I intend to make a cleric, I haven't made any cleric before, I'm always seduced by multiclassing with Monk and those attacks per round. It fights well, and has a good magic power too, so I think it should work good.
Skills are pretty short since my INT is not high, but I need that DEX for Ambidexterity......
Playable levels: 1-40 untested PvM, untested PvP
I haven't played with this build, but I intend to do so.
Race: Dwarf
Alignment: Any lawful
Status: STR 14 (20) DEX 14 CON 16 WIS 15 (20) INT 12 CHA 6
AB with regular kamas: Mainhand: +33/+30/+27/+24/+21/+18 Offhand: +33/+30
I don't want to list the buffs nor tell the buffed stats, all the cleric buffs anyway.
I think that hasting as a buff can be helpful to get better equipment since I don't need to care anymore for it, but it only lasts 1 round per level, so I'm not sure how useful that is.
Advantages: A lot of spells for buff or attack, many attacks per round.
AC is fair, not really good or bad.
Disadvantages: Low HP, low AB, low saves
Well, I think saves improve with the buffs, but I couldn't brag about them anyway. Fine healing for the HP, besides the buffs increase a little bit more, but even with buffs, the AB doesn't reaches good levels.
Constructive criticism? I want to make it stronger before I start playing with it.
Added levels to the leveling guide - Kail Pendragon
Edited By Kail Pendragon on 05/29/08 18:45
My main comment would be the problem with no Uncanny Dodge in the build, which would negate any DEX bonus more often than you might imagine.
Otherwise both Blind Fight & Toughness would benefit you more being taken pre-epic, freeing up 2 epic feats, and making the build more playable.
So many points into STR? I Don't see why when you can call on Divine Power to sort that out quite simply. You'd be better off putting them in WIS (more spells and higher Will Save) or CON (more HP and higher Fort Save).
Drop your starting WIS to 14 and raise INT to 14, then you can max Concentration and Spellcraft.
Also, you'd benefit from finishing DEX on an even number (ie. 16) rather than the 15 you have, to gain a further point to Reflex Save.
Looking at the build, it certainly has a more self-buffing melee bent, than a spellcaster and I don't really see the benefit of all the Spell Penetration Feats. Your base Spell DC is very low after all. I would be tempted to drop them all.
Advantages: A lot of spells for buff or attack, many attacks per round.
AC is fair, not really good or bad.
Disadvantages: Low HP, low AB, low saves
Well, I think saves improve with the buffs, but I couldn't brag about them anyway. Fine healing for the HP, besides the buffs increase a little bit more, but even with buffs, the AB doesn't reaches good levels.
Constructive criticism? I want to make it stronger before I start playing with it.
*i had to add clericlvls.. sorry!
Can we say xp penalty! Let me ask you, why dwarf? Yes you get 16 con, but human gives you so much more! NO XP PENALTY = you may reach lv 40 !!! jk
Also, since you have 3 core classes, human allows you some freedoms in lvl distribution. See, 25cleric doesnt give you much. 9monk/6ftr gives you an xp penalty (thats the third time i mentioned that.. hmm). Anyway, goind 23 cleric/9monk/8ftr removes that nasty. It gives you a useful feat, while maintaining the monk lv. Oh, you loose 2 con so you end with 14 con (i guess you start with it too! )
Since blind fight is a bonus ftr feat (as far as i remember) this frees up 3 epic feats. Opps, epic spell pen isnt really that good for this build, since he has more melee base (4 atts) than caster. SO you have 3 epic feats to take gr str 5! ending with str 23! WOOT! If only we could see past the need to loose a point to dex! LOL so that means you have 1 free feat epic, so you could keep toughness, if you wish. See, sometimes you need to loose epic feats to regular feats, ie makin a non-ftr, dexer wm! But with 3 cores, you shouldnt really waste those ones. just my 2 cents there.
THe other thing is, I understand why you break up the levling early on, but in my vast experience with clerics (virtually all i enjoy playing for 3 years now), you will find the build alot more playable taking cleric to 10 THEN working in monk/ftr like you have. WHY? YOu get lv 5 spells asap! Thats heal, impr invis, etc! Oh and if you need it, you get +3 gmw, +3 div fav, +3 shield, +3 magic vestment, etc and darkfire! SO basically, if you are in a world with hard to find magic, you make your own! You're a cleric
Hope I helped with my suggestions. Enjoy the class. God knows I do.
Peace
The only other thing that you might consider, is that if you keep your BAB 15 pre-epic, you can take advantage of the Divine Power "bug" (actually, I'm not really sure if it is classified as a bug or not).
Basically, you would get an extra attack per round at your highest AB. Of course you wouldn't have that extra attack until you cast Divine Power, but it might be worth it considering you are getting so many APR anyway.
Other than that, it looks good. With Divine Favor, Darkfire, Battletide, and GMW, you should be dishing out an insane amount of damage per round.
Cheers.
So, my attack spells have sucky DC's? if spell penetration doesn't works good I'll be happy to drop them, I thought they would be useful. In that case I suppose I'll arrange the blind-fight and toughnes which are in epic by simply replacing them for the spell penetration feats.
I chose Dwarf not precisely for the CON but because I can get more initial stats by dropping CHA.
I thought a lot of time on the INT....... hard desicion, I knew that increasing INT might be suggested........ I'll try it, and see how good or bad it gets, but I suppose you're right, since the WIS point is worth for 2.
What is the divine power bug? since it's a spell I thought it works with the +12 cap, that's why I raised STR......
I might keep the class breakdown like that....... I try to get melee feats ASAP, not spells, so, the importance for the monk level to be able to use a kama is of first stance.
What is the divine power bug? since it's a spell I thought it works with the +12 cap, that's why I raised STR......
The Divine Power bug is that if your character does not have 4 base APR, you gain more attacks at your highest AB. _________________ Fanget av begravelsen pines vi av guds godhet ingen flammer, intet hat de hadde rett vi kom til Helvete...
~ Burzum - Hvis Lyset Tar Oss
Crap! you mean the tenth attack per round gets as the best AB instead as the worst? sounds good enough to me. But then, it still works with 17 BAB pre-epic, not only 15, since the last APR gets at 18, so 5 fighter levels pre-epic wouldn't give it yet.
Alright, I will take the XP into consideration.... it will be much more playable as a human ending fighter 8 monk 9
Cleric 23 / Monk 9 / Fighter 8
Race: human
Status: STR 14 DEX 14 (16) CON 14 (22) WIS 14 (20) INT 14 CHA 8
Level breakdown
1 cleric - two weapon fighting, toughness 2 monk 3 cleric - weapon focus: kama 4 cleric - DEX +1 (15) 5 cleric 6 cleric - ambidexterity 7 cleric 8 cleric - DEX +1 (16) 9 cleric - empower spell 10 cleric 11 fighter - blind-fight 12 fighter - WIS +1 (15), improved critical: kama, extend spell 13 monk 14 monk 15 fighter - improved two weapon fighting 16 fighter - WIS +1 (16), weapon specialization: kama 17 monk 18 monk - dodge 19 fighter 20 cleric - WIS +1 (17) 21 fighter - epic weapon focus: kama, epic weapon specialization: kama 22 monk 23 monk 24 fighter - WIS +1 (18), epic prowess 25 fighter - armor skin 26 cleric 27 monk - great constitution I (15) 28 cleric - WIS +1 (19) 29 cleric 30 cleric - great consitution II (16) 31 cleric 32 cleric - CON +1 (17) 33 cleric - greater constitution III (18) 34 cleric 35 cleric 36 cleric - CON +1, great constitution IV (20) 37 cleric 38 cleric 39 cleric - great constitution V (21), great Wisdom I 40 monk - CON +1 (22)
*All the CON can be changed for STR or WIS (or DEX, but I think WIS is better) with no problem, I just decided go for HP, fortitude saves go up too.
Ok, I maxed those skils, but now I have too much, I used persuasion since it's a little useful in PvM, but still, what should I use, Hide? UMD is not open in my classes......
naked HP: 616 - buffed HP: 776
naked AC: 29
naked AB: +28/+25/+22/+19/+16
For increasing CON my AB dropped, but it still increases a lot with the buffs.
I already started playing with it, I'm just level 9, and it's really strong, mainly because the buffs are better than the magical items, although that could change with the levels, when the buffs get maxed.
Edited By Thaxll'ssyllia on 02/19/06 02:38
With "only" 23 cleric lvls you are now dispellable _________________ Dilegua notte Tramontate stelle Tramontate stelle All'alba vinceṛ Vinceṛ Vinceṛ
That doesn't sounds encouraging..... I wasn't dispellable with 25? or in a better statement, how do you become not-dispellable?
A dispel check is d20 + caster level vs. DC 11 + caster level. Not including Mord's, the best check one can get is d20 +15 with a Greater Dispel (which is capped at level 15 as you can see). Ergo, the highest check is 20 +15 = 35; if your caster level +11 > 35 you're immune (that's level 25 and higher ). _________________ Fanget av begravelsen pines vi av guds godhet ingen flammer, intet hat de hadde rett vi kom til Helvete...
With "only" 23 cleric lvls you are now dispellable
And? Why do you choose to scare the new builders with meaningless statements that prey on their lack of experience.
It's OK to build a caster with less than 25 lvls! There is no such creature as the "perfect" character! NO-one can have everything!
Your build is great!
Peace
Why are you so aggressive? I'm not scaring anyone (what is there to be scared of?). The statement is far from meaningless. I pointed out, in case the OP didn't know (which is the case btw) that he was giving up his undispellability by going 23 CLC. Knowledge is power, the power to decide what is better for him. Finneous and I gave him that power, making him a more experienced builder.
It is indeed ok to build casters with less then 25 lvls, but when you get so close it is probably worth to go for 25 lvls. And indeed there is no such a thing as the perfect build, that's the nice thing about character building. On this we agree, and I believe many (if not all) others do.
You should check out your attitude, especially when you sign "peace" in your posts.
Cheers, Kail _________________ Wait for me Dragon, we'll meet in the sky By fire and magic, I'm sworn Hell is calling, we cannot be denied Fly to the blackness of the Storm
We must die to be reborn!
It would still need a roll of 18...... my chances are not bad.
I'll keep the playability, at least with this build, for that I coul drop fighter levels to 6 as in the first version, to 5 to still keep EWS, or drop fighter completely, for maybea Cleric 31 / Monk 9
LOL, I don't think it's scary..... it's good to learn it I guess..... I didn't knew 35 was the max dispell roll.
If there was a perfect character it would be very unfair and less fun, but of course no one wants a crappy character.
Thanks.
Yeah, that's it your chances are still ok, 10% to be dispelled. It's good to be aware of it though
Alright, I will take the XP into consideration.... it will be much more playable as a human ending fighter 8 monk 9
Cleric 23 / Monk 9 / Fighter 8
Race: human
taking both the human race and the 9 monk/8 fighter is doing the same thing twice. The human race works to avoid the xp penalty form the original monk/fighter split u had where as the new split avoids the xp penalty for the dwarf race. i suggest you do one or the other...not both _________________ http://www.helpwinmybet.com/
taking both the human race and the 9 monk/8 fighter is doing the same thing twice. The human race works to avoid the xp penalty form the original monk/fighter split u had where as the new split avoids the xp penalty for the dwarf race. i suggest you do one or the other...not both
That's not right. The human makes Cleric (most lvls) your favord class. Then monk and fighter must be within 1 lvl or you suffer a penalty. With dwarf, fighter, yes, is your favord class, but then you have a 23/9 difference = xp penalty. The difficulty here is that he took 3 core classes.
taking both the human race and the 9 monk/8 fighter is doing the same thing twice. The human race works to avoid the xp penalty form the original monk/fighter split u had where as the new split avoids the xp penalty for the dwarf race. i suggest you do one or the other...not both
That's not right. The human makes Cleric (most lvls) your favord class. Then monk and fighter must be within 1 lvl or you suffer a penalty. With dwarf, fighter, yes, is your favord class, but then you have a 23/9 difference = xp penalty. The difficulty here is that he took 3 core classes.
wow i must have been way too sleepy last night when i posted that. you are indeed correct avado. so to the OP just completely ignore that post i made. _________________ http://www.helpwinmybet.com/
!!! jk
