Yep, another Rogue/FTR/CoT (damn, this is a versatile combination!) This is basically your Rogue-heavy FTR/Rogue build (CoT is used just to boost saves). The intent is to build an effective STR-based Rogue that can still do pretty much anything (skill-wise) a DEX-based Rogue can do. He'd be ideal in a party situation, but should quite easily be able to solo in most environments as well.
Now, there may be questions about some of this, so I'll try to anticipate and answer them below.
Skills:
Hide, Move, Tumble, UMD, Discipline, Open Lock, and Spellcraft speak for themselves I think.
Search: is raised to 42 to guarantee he can find any trap in the game, without fail (epic trap detect DC is 43, so 42 + 1d20 = guarantee).
Set Trap: modified value of 47 +20 (Skill Mastery/Take 20) -2 (ACP of scale mail) = no chance of failure to set any trap in the game in any situation whatsoever (epic trap set DC is 65) while wearing his armor of choice (scale).
Disable Trap: is heavily invested. This is done and augmented with Skill Focus in order to get to the magic modifier of 48. Coupled with Skill Mastery, this allows not only disabling, but also recovering of any trap in the game under any conditions (recovery DC of an epic trap is 68, as recovery DC is +10 to Disable DC).
Lore: is topped up with the leftover skill points - you can do what you want with them.
FEATS:
Skill Focus:Disable Traps: I've explained above.
Skill Focus:Spellcraft: is included to bump the modified score to 35, good for +7 vs spells. (I adapted this build from another I was working on and found I had an open feat slot. I figured this was as good a use as any.)
Skill Focus:Set Trap: is taken to offset the -2 ACP of his favored armor (scale).
No WS or EWS: This is because he's meant to stealth around with a big old two-hander. He can sword and board if needed, but the Expertise feat is also taken to help out in rough situations where extra AC is needed and he needs high rolls to hit his opponent anyway. The extra damage from WS/EWS is not of paramount importance due to his bread and butter sneak attacks as well as his +12 damage modifier from STR and a two-hander.
Other Considerations:
DEX is raised to 18 to allow the use of full DEX in scale mail. Scale gives only a -2 modifier to DEX skills (Hide and Move penalties recovered with the Stealthy feat, Set Trap penalty recoverd with the SF:Set Trap feat). This allows me to have a decent Hide and Move skill with a STR-based Rogue, while not almost completely negating the ESF feats due to heavy armor. This also makes the AC acceptable (only 1 less than wearing plate) without having to invest heavily in DEX in order to wear the lighter armors or cloth.
Sorry, no story for this one - I overspent with the muse of late and she's left me for greener pastures. _________________ Wave upon wave of demented avengers marched cheerfully out of obscurity into the dream...
Edited By griphook on 12/26/05 15:20
question: does search allow for take 20? does skill mastery affect it? I'm not sure because the game doesn't give feedback on that skill.
edit: seems like it doesn't work with skill mastery from feat description.
Edited By jjjhhhlll on 12/22/05 00:05
No. No Skill Mastery for Search and no take 20. Both of those only apply to Open Lock, Disable Traps, and Set Traps. _________________ Wave upon wave of demented avengers marched cheerfully out of obscurity into the dream...
Edited By Cinnabar Din on 12/22/05 00:26
thanks. that is what I expected.
Quote: Posted 12/21/05 22:37:14 (GMT) -- Cinnabar Din ...
No WS or EWS: This is because he's meant to stealth around with a big old two-hander. He can sword and board if needed, but the Expertise feat is also taken to help out in rough situations where extra AC is needed and he needs high rolls to hit his opponent anyway. The extra damage from WS/EWS is not of paramount importance due to his bread and butter sneak attacks as well as his +12 damage modifier from STR and a two-hander. ...
this was my first question. i guess that i can understand the lack of need for WS's, when considering a two handed with this much strength, especially when adding in sneak attack. a little knockdown goes a long way here as well as the stealth. i just hate taking fighter without ws.
Quote: Other Considerations:
DEX is raised to 18 to allow the use of full DEX in scale mail. Scale gives only a -2 modifier to DEX skills (Hide and Move penalties recovered with the Stealthy feat, Set Trap penalty recoverd with the SF:Set Trap feat). This allows me to have a decent Hide and Move skill with a STR-based Rogue, while not almost completely negating the ESF feats due to heavy armor. This also makes the AC acceptable (only 1 less than wearing plate) without having to invest heavily in DEX in order to wear the lighter armors or cloth.
i have fooled around with this very concept for a long time and find that with scale or chainshirt this combo is very effective. enough ac to allow for using a two hander. anything less (hide or chainmail) makes me lean towards grabbing a shield. i just wanted to point this out cause i think its neat. if only chain shirts counted as light armour, my rangers would be set!
Quote: Sorry, no story for this one - I overspent with the muse of late and she's left me for greener pastures.
well done on the build. this is a fun class combo to play with. i find the end results quite varied and good for most situations.
-c _________________ “If you bring a Ranger with you, it is well to pay attention to him...”
It works for me. What's not to like about 32 Rogue levels? Ahh, the pain, the glory, the entrails! With all his Skill Foci, I dub thee "The Specialist." _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
Ariel, Ookla, RIDE!
I like this one - strong, skilled and dangerous!
But I wonder if you have done enough to strengthen his will saves, especially the rolls that are not against spells. You have both epic will and slippery mind available. _________________ I generally avoid temptation, unless I can't resist it...
i generally don't find Slippery Mind too helpful - it only works against spells with the descriptor "Mind-Affecting", which is a surprisingly small number.
a nice build, but requires incredibly careful playing. you don't have much HP with all those rogue levels, your AC isn't wonderful, and you didn't take SD either.
/snip/ Slippery Mind /snip/ - it only works against spells with the descriptor "Mind-Affecting", which is a surprisingly small number.
Yes, I see you're right, I missed that point. I still worry about the will saves. _________________ I generally avoid temptation, unless I can't resist it...
i generally don't find Slippery Mind too helpful - it only works against spells with the descriptor "Mind-Affecting", which is a surprisingly small number.
a nice build, but requires incredibly careful playing. you don't have much HP with all those rogue levels, your AC isn't wonderful, and you didn't take SD either.
Yeah, HPs are low (I forgot to include them, but the max possible without gear/spells is 352, I think). But, you can't have everything, and it is supposed to be a skilled Rogue build.
No, AC isn't wonderful. That's why the Expertise feat when needed and there's always the option of sword and board.
No SD either, as that would turn out to be Rogue/FTR/SD, thus resulting in lower saves and I hate relying on HiPS.
I still think it's a playable character, especially in a party, as I mentioned. However, even if he's soloing, he should do alright. This one just requires (as you say) careful playing, tactics, and strategy. He's definitely not a 'run up and bash 'em' type. _________________ Wave upon wave of demented avengers marched cheerfully out of obscurity into the dream...
Yes, I see you're right, I missed that point. I still worry about the will saves.
Will saves are not that bad vs spells for a FTR/Rogue type. If you really want to, you could drop a feat and take Epic Will, but I find most environments will provide you with what you need to cover that, whether it be potions of Clarity, items that make you immune, or PfA scrolls. _________________ Wave upon wave of demented avengers marched cheerfully out of obscurity into the dream...
Actually, I was just about to complain about your Will Save as well. I feel like it's too high for my tastes. Me personally, I like to fail Will Saves, and wear such failures as badges of honor. Somewhere around 16 or 17 is more to my liking, with a scant +2 from Dwarven hardiness, and that's it. Let me have it! I'm not afraid! That which doesn't kill you only makes you run in fear and bump into walls! _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
Ariel, Ookla, RIDE!
Hmm so... when I run into a dungeon with a cracked wall... it must be a sign that the Dwarflord had been feared nearby. _________________ Experience is the mother of good judgement; bad judgement is the father of experience.
Quote: Posted 12/22/05 20:16:20 (GMT) -- Cinnabar Din
Will saves are not that bad vs spells for a FTR/Rogue type.
I agree with that. And you have done some to improve them over all. It's just that this is the heel of Achilles of this kind of builds. I usually end up with imunity items vs mind spells when I play this kind of characters.
Sooner or later it gets boring jackassing into dungeon walls. _________________ I generally avoid temptation, unless I can't resist it...
