Attacks per round with Haste and Divine Power: 7 (4 at the full AB, if I understand it correctly) Main Hand - 41 / 36 / 31 / 41 / 41 Off Hand - 41 / 36 Each attack laying down roughly 33 damage (give or take (1d6+10 Darkfire + 5 GMW + 5 DF + 2 BT + 5 Str + 3 weapon))
AC 21 (Base 10 + Full Plate 8 + Dex 1 + Armor Skin 2) Buffed 32 (21 + Shield of Faith 5 + Haste 4 + Battletide 2)
Buffed (Wis 42) Spell DC's (could get better with Wisdom boosting gear) Hammer of the Gods - 36 (Base 10 + Wis 16 + Spell lvl 4 + Epic SF 6) Slay Living - 37 (Base 10 + Wis 16 + Spell lvl 5 + Epic SF 6) Destruction - 39 (Base 10 + Wis 16 + Spell lvl 7 + Epic SF 6) Word of Faith - 39 (Base 10 + Wis 16 + Spell lvl 7 + Epic SF 6) Implosion - 41 (Base 10 + Wis 16 + Spell lvl 9 + Epic SF 6)
Tactics / Pros / Cons / etc.
- This build was mainly build for use in single-player mods (levels 1- 25 or so). But in a PW, you could easily be a great support character, melee the cannon fodder and using insta-death spells on hard to hit enemies. It's better at melee than the numbers imply; it is adequate for most pre-epic melee, reserving damaging spells for the bosses. While your AB suffers in Epic levels, your Spell DC's ramp up nicely; spam Implosions for good clean fun. I ran a variant of this on a PW a while back, and I could solo farther in this than most of my other melee-ish builds.
- I chose the the Exotic feat mainly to open up the Double-Sword. You can, however dual-wield whatever you like (Scimitar-Kukri, Katana-Wakizashi, etc). Heck, use a whip-shortsword combo if you are feeling particularly Drow; Darkfire, GMW and Divine Favor will make up for the weak weapon damage.
- I hate ending with 2 odd stat points, but in this case it seems OK. You will be wearing full-plate, so the odd Dex score is irrelevant and the Wisdom stat will be buffed anyway, so it may or may not be odd depending on your luck.
- Empower your stat buffs (Bulls Strength, Owl's Wisdom), and extend the others (Haste, Divine Favor, etc).
- I didn't include it in the write-up, but I would cross-class Tumble for an extra 4 AC.
- Use Hammer of the Gods and Word of Faith for crowd control. Ultravsion / Darkness is always a standard staple as well.
- As with all melee builds (especially dual-wield), keep a sword and board in the quickslot for emergencies.
- With no Discipline to speak of, you will be very vulnerable to Knockdown spammers. Try to stun them with your spells before they get to you. Or try to find some Dragon Slippers. I don't think that cross-classing Discipline will help much against the high-strength Knockdown-types, but feel free to try it. I prefer to dump it into Tumble.
- Levels 1-7, consider using a weapon and a shield, you are going to need all the AC you can get at the early levels.
- Levels 8-15, bring out your twin blades of divine pain. Haste, Improved Invisibility and Shield of Faith should help your AC.
- Levels 16 on up, melee the cannon fodder and use Hammer of the Gods and Word of Faith to stun the ones you can't hit. Apply Implosion in liberal amounts to others. Make mobs walk through a garden of blades to get to you.
ps. Sorry for the dumb name, but I wanted people using the search engine to discern the type of build without using something totally generic like "Dual-wielding Cleric".
Cheers.
Edited By dmuzzy on 02/10/06 17:17
Those are some buffs... heh.
Not sure, but if you multiclass with Monk, the WIS extra AC compensates the full plate AC right? I mean, with that WIS, sure some extra AC, if you pick one monk level, you can use kama instead, without using the exotic feat proficiency (which could compensate the feat you lose for it) with more attacks per round + flurry of blows to make 9 instead of 7, wait a second, why do you make 7? divine power gives an extra attack per round or what? you can choose tumble as class skill too....... although maybe I just like monks too much.
Edited By Thaxll'ssyllia on 02/11/06 01:15
Some things to consider:
Finishing on 35 for WIS is not advisable, through the 12 point cap that exists on ability stats. You would be better stopping at 34 or 36. If you were able to finish your DEX on 16, then your Reflex save would be another 1 point better off as well, despite wearing full plate.
Not sure about the aim with this one. Your feats are biased towards spellcasting, and then you select all the Dual-Wielding Feats and Exotic Proficiency. Your AB Buffed and Unbuffed is desperately low.
Your AC will suffer without a shield, you can only cross class Tumble anyway
You're missing the following stats:
HP AC Fort, Reflex & Will Save Skills (I'm guessing you opt for Concentration, Spellcraft and Tumble)
You get a 3 point bonus to the dc of Implosion, a quirk of the game it seems.
Currently you incur a -4 point penalty to Concentration checks if casting within 4 meters of an enemy, and you will suffer AoO if casting under threat. Sure you have haste, but you will still suffer as a result.
For your odd WIS number just find some feat instead of Great wisdom X, if you pretend to fight melee some weapon focus, although you didn't even place pre-epic weapon focus, that makes me doubt wether you actually think on going melee....
For you AC, either monk multiclass for dual weild or go with a shield, in which case you could change ambidexterity, two weapon fighting and improved two weapon fighting feats for whatever you like, 3 feats are not just dump.
Also, maybe multilassing Champion of Torm instead of Fighter will be better.... but it might not work well in dual weild since you will get short of feats for the required WF, but excellent if you use a shield.
Edited By Thaxll'ssyllia on 02/11/06 19:11
Thanks for the comments and suggestions.
In regards to the purpose of the build, I noticed that their weren't any near pure Cleric builds that were built around dual-wielding, yet also retaining a good DC on their spells. Most dual-wielding Cleric builds use only enough Cleric levels for the buffs and then fill in the rest with melee levels. I was trying for something that was a formidable caster, yet could deal out quite a bit of damage in a short bit of time. I suppose that style and flair were in the back of my mind as well.
I understand the concern over with the lack of Weapon Focus and Epic Weapon Focus feats. To be sure, without combat buffs, you won't hit the high-AC types. In playtesting it through mods, however, it didn't seem to be too much of a problem. Greater Magic Weapon, Divine Favor, and Divine Power all seem to make up for the lack of combat focus. The high-dex rogue types were the ones that gave me the most trouble, and I just used a Finger-of-Death on them.
Concerning the odd stat scores; I was mainly concerned with a build that was geared for single-player mods (OC, HoTU, Aielund, etc.) that finished in the mid 20's (if that). I also figured that I would be boosting my wisdom with spells, so it may or may not be even based on the roll. However, Samphus, you make a very good point that I hadn't considered: with good epic gear, you could hit the Wisdom cap, so it would be better to drop the Wisdom a point and put it into dexterity. I confess that I hadn't thought about how that would help my Reflex saves, so thank you. I will definitely change that.
In the early days, I used to always take Combat Casting with any build that, well, err, cast spells. But, now that I have ran a few without it and not missed it, it seems somewhat superfluous. Only in the early levels do I seem to run the risk of an interrupted spell. And as most are buffs, they are usually cast well away from combat.
I had entertained the thought of throwing in a level of Monk; it could easily be done without incurring an XP penalty. As you said, the APR with dual flaming Kama's coupled with the AC boost from Wisdom would make for a sweet killing maching. But the RPer in me beat out the Powergamer in me. (for once)
All-in-all, even though there is a lot that is "wrong" with the build, it still seems to work fine; both on PW's and the mods that I tried it on. I suppose that is a testament to the broken uber-ness of the Cleric class.
And sorry, I just completely forgot to write down my HP and saves, so I will need to get those posted as soon as I can get to my gaming computer.
Cheers.
Personally I like your build, I have to say that Clerics are one of my preferred class types after all.
Bearing in mind that you do not have a Weapon Focus and you have access to use any weapon in the game, it could pay you to perhaps take a Katana/ Bastard Sword and Tower Shield for those closer encounters. Your AC would certainly benefit. Dual wielding you could even opt for Kukri/ Kukri, Kukri/ Katana, etc. It might be interesting to see if any of these perform better than the double sword. Just a thought.
Here is the revised build based on I...Samphus' suggestions. Also including HP and saves.
Priest of the Twin-Blades (Cleric 38 / Fighter 2) PvM Playable 1-40, but designed for single player mods (levels 1 through mid 20's) Human
St 14 Dex 14 (16) Con 14 Wis 16 (34) Int 10 Cha 8
Domains: Trickery + Travel (or Magic if Permahaste is available)
Attacks per round with Haste and Divine Power: 7 (4 at the full AB, if I understand it correctly) Main Hand - 41 / 36 / 31 / 41 / 41 Off Hand - 41 / 36 Each attack laying down roughly 33 damage (give or take (1d6+10 Darkfire + 5 GMW + 5 DF + 2 BT + 5 Str + 3 weapon))
AC 19 (Base 10 + Full Plate 8 + Dex 1) Buffed 30 (19 + Shield of Faith 5 + Haste 4 + Battletide 2)
HP (Maxed Rolls) 404
Saves (+8 on Saves vs Spells) Fortitude 26 Reflex 19 Will 33
Quote: I had entertained the thought of throwing in a level of Monk; it could easily be done without incurring an XP penalty. As you said, the APR with dual flaming Kama's coupled with the AC boost from Wisdom would make for a sweet killing maching. But the RPer in me beat out the Powergamer in me. (for once)
Then I'll keep it, heh.
Weird, why does your first build says you get 21 and the second 19? or did you just missed to count the armor skin? because you did got Armor Skin.
I recall there's another cleric buff to AC......... gives +3 natural AC... but I don't remeber the name nor the level, not a high one.
Weird, why does your first build says you get 21 and the second 19? or did you just missed to count the armor skin? because you did got Armor Skin.
I recall there's another cleric buff to AC......... gives +3 natural AC... but I don't remeber the name nor the level, not a high one.
Drat... good catch. Yes, apparently I must have changed my first post to add in Armor Skin, but never updated my working text file. Then posted without it.
Also, yes, there are a couple of AC buff spells; Magic Vestment and Shield of Faith.
I was just too lazy to bother listing both as I am also just as lazy and never bother to cast both . Magic Vestment provides an AC boost (Armor AC iirc) up to +5 at 15. And Shield of Faith provides the Deflection AC boost; +5 at level 18. Depending on your items/environment and your level, they may or may not be needed.
Worth noting that Magic Vestment can apply 2 types of Armor Class Bonus:
"Description: You empower the touched armor or shield with a +1 AC bonus per 3 caster levels (maximum of +5)."
Use 1 cast on your armor and a 2nd cast on your shield, giving you +5 Armor AC and +5 Shield AC.
