I have been experimenting with Cleric / Monk builds for quite a while and though they are some of the best builds around (in my opinion anyway ) - they can have high AC, have high ABs, plus with useful healing spells and buffs...

...the 3rd class in general doesn't affect the final outcome of the build TOO much as they have already been herded towards a goal with the first 2! 1 BAB base classes will give that often idealised 6th fisting attack, whereas Rogues can give Epic dodge but more importantly Uncanny Dodge II...

...However I think with the Dwarvern Deffender you almost get the best of both worlds...in other words: DEFENSIVE AWARENESS

Just to check that no-one had trod the ground before I did a little search and found:

the Self Reliant Monk

Not too bad a build, however this is focussed towards (in his own words):

1) To obtain max-dual wielding # of attacks
2) To require little or no magical equipment
3) To take the best advantage of the synergy of monk abilities (attacks, imp ev., etc), cleric AB buffs, and dwarven defender DR. My hope was that this would generate a fun to play, well-balanced character.

My goal however is to put a 3rd class to my 15 Cleric 6 Monk base build...damage reduction is just a handy little side affect...the main reason for DD levels is the Defensive Awareness & 1 base BAB.

So I introduce:

the Lord of the Holy Fist
Fully Playable 1-40 PvA...though the first few levels before you get Weapon Finesse can be tricky!

Warning this build has an XP penalty at lvls 5 & 6 AND from lvl 10 upwards.

RACE : Dwarf

ALIGNMENT :Any Lawful

ABILITIES :

Starting Stats Finishing Stats Ideally Buffed w. Items

STR: 8 8 20
DEX: 17 32 44
CON: 10 10 22
WIS: 17 18 30
INT: 12 12 12
CHA: 6 6 6

LEVELLING GUIDE :

01: Monk(1): dodge
02: Monk(2):
03: Monk(3): toughness
04: Monk(4): DEX+1, DEX=18
05: Cleric(1): domain earth, domain trickery
06: Cleric(2): weapon finesse
07: Cleric(3)
08: Cleric(4): DEX+1, DEX=19
09: Cleric(5): weapon focus: unarmed strike
10: Cleric(6)
11: Cleric(7)
12: Cleric(8): DEX+1, extend spell, DEX=20
13: Dwarven Defender(1):
14: Dwarven Defender(2):
15: Dwarven Defender(3): improved critical: unarmed strike
16: Dwarven Defender(4): DEX+1, DEX=21
17: Dwarven Defender(5)
18: Dwarven Defender(6): empower spell
19: Dwarven Defender(7)
20: Dwarven Defender(8): DEX+1, DEX=22
21: Cleric(9): epic skill focus: discipline*
22: Cleric(10)
23: Cleric(11)
24: Cleric(12): DEX+1, great dexterity I, DEX=24
25: Cleric(13)
26: Cleric(14)
27: Monk(5): great dexterity II, DEX=25
28: Monk(6): DEX+1, DEX=26
29: Cleric(15)
30: Dwarven Defender(9): great dexterity III, DEX=27
31: Dwarven Defender(10)
32: Dwarven Defender(11): DEX+1, DEX=28
33: Dwarven Defender(12): great dexterity IV, DEX=29
34: Dwarven Defender(13)
35: Dwarven Defender(14): epic weapon focus: unarmed strike
36: Dwarven Defender(15): DEX+1, great dexterity V, DEX=31
37: Dwarven Defender(16)
38: Monk(7)
39: Dwarven Defender(17): great wisdom I, WIS=18
40: Dwarven Defender(18): DEX+1, epic prowess, DEX=32

*You may wish to swap ESF:discipline for maybe Armor Skin or any other Epic feat of your choice.

ATTACKS :

61 / 58 / 55 / 52 / 49 / 46

27 BAB +11 Base Dex. Bonus +6 Fully Buffed Dex. Bonus +4 wf/ewf/ep +13 buffs (+5 Divine Favor, +2 Battletide, +1 Prayer, +1 Bless, +1 Aid, +3 Divine Power)

DAMAGE :

1-8 7th lvl Monk Fist -1 Base Strength Modifier +6 Fully Buffed Str. Bonus +7 Magical (Divine Favor + Battletide) +1 Prayer

Stunning Fist DC : 34

SAVING THROWS :

Fortitude: 26
Will: 30
Reflex: 29

+5 Bonus to saves vs. Spells due to 25 ranks in Spellcraft

SKILLS :

Base Ranks Ability Modified Value

Discipline 43 55
Spellcraft 25 26
Spot 4148
Tumble 40 51

ARMOR CLASS :

59

10 Base Armor Class +11 Dex. Bonus +6 Max. Buffed Dex. Bonus +5 Magical Vestament +4 Haste Item +4 Defensive Stance +4 Base Wisdom Bonus +6 Max. Buffed Wis. Bonus +8 Tumble +1 Generic Monk Bonus

this is when wearing a non-magical piece of clothing!

HIT POINTS :

672

216 18 lvls DwD 1d12 +56 7 lvls Monk 1d8 +120 15 lvls Cleric 1d8 +40 Toughness +240 Max. Buffed Con.

DAMAGE REDUCTION :

12/-

6/- lvl 10 DwD +3/- DwD lvl 14 +3/- DwD lvl 18

SPELLS :

Standard Daily Spells w. +12 to Wis. from ITEMS only

0th: 6 6
1st: 7 9
2nd: 7 9
3rd: 7 8
4th: 6 7
5th: 5 7
6th: 4 6
7th: 3 4
8th: 2 3

------

And there we go! If you wish you could use a Kama...though this would really detract away from the Fisting aspect of the build! Main advantage would be the ability to buff it, though without any dual-whielding feats you could only use one. The loss would be the inability to use the Deflect Arrows feat and Stunning Fist feat. Assuming NO Monk gloves are available, this is a major loss as you cannot easily recoup the loss of 5 AB & 5 damage + 7 + 2d6 fire damage from Darkfire...however with Divine Favor & Battletide granting Magical damage there ends little difference vs. Physically immune enemies...

People will probably ask why the 7 lvls of Monk rather than a 16th Cleric. This allows IKD to be gained as early as lvl 22 whilst still able to maximize tumble at lvl 37. As for choice of domains, these have to be my two favorite domains Stoneskin lvl 4 & Imp. Invis. / Energy Buffer lvl 5.
_________________
Grrr...hear my roar!!! Very nice AB, and that DEX also gives AC, but I can't forget to note the damage is not too high.

I would drop Dwarven Defender levels for Monk levels, at least 2 for improved evasion (although that DEX should give a fine reflex, you say you have only 29, which is not high) since you're already close to it, but also to increase damage on unarmed strike.... but you'll lose a feat.... so I think that using a kama gives you a better damage, you do lose stunning fist but you DC is not high anyway (27?).

While using a kama you can use also two kamas, change dodge, ESF, and either a great dex or toughness to get ambidexterity, TWF and ITWF, 2 more attacks per round at a cost of -2 AB (and the feats).

I would go for a Cleric 15/monk 9/DD 16, change dodge for ambidexterity, ESF for TWF and great dex for ITWF, you will also lose a feat, but if you lose 1 great dex for ITWF and the great dex of the lost feat you will end losing 1 AB and 1 AC (2 for dodge), but gain 2 APR and your kamas will deal more than your unarmed. (darkfire works really great, at least on low level and low magical environments) Dodge is a Dwarvern Defender pre-requisite feat, so you cannot really drop that

I quoted a lot of the stats with a +12 bonus to the abilities, however I did not put this in with the saving throws, so ALL saves would have +6 as well! I know a lot of people may not like posting with +12, however with empowered spells able to give +7 and defensive stance giving a few +4 this is not at all unreasonable in this build!

There is no point, apart from extra hit points, from having 16 DwD levels instead of 14, so if you wanted to put in some extra Monk levels, you could drop DwD by 4, putting 3 into Monk & 1 into Cleric: (Cleric 16, Monk 10, DwD 14) : this would give an extra 7th and 8th level spell, +10% speed bonus +1 AC & 1-12 Fisting Damage, losing 3/- damage reduction & 1 feat: Epic Prowess. Swap a Great Dexterity for Epic Prowess & another for Armor Skin and the only loss is 1 AB & 3/- DR
_________________
Grrr...hear my roar!!!
Quote: Posted 02/21/06 21:41:55 (GMT) -- krsboss

1-12 Fisting Damage


Sorry... Nice Monk/Cleric build anyhow. I think the level distribution is quite effective as it stands now. Improved Evasion sounds tempting, though
_________________
The world is grey, the mountain's old
The forge's fire is ashen and cold
No harp is wrung, no hammer falls
The darkness dwells in Druin's halls...

~ Summoning - Khazad-Dúm
Quote: Posted 02/21/06 06:33:50 (GMT) -- krsboss
1-8 7th lvl Monk Fist -1 Base Strength Modifier +6 Fully Buffed Str. Bonus +7 Magical (Divine Favor + Battletide) +1 Prayer
The damage is where he is weak. I generally prefer to take at least 16 monk levels for unarmed builds. Otherwise Kama is almost always better.

Quote: 
And there we go! If you wish you could use a Kama...though this would really detract away from the Fisting aspect of the build! Main advantage would be the ability to buff it, though without any dual-whielding feats you could only use one. The loss would be the inability to use the Deflect Arrows feat and Stunning Fist feat. Assuming NO Monk gloves are available, this is a major loss as you cannot easily recoup the loss of 5 AB & 5 damage + 7 + 2d6 fire damage from Darkfire...however with Divine Favor & Battletide granting Magical damage there ends little difference vs. Physically immune enemies...

Yes, the difference is that you can buff the kama, and the enhancement also counts towards damage, not just AB. Your fist damage is 1-8 vs. a kama's 1-6, but you can cast GMW (+5), Darkfire (1-6 + 9), and use a magical one (replace the +5 from GMW with whatever the max enhancement on the PW or Module is). If your PW has +10 gloves and kamas, the kama's add +10 to damage, the gloves do not (AB only). So you could be adding +10 physical, and 1-6 +9 fire damage compared to gloves for an average of 21.5 more per hit, fairly significant.

BTW, I am pretty sure you can still deflect arrows with a single kama (although not when dual-wielding). You can still use Stunning Fist by simply assigning a hotkey to switch between gloves and kama.

TM