playable 1 - 40 PvM

Vitals:
Race: Dwarf
Alignment: Chaotic Good
Class spread: Rogue (40)

Starting Stats:
STR 16 (+2)
DEX 15 (+3)
CON 16 (+3)
INT 14 (+2)
WIS 08 (-1)
CHA 06 (-2)

Final Stats:
STR 20 (+5)
DEX 26 (+8)
CON 16 (+3)
INT 14 (+2)
WIS 08 (-1)
CHA 06 (-2)

Feat Progression:
1: Toughness
2: -
3: Ambidexterity
4: -
5: -
6: Two Weapon Fighting
7: -
8: -
9: Weapon Focus: Shortsword
10: Improved Evasion
11: -
12: Weaponfinesse
13: Crippling Strike
14: -
15: Improved Two Weapon Fighting
16: Slippery Mind
17: -
18: Disarm
19: Defensive Roll
20: -
21: Great Dexterity I
22: -
23: -
24: Great Dexterity II, Improved Sneak Attack I
25: -
26: -
27: Great Dexterity III
28: Epic Dodge
29: -
30: Epic Weapon Focus: Shortsword
31: -
32: Improved Sneak Attack II
33: Great Strength I
34: -
35: -
36: Improved Sneak Attack III, Great Strength II
37: -
38: -
39: Armorskin
40: Blinding Speed

Ability Raises:
All ability raises to Dexterity until level 28.
Therearafter, all ability raises to Strength.

Skill point spread:
Discipline: 21
Heal: 43
Listen: 43
Spot: 43
Hide: 43
Move Silently: 43
Use Magical Device: 32
Tumble: 40
Spellcraft: 21
Disarm Trap: 3
Set Trap: 5
Open Lock: 36
Pickpocket: 17

HP: 400
AB: 33/28/23
AB with Shortsword: 39/34/29
AB dualwielding: 37/32/27
AC: 28
Fort: 19
Reflex: 30
Will: 15

My attempt at an iconic rogue. I haven't actually playtested this one compared to the other two iconic builds I posted so I don't know how well it will work out.

The lack of shadowdancer levels will likely hit this build the hardest since hiding will be tough but if you have access to invisibility potions or can flank an enemy, you will do 23d6 in sneak attack damage.

I chose to raise both strength and dexterity instead of focussing on one because this way I feel the build will be all around better and will also be survivable against those immune to sneaks (I hope).

I initially wanted to go totally STR based but then decided against it since I felt Epic Dodge is definitely worthwhile for a rogue. I took Blind Speed at the last level just to top the build off with something truly epic

Now that I look back onto the build outline, maybe I would drop INT down to 12 and get another point in DEX so to save 1 Great DEX feat in epic which can be used for something else, such as epic prowess or another improved sneak attack. That would also replace Disarm with Knockdown although I actually would love to have both which this build does not allow unfortunately.


Please comment
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Inactive for a while

Edited By griphook on 01/26/06 13:32

I would take all skills from pickpocket and throw them into set trap, and get trap mastery if you can!!!
Interesting. I'd definitely take KD over Disarm - way easier to generate sneaks that way.

Also, I don't know if I'd call any Rogue 'Iconic' without the ability to find, set, and disarm all traps and take on almost any lock. I'd drop either Spot or Listen as well as Heal, and put those points into Search, Set, Open Lock, and Disarm. I'd also drop Blinding Speed and/or SA II in favor of an Epic Skill focus (or 2), or perhaps Skill Mastery.

With your DEX and INT as well as the +2 synergy bonus from the two skills, you'd need 35 points in Set Trap and 34 in Disarm (add 10 if you want to be able to recover Epic traps) to handle any trap in the game. I'd also max Open Lock and get my Search to at least 19, allowing you to automatically detect traps up to Deadly classification. Ideally, I'd have 40 points in Search to automatically detect Epic traps as well.

You can also save yourself 6 skill points by dropping Spellcraft to 18 (with your INT bonus, that gives you +4 to saves vs spells, same as you currently have with the 21 ranks).

So, to summarize, I'd:

Drop Heal and Spot (or Listen)
Drop Blinding Speed and/or SA III

Raise Search to 19 (or 40).
Max Open Lock.
Raise Set Trap to 35.
Raise Disarm to 34 (or 39 + Epic Skill Focus + Skill Focus or some other combination to get to a total of 68 with the take 20 skill, in order to recover Epic traps)
Pick up Skill Mastery and/or an Epic Skill Focus feat.
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Captain's Log, Stardate 6051: had trouble sleeping last night... my hiatal hernia is acting up. The ship is... drafty and damp; I complain but... nobody listens. Cin hit on just about everything I was thinking. The main thing to me is that if you are truly an Iconic Rogue, you should be able to open any lock and disarm and set any trap, to including during combat. A legendary rogue, should be able to set traps up on the fly so to speak, or to open locks under pressure. I would also definately go the kd route vs. disarm. At least if you do manage to kd your opponent, you will generate sneak opportunities.

Good idea on walking the line between strength and dex, btw. This way, you can still do somewhat of some damage if you cant land a sneak attack, and are forced to fight straight up against an opponent. You also get xtra credit from me for going dwarf, and getting the extra hp and other bonuses
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If everyone is thinking alike, then someone is failing to think. Like the build too, but an "iconic" rogue for me would go dex straight and probably strive for SC 5.
And fully agreed on the other comments already made
Quote: Posted 01/24/06 13:31:22 (GMT) -- Separ

Like the build too, but an "iconic" rogue for me would go dex straight and probably strive for SC 5.
And fully agreed on the other comments already made

And thus the peril in calling anything "iconic" or "ultimate", for one man's icon is another man's fool.

I admit I've toyed around with pure Rogues myself. I like the looks of this one, the choices made, the feats, race and attributes. It goes without saying that he does a lot of sneak damage.
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Ariel, Ookla, RIDE! I wouldn't have doubted that you like the race of this one griz

TBH i built the rogue with the PW environment in mind which is why i upped heal quite a bit (for healkits) and took spellcraft to 21 (as i could drink an eagles potion or similar for an extra +1) though this case is arguable for dropping a lot of points.

I considered epic skill foci as well, mainly in hide/ms but without a SD level, that seems like a waste. I agree that some points could be put into the trap skills to bolster those more while openlock is actually high enough.

For feats, SC V IMO is a waste when you got access to scrolls and it requires you to be nearly all out DEX based.
As noted, blinding speed can be replaced by something else if needed.
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Inactive for a while