Introduction: "Dozing away during your nightshift. Your troops rest near a lake as they recover from their long trip. You hear the sound of birds drinking and the fish swimming, yet something is making you nervous. After the hours go by you are certain it's just your lack of rest playing with you.
You decide to get some shuteye, but cautious as you are, you keep your sword in your hand and your shield on top of you. Suddenly a rock hits your shield and you are right awake. You stand up and scream "Intruder! Everyone to arms!" … Nobody responds, its dead quiet… again you scream "Wake up damnit! Someone is trespassing!" … again no response.
You are getting worried, thinking; "What could have killed all my men?" You hold your sword and shield firm and patrol the area carefully. It seems that all your troops are unconscious. After a little while you find your officer unconscious. You try to wake him, when you suddenly notice a shiny little object. You pick it up when suddenly something hits you in the back.
It is hurting like mad, you can hardly move. Your shield and sword are feeling heavy… You drop your shield and try to hold your sword with two hands. You try to search for anyone who might still be conscious.
A shiny object hits your hand, you drop your sword only to see your blood on it. You drop on your knees, screaming for help. You are sure nobody hears you… desperately you search your surroundings for what it might be throwing those things. You pick up the shiny object only to see it being a pointy marble.
You hear a sound to your right. Quickly you turn your head only to see your army's weapon rack. Nothing, everything looks normal. But what made that noise? It was the sound of someone or something hitting wood,… right? You are unsure when you suddenly see something moving behind one of the large shields.
You try to concentrate on the large shield, it looks a bit different than the ones your troops use. You focus some more when you suddenly see a head rising above the large shield! Just when you want to scream, a shiny object hits you in the head…
Everything goes black and you hit the ground with a smack…
You feel tired and hurt, but you are determined to figure out who that was. You listen to what happens around you, as you feel the soft dirt of the ground beneath you…
You just can't stay focused and you become unconscious. When you wake up the next day, you find everyone naked and bruised, as it seems that everything… even the pegs of the tents are stolen!"
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I've noticed people really like stories, so there you go, this is the introduction story for my "S.C.S.C.S.S.", aka. "Slippery, Cripply, Self Concealing, Stealth Slinger". (Yes I could not think of a more annoying name than this ) I've come up with this build, through various means, mainly due to someone playing a pure Rogue on my server (running: Battle of the Dragons (PvP) module) And it was really impressive, but it died vs. a lot of good spellcasters. And since you need good saving throws, good AC and a good AB on my server, I thought on modifying his build to a more suitable build for this module. Since I requested such a build in the Epic Build request forum, only Xylophone posted something like it, only it had certain feats at a too high level for the build to be usefull on my server. Since you start at level 4 at the beginning of each round, and at the end of a round you are 24-30 (normal round), but it can end near level 40 if both teams are tied. So I had to come up with something myself!
Starting / Final attributes: Str 6 Dex 20 / 32 Con 14 Int 14 Wis 10 Cha 8
Leveling Guide: 1 Rogue (1), Point Blank Shot 2 Rogue (2) 3 Rogue (3), Weapon Focus: Sling 4 Rogue (4) 5 Rogue (5) 6 Rogue (6), Rapid Shot 7 Rogue (7) 8 Rogue (8) 9 Rogue (9), Weapon Focus: Short Sword (Requirement for CoT) 10 Rogue (10), Crippling Strike 11 CoT (1), Called Shot* 12 CoT (2), Iron Will*, Blind Fight* 13 CoT (3) 14 CoT (4), Improved Critical: Sling 15 CoT (5), Great Fortitude* 16 Rogue (11) 17 Rogue (12) 18 Rogue (13), Improved Evasion, Lightning Reflex* 19 Rogue (14) 20 Rogue (15) 21 Rogue (16), Defensive Roll, Epic Dodge (Make sure you have ranks in Tumble) 22 Rogue (17) 23 Rogue (18) 24 Rogue (19), Slippery Mind, Great Dexterity I 25 CoT (6), Epic Weapon Focus: Sling 26 CoT (7) 27 Rogue (20), Great Dexterity II 28 CoT (8), Epic Prowess 29 CoT (9) 30 CoT (10), Armor Skin, Epic Will* 31 Rogue (21) 32 Rogue (22) 33 Rogue (22), Self Concealment I (Make sure your dex. is 30 and hide& tumble 30 ranks) 34 Rogue (22), Self Concealment II 35 Rogue (22) 36 Rogue (22), Self Concealment III 37 Rogue (22) 38 Rogue (22), Self Concealment IV 39 Rogue (22), Self Concealment V 40 Bard (1) **
Final AB with a mundane sling: 41/36/31/26 Damage output with normal bullets: 1d4 (19-20) + 15d6 Sneak Attack Naked AC: 29 (31 with a Large Shield, remember you can not use Tower Shields!) Max HP: (29 x (6+2)) + (10 x (10+2)) + (1 x (6+2)) = 232 + 120 + 8 = 350
Skillpoints total: 40 + (28 x 10) + (10 x 4) + (1 x 6) = 40 + 280 + 40 + 6 = 366 I maxed out the following skills**: Appraise Discipline Heal Hide Listen Move Silently Spellcraft Tumble You will have 20+ points left if you follow the list above, which I put in concentration.
* You can rearrange those feats for two weapon fighting feats, if you feel like using short swords or daggers, but this build was meant to be a ranged guy with nice saving throws, so I did not feel the need to use any melee weapons.
** I would rather have 1 level Shadow Dancer, but Hide in Plain Sight is banned on my server, because too many people complain the feat being too annoying / good. Thus to max out all the skills I use, I’ve picked 1 Bard level. You can also go with 1 Monk level to get cleave and other extra things, but then you do not have spellcraft as a class skill, which I find more useful than 1 level Monk. Besides you already have Improved Evasion!
*** Feel free to change those skill focuses. I've picked those skills because they are handy with the module I’m running. So they do the trick for me.
Some advantages: Early Crippling Strike Early Epic Dodge Slippery Mind Nice saving throws Decent AB (though it could be 1 point better, but it would screw up some feats I think) Decent Damage Output, when sneaking
Some disadvantages: No HiPS Crappy Damage Output, when not sneaking Cannot use Tower Shields (That would really look cool though) Wearing Armor has almost no use, since that will nerve your dexterity bonus. I’d advise using a nice robe with a large shield to boost your AC. Cannot make use of CoT gained feats, unless you get some Charisma boosting equipment.
I like this build, because it has Crippling Strike very early, and this really makes the difference on my server. Also Epic Dodge at level 21 is quite awesome, yes you can take the feat at that level, I have tested this character 3 times in “The Halls of Advanced Training Deluxe”, so I’m quite sure it works.
This is the first build I’ve posted here, so please be gentle, any advise on improving this build is welcome, but please do keep in mind, the first 24 levels gained feats, should stay in those range, else the build becomes useless for the type of gameplay it’s being used for.
I hope you all enjoy this build as much as I’ve been doing it at the moment, and expect to see more builds from me so now and then
// Maniac_Mailman aka Nr|Five
PS: Please don’t mind the grammar or any other language errors. _________________ "Omnes morimur et quasi aqua dilabimur in terram, qua non revertuntur..." - Maniac_Mailman aka Nr|Five
Don't max Appraise. I can't recall the exact cut-off, but it reaches a point of diminishing returns after around 30 or 35 ranks.
Also, don't completely max Tumble. 40 points is all you need.
Your Spellcraft of 43 ranks +2 modifier points from 14 INT will net you +9 to all saves vs spells.
I'd drop Lightning Reflexes. Your Reflex saves are incredibly high anyway.
Another thing to consider is take FTR instead of CoT. I realize you'll lose the +5 to all saves, but you won't have to take Weapon Focus in a melee weapon if you don't want to do that. Thus, with the extra feat FTR gets at level 1, you'll net yourself 2 feats. _________________ Wave upon wave of demented avengers marched cheerfully out of obscurity into the dream...
Quote: Thus, with the extra feat FTR gets at level 1, you'll net yourself 2 feats.
WS/EWS obviously
I assume your server is team PvP... I seriously think that this character cannot do anything alone. No, I'm not trying to bash your build, but with 1-4 damage without any other way to generate your Crippling Sneak Attacks than stealth (and when your opponents are fighting someone else)... you're very dependant on that Dwarven Defender to keep the enemy off your own back
Well, generally I think it's a build that's good at what it does. Congratulations on your first posted build _________________ < XmikeW> im glad though.. i used to think that -all- finns were supersmart nerds.. but, after seeing 1) (C) law ..2) your culture minister ..and 3) the äm-irk girls... i can say that you guys are definately typical human beings after all [smile_:-)
I did not know about the Appraise not working at a certain point. Though I hardly ever hit lvl 40 when I'm using this build on my server, but thanks for the heads-up. I'll keep it in mind the next time games are taking too long.
+9 to saves is also impressive Did not keep that in mind, only better this way if you ask me!
Well the savingthrows for CoT, outweigh the feats I receive extra from being a FTR (with Battle of the Dragons). Since I already am taking "useless" feats during level up, FTR does give me +6 extra damage, which could change some of the damage output this build lacks when its not doing sneak attacks. I'll try switching CoT with FTR to see what the differences/benefits would bring me.
Thanks for your suggestions, I'll let you know what my findings will be.
// Maniac_Mailman
Edit: Yeah FinneousPJ, its a Team PvP, only you have to battle through alot of troops / guards from the opposing team which you are VERY easy to sneak. Only the dragon itself is hard to sneak (damn those immunities! ) but you should have some other classes who are supporting you. Well the Rogue playing this build on my server was travelling alone quite some time, and he did most of the killing. His first hit was almost the one that would kill you. He would cripple you and then finish you off with ease. But yeah, once he is not sneaking, he be toast
Edit 2: But then again, you can swap those * feats for two weapon fighting or some other melee things and get IKD while you are at it _________________ "Omnes morimur et quasi aqua dilabimur in terram, qua non revertuntur..." - Maniac_Mailman aka Nr|Five
AFAIK crippling strike only works with melee weapons, unless it's been changed.
Deals 2 strenght damage when they make a succesful Sneak Attack. Not sure whether it works everywhere, but I'm quite sure it works on my server. It was the main reason why his build worked so well
// Maniac_Mailman _________________ "Omnes morimur et quasi aqua dilabimur in terram, qua non revertuntur..." - Maniac_Mailman aka Nr|Five
Member of the Epic Character Builders Guild
Actually, I think that's correct: Crippling Strike only activates with a melee weapon. I completely overlooked that.
One other point: if memory serves, a negative STR modifier applies to damage rolls with ranged weapons. While this won't matter at higher levels, it could be a huge factor at low levels with the sling. _________________ Wave upon wave of demented avengers marched cheerfully out of obscurity into the dream...
yup tried it again tonight and you guys are right, crippling only works with melee, so I swapped out Called Shot + Blindfight + Lightning Reflexes for, Weapon Finesse, KD and IKD... took Epic Weapon Focus instead of Epic will.
Now you can sneaky throw rocks and hit quite hard with a tiny sword
Just came from my server, caught myself using the sword more than the sling. Though it was nice to fend off those nasty ranged ppl with a sneak attacking sling. All and all I'm quite pleased with it. It took out many players from the opposing team with ease, though it lacks damage early game, untill you get a decent Sneak Attack or better bullets + sling.
// Maniac_Mailman _________________ "Omnes morimur et quasi aqua dilabimur in terram, qua non revertuntur..." - Maniac_Mailman aka Nr|Five
Ariel, Ookla, RIDE!
why is it that people always think that one level of shadowdancer is cheese, yet one level of bard is deemed acceptable. Many builds could be stronger with only one level of certain classes, yet this reduces strength and playability all the way up. even 3 more bard levels would justify this to me, since you could distribute the skills more evenly, but to each their own. *end rant*
i like the name. rolls off the tongue. looks like you achieved what you aimed to do. nicely done.
-c _________________ Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.
why is it that people always think that one level of shadowdancer is cheese, yet one level of bard is deemed acceptable. Many builds could be stronger with only one level of certain classes, yet this reduces strength and playability all the way up. even 3 more bard levels would justify this to me, since you could distribute the skills more evenly, but to each their own. *end rant*
Mainly because you get one of the more incredibly powerful class-specific feats (HiPS) for that one level, as well as the ability to top up Tumble.
Bard gives you access to several skills to top up, including Tumble and UMD, as well as a Bard Song that's worth +1 AB and damage, but that still doesn't have the cheesy smell that HiPS gives you. (IMO) _________________ Wave upon wave of demented avengers marched cheerfully out of obscurity into the dream...
Quote: Posted 12/06/05 18:01:23 (GMT) -- Cinnabar Din
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Mainly because you get one of the more incredibly powerful class-specific feats (HiPS) for that one level, as well as the ability to top up Tumble.
Bard gives you access to several skills to top up, including Tumble and UMD, as well as a Bard Song that's worth +1 AB and damage, but that still doesn't have the cheesy smell that HiPS gives you. (IMO)
you don't think that getting spellcraft, discipline, taunt, umd, tumble all available and all potentially maxed, for one level of bard, is a little cheesy? just a matter of opinion i suppose.
sorry to the original poster for hijacking the thread.
-c
hehe no worries
Well this forum is about Epic builds, so builds which work good once they are lvl 40. Of course its nice if they are all playable, and as far as I can say with above build. Its quite playable (if you get a nice sword with extra damage or special bullets, which is not really hard to get), the one level of bard I only added to top/max out all of the remaining skills, which are in my case the discipline and spellcraft.
I've read an really long discussion on 1 lvl finishes in Zelle's Shifter Build which uses 1 lvl monk, still all the builds are good. Whether they use 1 lvl or not. Only playing them can be a lot harder if you have to wait for that 1 lvl. It's just a matter of taste/patience I suppose.
Anyway, other critiques?
// Maniac_Mailman _________________ "Omnes morimur et quasi aqua dilabimur in terram, qua non revertuntur..." - Maniac_Mailman aka Nr|Five
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