Here's a dragon build which does not rely on his/her dragon shape, having at his/her disposal clerical and druidical powers. And once you are able to turn into a dragon... 25 cleric lvls to counter dispelling and toolset SR (together with SP feats of course), 14 druid lvls as the minimum to get dragon shape and 1 monk lvl for cheese, of course Actually the build started off as a CLC 26/ DR 14 but I couldn't resist the benefits that 1 single monk lvl would bring. Dragon shape at 33rd lvl already, you have to wait till 39th to get all the monk's boni though (that's to max out discipline and tumble, move it down if you feel you need the monk's boni earlier). Domains are what you feel suits you best, I chose trickery for II and travel for haste. Melee presence till you get dragon shape is given by buffs, expertise for protection, zen archery to get a decent AB early on, at least with ranged attacks. Pity there's no Intuitive Attack feat (PrC feat, the same of Zen Archery but works with simple melee weapons...if you play on a PrC module take Int.Att. instead of Zen Archery). I guess that's all, I'll let you judge the build:
Order of Jormundgandr Cleric(25), Druid(14), Monk(1) Human, Lawful Neutral PvM playable 1-40, untested PvP
Feedback and constructive criticism is gladly appreciated.
Cheers, Kail _________________ Wait for me Dragon, we'll meet in the sky By fire and magic, I'm sworn Hell is calling, we cannot be denied Fly to the blackness of the Storm
We must die to be reborn!
Edited By Kail Pendragon on 05/09/09 22:17
i like it, i really do! there's a big gap for playable dragon shapes, and this one is a great build.
Even if the monk smells like cheese... but it's no biggy.
you would want to get high quality armor as this will go into dragon shape also, which will perhaps not help too much, with the already present dragon ownage. but this is a minor thing.
another good 'un. _________________ Dwarves hate to be mistaken for Gnomes. Even Gnomes hate to be mistaken as Gnomes. They prefer people to think of them as small, effeminate Dwarves.
www.Zogonia.com
Could you be so kind as to post some buffed/unbuffed stats in Dragon Form? This fellow looks interesting.
As a side note your Implosion DC is now at 10 +3 +9 +(32 -10)/2 = 33.
35 with Spell Focus 37 with Greater Spell Focus 39 with Epic Spell Focus
+6 with maxed Wisdom. Might be worth getting some Spell Foci. _________________ Surely, without war there would be no loss - hence, no mourning, no grief, no pain, no misery...
Could you be so kind as to post some buffed/unbuffed stats in Dragon Form? This fellow looks interesting.
As a side note your Implosion DC is now at 10 +3 +9 +(32 -10)/2 = 33.
35 with Spell Focus 37 with Greater Spell Focus 39 with Epic Spell Focus
+6 with maxed Wisdom. Might be worth getting some Spell Foci.
Regarding the side note, yeah I know. I recently built an "imploder" eh-eh. If you can do without the SP feats then swap them for SF feats. Implode goes through SR though, so I'm not sure it's worth it. Otherwise you have to give up 2 feats preepic and one epic to get all the SF feats, what would you choose?
Regarding the stats in dragon form here we go:
STR 48 DEX 36 CON 32 HP: 860 (360+10*40+100) AC (naked): 64 AB: 51 DR 40/+6 Immune to mind affecting effects, paralysis and sneak attacks
Buffed: STR 60 (lucky emp. BS) DEX 40 CON 44 (lucky emp. Endurance) WIS 44 (Owl's Insight and lucky emp.Owl's Wisdom) HP: 1100 AC: 80 at least ...too many buffs to count them all:D * AB: 72 DR 40/+6 and you still have to cast stoneskin and various protection from the elements Immunity as above, plus buffs
*you still can activate IE if that were not enough
In conclusion you become a mean killing machine. Stats can be slightly inaccurate, I'm too tired to think straight, but approximately they are right. Please note that even as a human you are quite something when all buffed up with clerical and druidical buffs.
PS: it took me even more to write you this answer, I hope it helps Finn!
Cheers, Kail _________________ Dilegua notte Tramontate stelle Tramontate stelle All'alba vinceṛ Vinceṛ Vinceṛ
PS: it took me even more to write you this answer, I hope it helps Finn!
Cheers, Kail
Well, I don't know about helping (there's no "problem " here whatsoever ) but I like numbers
...and those numbers I love. 'Tis a beast, I must admit. Appreciate you doing that for me _________________ Surely, without war there would be no loss - hence, no mourning, no grief, no pain, no misery...
i like it, i really do! there's a big gap for playable dragon shapes, and this one is a great build.
Even if the monk smells like cheese... but it's no biggy.
you would want to get high quality armor as this will go into dragon shape also, which will perhaps not help too much, with the already present dragon ownage. but this is a minor thing.
another good 'un.
Thanks mate
Monk doesn't smell like cheese, monk is pure cheese my friend But honestly, could you resist the possibility of getting 7 attacks per round (w/ divine power and FoB) at monk's progression, +11 AC from WIS, +4 AC from maxed tumble, maxed out discipline, access to stealth skills, not to say cleave, evasion and 1/day a good DC stun.fist for just one lvl monk? It looks like an awfully good deal to me in exchange of one bonus cleric feat...too tempting for my frail willpower and my low will save
Good armor (with nice properties, that is) is something you wanna get cause, as you said, armor properties merge in dragon shape. All buffed up you are really scary, believe me.
Thanks again for the feedback guys
Cheers and a happy new year to all, Kail _________________ Dilegua notte Tramontate stelle Tramontate stelle All'alba vinceṛ Vinceṛ Vinceṛ
PS: it took me even more to write you this answer, I hope it helps Finn!
Cheers, Kail
Well, I don't know about helping (there's no "problem " here whatsoever ) but I like numbers
...and those numbers I love. 'Tis a beast, I must admit. Appreciate you doing that for me
'twas a pleasure
I think that cleric brings really something to a dragon build, you can buff up like there's no tomorrow something that is already scary to start with. And it gives an overall playability to the build. I mean, you have many weapons to chose from, one drawback is that you are tight on feats (see the SF/SP issue). But I'd say one can live with that when you are a big nasty dragon, ain't it?
Cheers, Kail _________________ Dilegua notte Tramontate stelle Tramontate stelle All'alba vinceṛ Vinceṛ Vinceṛ
What are the mighty saves of this dragon? Or am I blind, because I didn't see em? :/
Duh, I forgot saves!
Fully buffed: Fort: 48 Ref: 38 (evasion) Will 48 (+6 vs fear)
or something close to it. Impressive, ain't it?
I assume 72 AB is correct, no reason to doubt that. Here's your attacks with flurry and Haste(since you mentioned the word impressive), if you can access perma-haste in armor, shield or helm.
70/67/64/61/58/70/70/72.
That should be enough to lay waste most opponenets before your short term buffs wear off. Actually more than enough to lay waste to your opponent, his neighbour AND his nasty grandmother!
Holy crap. Even Jormundgandr would be proud of you! (The Midgard-serpent...)
A masterpiece, Kail, through and through! I bow for this one.
*EDIT* With Flurry, haste AND divine power it's supposed to say.....
I assume 72 AB is correct, no reason to doubt that. Here's your attacks with flurry and Haste(since you mentioned the word impressive), if you can access perma-haste in armor, shield or helm.
70/67/64/61/58/70/70/72.
That should be enough to lay waste most opponenets before your short term buffs wear off. Actually more than enough to lay waste to your opponent, his neighbour AND his nasty grandmother!
Holy crap. Even Jormundgandr would be proud of you! (The Midgard-serpent...)
A masterpiece, Kail, through and through! I bow for this one.
*EDIT* With Flurry, haste AND divine power it's supposed to say.....
Almost accurate. Unfortunately when shifted your extra hasted attack goes at the end of your attack schedule so it would be:
70/67/64/61/58/55/70/72
Still, an awesome build. Does divine favor affect your unarmed attacks? I have also heard rumors that if you take great str feats in a dragon build without shifter levels, they add to your dragons base str but I have not tested this yet. _________________ http://www.dormaeglinunderdark.com/
Edited By Talamier on 12/31/05 07:59
Quote: Posted 12/31/05 07:46:38 (GMT) -- Talamier
Almost accurate. Unfortunately when shifted your extra hasted attack goes at the end of your attack schedule so it would be:
70/67/64/61/58/55/70/72
Still, an awesome build. Does divine favor affect your unarmed attacks? I have also heard rumors that if you take great str feats in a dragon build without shifter levels, they add to your dragons base str but I have not tested this yet.
Mine is correct. His BAB is 25, and that gives him only 5 attacks. DP gives him fighter BAB which qualifies for an extra attack. That extra attack comes out last in the sequence, but before the flurry attack and before the Haste attack. Also, that extra attack comes out at best BAB, that means 70 in the flurry as I type it, not 55 like you type. That is the beauty of DP. I have my Haste attack last in my attack shedule. And it comes last in all attack schedules, not just unarmed.
I see i have some testing to do, about Great STR feats, and also that WF, EWF thing which I was confident worked. Do not trust the sheet. Do not trust the sheet.
Fully buffed: Fort: 48 Ref: 38 (evasion) Will 48 (+6 vs fear)
or something close to it. Impressive, ain't it?
And that without CoT! Nice job.
Thanks, cleric buffs are impressive as you all know. Couple that with a dragon and this is the result. As a side note, however, CoT boni to saves counts towards the +20 cap... but true you're still far from hitting the cap even with all buffs on.
About the attack progression: oh the beauty of Divine Power!!! It's the reason to keep your BAB at 25 in a cleric build even when you could have it higher.
I have not tested the Gr.STR issue but I did test the WF/EWF. Your sheet says they apply even when shifted, but it's wrong. In the combat log you hit for 3 less AB. And that's the same for elemental forms (tested with a pure druid). I haven't tested shifter's forms though. So, yes, do not trust the sheet.
Quote: Holy crap. Even Jormundgandr would be proud of you! (The Midgard-serpent...)
I'm honored by the remark. Maybe I should have called this build Order of Jormundgandr... that's a really cool idea
Griphook, could you do that for me? Holy priestesses are getting ready to bathe you in Don Perignon
Cheers and happy celebrations for tonight! Kail
***** ***** ***** ***** *****
Cheers and happy celebrations for tonight! Yup ..same to everyone..."Enjoy" griphook _________________ Dilegua notte Tramontate stelle Tramontate stelle All'alba vinceṛ Vinceṛ Vinceṛ
Almost accurate. Unfortunately when shifted your extra hasted attack goes at the end of your attack schedule so it would be:
70/67/64/61/58/55/70/72
Still, an awesome build. Does divine favor affect your unarmed attacks? I have also heard rumors that if you take great str feats in a dragon build without shifter levels, they add to your dragons base str but I have not tested this yet.
Mine is correct. His BAB is 25, and that gives him only 5 attacks. DP gives him fighter BAB which qualifies for an extra attack. That extra attack comes out last in the sequence, but before the flurry attack and before the Haste attack. Also, that extra attack comes out at best BAB, that means 70 in the flurry as I type it, not 55 like you type. That is the beauty of DP. I have my Haste attack last in my attack shedule. And it comes last in all attack schedules, not just unarmed.
I see i have some testing to do, about Great STR feats, and also that WF, EWF thing which I was confident worked. Do not trust the sheet. Do not trust the sheet.
My mistake. I meant that the hasted attack will come in at an AB of 55 so that 72 at the end should be a 55. It's a bug when shifted that you don't get the extra hasted attack at full AB.
Edited By Talamier on 12/31/05 18:43
I did some tests today and let me say that to test dragon form is tricky.
About AB
Premise A.Dragon claws are +6 weapons, giving +6 AB counting toward the +20 cap
B.Dragon is huge size and has -2 AB due to that
Results 1. Both of these AB modifiers do not show on your sheet.
2. Therefore the sheet is off by 4 points and shows -4 AB compared to reality
3. Claws +6 also means you can buff yourself up to a maximum of +14 AB (not considering +6 from STR buffs)
4. All buffs considered and taking into account the sheet is off 4 points, your maximum buffed AB is +24 compared to what's written on your sheet before you buff up
5. WF/EWF unarmed do not work, even though the sheet says so
About AC
I believe that beig a dragon a huge creature it suffers from -2 AC, but I'm not sure. If so the sheet does not show it, anyhow (not surprisingly)
1. Magic Vestment and Shield of Faith do not stack.
2. Haste bonus to AC does not show on you sheet (even if you cast only haste, so it's not a problem of no-stacking I guess), I'm not sure whether it is applied anyhow.
3. Barkskin stacks normally with other buffs (I guess that's because it applies to natural AC)
4. WIS and DEX buffs normally affect AC
5. PfA, MCaA and AaA do not show on your sheet (nor they do in human form) so I'm not sure whether they stack or not
6. As a human you can get +27 AC with buffs (spells vs alignment apart), as a dragon apparently that becomes +18 AC only
Therefore the final stats for the dragon form are:
UNBUFFED DRAGON
STR 48 DEX 36 CON 32 HP: 860 AC (naked): 64 AB: 49 (51 -2 due to size), shows 45 on the sheet DR 40/+6 Immune to mind affecting effects, paralysis and sneak attacks Fort: 35 Ref: 29 (evasion) Will: 35
BUFFED DRAGON
STR 60 DEX 40 CON 44 (lucky emp. Endurance) WIS 44 HP: 1100 AC (naked): 82 (90 vs good/evil???) AB: 69 (71 -2 due to size), shows 66 on the sheet DR 40/+6 and you still have to cast stoneskin and various protection from the elements Immunity as above, plus buffs Fort: 44 (48 vs Good/Evil) Ref: 34 (38 vs Good/Evil)(evasion) Will: 44 (48 vs Good/Evil)(+6 vs fear)
Please note I have not taken into consideration the possible -2 AC due to the dragon's size.
If someone has better insight than me in the subject, please let me know (f.e. what stacks and what does not stack when shifting also relative to armor properties).
Cheers, Kail _________________ Dilegua notte Tramontate stelle Tramontate stelle All'alba vinceṛ Vinceṛ Vinceṛ
Edited By Kail Pendragon on 01/02/06 21:52
Interesting studies. Good job _________________ Surely, without war there would be no loss - hence, no mourning, no grief, no pain, no misery...
Yeah, thanks. It was a looong test and still it was not final since some points remain unclear.
I'm anyhow satisfied with final dragon stats, even though AB could be better. I forgot totally about the -2 AB due to size when posting the dragon stats. It's a real pity WF/EWF do not work, you could cap at 72 where now you cap at 69. AC is slightly better than I thought and once you merge a good set of armor you become practically untouchable...not that now you are easy to hit
I hope someone can give a look inside the scripts and clear all the obscure points.
Sure the character sheet is f... messed up eh-eh
Cheers, Kail _________________ Dilegua notte Tramontate stelle Tramontate stelle All'alba vinceṛ Vinceṛ Vinceṛ
Thanks Kail. I was sure EWF worked, you know. My sheet with the feats showed actually 1 lower than what the actual combat rolls were, so I thought EP didn't show on the sheet. But with the +6 claws and the size thing I understand. About AC. When you shift forms, many of your AC bonuses become deflection, so no stacking. Why STR modifiers from both shield and armor doesn't stack, who knows. Barkskin definitly work. As for defensive stance: You get the save bonuses and ability modifiers, but not the AC at least not on the sheet, but enemies seem to hit me much less frequently when my Dragon is in def stance. So who knows. I will see if I can check what AC you get in the combat debugger.
Thanks Kail. I was sure EWF worked, you know. My sheet with the feats showed actually 1 lower than what the actual combat rolls were, so I thought EP didn't show on the sheet. But with the +6 claws and the size thing I understand. About AC. When you shift forms, many of your AC bonuses become deflection, so no stacking. Why STR modifiers from both shield and armor doesn't stack, who knows. Barkskin definitly work. As for defensive stance: You get the save bonuses and ability modifiers, but not the AC at least not on the sheet, but enemies seem to hit me much less frequently when my Dragon is in def stance. So who knows. I will see if I can check what AC you get in the combat debugger.
You're welcome Grim. Please let me know the results of the tests with defensive stance.
I further tested with combat debugging and found out the following:
1. Dragons are -2 AC due to size. This is not shown on the sheet. Your real AC is therefore AC 62 unbuffed, and AC 80 fully buffed.
2. Dragons have a +20 dodge AC which counts towards the cap. Hence, haste bonus to AC is lost when shifted (but not the extra attack and speed). Haste though compensates for the -1 dodge AC given by blood frenzy.
3. When shifting armor bonus to AC becomes deflection bonus: hence magic vestment (cast on your normal clothes f.e.) does not stack with shield of faith.
4. PfA, MCaA, AaA all give def bonus to AC, hence they do not stack (even in human form), I believe ST boni stack but I've not tested that yet. Immunities given by the spells normally apply of course.
5. Barkskin works normally, since it remains +5 natural armor bonus to AC (at his maximum).
6. Armor skin and monk's WIS bonus to AC are considered natural armor boni not counting towards the cap (therefore they stack with barkskin).
7. Previous results about AB are confirmed. Dragon claws are +6 weapons (+6 AB/+6 DMG) and the dragon is a huge creature (-2 AB). Both these modifiers are not shown on your sheet. Hence, your AB is +4 compared to what the sheet says. WF/EWF unarmed do not work, but EP does. Since with all buffs on I get +15 AB, I easily cap in dragon form since the +6 claws count toward the cap. I still have a +5 AB margin as a human though. Guess I'm gonna get the help of some bard, eh-eh.
So, to improve AC you are left with exp/IE, high AC bonus armor to merge, cat's grace potions and probably bard song... does anybody know what kind of bonus to AC the bard song gives and if it counts towards the cap?
AB 69 is as good as it gets in dragon form, at least if they don't make WF/EWF unarmed work.
I believe that's all for now.
EDIT: quickly tested the defensive stance issue, by downloading the dragon savant and going through combat debugging. Defensive stance does not give you any bonus to AC when in dragon form, because it's a dodge bonus appareantly counting toward the cap, which you already reach as a dragon with your +20 dodge AC (see point 2). The other boni apply normally.
Cheers, Kail _________________ Dilegua notte Tramontate stelle Tramontate stelle All'alba vinceṛ Vinceṛ Vinceṛ
Edited By Kail Pendragon on 01/04/06 17:41
I found out bard song bonus to AC is of the dodge kind, so I'm afraid that it wouldn't help
I suppose you could make the build even more playable going 24 cleric 14 druid 2 monk so you got a skill dump and earlier monk progression.
Except for 1 casterlevel of cleric you lose nothing but gain deflect arrows later on and an extra stunning fist.
This build looks decent and should be quite useful. I imagine your worst enemy will be a 40th level (or 30+ casterlevel) arcane caster with mords though. One mords and all your buffs go more or less making you a simple dragon. Not much can be done about that point i suppose. _________________ Inactive for a while
Unshift, Greater Sanctuary, Implosion should do the trick. Unshift then GS is one good way to get out of trouble should you face it. The dragon is a powerful (the most powerful) resource you've got but you are also a good spellcaster, let's not forget about it. You've got many tricks up your sleeve. But true, pure (or nearly so) arcane spellcasters are a pain in the @ss, but for whom they are not?
I chose to go with 25 lvls of cleric to be undispellable (mords apart of course). I find the build very playable even with just one monk lvl, the second would add some playability (monk's bonus to AC in shifted forms, monk's attack progression) and make the dragon shape more powerful earlier at the cost of xp penalty and 5% chance of getting dispelled. Go for it if that fits you
Thank you for the feedback!
Cheers, Kail _________________ Wait for me Dragon, we'll meet in the sky By fire and magic, I'm sworn Hell is calling, we cannot be denied Fly to the blackness of the Storm
We must die to be reborn!
Should have posted this before, but.....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J%C3%B6rmungandr to get the Wikipedia on jormundgandr. _________________ I see the fear you have inside, you can run but never hide. I will hunt you down and tear you limb from limb.
I run the Pre-Epic Builders guild. Join and share your experience.
Some more on the dragon attacks and AB...
The dragon shapes have three attacks, claw, claw, bite. The claws do 2d8 slash/pierce damage and have +6 enhancement. They are also the source of a dragon's 40/+6 DR. The bite attack does 2d8 slashing only, with no additional benefits. It still pierces DR because of the dragon's own DR, but damage and ab are both 6 points lower than on the claw attacks.
Normally I think you'll cycle through the three attacks each round, so with 5 attacks it makes claw1, claw2, bite, claw1, claw2. I don't know how that is affected by "special" extra attacks though, like flurry of blows, haste, AoO, divine power.
Quote: Posted 05/10/06 05:57:59 (GMT) -- pulse cap
Some more on the dragon attacks and AB...
The dragon shapes have three attacks, claw, claw, bite. The claws do 2d8 slash/pierce damage and have +6 enhancement. They are also the source of a dragon's 40/+6 DR. The bite attack does 2d8 slashing only, with no additional benefits. It still pierces DR because of the dragon's own DR, but damage and ab are both 6 points lower than on the claw attacks.
Normally I think you'll cycle through the three attacks each round, so with 5 attacks it makes claw1, claw2, bite, claw1, claw2. I don't know how that is affected by "special" extra attacks though, like flurry of blows, haste, AoO, divine power.
Thank you pulse for the clarification!
I'd like to add that even though one would expect the cycling you show, that ain't happening so systematically in game. The bite attack seems to move all over the place, you can get it twice a round, as you can also not get it all; it comes separated by claw attacks as one would expect, but also twice in a row; sometimes it is skipped, sometimes it is there where you would expect and so on. I checked both with buffs and without, the result is qualitatively the same. AoO are most often claw attacks but I got bite attacks too. AoO come in at full BAB by the way.
At least, the animation reflects the reality of the attack type you are getting.
This issue needs some further testing, definitely.
Cheers, Kail _________________ Wait for me Dragon, we'll meet in the sky By fire and magic, I'm sworn Hell is calling, we cannot be denied Fly to the blackness of the Storm
We must die to be reborn!
I maed this build, but I didn't have those final stats...
Can you post the buffs please? However, I didn't reach those stats un buffed... Am I doing something wrong?
Cheers~
I am wondering if Kail even knows now, considering its almost 2 years old! We generally dont worry about posting buffs.
I am not sure what you mean about stats? You didnt get 32 widsom? It is the only thing added too. If you didnt get 32, then yes you did something wrong. Kail has always been VERY consciencious of posting true and accurate builds. If you are having troubles, print off the post and go thru it lvl by lvl.
Other than that, there isnt really anything we can do for you cuz we cant see your build! We assume you are building what Kail did.
In the end though, if Kail says it, you can bank on it. _________________
Quote: Posted 06/25/07 06:12 (GMT) -- Restos del Juicio
I maed this build, but I didn't have those final stats...
Can you post the buffs please? However, I didn't reach those stats un buffed... Am I doing something wrong?
Cheers~
What do you even mean, you're not being very elaborate. _________________ " -- They give birth astride of a grave, the light gleams an instant, then it's night once more."
- Pozzo in Waiting for Godot by Samuel Beckett
Quote: Posted 06/25/07 21:09 (GMT) -- avado
In the end though, if Kail says it, you can bank on it.
"For the SD build, you could go Bard 3/SD 10/AA 27."
omg GIRZZ!! That's the TOP SECRET UBER EPIC builders guild archer! Why would you DARE To link a post to that!! BArd3/sd10/aa27 is SOOOO uber that it has been outlawed by almost EVERY server in existence! Next time, I should check ALL my facts. Oh well, Kail seems to be lost, so GRIZZ is the "new" LEADER!
Quote: Posted 06/26/07 21:27 (GMT) -- avado Oh well, Kail seems to be lost
Lost is most accurate. Last time I checked, he had lost his cod piece in the blistering desert sands of WoG, suffered heat exhaustion in looking for it, and now wanders aimlessly about the Flaeness. We may need to send an extraction team. _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
Ariel, Ookla, RIDE!
Man, I can't really laugh at that after I've made the same kind of mistaked statements.
He might have gone to the level 60 PW Kalmar_Oxin mentioned... if you weren't quoted that he posted that on WoG forums of course.
Sounds to me like you enjoy watching Kail suffering at WoG rather than "compassionately" helping him grizz; that kind of detailed information about Kail's whereabouts makes me wonder if you're really asking for an extraction team or maybe you killed the last one that went out to save him.
Quote: Posted 06/25/07 06:12 (GMT) -- Restos del Juicio
I maed this build, but I didn't have those final stats...
Can you post the buffs please? However, I didn't reach those stats un buffed... Am I doing something wrong?
Cheers~
The max final buffed stats can be reached with some luck on the empored spells rolls, anyhow at most you'll be off by a couple of points. You always have the option to cast more instances of the same spell until you max it out.
Stat buffing spells are all those on the clerical and druidical list, beware that some are short termed (Blood Frenzy for example). _________________ Wait for me Dragon, we'll meet in the sky By fire and magic, I'm sworn Hell is calling, we cannot be denied Fly to the blackness of the Storm
We must die to be reborn!
OK, I am well aware of that htis is a very old post. But it's still is an extremely strong build.
Now the question I have is that - have they changed the prerequisits for Dragon Shape? It seems I cannot get it until I have 18 levels of Druid.
Peace always
Yes this build is no longer a legal build, as are many dragon shape builds as of 1.69. Also keep in mind that old epic dodge builds may take epic dodge before 27 because 30 tumble was only a requirement in the 1.69. Also there are many club exploit builds that can no longer be produced because 1.69 filled in the missing prerequisites in club feats.
Ordinarily, we would tar and feather you for bringing up an ILLEGAL drgon post, bt i remember this one! It was so much fun. Thanks fo bringing back the meorie Oh and NEXT time, there is no excuse
*edit: there is no such thing as tar and fetherin in the guild, it was just a statement to provoke :evl:
It's not difficult to make the appropiate change, you just lower Cleric to meet the dragon pre-requisite of Druid levels. Or you could go back to and older version and enjoy it as it is, your choice. _________________ "My name is Thaxll'ssyllia, but you simians may refer to me merely as "Sir", if you prefer a less... syllable intensive workout."
Edwin Odesseiron - Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn
Actually the build started off as a CLC 26/ DR 14 but I couldn't resist the benefits that 1 single monk lvl would bring.
