Again, I like the unconventional and wanted to do something with a half orc. This mix escapes my normal xp penalty for such unconventional thinking, so that's a step up for me. As to the build, wanted a barbarian half orc with a soft heart (ergo lots of bard) who could rage when necessary. Should make for a good party helper and add to its combat potential. Looking for feedback!

Half-Orc: (Darkvision)
01: Bard(1):Power Attack
02: Bard(2)
03: Bard(3): Lingering Song
04: Barbarian(1): STR+1, (STR=19)
05: Barbarian(2): Bb: (Uncanny Dodge I)
06: Barbarian(3): Cleave
07: Barbarian(4)
08: Barbarian(5): STR+1, (STR=20)
09: Barbarian(6): Weapon Focus: Morning Star
10: Barbarian(7)
11: Barbarian(8)
12: Bard(4): STR+1, Extra Music, (STR=21)
13: Red Dragon Disciple(1)
14: Red Dragon Disciple(2): (STR=23)
15: Red Dragon Disciple(3): Knockdown
16: Red Dragon Disciple(4): STR+1, (STR=26)
17: Red Dragon Disciple(5)
18: Red Dragon Disciple(6): Disarm
19: Red Dragon Disciple(7): (CON=14)
20: Bard(5): STR+1, (STR=27)
21: Bard(6): Epic Weapon Focus: Morning Star
22: Bard(7)
23: Bard(8)
24: Bard(9): CHA+1, Curse Song, (CHA=14)
25: Bard(10)
26: Bard(11)
27: Bard(12): Epic Skill Focus: Perform
28: Bard(13): CHA+1, (CHA=15)
29: Bard(14)
30: Bard(15): Armor Skin
31: Bard(16)
32: Bard(17): CHA+1, (CHA=16)
33: Bard(18): Epic Reputation
34: Bard(19)
35: Bard(20)
36: Bard(21): STR+1, Lasting Inspiration, (STR=28)
37: Bard(22):
38: Red Dragon Disciple(8)
39: Red Dragon Disciple(9): Great Strength I, (STR=29), (INT=15)
40: Red Dragon Disciple(10): STR+1, (STR=34), (CHA=18)

Barbarian(8), Bard(22), Red Dragon Disciple(10), Half-Orc

STR: 18 (34)
DEX: 8
CON: 12 (14)
WIS: 8
INT: 13 (15)
CHA: 13 (18)

Hitpoints: 392
Skillpoints: 196
Saving Throws (Fortitude/Will/Reflex): 24/20/17
BAB: 26
AB (max, naked): 41 (melee), 25 (ranged)
AC (naked/mundane armor/shield only): 20/20
Spell Casting: Bard(6)

Discipline 40(52), Heal 42(41), Hide 5(4), Lore 19(43), Perform 31(45), Tumble 25(24), UMD 22(26)
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TeoDeathDealer
Member of SoulForge PW (Action) It's nice, with combat and song capabilities. You finish RDD too late for my taste, I usually finish it early Epics.

A minor tweak in the build, you can get lasting inspiration at Bard lvl 20, so you can take 8RDD levels pre-epic and postponing Bard by 1 level throughout to gain 1 BAB.
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I run the Pre-Epic Builders guild. Join and share your experience. Excellent suggestion! Appears I also get another AC point from 8 rdd, so thats great. Thanks!
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TeoDeathDealer
Member of SoulForge PW (Action) Along the same lines, you could delay 4 Barb levels until epic as well. Go Bard 8/RDD 8/Barb 4 pre-epic (still get the full attack schedule, same BAB as currently). Then take RDD 9-10 right away, then bard, then Barb levels at the end (or even drop them for more RDD or Bard levels to pick up another epic bonus feat). You will have the nice final str boost from early epic, Bard will actually advance earlier, and only delay the extra rages per day from Barb (you could even move 2 of the Barb levels into early epic and still get LI at the same level you currently do).

TM
Quote: Posted 02/14/06 15:24:23 (GMT) -- Tattoed Monk

Along the same lines, you could delay 4 Barb levels until epic as well. Go Bard 8/RDD 8/Barb 4 pre-epic (still get the full attack schedule, same BAB as currently). Then take RDD 9-10 right away, then bard, then Barb levels at the end (or even drop them for more RDD or Bard levels to pick up another epic bonus feat). You will have the nice final str boost from early epic, Bard will actually advance earlier, and only delay the extra rages per day from Barb (you could even move 2 of the Barb levels into early epic and still get LI at the same level you currently do).

TM

That's a good idea, TM. At that point, I would even consider dropping four Barb levels and grabbing 4 Bard levels for two bonus Epic feats. Hmmm....all kinds of possibilities with that, plus LI would be attained much sooner, which equals lots of good fun.
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Ariel, Ookla, RIDE! I figure Improved critical would be worth taking
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Inactive for a while Nice concept, but limiting a little, with the obvious penalty to both INT & CHA

Personally I would do that too.. drop 4 Barb for 4 Bard, that is.

Your build could become a lot more playable with a few tweaks. I'll try and explain so bear with me...

Adjusting your starting stats to get INT to 16 and CHA to 14, this will give you more skill points throughout the life of the build. You don't need 4th level Bard spells until you are at your 11th Bard level (in this case that hits at 26th) anyway. You need the points. Drop your STR to 14 and you can also raise your CON to 14 as well - giving you more HP and a higher Fort Save. You can still end up with a higher BAB and therefore AB to both melee and ranged.

Taking all your RDD levels earlier is advisable, for the benefits to STR, CON, INT & CHA coming in at a much earlier point in the build. This affects your AB, Skills, Spellcasting, Damage output, HP, Fort Save, Immunity to Fire and Paralysis - so a lot of plusses to consider.

Bearing in mind you are a spellcasting Meleer, you are a bit Feat Starved.
Feat Selection:

Extra Music - With 22 uses of Bard/ Curse Song a day do you really need another 4? Particularly bearing in mind you have Lasting Inspiration and Lingering Song
Lingering Song - a waste of feat as you are taking LI in the build, which is a far superior feat (BTW you only need 20 Bard levels and the Perform Pre-req to get this, not 21)
Disarm - not advisable unless you are using a large weapon, giving you a +4 bonus, if your weapon is bigger
Power Attack & Cleave - In this build are a little unnecessary, but personal choice at the end of the day.
Epic Reputation - why? you get a bonus of 4 points to Bluff, Intimidate, Persuasion & Taunt - but you have no ranks in them

Several more necessary Feats could be used to improve your capabilities:

Extend Spell (longer lasting buffs)
Still Spell (casting in armor and therefore in combat)
Toughness (more HP - you could really use them)
Blind Fight (crucial in melee)
Improved Critical (a nice to have)
are a few that spring to mind.

Skill Selection:

Discipline, Perform are musts, closely followed by Tumble (take this to 40), Concentration, Spellcraft, Taunt (or UMD)
Heal is a bit unnecessary unless you are dependent on healing kits.
Hide - why?
There is no need to take Lore any higher than the 8 ranks needed to qualify for RDD, due to the Bardic Knowledge Feat you have at Bard Level 1.
Taunt has the potential of increasing your AB in combat by a further 6 points, temporarily - so well worth considering - if not then get UMD up as high as you dare.
You have no ranks in Concentration, I can only assume you will never attempt to use WarCry in Battle.

As it stands your Perform ranks of 45 only allow you to use a level 19 Bard/ Curse Song. The main impact being the bonus to HP and Skills.

Keeping the same level split and following this line of reasoning, have a look below:

STR: 16 (32)
DEX: 10
CON: 14 (16)
WIS: 8
INT: 14 (16)
CHA: 12 (16)

01: Bard(1): Curse Song
02: Bard(2)
03: Bard(3): Extend Spell
04: Barbarian(1): STR+1, (STR=17)
05: Barbarian(2): {Uncanny Dodge I}
06: Barbarian(3): Weapon Focus
07: Barbarian(4)
08: Barbarian(5): STR+1, (STR=18)
09: Barbarian(6): Knockdown
10: Barbarian(7)
11: Barbarian(8)
12: Bard(4): STR+1, Improved Critical*, (STR=19) (* or Still Spell)
13: Red Dragon Disciple(1)
14: Red Dragon Disciple(2): (STR=21)
15: Red Dragon Disciple(3): Toughness* (* or Improved Knockdown)
16: Red Dragon Disciple(4): STR+1, (STR=24)
17: Red Dragon Disciple(5)
18: Red Dragon Disciple(6): Blind Fight
19: Red Dragon Disciple(7): (CON=16)
20: Red Dragon Disciple(8): STR+1, (STR=25)
21: Red Dragon Disciple(9): Epic Weapon Focus, (INT=16)
22: Red Dragon Disciple(10): (STR=29), (CHA=14)
23: Bard(5)
24: Bard(6): STR+1, Epic Will, (STR=30)
25: Bard(7)
26: Bard(8)
27: Bard(9): Epic Skill Focus: Perform
28: Bard(10): CHA+1, (CHA=15)
29: Bard(11)
30: Bard(12): Epic Skill Focus: Taunt* (* if not going the Taunt route then ditch this for Epic Fort/ Reflex perhaps)
31: Bard(13)
32: Bard(14): CHA+1, (CHA=16)
33: Bard(15): Armor Skin
34: Bard(16)
35: Bard(17)
36: Bard(18): STR+1, Epic Prowess, (STR=31)
37: Bard(19)
38: Bard(20)
39: Bard(21): Lasting Inspiration
40: Bard(22): STR+1, (STR=32)

Hitpoints: 472
Skillpoints: 257
Saving Throws (Fortitude/Will/Reflex): 26/25/18
Saving Throw bonuses: Spells: +9, Traps: +1
BAB: 27
AB (max, naked): 42 (melee), 28 (ranged)
AC (naked/mundane armor/shield only): 24/32
Spell Casting: Bard(6)

Skills: Concentration 38(41), Discipline 43(54), Lore 8(33), Perform 43(56), Spellcraft 42(45), Taunt 43(56), Tumble 40(40)

AB melee up by 1 point
AB ranged up by 3 points
Hitpoints are up by 80 points
Skills are up by 61 points
Fort Save up by 2 points
Will Save up by 5 points
Reflex Save up by 1 point
Saves vs Spells up by 9 points
AC (Naked) up by 4 points
AC (Armor) up by 4 points (1 from Dex Modifier and 3 from Tumble)

You now have a 21st level Bard Song. This can increase to its full potential by raising CHA from spells/ items by 8 points (ie. 4 CHA modifier points)
You also have a decent unbuffed Taunt of 56, which can be raised further through CHA increases and the use of Bard Song.

A Maxed 22nd Bard Song adds 11 points to skills, 32 HP, AC +5 btw.

Some things to consider I feel.

As others have said, it would be better to drop 4 levels of Barb for 4 of Bard. This would let you get Lasting Inspiration much earlier in the build.

Hope you find this useful.

Edited By I...Samphus on 02/14/06 16:57

I like Samphus' ability and feat suggestions. One last thought on levelling - to get the RDD boni as early as possible, you could go 4 Barb levels, then 1 Bard, then 10 RDD (so you get all RDD boni by level 15), then 2 more Barb levels, then bard the rest of the way. Still get 16 BAB by level 20, end up at Bard 24 (so one more epic bonus feat), get LI at the same point (level 37), earlier Int boost from RDD so a few more skillpoints. Or you could drop Bard to 20 and boost RDD to 14, picks up the same bonus epic feat (although from the RDD list instead of the Bard list), a few more HP and 1 point of RDD AC boost. I like the Bard route better, up to you.

TM Just remembered something I forgot to include.

Currently the build can not wear Heavy Armor, which I think is worth considering taking as a feat. You may decide otherwise, but it might make the difference as your base DEX is so low. Thanks for all the great suggestions, I do appreciate the help. Have made a few adjustments. Decided early on I wanted to maximize bard first before RDD for the song; more party friendly that way.

Also, there are very good medium and light armors for bards and barbarians on my PW, so absense of heavy armor not a great issue.
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TeoDeathDealer
Member of SoulForge PW (Action)