Ok this is my first post so be merciful, although this warrior will not be, at least not to those who have chosen to follow the path of evil. With his Holy Sword spell, a Divine Wrath worth bragging about and a Lay on Hands that heals 230+ hp(468 when +12 items) he is quite formidable.
Race - Human Alignment - Lawful Good
Starting
Str - 16 Dex - 8 Con - 12 Wis - 12 Int - 14 Cha - 14
put 8 points on CHA and 2 on STR
Leveling
pal 1-13 cot 14-20 pal 21--------take skill points in dis and taunt here cot 22-38 rog 39--------max tumble and 30 UMD here pal 40--------max dis conc and taunt here
1 Pal -- pwr att, great fort 2 Pal -- 3 Pal -- wep foc 4 Pal -- 5 Pal -- 6 Pal -- divine shield 7 Pal -- 8 Pal -- 9 Pal -- divine might 10 Pal -- 11 Pal -- 12 Pal -- extend spell 13 Pal -- 14 COT -- 15 COT -- blind fight, imp crit* 16 COT -- 17 COT -- KD* 18 COT -- skill focus - discipline 19 COT -- imp KD* 20 COT -- 21 Pal -- Epic Skill - Discipline, Great Wisdom I* --- take skill points in dis and taunt here 22 COT -- 23 COT -- Great Wisdom II* 24 COT -- Epic Fort 25 COT -- 26 COT -- 27 COT -- Epic Skill - Taunt 28 COT -- EWF** 29 COT -- 30 COT -- Great Strength I 31COT -- 32 COT -- Armor Skin** 33 COT -- GS II 34 COT -- 35COT -- 36 COT -- GS III, Epic Prowess** 37 COT -- 38 COT -- 39 Rog -- GS IV ------ max tumble and 30 UMD here 40 Pal -- max dis conc and taunt here, 20 left over
* = COT bonus feat ** = COT epic bonus feat
Ending
Str -- 22 Dex -- 08 Con -- 12 Wis -- 14 Int -- 14 Cha -- 22
AC -- naked 19 -- as dressed on the PW I conceived him on, fully buffed and ready for battle: -- 19 +8plate +3shield +4haste +25(+5 to all five armor types) +12div sh +2dex +1 mage armor (scroll) = 72
AB -- naked 37 -- as dressed on the PW I conceived him on, fully buffed and ready for battle: -- 37 +6str +5gmw +5divine favor(extended) +3(bless, aid, prayer) +3(wf, ewf) +9wrath = 68
Saves naked
Fort -- 48 Reflex -- 36 Will -- 36
Saves buffed fully equiped
Fort -- 79 Reflex -- 66 Will -- 66
strengths: *divine abilities last a whopping 12 rounds, unless you end up chasing a monk around it WILL be enough *saves are so high you can only fail if you roll a 1 *level 4 paladin spells, death ward, holy sword, extended divine favor among the most important *AC 72 has to be considered a strength for a melee build *hi AB even though only 12 rounds of duration it WILL be enough *a taunt of 70 is too much for most foes *Lay on Hands heals huge amount of HP *21 points of divine damage per hit cant be resisted or reduced
weaknesses: *disciplne is too low, can be kd or disarmed * still crying over weakness number 1 *enemies with a lot of heal spells might outlast divine wrath, but if they are dispelled ....
I'll leave the rest of the weaknesses for the discerning eyes of the readers to find
Ok boys tear it apart *closes eyes and cringes* _________________ Its not whether you win or lose, it's how you take winning and losing that matters.
Edited By Markus Tarek on 02/09/06 20:46
If you don't mind being a corny Monk 1 build, you could take that instead of Rogue. It'll get you Evasion (VERY useful with a reflex save as high as yours) and +2 AC from your wisdom, which I think is worth losing UMD and 1d6 sneak damage.
If your saves, before and after buffing, are as high as you say they are, then drop Epic Fortitude and take Epic Skill Focus: Discipline. Not sure if you can take it at 24th level or not - you may need to do some feat shuffling in epic to get it in.
Also drop Great Fortitude at 1st for Toughness. Your Fort save unbuffed will still be 42.
AB fully buffed will be 63 and not 68 (STR +6, Capped +20 to base AB).
If you don't mind being a corny Monk 1 build, you could take that instead of Rogue. It'll get you +2 AC from your wisdom, which I think is worth losing UMD and 1d6 sneak damage.
Actually, one can't receive Monk's Wisdom bonus while in armour.
Also, in regard to your saves: your character sheet misrepresents what is actually your saving throws. There is a +20 cap to saves, and you are showing a +30 buffed increase to your Fort. Not possible. In addition, CoT save bonuses count towards the cap, so with 24 levels you have +12 already in the cap figue. This means that you only have room for 8 more to your saves. Once you toss in your max Charisma with items and a simple buff, you are against the cap. So, to determine what your actual saves are buffed, add 8 to your baseline saves. There will be none of this 60s and 70s saves, even though that's what your record might display.
With that said, I would drop Great Fortitude for Extra Turning, and perhaps squeeze in some Extra Smiting. I would also consider dropping 4 levels of CoT. The only thing it's really giving you is a bonus feat. Divine Wrath will remain the same. And you won't really lose anything in the saves department since you are already pushing the cap. I would take those 4 levels and jam them into Pally, which would make his buffs stronger, longer, and also give you 2 more 2nd level spells, 2 3rd, and 1 more 4th(Holy Avenger). This is of particular significance since you can metamagic some key 2nd level spells into your 3rd slots. _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
If you don't mind being a corny Monk 1 build, you could take that instead of Rogue. It'll get you +2 AC from your wisdom, which I think is worth losing UMD and 1d6 sneak damage.
Actually, one can't receive Monk's Wisdom bonus while in armour.
Also, in regard to your saves: your character sheet misrepresents what is actually your saving throws. There is a +20 cap to saves, and you are showing a +30 buffed increase to your Fort. Not possible. In addition, CoT save bonuses count towards the cap, so with 24 levels you have +12 already in the cap figue. This means that you only have room for 8 more to your saves. Once you toss in your max Charisma with items and a simple buff, you are against the cap. So, to determine what your actual saves are buffed, add 8 to your baseline saves. There will be none of this 60s and 70s saves, even though that's what your record might display.
With that said, I would drop Great Fortitude for Extra Turning, and perhaps squeeze in some Extra Smiting. I would also consider dropping 4 levels of CoT. The only thing it's really giving you is a bonus feat. Divine Wrath will remain the same. And you won't really lose anything in the saves department since you are already pushing the cap. I would take those 4 levels and jam them into Pally, which would make his buffs stronger, longer, and also give you 2 more 2nd level spells, 2 3rd, and 1 more 4th(Holy Avenger). This is of particular significance since you can metamagic some key 2nd level spells into your 3rd slots.
First, thanks for taking the time to read my build! All input is welcome. Second, I freely admit I have no idea what my saves really are. Standing fully buffed and geared up in the PW I play on, the numbers are as I stated. It sounds to me like I need to rethink my plan for this guy. The goal was to avoid the stunning fist (DC 61) of an evil Queen who resides in this world as well. Looks like in my zeal I have gone overboard. I have access to craftable rings so I can make them with +5 to each save and I wear 2 of them giving +10 to fort ref and will. So with that +10, and the +12 I get from adding my CHA modifier due to divine grace, the COT bonus is actually nil? Plus I am getting +8 to fort from my CON modifier. Third, the idea of fewer COT lvls was actually proposed to me by Ithacan, but I was too stubborn to listen. It may warrant some looking into, the only problem is I used the COT bonus feat to raise my wisdom to allow 3rd and 4th lvl spells. OMG, back to the drawing board. _________________ Its not whether you win or lose, it's how you take winning and losing that matters.
If your saves, before and after buffing, are as high as you say they are, then drop Epic Fortitude and take Epic Skill Focus: Discipline. Not sure if you can take it at 24th level or not - you may need to do some feat shuffling in epic to get it in.
Also drop Great Fortitude at 1st for Toughness. Your Fort save unbuffed will still be 42.
AB fully buffed will be 63 and not 68 (STR +6, Capped +20 to base AB).
I guess you overlooked it but I already have ESF- Discipline @ lvl 21. As for the AB, when I check my logs after a battle it shows my AB is 68, as stated on my char sheet. AB 37 + 5gmw +5divine favor +3wf, ewf +3aid bless prayer +6str +9wrath = 68. How did you get 63? _________________ Its not whether you win or lose, it's how you take winning and losing that matters.
If you don't mind being a corny Monk 1 build, you could take that instead of Rogue. It'll get you Evasion (VERY useful with a reflex save as high as yours) and +2 AC from your wisdom, which I think is worth losing UMD and 1d6 sneak damage.
No way I'm giving up UMD, and with it my access to imp invis and see invis scrolls, I might as well cut off my swordarm. Not to mention greater stoneskin and mage armor scrolls, mage armor being good for +1 to AC in my case. _________________ Its not whether you win or lose, it's how you take winning and losing that matters.
Edited By Markus Tarek on 02/10/06 16:45
Sorry had missed ESF Discipline at 21 - but is your Base Discipline correct at only 43 then? I can only assume you have not maxed it throughout the life of the build. (IE. 43 ranks from levels +10 ranks from ESF: Discipline = 53)
As for your AB: If your unbuffed AB is 37, then you can only increase this by a maximum of 6 points from STR modifier enhancements (12 points of STR) and 20 points from buffs (thats the cap). so... 37+20+6 = 63 How your log shows this as higher is beyond me. Your character sheet may well show it as 68.
BTW Tumble is of no use at 42 ranks, you can stop at 40 to get the maximum benefit from it.
Sorry had missed ESF Discipline at 21 - but is your Base Discipline correct at only 43 then? I can only assume you have not maxed it throughout the life of the build. (IE. 43 ranks from levels +10 ranks from ESF: Discipline = 53)
Add the Royal Thieves Helm (+4) and you get to 72 on a particular PW (-_0). Hard to get the discipline you'd like and the charisma you require for this build.
Quote: As for your AB: If your unbuffed AB is 37, then you can only increase this by a maximum of 6 points from STR modifier enhancements (12 points of STR) and 20 points from buffs (thats the cap). so... 37+20+6 = 63 How your log shows this as higher is beyond me. Your character sheet may well show it as 68.
Marcus is quite correctly including his GMW +5 to AB on his sword buff. So ya'll agree, near as I can tell.
Quote: BTW Tumble is of no use at 42 ranks, you can stop at 40 to get the maximum benefit from it.
True that.
This build rocks the house, btw, for boss fights and duels, which is what it is built to do. Very unruly. Nicely done.
Edited By Ithacan on 02/10/06 17:13
Quote: Posted 02/10/06 16:27:35 (GMT) -- Markus Tarek
Third, the idea of fewer COT lvls was actually proposed to me by Ithacan, but I was too stubborn to listen. It may warrant some looking into, the only problem is I used the COT bonus feat to raise my wisdom to allow 3rd and 4th lvl spells. OMG, back to the drawing board.
Actually, it shouldn't be too hard of a fix. You can start with a 15 Strength, and put those two points into Wisdom. Then, use your Lvl 24 general feat for a Great Strength and you are back to where you started.
And the only feat you would lose by dropping 4 levels of CoT would be the other Great Wisdom, but you'll have the 14 Wisdom anyway, so it won't be needed. Plus, you'll get to cast those 3rd and 4th level spells that you hitherto would have been able to cast.
As for your AB and Saves, your character record will misrepresent those. It will show you that's the score because mathematically, it is correct. However, the game engine will not recognize it for it works off the +20 caps. _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
Ariel, Ookla, RIDE!
The saves may actually be correct. The Pally's CHA bonus to saves doesn't count towards the cap, so it may be that enhanced CHA from items also doesn't get counted in the cap. I'm not certain of this, but it may explain what the game's showing. _________________ Captain's Log, Stardate 6051: had trouble sleeping last night... my hiatal hernia is acting up. The ship is... drafty and damp; I complain but... nobody listens.
I agree with Cin. _________________ Fanget av begravelsen pines vi av guds godhet ingen flammer, intet hat de hadde rett vi kom til Helvete...
~ Burzum - Hvis Lyset Tar Oss
The divine grace additional boni to saves due to a pumped up CHA do not count towards the cap, AFAIK. Due to the +12 from CoT (counts towards the cap) this leaves a possible +14 increment on saves (+6 from capped CHA, +8 from capped base saves) _________________ Dilegua notte Tramontate stelle Tramontate stelle All'alba vinceṛ Vinceṛ Vinceṛ
Quote: Posted 02/10/06 17:53:41 (GMT) -- Cinnabar Din
The saves may actually be correct. The Pally's CHA bonus to saves doesn't count towards the cap, so it may be that enhanced CHA from items also doesn't get counted in the cap. I'm not certain of this, but it may explain what the game's showing.
I wondered that myself. However, even it isn't counted, it's not enough to cover the +30 increase to the baseline. If enhanced Charisma isn't counted, then the most would be +26.
But even without items, he bursts through the cap with +12 from CoT save bonus, and +9 from Divine Wrath. PfA will give +2, and Prayer another +1, so right there he would be +4 over the cap. Hmmm, add that total to +6from Charisma and the +20, and there we have our +30. _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
Ariel, Ookla, RIDE!
Monk would idd be a better choice, and i would probaly change the skill focus feats to other feats, and the epic skill focus feats to Great str or Great cha feats. Altho, it seems like a really nice build, gotta test it some day
Why not drop 2 CoT levels and take another 2 rogue levels... more skill points, Evasion, Uncanny Dodge (well, not really important here) and another 1d6 sneak attack. Perhaps I'm missing an important detail but I don't think the last two CoT levels add anything besides +1 to saving throws (most likely lost because of the +20 cap). _________________ Character Build Calculator(works with Excel, Open Office) 2.83: updated to NWN 1.69.
Quote: Posted 02/16/06 10:04:16 (GMT) -- arvut
Monk would idd be a better choice, and i would probaly change the skill focus feats to other feats, and the epic skill focus feats to Great str or Great cha feats. Altho, it seems like a really nice build, gotta test it some day
Heh, have you never been disarmed? Or knocked down? In the harsh world that spawned this critter if you dont have discipline you might as well stay on the bench. I could see where it might not be needed in PVM but this guy is strictly PVP, and quite honestly nothing hurts more than losing your weapon to an evil villain you then have to listen to gloat about it on shout! And I already explained why monk is out of the question, no UMD.
At any rate, posting here has opened my eyes a little so you will soon see my NEW AND IMPROVED Strongarm of the Law. My thanks to all who took the time to critique this build. _________________ Its not whether you win or lose, it's how you take winning and losing that matters.
Quote: Posted 02/16/06 11:52:46 (GMT) -- Kamiryn
Why not drop 2 CoT levels and take another 2 rogue levels... more skill points, Evasion, Uncanny Dodge (well, not really important here) and another 1d6 sneak attack. Perhaps I'm missing an important detail but I don't think the last two CoT levels add anything besides +1 to saving throws (most likely lost because of the +20 cap).
Excellent points. The current version I'm making is 15/22/3. Perhaps a bit common but whats a guy to do? Kudos to Ithacan, you were right of course. I just hate doing the same thing everybody else is doing. I feel like we all should be wearing the red, blue and baby-#$%^-brown shirts the boys from Star Trek wore, so we can all be alike. _________________ Its not whether you win or lose, it's how you take winning and losing that matters.
