For my second attempt at a build, I want to start playing with something that seems not to have been done here before... That is, to make "pure" builds. Almost sounds like a contradiction in terms, but from a RP perspective, I like the idea of having one class and sticking to it, and I wanted to see if I could make some playable characters within the bounds of the game.
I'm starting with a fighter, because I figure that is the simplest to deal with.
Playable 1-40 Party PvM, probably not do too well PvP (I say Party PvM because being a pure fighter is not very versatile. *WILL* need help in the form of henchpixels or party members!)
Aims: * Strength based fighter. 2-handed fighter. * Highly specialised in three weapons to cover all three damage types (no overlaps). Love the heavy flail (will be primary), can't go past Greatsword for slashing, and I decided to get point-blank shot and longbow rather than spear for piercing. Could have chosen rapier and just given up 1.5x STR bonus to damage in return for better crits. * Try to make up for poor saves with saving throw feats.
Race: Human (Half-Orc or Dwarf could work if you could handle penalties on other abilities) Alignment: Any, I'm playing as LN, just a disciplined, well-trained soldier.
Hitpoints: 620 Skillpoints: 129 [chose to max out Discipline (no brainer), Concentration and Lore (could choose heal or a crafting skill if you wanted)] Saving Throws (Fortitude/Will/Reflex): 28/22/23 BAB: 30 AB (max, naked): 42 (melee), 33 (ranged) AC (naked/mundane armor/shield only): 10/21
Pros: * Strong. Can hit hard and reasonably often with a variety of damage-causing weapons. * Quite good HP * Good AB
Cons: * Very average saves. Even Fort is only above-average as CON not bumped anywhere. Other saves improved by feats. * Naked AC useless, but this character will not be naked. Is strong enough to wear a tank, so best armour available will be used (no shield). * Would have liked to get Improved Knockdown but couldn't afford the intelligence!
Edited By griphook on 12/26/05 15:50
Lore is a waste of skillpoints, and concentration can be useful against taunt but there are better skills to get. What about spellcraft and tumble? Tumble gives you +1AC for every 5 ranks you get (pure ranks not modified by dex) and spellcraft gives you +1 to saves vs spells for everyfive ranks (but this time you consider the ranks+the int modifier). Get 20 ranks in each.
You might want to consider to drop starting strenght to 16, freeing up 6 stat points. You could start with STR 16, DEX 12 (+1 AC and ref saves) and INT 14 (+86 skillpoints, which means two more maxed skills and access to expertise/improved expertise to pump up AC when needed and also IKD). Shuffle your epic feats around and drop two epic toughness for 2 great STR. You'll have to delay you Ov.crit/Dev.crit feats slightly. The only drawback a dwarf might get is 43 skillpoints less and one less feat, but you free up 4 points from stat skills and you get all the dwarven boni (they are worth more than one feat IMO). Start with STR 18 CON 16 DEX 12 INT 12 WIS 8 CHA 6 and you get back the lost 43 skillpoints not to count +1 AC and +1 ref saves from dex. And you still have the option to lower starting STR.
Edit: also, instead of 2 epic toughness get 2 great CON, you not only get +40 HP but also +1 fort saves
Cheers, Kail _________________ Dilegua notte Tramontate stelle Tramontate stelle All'alba vinceṛ Vinceṛ Vinceṛ
Edited By Kail Pendragon on 12/25/05 16:21
Quote: also, instead of 2 epic toughness get 2 great CON, you not only get +40 HP but also +1 fort saves
I second that _________________ Surely, without war there would be no loss - hence, no mourning, no grief, no pain, no misery...
I like the idea of purist builds but you say fighter is the easiest to deal with? Most mage builds are easy to do for 40.. just add more great Ints/Chas in and you've got it Loving a decent pure 40 fighter though.. that's something that's actually interesting as well as fun ^_^
-DaMouse
Nifty idea, and it's a rather interesting coincidence you should post this now, as I'm working on a 'pure' FTR-type build as well.
I might question the heavy investment of feats in Longbow when your DEX is so low though.
Also, why Dev Crit in all those weapons? I can see possibly for the ranged and one of the melee weapons, but I don't think I'd go with both the GS and HF.
Overll, though, I like the idea. _________________ Wave upon wave of demented avengers marched cheerfully out of obscurity into the dream...
Actually I question myself the heavy investment in longbow, your AB with it simply sucks. It would make sense with a dexer, but in this case I see it as a waste of feats basically. I'd choose another weapon or change starting stats and get IKD, disarm and imp.disarm expertise and imp.expertise instead of the feats spent on longbow
Edited By Kail Pendragon on 12/25/05 21:39
Why don't you drop two fighter levels in epic and take 2 rogue levels? You lose 1 feat, but gain 8 AC, and the ability to pick locks, and other rogue skills. Also, why not add CoT? You get better saves, same bab, same feats... It just doesn't make sense to me why you would only get 40 fighter...
Why don't you drop two fighter levels in epic and take 2 rogue levels? You lose 1 feat, but gain 8 AC, and the ability to pick locks, and other rogue skills. Also, why not add CoT? You get better saves, same bab, same feats... It just doesn't make sense to me why you would only get 40 fighter...
Because:
Quote: Posted 12/25/05 14:56:42 (GMT) -- ShayneP That is, to make "pure" builds. ... I like the idea of having one class and sticking to it, and I wanted to see if I could make some playable characters within the bounds of the game.
Lore is a waste of skillpoints, and concentration can be useful against taunt but there are better skills to get. What about spellcraft and tumble? Tumble gives you +1AC for every 5 ranks you get (pure ranks not modified by dex) and spellcraft gives you +1 to saves vs spells for everyfive ranks (but this time you consider the ranks+the int modifier). Get 20 ranks in each.
Good thinking. I just have this thing about using cross-class skills especially when you have so few. But you are right, better half the ranks in a useful skill...
Quote: Posted 12/25/05 16:16:47 (GMT) -- Kail Pendragon You might want to consider to drop starting strenght to 16, freeing up 6 stat points. You could start with STR 16, DEX 12 (+1 AC and ref saves) and INT 14 (+86 skillpoints, which means two more maxed skills and access to expertise/improved expertise to pump up AC when needed and also IKD). Shuffle your epic feats around and drop two epic toughness for 2 great STR. You'll have to delay you Ov.crit/Dev.crit feats slightly. The only drawback a dwarf might get is 43 skillpoints less and one less feat, but you free up 4 points from stat skills and you get all the dwarven boni (they are worth more than one feat IMO). Start with STR 18 CON 16 DEX 12 INT 12 WIS 8 CHA 6 and you get back the lost 43 skillpoints not to count +1 AC and +1 ref saves from dex. And you still have the option to lower starting STR. Edit: also, instead of 2 epic toughness get 2 great CON, you not only get +40 HP but also +1 fort saves Cheers, Kail
I can see the value in dropping STR given the expense of going up to 17 and 18, especially when other stats can be useful. I will have a play with that.
Quote: Posted 12/25/05 21:07:24 (GMT) -- Cinnabar Din I might question the heavy investment of feats in Longbow when your DEX is so low though.
Also, why Dev Crit in all those weapons? I can see possibly for the ranged and one of the melee weapons, but I don't think I'd go with both the GS and HF.
Overll, though, I like the idea.
Thanks
I can't say anything about the longbow other than "it seemed like a good idea at the time". I stand corrected and a little red faced ("What were you thinking?").
And given the other suggestions above, I will probably drop the Crit feats for one or two of the weapons.
I like the idea of purist builds but you say fighter is the easiest to deal with? Most mage builds are easy to do for 40.. just add more great Ints/Chas in and you've got it
Loving a decent pure 40 fighter though.. that's something that's actually interesting as well as fun ^_^
-DaMouse
Just my take on it. I don't like having to figure out spell lists! Maybe Barbarian would be even easier (fewer feat choices!)
Thanks all for your advice, I will post a revision soon!
01: Fighter(1): Luck of Heros, Power Attack 02: Fighter(2): Cleave 03: Fighter(3): Weapon Focus: Heavy Flail 04: Fighter(4): STR+1, Weapon Specialization: Heavy Flail, (STR=17) 05: Fighter(5) 06: Fighter(6): Iron Will, Great Cleave 07: Fighter(7) 08: Fighter(8): STR+1, Knockdown, (STR=18) 09: Fighter(9): Lightning Reflexes 10: Fighter(10): Improved Knockdown 11: Fighter(11) 12: Fighter(12): STR+1, Weapon Focus: Greatsword, Improved Critical: Heavy Flail, (STR=19) 13: Fighter(13) 14: Fighter(14): Improved Critical: Greatsword 15: Fighter(15): Weapon Specialization: Greatsword 16: Fighter(16): STR+1, Expertise, (STR=20) 17: Fighter(17) 18: Fighter(18): Weapon Focus: Spear, Weapon Specialization: Spear 19: Fighter(19) 20: Fighter(20): STR+1, Improved Critical: Longbow, (STR=21) 21: Fighter(21): Great Strength I, (STR=22) 22: Fighter(22): Improved Expertise 23: Fighter(23) 24: Fighter(24): STR+1, Great Strength II, Overwhelming Critical: Heavy Flail, (STR=24) 25: Fighter(25) 26: Fighter(26): Epic Weapon Focus: Heavy Flail 27: Fighter(27): Epic Reflexes 28: Fighter(28): STR+1, Epic Weapon Specialization: Heavy Flail, (STR=25) 29: Fighter(29) 30: Fighter(30): Epic Will, Devastating Critical: Heavy Flail 31: Fighter(31) 32: Fighter(32): STR+1, Epic Weapon Focus: Greatsword, (STR=26) 33: Fighter(33): Great Constitution I, (CON=19) 34: Fighter(34): Epic Weapon Specialization: Greatsword 35: Fighter(35) 36: Fighter(36): STR+1, Great Constitution II, Epic Toughness I, (STR=27), (CON=20) 37: Fighter(37) 38: Fighter(38): Epic Weapon Focus: Spear 39: Fighter(39): Epic Toughness II 40: Fighter(40): STR+1, Epic Weapon Specialization: Spear, (STR=28)
Hitpoints: 640 Skillpoints: 172 (Max Discipline, Spellcraft, Tumble, Search [not great I know but I will be playing in a group minus a rogue and I can power attack stuff if I need to]) Saving Throws (Fortitude/Will/Reflex): 28/22/24 BAB: 30 AB (max, naked): 42 (melee), 31 (ranged) AC (naked/mundane armor/shield only): 15/26
If you're to drop the crit feats on one weapon, make it the heavy flail. Usually, one switches to a blundgeoning weapon to take out opponents resistant to slashing and/or piercing weapons, and it happens that most of the time, these particular opponents are undead and thus immune to critical hits.
Better go with the greatsword for the crit feats, and for the piercing weapon, grab the rapier. It will serve as your high crit range weapon and allow you to pick up a shield to raise your AC while still maintaining a good damage output thru the crits.
You may consider throwing axes to take advantage of your superior strength score as a ranged weapon.
For more flexibility, I would choose one two-handed weapon and one single-handed for use with a shield. I would keep the heavy flail as he two-hander, and skip the crit feats on it (use it against the crit-immune, with the 1.5x str bonus making up for the loss of crits). Pick something with a high crit range for the one-handed weapon (scim or rapier), and put the IC/OC/DC series on that one. Use it against thing that are vulnerable to crits, or against things where you need the extra AC from a shield.
For more flexibility, I would choose one two-handed weapon and one single-handed for use with a shield. I would keep the heavy flail as he two-hander, and skip the crit feats on it (use it against the crit-immune, with the 1.5x str bonus making up for the loss of crits). Pick something with a high crit range for the one-handed weapon (scim or rapier), and put the IC/OC/DC series on that one. Use it against thing that are vulnerable to crits, or against things where you need the extra AC from a shield.
TM
That's solid advice.
However, the OP states that he wanted a 2-handed Fighter:
Quote: ShayneP Aims: * Strength based fighter. 2-handed fighter.
_________________ Surely, without war there would be no loss - hence, no mourning, no grief, no pain, no misery...
He's still a 2-handed fighter - when he uses the heavy flail. He's also a 1-handed fighter when he uses the scim or rapier.
To me, the only real benefit to so many fighter levels is the flexibility from all those feats. He chose to use them for 3 weapons, one of each damage type, but all 2-handed. It makes more sense to me to include not only different damage types, but also a 1-hander for the shield option. Giving the 1-hander the crit feats makes up for the lower str bonus, and the 2-hander will use the 1.5x str multiplier to compensate for lack of crits on the crit-immune enemies. And I always like having a shield option against those guys that hit really hard - an extra 9 AC can make a big difference in your survivability, not to mention some of the nice resistances or ability buffs various shields have on them.
TM
Quote: an extra 9 AC can make a big difference in your survivability, not to mention some of the nice resistances or ability buffs various shields have on them.
How do you figure that? You should not count on magical items. Not everyone has access to such - at least not of high level.
Still, if the OP is willing to sacrifice his 2-handed theme I agree that using a shield is good advice. _________________ Surely, without war there would be no loss - hence, no mourning, no grief, no pain, no misery...
Quote: Posted 01/03/06 21:52:48 (GMT) -- FinneousPJ How do you figure that? You should not count on magical items. Not everyone has access to such - at least not of high level.
Still, if the OP is willing to sacrifice his 2-handed theme I agree that using a shield is good advice.
Well, except on extremely low-magic worlds, I would expect there to be some decent shields available by level 40. Tower Shield +6 gives +9 to AC (I would consider that to be medium-magic at level 40).
And I am not counting on them, merely allowing the character to take advantage of them if they exist. If not, he can use the flail. Once he gets Dev Crit, the Scim or Rapier may be a better choice just based on the crit range alone, even without a shield.
TM
A tower shield +6 looks like high magic to me... but I come from PnP after all
Well, it's a matter of taste. I generally consider low magic worlds to be limited to +3 or less, medium magic to +6 or less, and high magic to be +7 up (usually +10). Of course, I am also assuming that they are given in a level-dependent manner (i.e. 5th level characters should not have access to the most powerful items on the PW, but 40th level characters should, be they +3 or +20...).
Thanks
Loving a decent pure 40 fighter though.. that's something that's actually interesting as well as fun ^_^
Well, it's a matter of taste. I generally consider low magic worlds to be limited to +3 or less, medium magic to +6 or less, and high magic to be +7 up (usually +10). Of course, I am also assuming that they are given in a level-dependent manner (i.e. 5th level characters should not have access to the most powerful items on the PW, but 40th level characters should, be they +3 or +20...).