The basic idea behind this build was to create another strong Ranger for melee, with reasonable prowess as well as having a few tricks up the sleave. A solid AB, HP, AC and saves were the primary goal. I wanted to get a first strike sort of thing, which is the reason for all of the initiative. A solid combat presence combined with a decent strategist.
Name: Forest Shadow Classes: Ranger 23, Champion of Torm 10, Shadowdancer 7 Playable 1-40, PvM Race: Human Alignment: any non-evil
Starting Stats:
Str 14 to 26 Dex 14 Con 14 to 16 Wis 14 Int 14 Cha 8
21 Champion of Torm6 - Epic Skill Focus: Move Silently, Epic Weapon Focus: Scimitar 22 Shadowdancer4 23 Ranger13 24 Champion of Torm7 - Great Strength I 25 Champion of Torm8 - Epic Prowess 26 Ranger14 27 Shadowdancer5 - Great Strength II 28 Ranger15 - FE: Construct 29 Ranger16 30 Ranger17 - Superior Initiative 31 Champion of Torm9 32 Shadowdancer6 33 Ranger18 - Great Constitution I 34 Champion of Torm10 - Armor Skin 35 Ranger19 36 Ranger20 - Great Constitution II, FE: Dragon 37 Shadowdancer7 38 Ranger21 39 Ranger22 - Epic Will 40 Ranger23 - Bane of Enemies
Skills:
Hide 43[45] Move Silently 43[55] Discipline 43[51] Tumble 40[42] Set Traps 19[21, 23 with synergy bonus] Animal Empathy 21 Spot 43[45] - should see most things coming Search 20[22] - can detect all deadly traps Disable Trap 1[3, 5 with synergy bonus] (2cc) Spellcraft 8[10] (16cc)
Spells:
1: Camo, Resist Elem, Ultravis 2: Cat's Grace, One with Land, Protect from Elem 3: Aid, GMF, Invis Purge 4: Mass Camo, Freedom of Movement, Polymorph Self
HP: 546 max
AC: 22 naked (29-30 buffed with Large Shield and Chainshirt)
AB: 41/etc.
Saves:
Fort: 31[33] Reflex: 30[32] Will: 27[29]
Pros:
Good saves backed up with Slippery Mind, Evasion, Defensive Roll, Uncanny Dodge 2 (+1 vs traps) Good HP Decent AB Decent AC Ranger spells to buff animal and yourself Stealth option, even with armour and shield (-6 to skills, -4 in chainshirt only) Three different servants: Summon Shadow, Animal Companion, Dominated Animal Trap Setting and recovery General usefullness of healing and lore First Strength-based meleer to strike with +12 to initiative IKD sits you down to shut you up HiPS for quick retreat and strategic movement Darkvision, Shadow Daze, Shadow Evade, Trackless Step, free ITWF, FE's culminating with BoE Not feat nor skill starved!
Basic strategy includes buffing animal companion, maybe shadow as well, and preparing traps ahead of time. Grab an animal to dominate and then make your stand. Make good use of stealth in really tough fights.
Comments, suggestions, ridicule all welcome. Well, maybe not so much on the ridicule...
-c _________________ “If you bring a Ranger with you, it is well to pay attention to him...”
Edited By griphook on 11/25/05 20:24
I would prefer to delay the last CoT level in order to pickup Bane of Enemies earlier.
33 Ranger18 - Epic Toughness I 34 Ranger19 35 Ranger20 - FE: Dragon 36 Ranger21 - Bane of Enemies 37 Shadowdancer7 38 Champion of Torm10 - Armor Skin 39 Ranger22 - Epic Will 40 Ranger23 - Epic Toughness II
Also, by switching the Great CON feats to Epic Toughness, you would keep the same HP and lose only +1 Fort, but since that save is already high enough it won't affect the build a lot. (I noticed Great Constitution is not a ranger bonus feat...)
This is a good way to approach the Ranger class. My only suggestions would be to find a way to get more FEs and Bane earlier. 3 more Ranger levels would get you 2 more FEs and a stronger pet. Not sure what you would have to sacrifice though.
As it stands now, the only immediate change would be to postpone CoT5 until level 20 (since CoT5 is a "dead level" under its current condition, Divine Wrath won't be of much benefit). This will allow you to accelerate your Ranger levels to gain quicker access to spells and your 3rd FE. _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
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To Saosin,
thanks. I like that leveling, but i do prefer the Great Cons over the Epic Toughnesses. While not critical, as you mentioned. Getting BoE earlier would be much better though. It wasn't one of my goals when building though. I think that anything which nets me BoE earlier, in retrospect, is good. Thanks.
To Grizz,
As I mentioned, I wasn't focusing on getting BoE, nor FE's, too early. I think that damage is alright by itself, but the boost is what makes Ranger so worthwhile. My main aim was, which i really should have mentioned but didn't because I am silly, is that I wanted to get the saving throw bonus feats from SD, the good saves from CoT, while having the Ranger as the primary class for the build. I did alright, but the BoE thing still kinda bugs me.
I think you are right. Pushing CoT5 to the end of pre-epic is a good move. Those Ranger levels just don't come in fast enough with those CoT levels in the way, but I needed them to be able to grab the initiative feats without sacrificing combat ability (which i already did to some extent by leaving out expertise, disarm and called shot).
btw, grizz, i am trying out the Journeyman Grim in HotU, with a small change - taking assassin levels one higher then listed to boost UMD more effectively. Pretty tough char. thanks.
This build, sadly, can't get much better, but its not too bad to being with. Unless someone comes up with a really inspired idea to help this char, which I would be glad to hear.
-c _________________ “If you bring a Ranger with you, it is well to pay attention to him...”
I would give serious thought to dropping any SD until 22nd level - taking Ranger 16, then CoT 5 (this maximises your save potential by that point). Your BAB can reach 30 by doing this. You sacrifice your HIPS and Tumble until then, but lets be honest you can level to 22 fairly quickly all the same.
If you did leave it until epic, then both Dodge and Mobility can be taken later in the pre-epic stages, letting you take, KD, IKD, Toughness, Imp Crit, Imp Init earlier in the build.
I tried to understand how you got your skillspread on a base of INT 14. From that you only get 295 skillpoints:
Whilst on skills, perhaps of note is the synergy in Set and Disable Traps of a +2 bonus when you have 5 ranks in each.
How much do you really want SD 7? Is it just for Slippery Mind? Not sure how much safer I would feel being able to reroll my Will save.
I would consider taking Ranger 25 and SD 5 instead... as your FE bonus would raise by 1 point, you would gain an Epic Ranger Feat, allowing you take Epic Prowess there, and in turn freeing an epic CoT feat for Superior Initiative. This would give you an extra feat in epic that could be taken (perhaps ESF: Hide, Epic Fort or Reflex).
Again, perhaps Luck of Heros at 1st and dropping Lightning Reflex altogether (gain +1 to Fort, Will and Reflex instead of +2 Reflex only)
I would give serious thought to dropping any SD until 22nd level - taking Ranger 16, then CoT 5 (this maximises your save potential by that point). Your BAB can reach 30 by doing this. You sacrifice your HIPS and Tumble until then, but lets be honest you can level to 22 fairly quickly all the same.
true, but i thought that getting tumble early was a good idea. otherwise i might have gone for something more like HS instead of SD, and then used the epic feats gained there. also, with stacking cat's grace, it woulda been sweet. i think this idea has merit, but i decided that SD what more to offer. Tumble earlier, HiPS, evasion, slippery mind, defensive roll, uncanny dodge 2, shadow evade, summon shadow...a lot of perks for 7 levels of SD. whether BAB is 29 or 30, i thought made little different.
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If you did leave it until epic, then both Dodge and Mobility can be taken later in the pre-epic stages, letting you take, KD, IKD, Toughness, Imp Crit, Imp Init earlier in the build.
true. potayto, potahto.
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I tried to understand how you got your skillspread on a base of INT 14. From that you only get 295 skillpoints:
i don't know what i was thinking here. i checked my original layout and such, and i have no idea how those added up. something went screwy with my math. should read something more like this.
Hide 43[45] Move Silently 43[55] Discipline 43[51] Tumble 40[42] Set Traps 19[21, 23 with synergy bonus] Animal Empathy 21 Spot 43[45] - should see most things coming Search 20[22] - can detect all deadly traps Disable Trap 1[3, 5 with synergy bonus] (2cc) Spellcraft 8[10] (16cc)
sorry for the confusion. i offer up a heaping plate of suckling pig for the God of Edits, griphook, should he see this and perhaps change it for me. ***** ***** griphook .Changed ***** ***** Thanks for the catch, sam. this build no longer has the abundant skills points to play with, but still enough to fool around and tweek to your preferences.
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Whilst on skills, perhaps of note is the synergy in Set and Disable Traps of a +2 bonus when you have 5 ranks in each.
good point. rather helpful. see above edit.
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How much do you really want SD 7? Is it just for Slippery Mind? Not sure how much safer I would feel being able to reroll my Will save.
I would consider taking Ranger 25 and SD 5 instead... as your FE bonus would raise by 1 point, you would gain an Epic Ranger Feat, allowing you take Epic Prowess there, and in turn freeing an epic CoT feat for Superior Initiative. This would give you an extra feat in epic that could be taken (perhaps ESF: Hide, Epic Fort or Reflex).
i thought that the will save was good enough to warrant the slippery mind. the odds of failing both saves would be much lower than by itself. although the feat does come so late in the build that i doubt the effectiveness of it. your idea is again pretty good. ESF Hide isn't really necessary, but something like Epic Fort or Epic Reflex sure wouldn't hurt.
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Again, perhaps Luck of Heros at 1st and dropping Lightning Reflex altogether (gain +1 to Fort, Will and Reflex instead of +2 Reflex only)
Just some thoughts for you
hmm...i debated that, but this means pushing other combat feats back a bit, unless i take your previous suggestion into account as well. this seems like a pretty good way to go about it (the combined thoughts, i mean. seperately they are intriguing but not buld shattering). i wanted to get relfex higher to make good use of defensive roll and evasion, but the one point different really isn't that big of a deal i suppose.
thanks for the comments and suggestions. any others are of course welcome.
-c _________________ “If you bring a Ranger with you, it is well to pay attention to him...”
.Changed