Almighty Gods of the Critical Hits, I summon thee, give thy humble servant the power of great critical hits.
Alright, you might be already thinking in using a Pale Master's immunity to critical hits to beat this build, but it can be a good fighter anyway.
This is just a simple STR based character made for awesome critical power, all I do here is combine a Weapon Master with a Scythe and magic, very powerful criticals.
Playable levels 1-40 PvM, untested in PvP
Race: Dwarf
Alignment: Any
Status
STR 17 - 33 DEX 14 - 14 CON 16 - 16 WIS 8 - 8 INT 13 - 13 CHA 6 - 6
AB naked: +42 AB with regular scythe: +52/+47/+42/+37 Critical: (17-20 / X5) +4d6 (Overwhelming Critical)
Advantages: Good AB and damage.
I think HP is regular......
Disadvantages: Low AC, the fact that I'm relying on luck, criticals can be resisted.
Tactics: None, go there and kill people, maybe using Power attack, but I prefer to keep AB high.
Any improvement is well welcome.
Edited By Thaxll'ssyllia on 02/08/06 23:03
Well I've seen these kinda builds on my server and they simply work with PvP.
Though most of them use few rogue lvls for evasion and tumble. Some even go to lvl 10 to get the Crippling Strike, but since (I think) your goal is to get a really high AB, I must say you've done so.
Only I would try to squeeze in KD and IKD, with that AB everything which gets KD'd is sure to die by a critical (unless immunue).
Also str 33 gives you... +11 to damage so + 55 on critical... not bad either I suppose
Crossclassing Spellcraft might be an idea also, but that depends on if you got skill points to spare. (Drop 1 dex and put it in int, since you will be walking with heavy armor most of the time)
Well I'm not really a specialist on building yet, but those are some improvements I would suggest.
// Maniac_Mailman _________________ "Omnes morimur et quasi aqua dilabimur in terram, qua non revertuntur..." - Maniac_Mailman aka Nr|Five
Member of the Epic Character Builders Guild
In addition to the above, drop WM to 28 and take another level of fighter, for an additional feat (I recommend another Great Strength, to get an even ability score). Levels 29 and 30 of WM get you absolutely nothing.
Edited By Nimueh_Leafbow on 02/09/06 00:38
Why end on an odd-numbered STR score? There's no advantage. Start with 16 STR and put the extra 3 points elsewhere (either raising INT to 14 and WIS to 10 to grab more skill points and boost your Will save, or drop DEX to 13 as well and raise CON to 18 for more HPs).
Also, I'd drop a level of FTR and WM and pick up 2 Rogue levels to get Evasion and access to Tumble and UMD. Or, 2 Bard levels for a meager Bard Song boost, Tumble, Spellcraft, and UMD. If you take these levels in epic, you'll end with the same AB.
*edit* And leave Intimidate at 4: it's useless for anything but a Barbarian build with Terrifying Rage. _________________ Captain's Log, Stardate 6051: had trouble sleeping last night... my hiatal hernia is acting up. The ship is... drafty and damp; I complain but... nobody listens.
Also str 33 gives you... +11 to damage so + 55 on critical... not bad either I suppose
Actually, since a scythe is a two-handed weapon, the damage from 33 STR is +16 (+80 on a crit). _________________ Captain's Log, Stardate 6051: had trouble sleeping last night... my hiatal hernia is acting up. The ship is... drafty and damp; I complain but... nobody listens.
Most people would consider the "Reaper" to be more of a human type of creature (certainly not a dwarf).
I'm wondering what you think the starting stats for this build should be for a Human. I am thinking:
STR: 17 DEX: 13 CON: 14 WIS: 8 INT: 14 CHA: 8
Or, possibly:
STR: 16 DEX: 13 CON: 16 WIS: 8 INT: 13 CHA: 8
What do you think?
Go FTR 6/CoT 6/WM 28, better saves, one more feat. Starting STR at 16 seems enough to me, anyhow you are ending on an odd numbered STR which is mostly useless.
Cheers, Kail _________________ Dilegua notte Tramontate stelle Tramontate stelle All'alba vinceṛ Vinceṛ Vinceṛ
D'OH! Always forget about the two handed weapon adds x1,5 damage on hit... ah well
And what Kail mentioned above, this build might be something which have been done before. It has a little less AB, but sure has a lot of many other things.
// Maniac_Mailman _________________ "Omnes morimur et quasi aqua dilabimur in terram, qua non revertuntur..." - Maniac_Mailman aka Nr|Five
Member of the Epic Character Builders Guild
I was going to use a Half-Orc, but I needed 13 INT for Expertie, so trade STR for CON with a dwarf, and works quite well, it's the little killer, you wouldn't expect it.
What was the formula for dev crit DC? I keep forgetting it..... it involves strength alright, so I think it's a high dev crit here.
For some weird reasons, my builds always have low saves.
starting stats....... well, I know 14 dex is not needed, but I didn't wanted 14 INT either, and thought DEX might be better (DEX gives reflex right? or so I thought), the od-number STR can be solved in many ways.
Give up one at level 1, duh, it might be good to invest it on CON. Change a greater strength feat for KD, although KD is easy to cover, that's why I didn't even tried for it, just some prismatic dragon boots and you're immune to KD.
Hmmmm, if the last WM levels give me nothing....... I didn't checked thoroughly enough, that is a must change.... so Fighter, Rouge or Champion of Torm would be the possible ones right?
I hate skills... just filled in with intimidate, what is crossclassing spellcraft? I thought spellcraft was only useful on casters. Rouges can have Tumble right? maybe that would be the best.
Changes needed..... remake done must be, here or another topic as a new version?
I was going to use a Half-Orc, but I needed 13 INT for Expertie, so trade STR for CON with a dwarf, and works quite well, it's the little killer, you wouldn't expect it.
What was the formula for dev crit DC? I keep forgetting it..... it involves strength alright, so I think it's a high dev crit here.
Dev Crit DC = 10 + (character level/2) + STR modifier.
Quote: For some weird reasons, my builds always have low saves.
The best way to boost saves:
1) multiclass to a class that has different high saves 2) take the save-boosting feats 3) take CoT levels 4) add Paladin if you have good CHA 5) Boost Spellcraft to augment saves vs spells 6) Choose Dwarf for the save boost vs spells
Quote: starting stats....... well, I know 14 dex is not needed, but I didn't wanted 14 INT either, and thought DEX might be better (DEX gives reflex right? or so I thought), the od-number STR can be solved in many ways.
Aye, DEX boosts your Reflex saves.
Quote: Give up one at level 1, duh, it might be good to invest it on CON. Change a greater strength feat for KD, although KD is easy to cover, that's why I didn't even tried for it, just some prismatic dragon boots and you're immune to KD.
Ah, you're looking at PvP only? Yes, then immunity to KD would make the feat superfluous.
Quote: Hmmmm, if the last WM levels give me nothing....... I didn't checked thoroughly enough, that is a must change.... so Fighter, Rouge or Champion of Torm would be the possible ones right?
Or Bard.
Quote: I hate skills... just filled in with intimidate, what is crossclassing spellcraft? I thought spellcraft was only useful on casters. Rouges can have Tumble right? maybe that would be the best.
You need to take a little trip to the learning tree then. In many ways skills are as valuable (and sometimes even moreso) than feats.
Spellcraft: Every 5 modified ranks in Spellcraft gives you +1 on all your saves vs spells. If you cross class for 20 ranks, that's +4 on savess vs all spells right there.
Tumble: Adds +1 to AC for every 5 base ranks. If you get it as a class skill and top it to 40 ranks, that's +8 AC.
Discipline: well, you know what that's good for, yes?
UMD: gives you the ability to use most, if not all, magic items you find. Need I explain the benefit this can have to a non-mage?
Listen and/or Spot: see those sneaky buggers when they try to stealth up to you (great skills if you don't have True Seeing readily available)
Concentration: Don't you hate losing up to 6 AC when those bloody Pallys, Barbs, and Bards Taunt you? Concentration will alleviate that quite handily.
That's just a few that you might find of use. There are tons more, depending on your build and environment. _________________ Captain's Log, Stardate 6051: had trouble sleeping last night... my hiatal hernia is acting up. The ship is... drafty and damp; I complain but... nobody listens.
You spend a general feat for EWS on lvl 24, take Great STR instead and voila, even STR score at the end. Then, trade 1 lvl of WM for fighter which nets you the feat you need for EWS.
And listen to Kail, with some shuffling pre-epic you could go Fighter6/CoT6/WM28. Will increase saves. Remember that CoT feats can be used for EWS to, as long as you take WS on a fighter level. so you would loose absolutely zip and gain better saves. _________________ I see the fear you have inside, you can run but never hide. I will hunt you down and tear you limb from limb.
I run the Pre-Epic Builders guild. Join and share your experience.
Edited By Grimnir77 on 02/09/06 22:09
EWS... that stands for?
I didn't knew spellcraft did that...... good to know, tumble and discipline check.... but I would like to know how Use Magical Device works for non-casters.
EWS= Epic weapon specialization
Only thing I would have changed if you enjoyed you build as it was would be to switch to 12 levels fighter for the extra feat and 28 levels WM since you get the extra ab at 28.
I didn't knew spellcraft did that...... good to know, tumble and discipline check.... but I would like to know how Use Magical Device works for non-casters.
Use magic device allows non-casters like rogues (and bards, but they are casters ) to use scrolls, wands, monk gear, etc. The only thing it wont let you do is use gear (armor, shields, wpns) that you arent qualified to use.
I didn't knew spellcraft did that...... good to know, tumble and discipline check.... but I would like to know how Use Magical Device works for non-casters.
UMD allows a character to use magical items that may normally be restricted. For example, you can use Rods, Staves, Wands, Scrolls, Robes, and numerous other items that would be restricted from your class or class combination.
The way it works is, if you have enough UMD ranks, you can automatically use the items. _________________ Captain's Log, Stardate 6051: had trouble sleeping last night... my hiatal hernia is acting up. The ship is... drafty and damp; I complain but... nobody listens.
Ok, I left this build for some time, but I like it very much, so it's time for improvements to be shown.
HP: 576 Naked AC: 21 AB with regular scythe: +52 Damage with regular scythe: 2-8 + 22 (Critical 17-20 X5 + Overwhelming critical + Devastating Critical with DC 41)
About the Overwhelming Critical, the information says "...and a multiplier of X4 gives 3d6", like if X5 was not possible, so I really don't know if it does goes up to 4d6.
Well, now he has KD, since I changed Toughness for it but got 2 more CON for the STR, it's even, it lost 4 since Rouge gives 6 rather than 10 from WM, but 4 is nothing. Tumble gives some good AC, and the lost AC for the DEX won't matter with a full plate, and now I also have UMD, although both Tumble and UMD are very late in the game, practically unuseable when leveling, I know 42 Tumble is just the same as 40, but that was just to avoid spare skills. Fortitude save increased 1 while reflex decreased 1, saves still very low. AB and damage are exactly the same, so he's much better now.
Man, I completely screwed up there, should get KD much earlier for playability, not using the WM needed feats so soon, plus, changing 2 Great STR for Toughness and Blind-Fight, 40 more HP with blind fight to be able to kill those ethereal characters so much easily at only 1 AB and damage penalty.
My suggestion is to go with bard instead of rogue for your cheesey lvl to be able to max out spellcraft too. Your problem is that you miss the skillpoints if I'm not mistaken.
You could go human for 1 more feat preepic (toughness to make up for the lost constitution) and the possibility to max out one more skill (spellcraft if you take bard as I suggested). Otherwise start dwarf with 16 CON, 17 STR, 14 INT for more skillpoints and one more epic feat (epic will or ESF:spellcraft f.e.) ending on the same STR. Less HP but better saves.
Answering your question: the critical multiplier bonus from weapon master gets counted in by overwhelming critical so that your scythe is considered as having a x5 multiplier, therefore +4d6 damage on a crit.
You could download Kamiryn's spreadsheet, it helps a lot with formatting and speeds up the building process.
Cheers, Kail _________________ Stand and fight, live by your heart Always one more try, I'm not afraid to die Stand and fight, say what you feel Born with a Heart of Steel!
Edited By Kail Pendragon on 03/02/06 12:03
One more suggestion - drop the odd fighter level for an early Rogue or Bard level. That will let you get a skill dump at level 22, which will make levelling up much easier from that point. Costs nothing - same feats, same AB. End up at WM 28/Fighter 10/Bard or Rogue 2. I picked 22 so you can bump tumble to 25, you could do it earlier if you want, but doing it before level 20 will cost 1 AB.
TM
He'd lose EWS that way
Edited By Kail Pendragon on 03/02/06 15:53
Oops, you are right - he would have to take the first Rogue level pre-epic. Costs 1 AB, gains Evasion and an early Tumble/UMD dump, and moves 1 fighter bonus feat form pre-epic to epic. You would have to move knockdown back to epic, or drop it for an epic feat.
TM
Quote: Answering your question: the critical multiplier bonus from weapon master gets counted in by overwhelming critical so that your scythe is considered as having a x5 multiplier, therefore +4d6 damage on a crit.
Good news, thanks.
Quote: You could download Kamiryn's spreadsheet, it helps a lot with formatting and speeds up the building process.
0_o where do I get it and what does it do?
Let me think about the human.
+40 skills, nice for spellcraft with Bard instead of Rogue.
+1 feat, good, but then what? Great STR would leave it odd, I already have the fighting feats I like, something crazy like Improved Power attack would make my criticals much stronger, or Improved Knockdown, but it's not really a fantastic plus here on the feat part.
-40 HP, I try to get HP high because I don't trust my AC, so that's a bad thing.
I think I actually prefer the HP over the skill....
It is possible to go Half-Orc without much, loss,+ u get a higher DC dev. crit:
Str - 19 (34) (all subsequent ability increases + great strength I-VI) Dex - 13 Con - 14 Int - 12 (13) (use first ability increase here) Wis - 8 Cha - 6
If you take overwhelming crit as your first bonus WM feat, you can get Dev. Crit as early as lvl 27
AB - 53/48/43/38 with a non-magical Scythe, not including +1 from bard-song dev crit DC = 42
HP - 492 maxed
Personally I would prefer to use a great-axe as you don't have to spend the extra feat to get it!
You end up sacrificing some skill-points and feats by being Half-Orc, however it's a pretty mean build, against PMs, just knock them down with your 54 AB they'll need a lot of discipline to resist it....
Oh and there's a spare epic feat! For PvP ESF: Discipline is pretty much essential, otherwise it's up to you...
Personally as a 1/2 Orc WM build I prefer the monk 7 / fighter 8 / WM 25, has evasion, IKD for free, some extra speed, lots more HP, a slightly lower AB and absolutely NO AC at all!!!
EDIT: forgot so say, 1/2 Orc Bard 2 / Ftr 10 / WM 28 has an XP penalty where the 1/2 Orc Monk 6 / Ftr 8 / WM 25 only has an XP penalty for lvls 10-20... _________________ Grrr...hear my roar!!!
Edited By krsboss on 03/03/06 01:36
Quote: Personally as a 1/2 Orc WM build I prefer the monk 7 / fighter 8 / WM 25, has evasion, IKD for free, some extra speed, lots more HP, a slightly lower AB and absolutely NO AC at all!!!
EDIT: forgot so say, 1/2 Orc Bard 2 / Ftr 10 / WM 28 has an XP penalty where the 1/2 Orc Monk 6 / Ftr 8 / WM 25 only has an XP penalty for lvls 10-20...
Alright.... you spoke too much, being dwarf fighter gets off the XP penalty, and I like the HP you know. You make no sense, why adding Monk to a build would give more HP? Monk HP is 8 per level while both WM adn Fighter have 10, I would lose HP, so it can't be compared as "lots more HP", although, now that I think about it (this is edited) it might be a typing error for "lost more HP", yeah, that's more coherent. Yeah, no AC becuase you use Monk armor instead of Heavy.
I like Monks, it's my favorite class (love the 10 APR it can get), this is my ony build which doesn't have a Monk level, I've posted a monk/cleric, a monk/WM/blackguard, a monk/druid/CoT, a monk/druid/assassin and a monk/dwarven defender so stop the Monk a little bit man.
I wouldn't change the weapon, the trick on this build is to make a X5 critical with 4d6 overwhelming and dev crit, it can easily make over 250 with STR capped and a strong magical weapon. (near 170 with regular scythe and no buffs).
No offense, but I won't take your ideas....... you came late.
Edited By Thaxll'ssyllia on 03/03/06 04:44
By taking 4 monk pre-epic (with 5 & 6 coming in epic levels) you save 2 feats, cleave & knockdown, 3 feats if you go for IKD, this means you can also take toughness as a feat -> 40 HP!
Whilst technically you are losing 1 bonus fighter feat, this more than makes up for the added loss of AB with IKD _________________ Grrr...hear my roar!!!
Quote: You could download Kamiryn's spreadsheet, it helps a lot with formatting and speeds up the building process.
0_o where do I get it...
*points to signature*
Quote: ... and what does it do?
It allows you to build your characters using excel instead of writing them down on paper. You just select the classes and the CBC tells you when you get feats/bonus feats, how many hitpoints/skillpoints you get, what your BAB is... Also it does prestige class and feat prequisite checks and a few things more like AB, AC, saving throw, turn undead, bard song, spellcasting,... calculations. And finally it creates a formated text you can use to post your build.
You might need a short time to get used to its user interface (the inteface isn't really good) but once you know how things work it can be a good help imho. _________________ Character Build Calculator(works with Excel, Open Office) 2.83: updated to NWN 1.69.
Quote: Posted 03/03/06 05:48:13 (GMT) -- krsboss
By taking 4 monk pre-epic (with 5 & 6 coming in epic levels) you save 2 feats, cleave & knockdown, 3 feats if you go for IKD, this means you can also take toughness as a feat -> 40 HP!
Whilst technically you are losing 1 bonus fighter feat, this more than makes up for the added loss of AB with IKD
Taking Monk pre-epic makes me lose 1 AB. Taking 6 monk levels makes me lose 12 HP, and I did take Toughness, as I said in the post next to the build, "changing 2 Great STR for Toughness and Blind-Fight", that AB counters with the AB lost by the monk in pre-epic, but as it is, keeps those 12 HP, so it loses HP.
Evasion is useless with that reflex, so don't even think about it, monk does give AC.
What are you suggesting, fighter 6 /monk 6 / WM 28? you lose 2 feats from the fighter and gain the 3 monk feats, you could make it work leavin the last monk to the end for tumble, but now I lose UMD.
Forget the monk adding, I don't want another monk build for now.
Quote: *points to signature*
LOL
Alright, I downloaded it, it's nice I guess, would still need to learn how to use it well, however, I've never had troubles making builds, giving people a tool to make builds faster, as if I didn't post enough builds? not needed, I can post more often if that's what you're asking, but it's not like that.
I always think the build for some time and how I like it, say, when I have nothing to do (which is quite often), but to post the build I always make detailed tests, I don't write it on paper and post it, to prove its legitimacy, I use the console to max character's level to make tests, that way I can't miss things like to get a feat before attaining prerequisites, because the game won't let me, and that way, my numbers and positions never fail, not that they can't be improved, but they are 100% assured and tested, and I trust the game more than an excel table.
