Well as far as I'm aware this is an original build ..and a quick search reveals 12 other builds with the same base classes...11 of them have at least 20 Cleric levels with the other focussing more on monk than anything else...
I have several different versions of this build (all with the same class distribution) ...Dex based, Strength based...but overall I think this is probably the most balanced...
So without any further ado I introduce:
The Well Disciplined Champion - Cleric 15, champion of Torm 18, Monk 7 Fully Playable 1-40 PvA
RACE : Human or Elf
(detailed below it the Human version as it is generally more powerful. I DO like it as an Elf as you have keen senses and the use of a Longsword, however this comes at too high a price; 1 feat, 1 skill point per lvl & a minimum of -40HP)
ALIGNMENT : ANY Lawful
ATTRIBUTES :
Starting Statistics finishing statistics
Str - 17 32 Dex - 8 8 Con - 10 10 Int - 10 10 Wis - 15 16 Cha - 13 13
LEVELLING GUIDE :
1 - Monk(1): Power Attack, Toughness* 2 - Cleric(1): Domain Trickery, Domain War** 3 - Cleric(2): Weapon Focus*** 4 - Cleric(3): +1 Strstr=18 5 - Cleric(4): 6 - Cleric(5): Divine Might 7 - Cleric(6): 8 - Cleric(7): +1 Strstr=19 9 - Cleric(8): Divine Shield 10 - Cleric(9): 11 - Cleric(10): 12 - Cleric(11): Extend Spell, +1 Strstr=20 13 - Cleric(12): 14 - Monk(2): 15 - Monk(3): Skill Focus - Discipline 16 - Monk(4): +1 Strstr=21 17 - Champion of Torm(1): 18 - Champion of Torm(2): Great Cleave, Improved Critical 19 - Champion of Torm(3): 20 - Champion of Torm(4): Blind Fight, +1 Strstr=22 21 - Cleric(13): Epic Weapon Focus 22 - Cleric(14): 23 - Cleric(15): 24 - Monk(5): Epic Skill Focus - Discipline+1 Strstr=23 25 - Champion of Torm(5): 26 - Champion of Torm(6): Ovewhelming Critical 27 - Champion of Torm(7): 28 - Monk(6): Great Strength I+1 Strstr=25 29 - Champion of Torm(8): Devastating Critical 30 - Champion of Torm(9): Great Strength IIstr=26 31 - Champion of Torm(10): Great Wisdom Iwis=16 32 - Champion of Torm(11): +1 Strstr=27 33 - Champion of Torm(12): Great Strength IIIstr=28 34 - Champion of Torm(13): 35 - Champion of Torm(14): Epic Prowess 36 - Champion of Torm(15): Great Strength IV, +1 Strstr=30 37 - Monk(7): 38 - Champion of Torm(16): 39 - Champion of Torm(17): Great Strength Vstr=31 40 - Champion of Torm(18): Armor Skin, +1 Strstr=32
*If you wish, you can substitute Toughness for Weapon Proficiency Exotic to allow use of a few more meaty weapons
**The Trickery Domain is pretty much essential as it grants access to that beloved Improved Invisibility, however War is much more of a personal choice for the build! You could maybe take Earth to give access to Energy Buffer and Stoneskin...or maybe Strength or Magic!!!
***For the purposes of this build I would be using a Mace, though it has NO advantage over a Handaxe apart from a slight tie to the clerical side of the build maybe a Morningstar...
ATTACKS :
41/36/31/26 - before any spells are cast!
66/61/56/51
26 BAB +11 Unmodified Strength Bonus +4 WF/EWF/EP +5 Greater Magic Weapon +14 Buffs (bless - 1/aid - 1/prayer - 1/battletide - 2/divine favor - 5/divine power - 4) +6 Assuming Items/spells to boost Strength by 12
PLEASE NOTE : this is WITHOUT the +7 Divine Wrath Mode, lasting a number of rounds equal to your Charisma bonus...or 1 without items to boost Charisma by 11
This gives a nice healthy 2-12 + 44 with part of the damage Divine and Fire to bypass anything has Physical ONLY damage immunities. Naturally the Divine damage will vary depending on your Charisma modifier.
ARMOR CLASS :
43
10 Base Armor Class +2 Armor Skin +8 Full Plate Armor +1 Maximum Dexterity Bonus whilst wearing full plate (will require Cat's Grace buff or items) +3 Tower Shield +8 Tumble Bonus +7 Divine Shield +4 Dodge Bonus assuming a permanent Haste item
SAVING THROWS :
Fortitude - 35 Will - 35 Reflex - 30
These will also have a +4 non-modified bonus versus Spells due to ranks in Spellcraft.
0th 6 6 x Resistance 1st 7 Bless, 6 x Divine Favor 2nd 7 Aid, 6 x Extended Divine Favor 3rd 7 Darkfire, Magic Circle Against Alignment, Negative Energy Protection, 2 x Protection from Elements, 2 x Prayer 4th 5 Death Ward, 2 x Divine Power, 2 x Extended Prayer 5th 5 True Seeing, Spell Resistance, 3 x Extended Divine Power 6th 4 Heal, 3 x Extended Battletide
Theses are my recommended spells for this build, naturally people may have a different style of play to me so can choose whatever suits their fancy!!! In low magic worlds, it may be worth memorizing a couple of Magical Vestemants to give +5 bonus to armor & shield.
All in all though I think that is about everything...I have tried to make it as clear as possible to facilitate easy reading...it is a pretty strong build, though has a relatively low AC...
any comments/heckles/good points/bad points/ideas/suggestions...will be ingored
QUESTIONS :
1) Why did you take 7 levels of monk???
well I wanted 6 levels of Monk to get the free feats, Cleave, Knockdown, Improved Knockdown & Evasion...but there is NO reason at all why you could not take Cleric to lvl 16 or CoT to 19...you do NOT gain any bonus spells over Cleric lvl 15 as you do not have Wisdom high enough to cast lvl 7 spells...& lvl 19 CoT does not give anything extra either...at least with Monk lvl 7 u gain Wholeness of Body and can heal a monstrous 14 HP in the heat of Battle!!!
2) I like the build, however there is NO Dev. Crit. in the world I play on...how would you modify it?
Easy, you could the Great Cleave feat in favor of maybe Improved Initiative, Take Great Wisdom II and Epic Weapon Focus as your first two bonus CoT Epic Feats, taking Great Charisma I as a normal Epic Feat.
3) I know the build is called the Well Disciplined Champion...but why would you ever need that much Discipline?!?
Well THIS build has an AB of 73 when in Divine Wrath...that combined with the IKD from Monk levels in itself can produce some very high Discipline checks!
well that's all folks...thanks to all who read the build and enjoy...
EDIT : OMG it is quite a long post...no wonder it took a total of 4 huors to post...another busy day in the office
Edited By krsboss on 02/15/06 06:16
Doh!
The more observant anong you may notice that I forgot to post the number of HP this build will have:
HIT POINTS :
396 Maxed _________________ Grrr...hear my roar!!!
Nicely done
No ranks in Concentration though? What happens if you are dispelled in battle?
Is Skill Focus: Discipline really that necessary? another 3 points into Discipline seems a bit of a waste of a feat when your Discipline is already so high unbuffed.
Monk 7? no real benefit here, unless you were to continue to 9 monk levels for Impr Evasion, otherwise I'd drop 1 monk level in place of a further Cleric level to give you more spells.
Your max AB is 67 and 74 on a Smite. _________________ Fanget av begravelsen pines vi av guds godhet ingen flammer, intet hat de hadde rett vi kom til Helvete...
~ Burzum - Hvis Lyset Tar Oss
I would dump Divine Might and Divine Shield. With a Cha of 13, you adding 1 to damage and AC for 1 round, or 7 for 7 rounds with +12 to Cha. Not enough to be worth two feats. I would deifnitely take Empower Spell in place of one of them, for the buffs if nothing else.
For the weapon, why not use a kama? You took a monk level at level 1, so you qualify for it early enough. It would gain you more attacks and better AB progression.
Since you are str-based, I would drop ESF: Discipline. It will be high enough without it - 54 unbuffed, up to 60 with buffed Str, a few more with buffs that affect skills or items that boost discipline.
Last, you might want to consider dropping 4 levels of CoT for Cleric. Costs you 1 feat (but you have a few to spare if you drop the ones I suggest above), and spend a few on Great Wis to get it to 19. Some of those high level spells are quite useful.
TM
Not quite so, kama improved AB only works if you're using Monk armor (or none, methinks wizard armor works too, lol) and no shield, the bonus AC works the same, and with that WIS there's nothing much to say anyway, it's just not worth it. Mace deals the same as kama, why not a longsword? or if you do get off divine might and shield, bastard sword with the exotic proficiency.
Well, even if you're STR based I think your stats can be really improved, your CON and CHA are so low, get STR down to 15, you will only end losing 1 AB and damage, but you get 5 points to raise CHA and CON to 14.
Divine Might and Shield can still be of use considering the +12 cap, items enter into mind, although you already said so, but +7 can be good, it's depending of how you like it, it's not utter crap. If he goes only melee it's fine I guess..... I would go without them.........
Edited By Thaxll'ssyllia on 02/15/06 22:37
I...Samphus
Would have liked to have some ranks in concentration, however in trying to squeeze as much out of the build as possible had to settle for Int 10 --> not too many skill points to play with
NO, Skill Focus: discipline is not that necessary, however it IS in keeping with the name of the build Could easily be substituted for any other feat!
I kind of already explained about the monk 7...as it can't cast lvl 7 Cleric spells there is no need to make Cleric 16...as far as I am aware you don't gain any bonus spells 1-6 from Cleric 16 so only benefits would be an extra caster level...or 1 round duration for short term buffs!
FinneousPJ
I thought my AB calculations were correct! I made a test build and fromt the log I was getting an AB of 73 when in Divine Wrath...with War Domain powers, the character sheet was saying an AB of 77, however the log was still showing 73!
Tattoed Monk
I made several different versions of this build, a couple without Divine Might & Shield...though the overall build was more skillfull and had more HP I found that it did not generally fare as well in wide ranging situations (different PvP & PvM situations)...
Though dropping Divine Might & Shield would free up some feats, these would be PRE-Epic so would not be able to be taken as Great Wisdoms!
Thaxll'ssyllia
I would have liked ot use a longsword as the orignal 'Elfie' version gets the weapon proficiency free, however the other constraints that come from Elf are just too crippling. Maybe by dropping Skill Focus: Discipline you could take Weapon Proficiency: Exotic - no point taking martial! - and use a Katana or Bastard sword though if you can get yourself a hand on a Keen Dwarvern Waraxe you'll outperform on average damage
-------
Generally the spells are aimed at buffing only, especially towards increasing attack & damage so the higher level Cleric spells seem less useful especially as you need to raise Wisdom by 3 points beyond the final value I have for the build! This would result in more loss of AB and I'm still not really happy with it
When I was on my way to work this morning I though OMG why didn't I use Kama...would get the 6 attacks!!! Glad to hear that it may not work like that in Heavy Armor!
Still wondering about whether to keep Divine Might & Shield, however the Dexterity based version doesn't have either...unfortuanatly it also lacks Uncanny Dodge so is meat to anything that can Sneak past it's Spot skill!!! _________________ Grrr...hear my roar!!!
A lil bit less str and a lil bit more cha will be worth alot if you got the divine feats, the dmg will probaly be the same, and the ac will be able to get higher with the divine shield + the dmg will be almost unresistable by most foes.
A better weapon would probaly make it a better build but mace is kinda cool, altho i would have chosed morningstar myself. And as someone said b4, one less monk lvl and one more cleric lvl (and maybe the 4 less CoT, 4 more cleric) would improve it alot. Afterall, you are looking for long duration buffs that boosts your melee skills in combat and those other cleric spells arent too bad either. I understand why u chosed to take the skill focus in discipline, but that is as u said, modifiable and i would have gone for either weapon prof exotic or a metamagic feat instead of the skill focus.
Overall, a nice build, but it needs some modifications
Since the monk level gives you nothing, even though you mainly buff, cleric is useful while monk not, bluffs last a bit longer, and I think most of the attack spells get stronger at an even level..... spells get stronger with caster level, it is better than Monk.
You might want to reconsider using monk robes and kamas. In heavy armor, you lose the monk AC and Wis AC bonus (+1 from monk, +3 from base wis, +1 to +6 depending on Wis buffs, for a total of +4 to +10 depending on Wis buffs). Heavy armor gets you +8 compared to robes, so if you can get a total of +8 to Wis you match it, +10 or +12 beats it. You can get +7 from a simple empowered Owl's Wisdom, so you would minimally need only +1 from items to match heavy armor AC, and +5 or more from items will guarantee that an empowered Owl's will match or beat heavy armor AC. And the kamas will give you 2 more attacks per round (3 with Flurry).
TM
And then *POOF* Grimnir shows up with the shield in hand, beating the cheese-kama big time on AC. _________________ I see the fear you have inside, you can run but never hide. I will hunt you down and tear you limb from limb.
I run the Pre-Epic Builders guild. Join and share your experience.
LOL, poor guy, but wait..... disconnected from server.......
Nobody said this was an AC build right? don't traumatize him.
In heavy armor, you lose the monk AC and Wis AC bonus...
+8 from Full Plate, +3 from tower shield, +1 Maximum Dex. Bonus = 12
vs:
+3 base Monk wis bonus, +1 generic Monk bonus, +6 assuming full buff to Wisdom, +5 assuming full buff to Dex = 15
NOW assuiming you can get some magic items it would only require a +3 bouns to shield modifier (easily acheived through Magical Vestament) to out AC the Robed version
------ However I can conced that maybe a couple of general modifications could enhance the power of the build at a marginal cost!
The extra 40 Skill Points from raised intelligence could be redistributed best in 3 ways:
Heal 43 (46) Spellcraft 39 (40) & Heal 24 (27) <--would require taking last Cleric level at 36 Heal 0 (3) & Concentration 43 (43) <--would require taking last Cleric level at 40
Replace Great Strength V with Great Wisdom II...though this may be taken at lvl 30 to get lvl 7 spells straight after Dev. Crit.
The only real loss from dropping Strength by 1 is a loss of 1 AB & damage, not too much of a price to pay for the above benefits
Taking 16 levels of Cleric instead of lvl 7 Monk would mean that you would not get IKD until lvl 37 and you would have to reshuffle a few levels. I agree there is little point leaving Monk on lvl 7, especially as there are no major benefits from it, whereas it seems like a 16th lvl Cleric makes sense. However I really wanted to get IKD as soon as possible and still maximize Tumble so I'll leave this one open _________________ Grrr...hear my roar!!!
Think of using kama like getting free super-ITWF. With WF/EWF on kama, you can still wear armor and shield and have the same AB and attack progression as with a mace (4 attacker per round, -5 progression). If you want to do more damage, put on a monk robe and take off the shield, now you get 6 attacks at -3 progression, or 7 attacks with flurry at -2 AB to all (but 2 at max bonus). If it's worth losing the shield for ITWF (6 attacks at -2 AB and -5 progression), it's even more worth it for the kama. You have the flexibility to go either way with a simple hotkey to the shield.
TM
Heh, I forgot that the buffs would make his DEX and WIS a neat improvement that can't be got with a heavy armor, a high magical shield will gve more bonus I think, but you would lose many AB, so take the kama is worth it. I still think you need HP, but what I said before about setting STR to 15 for CON and CHA to 14 forgets INT... it also works for a CON 14 INT 12 and CHA 12, or lowering WIS 1 point for the INT to get to 12, either way it's your choice, but 396 HP for a melee is just low.
The skill focus feat is a must change, and there are lots of choices, you could just move great cleave, improved critical and blind-fight into pre-epics to take the remaining feat in, dunno, maybe more great STR or Great WIS.....
Edited By Thaxll'ssyllia on 02/18/06 02:30
Quote: Posted 02/18/06 02:26:41 (GMT) -- Thaxll'ssyllia improved critical and blind-fight into pre-epics
Blind Fight and Improved Critical ARE taken as Pre-Epic feats: CoT lvl 2 & 4 come at levels 18 & 20 so cannot be shifted into EPIC Maybe by taking a couple more Cleric Levels pre-epic you could shift these into Epic Feats as well, however that would come at the minimum price of 1 AB + 1 Attack a round... _________________ Grrr...hear my roar!!!
Please forgive me but I didnt see any mention of why you are taking Cleric to 15th level with only a 16 Wisdom.
I do agree with those that say robes are more effective than armor for this particular build.
Please forgive me but I didnt see any mention of why you are taking Cleric to 15th level with only a 16 Wisdom.
Cleric lvl 15 gives you the maximum out of 2 particular buffs: Divine Favor and Greater Magic weapon...which both give +1 for every 5 levels of Caster class. 7th level spells were less of a concern for me as they are NOT so good for Buffing purposes - there aren't any...even Extended (or Empowered for that matter)...that increase AB or AC!
I do agree with those that say robes are more effective than armor for this particular build.
See my earlier post about Robes vs. Armour...even with +12 buffs to Dex & Wis, you only require a +3 Tower shield to have a greater AC than you can possibly acheive without them...this is really easy to acheive as Magical Vestament can be cast on a shield to give a +5 bonus at lvl 15
Furthermore...if you are wearing robes and get flat footed you are going to lose A LOT more AC than if you were wearing Full Plate!
The use of Kamas with the better attack schedule would be the only reason to wear Robes and at the price of a minimum of 2 AC!...not only does this add an extra cheese factor to the build but is actually exploitative!!! : Monks gain the extra attacks when fighting unarmed because they use two fists and a few kicks as well...it is a deficiancy of the game engine that allows dual wield Kamas to get 10 attacks a round rather than the 8 it should be (with flurry of blows & haste...) _________________ Grrr...hear my roar!!!
Quote: Posted 02/19/06 06:37:43 (GMT) -- krsboss
Cleric lvl 15 gives you the maximum out of 2 particular buffs: Divine Favor and Greater Magic weapon...which both give +1 for every 5 levels of Caster class. 7th level spells were less of a concern for me as they are NOT so good for Buffing purposes - there aren't any...even Extended (or Empowered for that matter)...that increase AB or AC!
The spells give +1 per three levels, eg. 15 / 3 = 5 at level 15
and the summoning spells are not so bad. _________________ Fanget av begravelsen pines vi av guds godhet ingen flammer, intet hat de hadde rett vi kom til Helvete...
..and a quick search reveals 12 other builds with the same base classes...11 of them have at least 20 Cleric levels with the other focussing more on monk than anything else...
maybe a Morningstar...
well that's all folks...thanks to all who read the build and enjoy...
Since the monk level gives you nothing, even though you mainly buff, cleric is useful while monk not, bluffs last a bit longer, and I think most of the attack spells get stronger at an even level..... spells get stronger with caster level, it is better than Monk.
You might want to reconsider using monk robes and kamas. In heavy armor, you lose the monk AC and Wis AC bonus (+1 from monk, +3 from base wis, +1 to +6 depending on Wis buffs, for a total of +4 to +10 depending on Wis buffs). Heavy armor gets you +8 compared to robes, so if you can get a total of +8 to Wis you match it, +10 or +12 beats it. You can get +7 from a simple empowered Owl's Wisdom, so you would minimally need only +1 from items to match heavy armor AC, and +5 or more from items will guarantee that an empowered Owl's will match or beat heavy armor AC. And the kamas will give you 2 more attacks per round (3 with Flurry). 
