I was toying around with a high AB sneaker with ED/SCV. The Stealthy Blade of Doom is the result.
A mean halfling with AB 48, naked AC 32 (34 with medium shield), ED, SCV, good critical range (30%), maxed UMD , 10d6 sneak attack, able to set deadly traps. Think of sneaking among your enemy ranks, maybe already covered in darkness/ultravision and unleash your IWWA at 48 AB, 15-20 crit range, x3 crit and 10d6 sneaks
The drawbacks are low HP (a problem before you get really difficult to hit), poor saves (get some mind immunity item), low damage against sneak/crit immunes (you wanna get some STR gear) and feat starvation, at least preepic. I would have loved to get cripplig strike (one could drop one SC for it), called shot and the KD feats. I don't know, maybe drop IC and blind fight for KD/IKD or drop IWWA for KD at least. Without KD you are left with flanking, stealth and darkness/ultravision (my favourite) to generate sneaks. Before you ask, yes, one could go elf... but why? You'd lose 1 point from AB, AC, saves just to get some size back, basically. IMO it's not worth it.
Off with the build:
Stealthy Blade of Doom Rogue(19), Weapon Master(19), Fighter(2) Halfling, any alignment PvM, playable 1-40, untested PvP
Feedback and constructive criticism is, as usual, greatly appreciated.
Cheers, Kail
Fixed the shield issue - Kail Pendragon _________________ My enemies rise and look to the skies They pray I will never appear Their life has no meaning Awake they are dreaming They live in a castle of fear
Edited By Kail Pendragon on 02/13/07 09:40
if 2 rogue levels are given up, this should allow WS/EWS (if taken on a general feat level) with fighter, which, as you are dex based, will be pretty important. the damage from this build is pitiful, without WS/EWS and being dex based, undead will rip you into pieces (albeit concealment helps).
qualms aside. this is a pretty fine build. nice AB, nice AC etc. this would work well in most environments. another good 'un! _________________ Dwarves hate to be mistaken for Gnomes. Even Gnomes hate to be mistaken as Gnomes. They prefer people to think of them as small, effeminate Dwarves.
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the things that this build could really use well would be IKD, as you mentioned, but also ITWF. with a 48 AB, you can afford to. but being so tight on feats makes it tough.
if you are worried about getting hit in lower levels just make sure to get expertise ASAP. in epic, fighting with expertise on all the time is feasible, even while dual wielding, and still maintaining a 42 AB.
just a note really. nothing much bad you can say about a sneak attacking dexer with SCV and ED. well done. you achieved your goal, but i think that you sacrificed a lot to get there (feats in this case). not my cup of tea, but others no doubt will find this quite strong and playable.
-c _________________ “If you bring a Ranger with you, it is well to pay attention to him...”
if 2 rogue levels are given up, this should allow WS/EWS (if taken on a general feat level) with fighter, which, as you are dex based, will be pretty important. the damage from this build is pitiful, without WS/EWS and being dex based, undead will rip you into pieces (albeit concealment helps).
qualms aside. this is a pretty fine build. nice AB, nice AC etc. this would work well in most environments. another good 'un!
Yeah, I'm aware of the issue of low damage output against sneak immunes and yes WS/EWS would benefit the build. Basically you'd lose either SCV (if lowering rogue lvls) either 1AB if dropping WM... I'm more for the second option actually. As for dealing in general with sneak immunes you always have UMD to help you, if ED and SCV are not enough.
the things that this build could really use well would be IKD, as you mentioned, but also ITWF. with a 48 AB, you can afford to. but being so tight on feats makes it tough.
if you are worried about getting hit in lower levels just make sure to get expertise ASAP. in epic, fighting with expertise on all the time is feasible, even while dual wielding, and still maintaining a 42 AB.
just a note really. nothing much bad you can say about a sneak attacking dexer with SCV and ED. well done. you achieved your goal, but i think that you sacrificed a lot to get there (feats in this case). not my cup of tea, but others no doubt will find this quite strong and playable.
-c
I agree with you, dual wield would be good to get, but it requires 3 feats. Let's see: give up IC, blind fight and IWWA and grab ambidexterity, TWF, ITWF. No hope for KD/IKD in that case. So it's either dual wield or KD. I hate it when you have to make such choices. Not to say that IC and blind fight at least, if not IWWA are not bad feats at all... _________________ Dilegua notte Tramontate stelle Tramontate stelle All'alba vinceṛ Vinceṛ Vinceṛ
if 2 rogue levels are given up, this should allow WS/EWS (if taken on a general feat level) with fighter, which, as you are dex based, will be pretty important. the damage from this build is pitiful, without WS/EWS and being dex based, undead will rip you into pieces (albeit concealment helps).
qualms aside. this is a pretty fine build. nice AB, nice AC etc. this would work well in most environments. another good 'un!
Yeah, I'm aware of the issue of low damage output against sneak immunes and yes WS/EWS would benefit the build. Basically you'd lose either SCV (if lowering rogue lvls) either 1AB if dropping WM... I'm more for the second option actually. As for dealing in general with sneak immunes you always have UMD to help you, if ED and SCV are not enough.
this is very true, ED and SV5 will help with the undead, but there is very little damage done with undead, and considoring the fact that there are more undead than there are dead and alive combined in NWN, this could be a problem. i really like this though, and if weapons with elemental damage are available, this would work well. _________________ Dwarves hate to be mistaken for Gnomes. Even Gnomes hate to be mistaken as Gnomes. They prefer people to think of them as small, effeminate Dwarves.
A mean halfling with AB 48, naked AC 32 (35 with tower shield) , ED, SCV, good critical range (30%), maxed UMD , 10d6 sneak attack, able to set deadly traps. Think of sneaking among your enemy ranks, maybe already covered in darkness/ultravision and unleash your IWWA at 48 AB, 15-20 crit range, x3 crit and 10d6 sneaks
Correct me if I'm wrong but I always thought it was impossible for a halfling to use a tower shield. the particular halfling I play can't use a tower even with UMD and has the shield feat (mixed with fighter). Is there some way to acctually get the shield eqiuped and used even though it's bigger than the character himself?
EDIT: Added bolding.
Edited By Drakonias on 12/28/05 14:20
Halflings can't use Tower Shields for sure. Good point, friend _________________ Surely, without war there would be no loss - hence, no mourning, no grief, no pain, no misery...
Quote: Think of sneaking among your enemy ranks, maybe already covered in darkness/ultravision and unleash your IWWA at 48 AB, 15-20 crit range, x3 crit and 10d6 sneaks
As I found out when truly testing my tiny reaper, there is NO WAY under any circumstances that you can generate sneak attacks while using WWA. It's silly, it's sad, but worse, it's so very true.
As for damaging undeads, it's not that big a deal. Use UMD to flame your weapon, cast from scrolls, wands or whatever. Or use your traps. Stealth works fine vs undeads to, allowing time to trap.
A rogue with 48 AB? Say what you want folks, THAT rocks! I would like to see the one that won't be hit when flat-footed. The fighter4 path is kinda nice, but not necessary. You are so hard to kill, you can just slowly but surely carve up the undeads and constructs. Carry some STR gear, you can switch to it when needed, your AB will be more than adequate anyway.
A mean halfling with AB 48, naked AC 32 (35 with tower shield) , ED, SCV, good critical range (30%), maxed UMD , 10d6 sneak attack, able to set deadly traps. Think of sneaking among your enemy ranks, maybe already covered in darkness/ultravision and unleash your IWWA at 48 AB, 15-20 crit range, x3 crit and 10d6 sneaks
Correct me if I'm wrong but I always thought it was impossible for a halfling to use a tower shield. the particular halfling I play can't use a tower even with UMD and has the shield feat (mixed with fighter). Is there some way to acctually get the shield eqiuped and used even though it's bigger than the character himself?
EDIT: Added bolding.
My bad, sorry, halflings cannot use tower shields. Size sometimes matters
As I found out when truly testing my tiny reaper, there is NO WAY under any circumstances that you can generate sneak attacks while using WWA. It's silly, it's sad, but worse, it's so very true.
As for damaging undeads, it's not that big a deal. Use UMD to flame your weapon, cast from scrolls, wands or whatever. Or use your traps. Stealth works fine vs undeads to, allowing time to trap.
A rogue with 48 AB? Say what you want folks, THAT rocks! I would like to see the one that won't be hit when flat-footed. The fighter4 path is kinda nice, but not necessary. You are so hard to kill, you can just slowly but surely carve up the undeads and constructs. Carry some STR gear, you can switch to it when needed, your AB will be more than adequate anyway.
Truly a blade of Doom.
Thanks Grim.
Exactly my point, UMD is the solution for many problems, including low dmg output. Otherwise get some elemental dmg weapon. And as you say undead are as easy to stealth upon as the living if not more, and this build is difficult to hit so it's just a matter of time before you carve 'em up real good even just with base dmg. If you wanna go the FTR 4 way this is my suggestion:
You lose -1 AB (from 19th WM lvl) and -2 AC (armor skin)
If you want to go the dual wield route just take Ambidexterity, TWF and ITWF instead of IC, blind fighting and IWWA in the original build.
BTW the news about IWWA are really sad ...whatever! Any suggestions about what to take instead of it? _________________ Dilegua notte Tramontate stelle Tramontate stelle All'alba vinceṛ Vinceṛ Vinceṛ
This build is very successful at what it wants to do - create a stealthy character who's extremely hard to hit and has a very high AB. This is definitely not a character you want flanking you unless you're immune to sneak attacks and critical hits.
I'm a little disappointed not to see some high Search and Open Locks skills on the character though. With those, he'd be a superb party rogue. Maybe dump spellcraft for that? I know his saves can use the help, but nearly maxing it cross-class costs quite a lot of skill points. _________________ Experience is the mother of good judgement; bad judgement is the father of experience.
Sure, that's sound advice. I always think of skill selection as susceptible to be changed to better fit one's needs. Drop spellcraft and some other points here and there and you'll be able to get high search and open locks.
And, yes, you don't want this guy to flank you unless you are crit immune. He's gonna hit you and he's gonna hit you hard while you'll have a hard time landing one blow on him. Maybe drop one SC and get crippling strike to get more offensive. Eeeevil
Cheers, Kail _________________ Dilegua notte Tramontate stelle Tramontate stelle All'alba vinceṛ Vinceṛ Vinceṛ
Oh and let me add... congratulations on a build that certainly deserves the "Halfling of Dooooom!" label _________________ Experience is the mother of good judgement; bad judgement is the father of experience.
Quote: Posted 12/27/05 15:48:06 (GMT) -- Kail Pendragon If you wanna go the FTR 4 way this is my suggestion:
% Change for KD/IKD if you want You lose -1 AB (from 19th WM lvl) and -2 AC (armor skin)
One question: I can't quite see where WSpec has been taken to allow for EWS. But even so, in my opinion a EWS sneaker >> Armor Skin. And take Epic skill Foc instead of IWWA possibly.
gj Kail, I really like it. _________________ Some Forum Members believe respect is a right and should be freely given. Myself: I work on a point-buy system, and today my friend you're all out of credit...
Quote: Posted 12/29/05 04:27:21 (GMT) -- pocketbeetle One question: I can't quite see where WSpec has been taken to allow for EWS. But even so, in my opinion a EWS sneaker >> Armor Skin. And take Epic skill Foc instead of IWWA possibly.
gj Kail, I really like it.
On 30th lvl I took FTR 4 and grabbed both WS/EWS at the same time
...whatever!