Skills: Discipline 43(44), Hide 43(51), Move Silently 43(51), Spellcraft 20(22), Tumble 40(48) 33 ranks left over - possibly Lore thanks to Dwarven racial bonus
Strengths HIPS Evasion/ Improved Evasion Epic Dodge Dual Wielding Kama Flurrying Cheese EDR 3 Lots of HP for when you do get hit Shadow Evade (AC +4, 20% concealment, Damage Reduction 10/+3) Darkvision Natural Spell Resistance 22 Epic Weapon Spec to give some sort of damage output. Monk Speed +40%
Weaknesses Low Will save (helped with Slippery Mind) No UMD No Sneaks Mediocre AB
I had wanted SC 5 as well, but trying to balance out DEX & CON for Epic Dodge and the EDR feats is tricky. Particularly when you need some sort of damage output available as well.
Looking for ways to improve on this one.
Edited By I...Samphus on 02/17/06 13:02
The reason why you didn't find such a mix is that there is little value in having 7+ levels of SD and 9+levels of Monk in the same build. The whole point in taking 10SD is to get Improved Evasion, which further opens up Epic Dodge and SC. However, since Monk9 gets Improved Evasion, there seems little reason to take more than 5 levels of SD (to get Defensive Roll) in any build that has 9+ levels of Monk. This is why you'll see dozens of Monk9/SD5/ClassX builds, as those 14 levels provide a character with a lot of tricks.
This now has profound implications on your build. You havenow just given yourself an extra 5 levels to play with.
You can now go Fighter8/Monk8/SD4 in pre-epic. Much better, much faster. The whole build has just accelerated by 150%. This also means that you can drop the Knockdown feat you took in pre-epic, and acquire something more useful.
You can take Monk9 at Level21, SD5, at 22, then continue with pretty much everything you else did. We can't change when you get Epic Dodge unless we change your starting Dex.
But now you'll hit Monk17, which means that you can fight fairly decent unarmed, and if you can find a way to sneak in 1 more Monk level for Empty Body, you're set. Squeezing in 3 would be ideal, because then you would have that +1AC and the Mind Immunity thing. But it would mean pushing some Fighter levels into Epic and lowering your AB by one. But since this character doesn't have innate any significant innate concealment or UMD, it is still worth considering. _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
Ariel, Ookla, RIDE!
I would take the fighter levels pre-epic as much as I could, he problem is that you would be losing SD bonuses for more levels, but if you place more fighter levels pre-epic your AB will increase a little.
Quote: Lots of HP for when you do get hit
Your HP is high but not so amazingly as to brag about it, but I'm not so sure about your AC, you will lose DEX bonus if you wear a heavy armor, even with a leather armor, since the max DEX bonus is +8, you do have +8, but any extra equipment that increases DEX wouldn't give you AC...... so I don't know what you're planning to use as an armor, your AC won't go much higher..... I suppose you would use a Monk armor to keep the kama cheese, the DEX goes infinitely then, but you're still not going so high. you would get near that with less DEX a heavy armor, if you use STR instead of DEX your damage will increase too, since Weapon Finesse can give AB, but not damage, not enough feats as to go for dev crit, but damage much increased. I hope I'm not missing something in which DEX is primordial.
I also agree that 5 Shadowdancer levels might be enough, but I wouldn't go too much Monk, less unarmed monk, if your WIS is not high, when you get Improved Evasion Monk already works good. I think more Fighter levels pre-epic, for more AB and feats.
After much consideration, this build is not a worthy entry to this guild after all. Far too many problems with it.
Kail, if I may, I formally request its removal from the guild listing.
Many Thanks
Quote: Posted 02/18/06 01:55:04 (GMT) -- Thaxll'ssyllia ... Your HP is high but not so amazingly as to brag about it,
600+ is plenty, especially for a dexer. I would mention it as a definate plus for a melee fighter.
Quote: but I'm not so sure about your AC, you will lose DEX bonus if you wear a heavy armor, even with a leather armor, since the max DEX bonus is +8, you do have +8, but any extra equipment that increases DEX wouldn't give you AC...... so I don't know what you're planning to use as an armor, your AC won't go much higher..... I suppose you would use a Monk armor to keep the kama cheese, the DEX goes infinitely then, but you're still not going so high.
add in some dex and wis boosting gear, some monk equipment, and you are not looking too shabby. monks generally aren't known for poor AC. keep in mind that any armour will cancel the innate monk bonus AC. so going dex is probably a good route for this build. also don't forget that with only 12 in strength wearing a lot of armour is not a good idea. you will barely be able to move. also, i think that wearing armour disables the monk attack schedule. and the monk speed. you give up a lot wearing armour with a monk build. just a thought.
i like the idea behind this one. a little modification will make it uber, but as it stands its pretty decent. i thinking that shooting for 18 monk would give a lot to the build. dropping to 5 SD is the most popular option, although if the will save is bugging you aim for sd7. less fighter is not _that_ bad.
concealment is hard to ignore for a dexer. with concealment, good AC and strong HP this one is a surviver.
-cs _________________ Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.
After much consideration, this build is not a worthy entry to this guild after all. Far too many problems with it.
Kail, if I may, I formally request its removal from the guild listing.
Many Thanks
don't be hasty master samphus...
Alrighty christian, thanks for the vote of support. I'll try harder!
Kail ignore my previous request. I'll be back on this one again sometime.
Stalwart Hidden Monk - Revised Variant Fighter(24), Monk(11), Shadowdancer(5) Dwarf PvM 1-40
PROS HIPS Evasion/ Improved Evasion Epic Dodge (at 30th) Dual Wielding Kama Flurrying Cheese Epic Damage Reduction III (9/-) 648 HP unbuffed (nice for a Dexer) Shadow Evade Darkvision Wpn Spec/ Epic Wpn Spec Monk Speed +30% Immunity to Poison Immunity to Non-Magic Disease
CONS No UMD No Sneaks No Spellcraft ranks
Net Improvements: HP: +12 Fort Save: +2 Will Save: +8 Immunity to Poison Called Shot AB (kama): +1 AB (ranged): +1 Base Damage output (STR): +1
Net Decrements: SKillpoints: -65 Reflex Save: -1 Saves vs Spells: -4 No Natural Spell Resistance Monk Speed -10%
Much happier with this version, but a little undecided with regard to the 2 points in STR instead of INT. It may be most people's opinion to leave it in INT, allowing you a further +4 points for saves versus spells, by cross-classing in Spellcraft.
Choice is yours basically.
Ok then, lets see what you think now...
Edited By I...Samphus on 05/05/06 16:17
Quote: Posted 05/05/06 16:16:21 (GMT) -- I...Samphus ... Much happier with this version, but a little undecided with regard to the 2 points in STR instead of INT. It may be most people's opinion to leave it in INT, allowing you a further +4 points for saves versus spells, by cross-classing in Spellcraft.
Choice is yours basically.
Ok then, lets see what you think now...
well done. i would have gone more monk, but this is a good way to go as well. it sounds like you really miss the spellcraft in this build. i would boost INT as you suggest, but that is my own skill-heavy preference.
-c
slept on it for a night christian and I think I prefer the 2 extra points in INT as well, giving you 20 cross-classed spellcraft points
Gives you a half decent Concentration Skill ranking, which you can boost through items, etc. and +4 to all saves versus spells. The only loss is 1 point of damage dealt.
Yep, think I prefer it like this.
Now can anyone see a way to get SCI-V into the build as well!
ED, EDR III, 648 HPs and good AC are gonna keep you alive for a long while. What this build is lacking is dmg output and UMD mainly, although HiPS will save your day more often than not. I've got a similar build with Rogue instead of SD and less fighter (since I was not going for EDR) and the sneak attacks and/or UMD do help a lot.
A nice build, you just have to get some good kamas with elemental dmg. If you want concealment you have to give up EDR and some FTR lvls and aim for Monk 18. So the question is, do you prefer EDR or concealment?
Cheers, Kail _________________ To hear the sound of Freedom, many gave their lives They fought for you and me Those memories will always live inside us, and now it's our time to be free
The revised build looks quite nice. I'm glad you didn't give up on this concept. I don't think damage will be such a horrible problem thanks to your epic specialization, but damage is always a relative weakness for dex characters.
In that vein, 600+ hitpoints and EDR 3 are both fine, fine additions to a dex character. Even without concealment you should be able to outlast many tough opponents. Rearranging the level split for empty body (say 19 monk 5 SD 16 fighter?) will cost you a lot of bonus feats but might be worth it in a more defense-oriented build, such as one designed for party tanking. _________________ Experience is the mother of good judgement; bad judgement is the father of experience.
Well, I'd say it's better now, me liking it, going Monk can also work, and Empty Body is sure a good idea, but I think that going for Self Concealment would be a totally different build, and should be made in a different topic.
