Not sure if there is a niche market for this little guy, but this is for all those Fighter10/Rogue2/Weaponmaster28’s in the world. Good night, and good luck!
The premise of this build is to build a stealth character who can go quite high on the Stunning Fist DC(45 minimum), paralyze opponents in the first round, and finish them with sneak damage. I attempted about 15 different variations, and found the build that did not have Monk to be the most lethal. However, all of the Monk variants enjoyed a much higher AC—between 36-40 in most of them—, but still had problems doing damage. It would have been nice to even have taken 1 level of Monk, but as soon as one does, the number of Stunning Fists you have become assigned to that Monk level. Only if one takes 11+ levels of Monk can you get more Stunning Fists than with a non-monk character. Still, I enjoyed high success with a Monk19/SD5/Ftr16.
There’s some irony in that I achieved my best results with a non-monk Halfling. If one were really hellbent on cranking the DC, there are quite a few Fighter Bonus feats in Epic that could still be spent on Improved Stunning Fist (4 to be exact). That would give a DC of 53. Few, if any, will make that save continuously. With 13 Stunning Fists at your disposal, you can let her rip. Beware, however, of Palemasters—those things that are immune to Crits are Immune to Stunning Fist. Not to mention your Sneaks.
The Shadowboxer
PvP Only, Level 40 Build
Rogue19/Fighter20/Shadowdancer1 Race: Halfling Alignment: Any
A one-trick pony? Yes. But it’s a good trick. Also, one could always sink points into Discipline, but I figured there was no point. But it still is an option on the table if one can get their hands on some Discipline enhancing items.
At some point, though, one has to consider whether or not it would just be easier to take make a pure Assassin. However, to get to a 45 Death Attack DC, one would need 30 levels of Assassin (no room for Epic Dodge) and a 20 unmodified Intelligence. That, I suppose, is just as extreme.
In regards to setting: as noted at the beginning, this is strictly a level 40 build and only for a PvP setting, and even that should be a low magic setting. Do not attempt to run him through modules, PWs or OCs. You won’t make it. His weapons are his fists, so he’ll need some very good gloves if you need to pierce some DR. A UMD35 should insure you can lay your hands on the best Monk equipment.
Okay, now I’m ready for somebody to school me.
And no, this build does not qualify for a story—unless it were a comedy. _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
Ariel, Ookla, RIDE!
Edited By Kail Pendragon on 06/30/09 23:05
I do love this concept, Grizz. Full marks for originality! Are you even certain this isn't playable PvM? You could use a finessable weapon and shield if need be and go with your stealth Rogue tactics. Might be an interesting challenge. _________________ Wave upon wave of demented avengers marched cheerfully out of obscurity into the dream...
Hm, it is a funny little cretin. A rogue with UMD should be playable. I too have noticed that unarmed is almost as good as weapons with a dex sneaker, I found that with my Tiny Reaper.
Regarding the little Death attack vs Stunning fist debate you run with yourself here, it is much easier to protect against Death attack. Anything with freedom or immune to paralyze stops death attack, methinks. Stunning fist can only be stopped by Saving and if crit immune according to what you say. I did not know that last part.
Polints for originality, and for fooling everyone to think you are a monk.
Another challenge, if this only qualifies for Comedy, write us one.
Great job on another unique build, Grizz.
Kaliban. _________________ Intelligent design is neither. Science over superstition please.
Another challenge, if this only qualifies for Comedy, write us one.
The Punchdrunk Halfling? The Deadly Small Fry? Lethal Half-Pint? Hell's Hobbit? It's too easy.
Quote: Posted 11/26/05 05:33:56 (GMT) -- Cinnabar Din Are you even certain this isn't playable PvM? You could use a finessable weapon and shield if need be and go with your stealth Rogue tactics. Might be an interesting challenge.
Yeah, I was wondering that myself the more I playtested him. I figured he might have a hard time pre-epic until he got Stunning Fist going, but he still sports a high Dex and weapon Finesse and good sneak damage. His Will save will be way above the average Rogue, so there is some potential there.
In the original level scheme, I placed SD1 at Level8 to help contribute to the playability. In doing so, 3 of the pre-epic Rogue levels had to be pushed to Epic, and 2 fighter levels had to be pulled back to pre-epic. This allowed a 16BAB to be maintained as well as securing Toughness pre-epic, but Epic Dodge is delayed by one level, EWS by 4, and Stunning Fist DC drops by 2. Worth doing if you really want HiPS early and Toughness, but otherwise I'd leave it as is.
But I still think his best career lies in the hands of a disgruntled PvPer who has been getting critted by some Weaponmaster from Hell. The simple beauty in this guy is that he can just walk up to somebody, touch them, and then kill them. No items, no buffs, no enhancements, no weapons, no armour, no anything. Hell, when I did playtests I forgot to invest skillpoints into, well, everything (wait, I did have 10 Hide, 7MS, 5 Tumble for SD requirements). You walk up to your opponent, you don't even have to HiPS, Stunning Fist their butt and then 120d6 sneak dice should do the job. For those who want a no-HiPSter version, I would go Rogue20/Ftr10/CoT10. The only difference is that you have higher saves but no HiPS. Otherwise everything remains the same(well, you do need to take a Focus is a melee weapon, perhaps shortsword, handaxe or mace, as you combo that with a shield). _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
Ariel, Ookla, RIDE!
Edited By grizzled_dwarflord on 11/27/05 01:46
I love it, fantastic work. This has to be one of the most original builds Ive seen in a long time.
Syrath _________________ It's SHADOWDANCER, dammit, shadowdancer!!!
Nice! You succeed where all my efforts at a goof stunning fist user failed, and not even a monk! Truly the master, grizz _________________ .:\_/:. Only those who have known darkness in (OvO) their hearts will see the shadows in life... (|__|) ..".."..
not too bad. but the Sacriledge! a stunning fist user with monk levels. it would never have even occured to me. funny, but i was just yesterday thinking about the uses of stunning fist, but never in something like this.
well done, as usual. i like the comical names you invented. hell's hobbit seems about right.
-c _________________ “If you bring a Ranger with you, it is well to pay attention to him...”
Edited By christian.schnabel on 11/28/05 05:09
*wanders in and gives this one his Halflings of Doooooooom Stamp of Approval*
I just love it whens omeone comes up with a build that makes a halfling into a killer combatant like this _________________ Experience is the mother of good judgement; bad judgement is the father of experience.
A quick question: the fact you take ISF means that the Grimoire is wrong when it says ISF requires Monk 21st as a prereq, right?
Correct. Grizz tested this character, so it can be built as is. _________________ Wave upon wave of demented avengers marched cheerfully out of obscurity into the dream...
Yeah, the dwarflord would never post an untested build. So the only requirements are DEX 19, WIS 19 and maybe epic character, right?
Quote: Posted 12/06/05 21:32:59 (GMT) -- Kail Pendragon Yeah, the dwarflord would never post an untested build. So the only requirements are DEX 19, WIS 19 and maybe epic character, right?
I don't have Cinn's faith, so just built it to make sure. Would seem so (+ stunning fist ofc) _________________ The following statement is true. The above statement is false.
Quote: Posted 12/06/05 21:32:59 (GMT) -- Kail Pendragon Yeah, the dwarflord would never post an untested build. So the only requirements are DEX 19, WIS 19 and maybe epic character, right?
I don't have Cinn's faith, so just built it to make sure. Would seem so (+ stunning fist ofc)
Hehe, it wasn't on faith. We PMed each other and discussed the build before it was posted, so I know he built it in a leveller. _________________ Wave upon wave of demented avengers marched cheerfully out of obscurity into the dream...
Been looking at this one for a while Grizz... finally got round to testing it out. Very interesting concept and a lot of fun to rp I'd wager.
I was curious though, I could only manage 322 HP and a Reflex save of 31.
Otherwise nice work.
Very cool character. Did you try monk 9/ rogue 19/ fighter 12 ? No HiPS of course and 2 fewer stunning fists but same sneak and stunning fist dc and no penalty when using stunning fist. Also slightly better saves. Seems like a good option too.
Quote: Posted 05/01/06 16:29:21 (GMT) -- Bruce Lee 72
Very cool character. Did you try monk 9/ rogue 19/ fighter 12 ? No HiPS of course and 2 fewer stunning fists but same sneak and stunning fist dc and no penalty when using stunning fist. Also slightly better saves. Seems like a good option too.
PM me your schematic and I'll give it a look. Off the top of my head, it looks like you may lose out on some ISFs, DC, # per day, and HiPS, but gain better AC and perhaps playability. _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
Ariel, Ookla, RIDE!
I want to give you credit for this one!
You ask about it's usefulness other than PvP.
I took the build to the toolkit and made two NPC blueprints. One lvl 40 identical to yours, and one lvl 30 with a little less sting, and still a legal build.
I use them in hostile encounters in some new epic areas I've made on the Anchorome pw where I play, build and DM.
The players really struggle with the stunning fist/sneak attack combination. And people think they are monks, and don't understand why they hit so hard. _________________ The curve is more powerful than the sword -- BG courtesan
Mick, that's just wrong, so, so, wrong. But I like it! _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
Ariel, Ookla, RIDE!
But not a good idea to post here. As I have experienced from my own PW, quite a few recognize me from these pages and read here. _________________ We are sons of Odin, and the fire that we burn inside is the legacy of warrior-kings who reign above in the sky I will lead the charge, my sword into the wind Sons of Odin fights to die and live again
Edited By Grimnir77 on 04/20/07 19:42
Once it get epic dodge, this build becomes quite playable PvM in my experience. Especially in a low magic setting. It's definately one of my favorite builds in the guild.
Quote: Posted 04/20/07 19:41 (GMT) -- Grimnir77
But not a good idea to post here. As I have experienced from my own PW, quite a few recognize me from these pages and read here.
I don't worry too much about that. Sooner or later the players will find ways of beating the challenge. When that happens, I can just add a different twist to things. _________________ The curve is more powerful than the sword -- BG courtesan
Heh, I love this build, not only for its considerable merit but also for breaking the mold on stunners. Non-monk stunner opens up such possibilities. Cheers, Grizzled Short One.
Ithacan (<---- wonders if being a grizzled for a dwarflord is like being clean shaven for a human?)
