.
By the way Xy, at your current 14.42 BPW (builds per week) velocity, you are poised to have more builds entered in the Guild than even the Illustrious Mithdradates. _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
Ariel, Ookla, RIDE!
Eek This is turning out to be quite the hobby
I did look up the other rog/wiz/COT builds and noticed that there were a couple strength versions of the rog/wiz/cot. I figured this guy could join the arcane scout as a dex variant and make a character that benefits rather than suffers from being an elf.
Although, I think this guy would make a good Gnome of Dooooooom too - trade 2 dex for 2 con and I think you can wield the rapier as a 2-handed weapon as well then, multiplying your bonus damage from strength buffing.
The reasons I didn't take more wizard levels, though, were BAB, saving throws, feats, and because I didn't feel that spells over level 5 would be worth the tradeoffs involved with getting them. The only useful level 6 spells to a character with so few caster levels would be globe of invulnerability, true seeing, and greater spell breach, and the only useful level 7 spells would be shadow shield and spell mantle (protection from spells would be almost redundant with this char's saves, and you'd probably be an illusion specialist who couldn't learn it, anyway).
And actually, thinking of caster levels, I think this character benefits alot from being a dex build instead of a strength build because instead of having to memorize Stilled short buffs to cast at the start of combat, he can memorize Extended short buffs - 15 rounds of haste instead of 10, for example. No need to do the strip-tease buffing dance. _________________ Experience is the mother of good judgement; bad judgement is the father of experience.
Dont get me wrong; i havent checked if this combo was popular or even already done...Actually, i quite like this dex variation. I just really dont see the point of cot14 vs wiz14... Correct me if i'm wrong, but your bab doesnt change at all, assuming your swap cot with wiz at epic lvls. The major weakness is that you wont have more than 23 in discipline. You should only loose 1 feat and 4 in saves but you would gain :
Quote: The only useful level 6 spells to a character with so few caster levels would be globe of invulnerability, true seeing, and greater spell breach, and the only useful level 7 spells would be shadow shield and spell mantle (protection from spells would be almost redundant with this char's saves, and you'd probably be an illusion specialist who couldn't learn it, anyway).
plus the bigby line of spells, greater stoneskin, greater spellbreach, IGMS...
I guess depending on the pw you play, you can afford relying in your saves, but on high magic world where 35-40 arent exceptionnal saves, well, this build would die at the 1st deathspell cast...Without true sight, he would be killed in a couple of rounds by a sneaker...
So all in all, i do think having the lvl7 spells is worth the trade ( not to mention that the duration of extended spell would be 28 rounds instead of 20...). It can help, especially agaisnt sneak immuned creatures, against who this build will be weak, or even against sneak immuned creatures with Dr where this build will be totally inefficent imo unless he uses his spells for offense ( and obviously something more than a flame weapon spell )...
Edited By Anglashell on 11/16/05 19:38
This character can't deal with spell resistance and won't have many spells per day, and taking 4 more wizard levels doesn't really change that. Therefore you can't rely on offensive casting in either variant. You can't reliably use even no-save spells (such as IGMS and bigby) offensively with this character because they'll bounce off SR. And even if you have them... you'll have one, maybe 2 a day memorized because you don't have that many spell slots.
For sneak-immune DR targets, you'll have to rely on having a magic sword and using flame weapon. Which shouldn't be in issue in high magic worlds Greater stoneskin's useless in epic levels when you'd get it with this character, and it's doubly useless in high magic worlds. +5 weapons or better bypass it, so it'd only be of any help when you were slumming it and fighting enemies 10-20 levels your junior.
If you want to use direct attack magic you should look for builds with 22 or more caster levels. Frankly I think that this character would be quite effective in most environments; he's not perfect but no build is.
And, I'd like to see a world where unbuffed 35-40 aren't exceptional saves. Heck the maximum saves possible - by exploit! - are mid-60s. And the maximum spellsave DC a player character caster can possibly reach is 10 + 6 (focus) + 14 (base stat) + 6 (stat buff) + 9 (max spell level) +3 (certain spells only) = 48. In most cases though, 45. For lower level spells, less.
I think this character's got a very good chance, unbuffed and naked, of surviving a death spell, like say, a 40% chance at worst (37 save vs spell + 12 roll or better vs DC 48) and a 55% chance at worst against, I think, any death magic but Implosion. _________________ Experience is the mother of good judgement; bad judgement is the father of experience.
Edited By Xylophone on 11/16/05 20:24
I side with Xylo on leveling.
As far as the saves are concerned. They are better the more high magic the world gets. NOT the opposite. Reasoning is this. No matter how high magic, the casters can only raise save DC by 6, from stat buff. His saves, in a high magic world can be raised much more. 19 more if I am correct. 6 from Stat buffs and 13 to reach the +20 save cap. CoT already uses 7 from that cap. From mid magic up, he would make most saves.
This is turning out to be quite the hobby 
Greater stoneskin's useless in epic levels when you'd get it with this character, and it's doubly useless in high magic worlds. +5 weapons or better bypass it, so it'd only be of any help when you were slumming it and fighting enemies 10-20 levels your junior.