Bard/Weapon Master/Pale master

Pale weapon

The build that I’m working on at the moment is a Bard WM PM but I’ve been trying to work through a couple of ideas for this but have not worked out what is best. I have seen a couple of builds posted but not quite what I was looking for. I’m going for strength based and the PW I play on has no Dev crit so I’m not looking for a build with out that. I was looking at 4 Attacks and using Shield and Weapon.

I did a Search and these are the 3 builds that came up

Click Here

Click Here

Click Here


Having a look at the other builds i was still not sure how to do the build so i came up with 2 different builds. A build with slightly better AC and one with a better AB.
The Difference is a for the predominately PM build it’s AB 40 AC 33 or for the WM build it’s AB 43 AC 27.

I’ll post the 2 builds and see what you peps think is better

Playable from level 1 - 40 PvM

Str 16 (rest of the Stat increases)
Dex 13
Con 12
Wis 8
Int 13 (1 stat increase)
Cha 14

(Human) Any non Lawful,non Good

1 – Bard 1 – Dodge & Mobility
2 – Bard 2 –
3 – Bard 3 – Expertise
4 – Bard 4 – (Int 14)
5 – Bard 5 –
6 – Bard 6 – Spring Attack
7 – Bard 7 –
8 – Pale 1 – (Str 17)
9 – Pale 2 – Weapon Focus (Mace)
10 – Pale 3 –
11 – Pale 4 –
12 – Bard 8 – Whirlwind Attack (Str 18)
13 – WM 1 – Weapon of Choice (Mace)
14 – WM 2 –
15 – WM 3 – Heavy Armour Proficiency
16 – WM 4 – (Str 19)
17 – WM 5 –
18 – WM 6 – Toughness
19 – WM 7 –
20 – WM 8 – (Str 20)
21 – Pale 5 – Armour Skin
22 – Pale 6 –
23 – Pale 7 –
24 – Pale 8 – Epic Prowess (Str 21)
25 – Pale 9 –
26 – Pale 10 –
27 – Bard 9 – Epic Weapon Focus
28 – Pale 11 – (Str 22)
29 – Pale 12 –
30 – Pale 13 – Imp Critical (Mace) & Epic Energy Resistance Acid (Pale Master)
31 – Pale 14 –
32 – Bard 10 – (Str 23)
33 – Pale 15 – Great Strength 1
34 – Pale 16 – Epic Warding (Pale Master)
35 – Pale 17 –
36 – Pale 18 – Great Strength 2 (Str 26)
37 – Bard 11 –
38 – Pale 19 – Epic Mage Armour (Pale Master)
39 – Pale 20 – Great Strength 3
40 – Bard 12 – (Str 28)

Hit Points – 380
Skill points – 239
Fortitude – 19
Will – 21
Reflex – 24

BAB – 26
AB – 40 (Mundane Mace)
AC – 33 Naked 44 Amour + Shield

Skills I went for
Discipline – 43
Heal – 43
Intimidate – 4
Perform – 22
Spell craft – 40
Taunt – 43
Tumble – 40

Pros over the WM Build
+6 AC
Crit and Sneak immune 4 levels earlier
2 Epic Spells
Better saves

Edited By griphook on 12/08/05 18:56

This Is the Build with the better AB but the AC does suffer a little because of it.

Bard 14 Pale Master 10 Weapon Master 16

Str 16 (rest of the Stat increases)
Dex 13
Con 12
Wis 8
Int 13 (1 stat increase)
Cha 14


1 – Bard 1 – Dodge & Mobility (Human)
2 – Bard 2 –
3 – Bard 3 – Expertise
4 – Bard 4 – (Int 14)
5 – Bard 5 –
6 – Bard 6 – Spring Attack
7 – Bard 7 –
8 – Bard 8 – (Str 17)
9 – Bard 9 – Weapon Focus (Mace)
10 – Bard 10 –
11 – Bard 11 –
12 – Bard 12 – Whirlwind Attack (Str 18)
13 – WM 1 – Weapon of Choice (Mace)
14 – WM 2 –
15 – WM 3 – Heavy Armour Proficiency
16 – WM 4 – (Str 19)
17 – WM 5 –
18 – WM 6 – Toughness
19 – WM 7 –
20 – WM 8 – (Str 20)
21 – Pale 1 – Armour Skin
22 – Pale 2 –
23 – Pale 3 –
24 – Pale 4 – Imp Critical (Mace) (Str 21)
25 – Pale 5 –
26 – Pale 6 –
27 – Pale 7 – Great Charisma 1
28 – Pale 8 – (Str 22)
29 – Pale 9 –
30 – Pale 10 – Blind Fight
31 – WM 9 –
32 – Bard 13 – (Str 23)
33 – WM 10 – Great Strength 1
34 – WM 11 –
35 – WM 12 –
36 – WM 13 – Great Strength 2 & Epic Prowess (WM) (Str 26)
37 – Bard 14 –
38 – WM 14 –
39 – WM 15 – Great Strength 3
40 – WM 16 – Epic Weapon Focus (WM) (Str 28)

Hit Points – 402
Skill points – 243
Fortitude – 17
Will – 19
Reflex – 25

BAB – 27
AB – 43 (Mundane Mace)
AC – 27 Naked (38 Amour + Shield)

Skills I went for
Discipline – 43
Heal – 43
Intimidate – 4
Perform – 21
Spell craft – 40
Taunt – 43
Tumble – 40


Pros over PM build
+3 AB
Level 5 Bard spells
22 More HP

Thanks
bgw Any reason for not starting with STR 15, INT 14, perhaps DEX 14 and taking STR+1 at level 4? You would just lose +1 to AB/damage at level 1-3 but would win a few skill points, +1 to AC and +1 to reflex saves.
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Edited By Kamiryn on 12/06/05 12:32

Quote: Posted 12/06/05 11:20:57 (GMT) -- _bgwells_
Pros over the WM Build
---->+6 AC<----
Crit and Sneak immune 4 levels earlier
2 Epic Spells
!!!!!Better saves!!!!

Pros over PM build
+3 AB
Level 5 Bard spells
22 More HP

For me there is no contest, but then I am nothing if not predictable.


Level 5 bard spells?
Ooooh - be afraid level 40 monster!
I'm going to use my limited cast <<Ethereal Visage? Greater Dispelling? Healing Circle? Mind Fog? Summon Creature V?>>.
Lol, just realised, you haven't raised CHA so you can't even open that tin of whoopass.

edit: Oh and Kamiryn's point is spot on also
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Edited By pocketbeetle on 12/06/05 19:57

Quote: Posted 12/06/05 19:50:27 (GMT) -- pocketbeetle

Lol, just realised, you haven't raised CHA so you can't

I did on the second build, i took great Charisma at lvl 27 to be able to cast the 5 levels spells.

But you are right there is no contest really with what build to use, but i thought it would be worth while to post both any way.

I have to admit that i never thought about the change in the stats, it would help with the AC ealier on but later on I'll be wearing FP. The bonus to the save is always good though.

Thanks
bgw It would be nice to be able to cast the lvl 4 spells stilled though.
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I generally avoid temptation, unless I can't resist it... well if you want to have a bard wm pm ( i hate wm lol,such a feat waste ) i would suggest to go with epic bard , 23bard 7wm 10pm ...ofc ac would suffer , but lastin insp will add +5 at least , prolly switch to only 20 bard ,loose one epic feat and go with 13 pm for +2 ac and 1 epic energy res.

it would be a feat starved build , but you will have the nice crits and curse + taunt+song+warcry will help a lot to hit your enemies.

if your pw has no kd immunty you will get most dexers with balagorns spam , and str based chars you will hit.

prolly should try to fit esf taunt in. Hehe I still prefer my version; Click Here

However I have since made a few other versions of the build, quite a nice one is a dex based version using Dagger for the 19-20 x2 crit:

Stats str - 12, dex - 15, con - 14, int - 14, wis - 8, cha - 14

levelling bard 1-10, pm 11-12, the wm 13 - 20, this means you do have to take weapon finesse at lvl 15 so hopefully you'll be able to survuive until then

then pm 21-28, wm 29-39 & bard 40, taking all standard epic feats as Great Dexterity (i-vii) with bonus weapon master feats; epic prowess, epic weapon focus & armor skin.

Naturally all stat increases go into dexterity -> 32 Dex

This will give an AB of 45 (26 BAB + 4 wf/ewf/ep +11 dex +4 wm levels) with non magical dagger, AC of 45 naked (10 +4 boneskin +11 dex +2 armor skin +8 tumble), saves of 20 fort, 21 will & 34 reflex & a maximum hp of 414
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Quote: Posted 12/08/05 09:24:19 (GMT) -- bloodymerc

well if you want to have a bard wm pm ( i hate wm lol,such a feat waste ) i would suggest to go with epic bard , 23bard 7wm 10pm ...ofc ac would suffer , but lastin insp will add +5 at least , prolly switch to only 20 bard ,loose one epic feat and go with 13 pm for +2 ac and 1 epic energy res.

it would be a feat starved build , but you will have the nice crits and curse + taunt+song+warcry will help a lot to hit your enemies.

if your pw has no kd immunty you will get most dexers with balagorns spam , and str based chars you will hit.

prolly should try to fit esf taunt in.

I'd go 20 bard, 13 pm under that scenario. 23 bard adds mostly skill points and hit points to bard song and costs a lot of skill points to activate. Acid ER is helpful for a melee build against Mestil's Acid Sheath. With lasting inspiration and Level 12 PM, you are looking at +5 and + 8 to AC. something came in my mind , i remember i usedd 21bard 7wm 12 pm ... wont get the epic energy reduction feat but its more playable because you can take the 20th bard lvl earlier and thus get lasting insp in the mid 20ties , the 21st bard lvl on 40 for the skills.