This sorcerer in life was so powerhungry and narcisitic that he attmpted to avoid death, and in doing so became a powerful lich. An adversay that is extrodinary hard to kill, but still packs a punch with his spells.
playable 1-40 PvA (hehe player versus anything does well in both PvP and PvM)
The Doom Lich Human Any non Good. (though I think CE fits RP best) Start End Str 13 13 Con 13 20 Dex 8 8 Int 12 12 Wis 8 9 Cha 18 24
AC: 15 naked 36 self buffed 40 with Haste HP: 506 746 with +12 con Disc: 43 (57 total) Spellcraft 40 Concentration 43 Hide: 5 (Req for blackguard) For the rest I went taunt (to add insult to injury ) but it's up to you.
Saves all 30+ with Charisma buffed up a bit.
you're black-guard lvls not only allow for high dicipline but also Dark Blessing giving your saves a boost into the thirties with buffed Charisma which is helpful for those pesky traps and will saves if you get caught not ready.
Disicpline makes not getting Knocked down a whole bunch easier, so now opponents can't sneak attack you can't Crit you and now they can't KD you! not to mention your huge life, and damage reduction spells and damage giving sheilds too!
Basically you have 700 health, decent ac, shields, have high Discipline. So you spam non DC Spells: IGMS Ice Storm, etc or spells that deal dmg even if they save like Horrid wilting, or sit there with Epic Warding premonition with your three shields up and 700 hp and let them kill themselves bwahahaha.
Pretty much any levels can be moved around, some of the feat selection will be different depending on what you take when, I'd probably have taken a ffirst BG level earlier on (mid 20s) just for playability but I figured i'd write it up in it's most simplistic terms and let people move it around at their own will.
Also you can dump BG and take a differnt Disc class at lvl 39 fighter? Bard? doens't matter, I just decided that BG not only fits the Evil part well but also with only 1 more level allows you too boost those saves up.
K then, just some feedback on this. Have to say I like the build a lot.
Personally I would be inclined to drop your starting CHA to 16 - giving you 6 more stat points at startup. You could then put 1 into STR to get your modifier to +2, the same with CON, freeing up a CON taken at a later level for another CHA. then either 4 into Dex or 2 into DEX and 2 into INT.
Going the second route would give you access to both Expertise and Imp Expertise, which would benefit your tactics greatly with a further 10 points to your ac. Don't forget that your Reflex save improves in line with your Dex modifier also.
With a maxed Concentration you may find that Improved Combat Casting is not all that necessary, particularly if hasted.
HPs.... I only manage 450 unbuffed on this level split.
Spell Penetration Feats.. do you really need three? as it stands you achieve a 34 +1d20 every time. I'd drop Epic Spell Pen for something else, which would get you over the toolset's base of 32 limit.
Take your Hide ranks during PM levels as these are class skills.
Skill Focus: Discipline - perhaps Still Spell instead then you benefit from Full Plate and Shield.
Maximize over Empower Spell? and no Extend Spell?
I would seriously considering Auto Still Spells as well and maybe dropping Hellball and both Great Cons - to achieve this.
2 x Great Con = 40 HP and 1 point to Fort save... is this truly worth it?
Blackguard is a wonderful class, but the requirements are high for such a feat starved build, ie Power Attack and Cleave. Bearing in mind this is not a meleer, they seem a waste.
Bard may suit a whole lot better due to the CHA related abilities, but you may finding taking 2 more Sorc Levels to be more beneficial, which would let you drop Greater Spell Penetration as well, whilst still maintaining 32 +1d20 each cast.
Finally Tumble - crossclassing gives you a further 4 points to AC, 8 if you took Bard (which gives Discipline also).
Armor Class with a 12 in Dex, 4 in Tumble, 6 PM, 20 Epic Mage Armor, 8 Full Plate and 3 Tower and 4 Haste gives you 57 AC, before any items, which is quite respectable in itself.
Anyway just some thoughts for you.
Edited By I...Samphus on 12/26/05 09:18
Quote: Personally I would be inclined to drop your starting CHA to 16 - giving you 6 more stat points at startup. You could then put 1 into STR to get your modifier to +2, the same with CON, freeing up a CON taken at a later level for another CHA. then either 4 into Dex or 2 into DEX and 2 into INT.
That's probably a good Idea to work with, though having more charisma earlier on makes leveling as a Sorcerer easier part of why I went 1-20 sorcerer, so pretty much early on you're just as effective as a Sorcerer, but yeah it would probably make the build better in the end that is.
Quote: Going the second route would give you access to both Expertise and Imp Expertise, which would benefit your tactics greatly with a further 10 points to your ac. Don't forget that your Reflex save improves in line with your Dex modifier also.
Well a lot of servers don't allow you cast in IMP expertise (I tend to agree it's a bit of an exploit you gain 10 AC and give nothing up) but also in retrospect you WANT to get hit which is why I went high hp and took Epic warding that way if you can't kill them with offensive spells let the shields do the work for you.
Quote: With a maxed Concentration you may find that Improved Combat Casting is not all that necessary, particularly if hasted.
I suppose though I couldn't really think of much else to take at that point. Maybe anotehr Epic spell greater Ruin perhaps?
Quote: HPs.... I only manage 450 unbuffed on this level split.
oh right I see what I did wrong I had Sorc down as a 1d6 hp in my Spread sheet so yeah the HP is off by 80 >.< So 450 sounds closer.
Quote: Spell Penetration Feats.. do you really need three? as it stands you achieve a 34 +1d20 every time. I'd drop Epic Spell Pen for something else, which would get you over the toolset's base of 32 limit.
Well monks get 11+level of monk so a lvl 40 monk has 51 SR any server with the Drow subrace also gets Lvl +11 Sr, a MOnk who takes Improved Spell -resistance can be untouchable by mages. So 28+1d20 vs 51 stands that you need to roll a 23... not possible even if you take Spell Pen and greater you still land a 30 + 1d20 which is 1 off a lvl 40 monk or Drow. Also some places the Spell resistacne given by the cleric can also increase with levels or spell foci which can attain a 52 at times. So if where you play has no foes with very high SR then yeah you coudl drop it but I didn't want to take the chance.
Quote: Take your Hide ranks during PM levels as these are class skills.
Good call
Quote: Skill Focus: Discipline - perhaps Still Spell instead then you benefit from Full Plate and Shield.
That's what I had down at first then I realised well if I want plate Armour skin etc then why in gods name am I taking all this Con? I mean If I went an AC route I could take Divine Shield Armour skin Auto Stil 1-3 CC tumble and get Spell DCs high. But this build you want them to hit you because then you take ful effect of immune to crits/sneaks Epic warding, Premonition, Acid Sheath Death Shield and elemental shield which they end up killign themselves with.
Quote: Maximize over Empower Spell? and no Extend Spell?
Although theoretically Empower spell can do more damage then Maximise on average maximise spell is going to do more you've got a better chance. Also Maximised Enduracne is goign to get you +5 every time Empower is too "risky" as it where. You could dump Skill-focus Disc and take Extend spell probably a good Idea.
Quote: 2 x Great Con = 40 HP and 1 point to Fort save... is this truly worth it?
Well the other Epic spells aren't brilliant I'm not going for AC two great toughnesses is +40 hp and not +1 fort, the concept i to be able to take a hit adn deal damage with that hit (shields) and still be abel to spell spam.
I originally wanted to see if I coudl get EDR III for -/9 damage reduc. I could probably take 16 cha get 21 con earlier dump Hellball and Improved Combat casting and get EDR III, I shall have to try.
Quote: Blackguard is a wonderful class, but the requirements are high for such a feat starved build, ie Power Attack and Cleave. Bearing in mind this is not a meleer, they seem a waste.
Well yes you coudl go Paladin get the same result but reallt PM Sorc Paladin??? BG really fits the RP of it all and yes POwer attack adn Ceave are a bit of a pain but also only Paladin and BG give bonuses of that level to saves (other than Harper wth Tymora's Smile and CoT neither of which make sense with this build) Fighter coudl be an option or Monk for Improved Evasion and Tumble but really neither truly make sense in an RP fasion. And to use ESF: Disc and have a high Discipline you need a class with that. And I did want to have some RP along with the build too.
Quote: Bard may suit a whole lot better due to the CHA related abilities, but you may finding taking 2 more Sorc Levels to be more beneficial, which would let you drop Greater Spell Penetration as well, whilst still maintaining 32 +1d20 each cast.
Bard yes could work... though how is a Sorcerer/PM a bard??? Doesn't make much RP sense If I really wanted to Powerbuild this one I'd either go Monk or Bard.
Quote: Finally Tumble - crossclassing gives you a further 4 points to AC, 8 if you took Bard (which gives Discipline also).
Want to get hit, want to invoke attacks of opportunity
Putting EDR III into the build woudl probably make it stronger I'll see what can be done. _________________ ~I am the wisest man on earth because I know one thing, and that is I know nothing.~ -Cairne
Str 13 13 Con 15 22 Dex 8 8 Int 12 12 Wis 8 8 Cha 17 22
1 Sorc Power Attack, Cleave 2 Sorc 3 Sorc Toughness 4 Sorc Cha 5 Sorc 6 Sorc Spell Penetration 7 Sorc 8 Sorc Cha 9 Sorc Greater Spell Penetration (Empower Spell) 10 Sorc 11 Sorc 12 Sorc Extend Spell Con 13 Sorc 14 Sorc 15 Sorc Maximise Spell 16 Sorc Con 17 Sorc 18 Sorc Skill Focus: Discipline 19 Sorc 20 Sorc Con 21 PM Epic Spell Penetration (Whatever you like?) 22 PM 23 PM 24 PM Great Constitution 2 Con 25 PM 26 PM 27 PM Great Constitution 1 28 PM Cha 29 PM 30 PM EDR I 5 hide here 31 Sorc 32 Sorc Cha 33 Sorc Epic Spell: Epic Warding, EDR II 34 Sorc 35 Sorc 36 Sorc EDR III Epic Spell: Epic mage armour Cha 37 Sorc 38 Sorc 39 BG Epic Skill Focus: Discipline 40 BG Con
This was the best way I coudl get in EDR III, you loose 2 Charisma, Improved Combat Casting and Hellball in turn gain more HP and EDR III. I put In parenthesis what you might take if you didn't need the Spell Pen. ALso managed to get Extend Spell. I personally think this build is better has a higher HP count more Damage reduction and can use Extended shields and just stand therre while they kill themselves. _________________ ~I am the wisest man on earth because I know one thing, and that is I know nothing.~ -Cairne
Much better now, the changes have definitely improved the build. Hellball is no big deal anyhow, so I wouldn't even consider it a loss. Maybe BG fits the build conceptually but 2 lvls at the very end of the build smells of cheese in the whole neighbourhood and has few if none RP reasons behind it, let's be true
Cheers, Kail _________________ Dilegua notte Tramontate stelle Tramontate stelle All'alba vinceṛ Vinceṛ Vinceṛ
Well I leveld it how it was Just for writings purposes, mainly cause I didn't want to think of it
In reality I'd take BlackGuard at lvl 22 ish then later at 39 I mean really you can move any level anywhere pretty simply as long as you keep certain levels with certain feats liek you can't take EPic spells on BG or PM but you can take it earlier or later if you like. Also you can't get EDR till like 30 or something so not that bad.
I put 1-20 Sorc mainly cause it's easier to level a 20 sorc then a 15 sorc 4 PM 1 BG or something.
But yeah move the levels wherever you like really.
Erm I took Hellball cause I couldn't think of anything else _________________ ~I am the wisest man on earth because I know one thing, and that is I know nothing.~ -Cairne
Oh prolly should remember this
1-40 PvA (hehe player versus anything does well in both PvP and PvM)
Hide: 5 Disc: 43 Spellcraft: 40 Rest: wherever you like think there's 35ish left
Saves all 30+ with Charisma buffed up a bit.
Quote: Posted 12/26/05 20:20:25 (GMT) -- Kail Pendragon Maybe BG fits the build conceptually but 2 lvls at the very end of the build smells of cheese in the whole neighbourhood and has few if none RP reasons behind it, let's be true
Cheers, Kail
CHEESE! Lets see if we can think up a reason for the switch at the end of this chars life... OH I got it! After spending his ENTIRE life seeking Powerful magic from within, he decides to forsake it all in search of a truly pathetic melee presence! They say that one adds blackguard to a build to make it more powerful.. Im thinkin that Kail's question is, for RP reasons, which is something you alude to in your intro, It makes no sense to have blackguard in the build in a RP sense! Hes a caster, and bg has nothin to do with casters! Now, if you had started with bg (or pal, which is a pal/sorc/pm thing) then it is more realisitic.. or at least any bg lvls greater than 2!
I love the powerfulness of this build though! So i am torn!
Cheers on the build
Peace
Eh-eh, avado got it right. Mind me, I like the build and I'm not new to cheese. I'm not complaining about that.
Quote: Well yes you coudl go Paladin get the same result but reallt PM Sorc Paladin??? BG really fits the RP of it all and yes POwer attack adn Ceave are a bit of a pain but also only Paladin and BG give bonuses of that level to saves (other than Harper wth Tymora's Smile and CoT neither of which make sense with this build) Fighter coudl be an option or Monk for Improved Evasion and Tumble but really neither truly make sense in an RP fasion. And to use ESF: Disc and have a high Discipline you need a class with that. And I did want to have some RP along with the build too.
In PnP you would never be allowed those 2 blackguard lvls, they don't make sense, RP wise. Even more if taken separate. No DM would let you do that. You'd have to make an heavier investment in the class. If you started off as a blackguard, or even as a paladin (think of it as a fallen paladin...but in PnP you'd lose your powers) well, it could be viable. You know, getting entraced in the dark arts and so on. And by the way, I recently saw an impressive Pal/Sorc/PM here by Grim.
It was just a remark about the RP issue (since you brought it up), as far as the build goes, it's a good one!
Cheers and happy celebrations tonight! Kail _________________ Dilegua notte Tramontate stelle Tramontate stelle All'alba vinceṛ Vinceṛ Vinceṛ
) but it's up to you.
