This time I focused all my might into making it the most shadow a dragon can get, I don't care about the problems attaining it, this one is a Shadow Dragon, and if Death Attack doesn't makes it shadow, nothing will.
Alignment: Lawful Evil ----> Neutral Evil
This is the most painful part of the buld, a Monk has to be lawful, while the Druid has to be Neutral and the Assassin has to be Evil, so, the only way to do it, is start lawful evil as a Monk and change alignment into neutral evil to multiclass Druid at level 2, but let me tell you, this is awfully hard, you won't want to try to do it. I already did it and I don't want to do it again.
Playable levels: 2-40
Well, in fact, you're meat until level 6, but the Animal Companion will save you in those low levels.
Race: Human
STR 8 DEX 8 CON 8 WIS 18 (30) INT 17 (19) CHA 9
I know I shouldn't end with an odd-number in a status, but come on, there's nowhere else to place it (CHA is useless here) and a shapeshifted dragon doesn't buffs INT very well, if any.
1 Monk - Luck of Heroes, Toughness 2 Druid 3 Druid - Knockdown 4 Druid - WIS +1 (19) 5 Druid 6 Druid - Disarm 7 Druid 8 Druid - WIS +1 (20) 9 Druid - Empower Spell 10 Druid 11 Druid 12 Druid - WIS +1 (21), Improved Critical: unarmed strike 13 Druid 14 Druid - [Hide 8, Move Silently 8] 15 Assassin - Blind-Fight 16 Assassin - WIS +1 (22) 17 Assassin 18 Assassin - Improved Disarm 19 Assassin 20 Assassin - WIS +1 (23) 21 Assassin - Great Wisdom I (24) 22 Assassin 23 Assassin 24 Assassin - WIS +1 (25), Great Wisdom II (26) 25 Assassin 26 Assassin 27 Assassin - Great Wisdom III (27) 28 Assassin - WIS +1 (28), Epic Reflexes 29 Assassin 30 Assassin - Great Wisdom IV (29) 31 Assassin 32 Assassin - WIS +1 (30), Improved Sneak Attack I 33 Druid - Dragon Shape, [Spellcraft and Concentration 36] 34 Assassin 35 Assassin 36 Assassin - INT +1 (18), Epic Prowess 37 Assassin - Improved Sneak Attack II 38 Assassin 39 Assassin - Armor Skin 40 Assassin - INT +1 (19)
I'm not sure what UMD can do for a dragon, but he has it anyway, and I feel I have too many skills, even though that breakdown has a miss, because I didn't place 4 points on Hide and Move Silently at he first Monk level, and Druid had the 8 points halved.
Death Attack: 13d6 + 2d6 Improved Sneak Attack Naked Death Attack DC: 39 Assassin Spells: Ethereal Visage, Improved Invisibility, Invisibility and Darkness once per day (this can be casted while shapeshifted)
3 level 7 druid spells as usual
Advantages: Uncanny Dodge, strong Death Attack with regular DC, good AC, Evasion with regular saves.
Disadvantages: Low AB and HP
It should be really funny to cast Improved Invisibility in the middle of a fight, "where the heck did that dragon go?", big stuff don't tend to dissapear like that.
I think it's quite stronger than the last version, although it lost 2 AB (since the other has wrongly placed WF and EWF) and some HP, 15d6 death attack with 39 DC should make up for it.
Criticism time.
Edited By Thaxll'ssyllia on 02/27/06 23:14
Uh..... slight error there, HP should be 270.... I forgot to count in Toughness.
can we have stats in dragon form unless those *are* the stats in dragon form
*cringe*
if so... uninstall... jk
Edited By DarkInfernoo on 02/28/06 00:26
You should drop those Improved Sneak Attack feats. Unless it has been fixed without me knowing at all, they dont add damage to death attacks unless you also have Sneak Attack (eg Rogue or Blackguard levels).
LOL, sure, those are in dragon.
First, I found something that will improve AB, level 13 druid doesn't gives AB while level 7 Assassin does, so let me make a little change:
1 Monk - Luck of Heroes, Toughness 2 Druid 3 Druid - Knockdown 4 Druid - WIS +1 (19) 5 Druid 6 Druid - Disarm 7 Druid 8 Druid - WIS +1 (20) 9 Druid - Empower Spell 10 Druid 11 Druid 12 Druid - WIS +1 (21), Improved Critical: unarmed strike 13 Druid - [Hide 8, Move Silently 8] 14 Assassin 15 Assassin - Blind-Fight 16 Assassin - WIS +1 (22) 17 Assassin 18 Assassin - Improved Disarm 19 Assassin 20 Assassin - WIS +1 (23) 21 Druid - Great Wisdom I (24) 22 Assassin 23 Assassin 24 Assassin - WIS +1 (25), Great Wisdom II (26) 25 Assassin 26 Assassin 27 Assassin - Great Wisdom III (27) 28 Assassin - WIS +1 (28), Epic Reflexes 29 Assassin 30 Assassin - Great Wisdom IV (29) 31 Assassin 32 Assassin - WIS +1 (30), Improved Sneak Attack I 33 Druid - Dragon Shape, [Spellcraft and Concentration 36] 34 Assassin 35 Assassin 36 Assassin - INT +1 (18), Epic Prowess 37 Assassin - Improved Sneak Attack II 38 Assassin 39 Assassin - Armor Skin 40 Assassin - INT +1 (19)
Ok, with that, AB increases +1, so now is +24, not +23. It gets level 7 spells until epic, but the more AB the better.
Now, dragon stats (unbuffed with no items):
HP: 750 AC: 63 AB (in character sheet): +44 Kail taught me that the character sheet is not to be trusted when shapeshifted, so on a test attacking a combat dummy, it marks +48
I did show the saving throws on shapeshifted, check the second value up there, here it is again:
Saving Throws Fortitude 34 Reflex 39 Will 36
And just in case you don't know the basic dragon stats:
STR 48 DEX 38 CON 32 WIS no change INT no change CHA no change
True Seeing Damage Reduction (not sure how much) Immunity to: Mind Spells Paralysis Sneak Attack Increased fire Decreased cold
I think that makes it all.
Saosin777: Well, I don't know if that's fixed or not (I would hope for it to have been fixed), but Improved Sneak attacks are taken as bonus Assassin feats, and the only other choice is Great DEX, which has no use, since shapeshifting makes it 38. So there's no use in changing it, but it will change my damage for worse.
*You found out yourself that you could get 1 AB by going druid 12 preepic, well done.
*I would monk at 5th lvl to avoid cross classing hide and MS, netting you more skillpoints and making assassin available earlier.
*UMD helps a lot the build by giving you access to scrolls for buffs you do not have in your druidical selection.
*ISA does not stack with death attack unless you already have sneak attack from rogue or blackguard lvls. Since you are not left with much choice there, I suggest taking ESF: hide and MS.
*start with 8 CHA and 9 STR for extra carrying capacity when in human form.
*You probably count on getting your hands on fox's cunning scrolls to buff INT and so having an odd score makes some sense. Still I would start with 16 INT freeing up 3 points. You could put 1 into STR (going STR 10 considering the above change) and 2 into CON for extra HPs unshifted and increased survivability at lower lvls. Or otherwise leave STR at 8 and set CON at 12 for more extra HP. This is especially true if you can manage to cap your INT since capping would leave you with a useless odd score.
*Druid buffs can give you capped STR (empowered bull's STR, AoV, Blood frenzy) for +6 AB, +7 WIS for +3 AC, another +5 AC from Barkskin, elemental DR, stoneskin and GS for non dragon form, regeneration, summons and buffs for your companion, grease and entangle coupled with freedom of movement and more. Use your powers wisely and you'll fare good. Ultravison/darkness and II are your friends. Add in UMD to make use of clerical scrolls for buffing...nice!
* One more druid lvl would open up 8th lvl spells, which you can use to extend AoV. I think it's worth the cost of -1 DC on death attack.
*I suggest you to drop luck of heroes to make room for extended spell, very useful for your buffs.
*Dragon shape DR is 40/+6
* Put points either in listen or spot, not both. I question the usefulness of only 21 ranks in discipline, you're better off dropping it. UMD should be 41 or even 36 if you find you need skillpoints. Tumble should be 40 (only base ranks in multiples of 5 count). With that one more druid lvl to open up 8th lvl spell slots, you could set spellcraft at 41 for a final score of 45 and +1 to saves vs spells. Put points in search, set trap, disable trap, you won't regret it. You have access to them through assassin, don't waste the opportunity of having another ace up your sleeve. Some points in open locks is not a bad idea either.
*take the metamagic feats earlier in your career, at that point you'll need them more than your combat feats IMO.
A dragon with a good Death Attack. High sneak skills. Darkness/ultravision and II available. Able to set traps. Able to disarm its opponents. Now, that sounds cool! I think we've found a Shadow Dragon.
Cheers, Kail _________________ Wait for me Dragon, we'll meet in the sky By fire and magic, I'm sworn Hell is calling, we cannot be denied Fly to the blackness of the Storm
We must die to be reborn!
Edited By Kail Pendragon on 02/28/06 12:17
Hm, this is a mean Dragon, literally. I think you should lower INT, like Kail says to increase starting points. With 14 starting INT, and 1 point taken from CHA you have 8 points to play with, for CON, STR mostly. You really don't have the skillpoints to spare, so if you can manage to start with 16 INT, and putting 2 points eachto STR and CON then of course that would be best. Your stealth skills in DS is quite nice considering the high DEx, evn though you get a -8 size penalty. Your Death attack DC is a very nice 38 unbuffed. It would have a nice chance on some classes. Another thing worth noting is that your damage will be hifgher than what the sheet says because of +6 claws(right Kail?).
This is a very nice, and surely very FUN build. And even rare, I would think. I'm sure this is what would have happened had Grizz and Kail cooperated on a build.
PS, you won't need monk at lvl 1, so I second the motion to have it moved until lvl 5. _________________ I see the fear you have inside, you can run but never hide. I will hunt you down and tear you limb from limb.
I run the Pre-Epic Builders guild. Join and share your experience.
with Dragon TS do you even need listen or spot?
Of course taking Monk in level 5 is better, but wait a minute, have you seen the alignment? it took me like two hours to test a fail-proof legal way of changing my alignment to chaotic at level 1 (but I haven't found one to make it lawful), having Monk at level 5 would mean to start as druid neutral evil, change to lawful evil at level 4 for level 5, and go back to neutral evil in that same level! if you have a legal way of doing that in human time, let me know.
O.o Right, I took Luck of Heroes without noticing I didn't got Extended Spell.
Well, increasing Druid to 15 is ok for level 8 spells, but it would be at level 37 to gain spellcraft bonus I guess, the full penalties are -1d6 DA with -1 DC,
Thanks for the skills suggestions, I got confused with so many, I can't believe you think they're too little. I think it would be great to use a second level of Monk at level 40 (another DC less... crap) to take discipline to 43, but now that needs alignment change again......... but who cares? it's level 40, I'll have no problem by then.
The problem with the assassin bonus feats is: I don't really have choice, since ISA doesn't works, I only have great DEX (which is actually better now), for some reason I don't have any of the other to choose, I already got Epic Reflexes as bonus feat if you notice, I don't know what's MS, but I can't choose it, can't choose ESF either.
Quote: with Dragon TS do you even need listen or spot?
Um...... I don't think so........................ LOL
Edited By Thaxll'ssyllia on 02/28/06 17:19
MS stands for move silently, to be able to select ESF you must have already 20 base ranks in the skill you want to focus in. ESF: hide/move silently would compensate the mali you receive to your stealth skills because of size when in DS (-8). Great DEX is a waste for you, ESF would do some good instead.
I don't think skills are too little (altough they are much less then in PnP indeed) I think skill points are too little usually
Increasing druid lvls can be done or not done it is no biggy, just personal preference. AoV has a short duration so it's not a bad idea to extend it.
About the alignment change, it's easier to play it on good-evil axis then the lawful-chaotic. Start lawful neutral, become evil when you have to take assassin lvls, then do good deeds and get back to neutrality to pick druid lvls (which is just 2 times after you begin takin assassin lvls, 3 if you decide to go for druid 15). Much easier this way! You just need to play border line between neutral and evil and the trick is done, voilà!
Quote: I'm sure this is what would have happened had Grizz and Kail cooperated on a build.
lol I agree with Grim. It's a nasty dragon, well done Thax!
Cheers, Kail _________________ Wait for me Dragon, we'll meet in the sky By fire and magic, I'm sworn Hell is calling, we cannot be denied Fly to the blackness of the Storm
We must die to be reborn!
I don't understand what you mean with a "legal" way to change alignment. _________________ The world is grey, the mountain's old The forge's fire is ashen and cold No harp is wrung, no hammer falls The darkness dwells in Druin's halls...
~ Summoning - Khazad-Dúm
I believe he means an "in game" way to change it, without consolle commands.
A module may allow changing aligments for free, I don't see how anything can be called "illegal". Everything's for the builder to decide. His choice of words was poor Of course, if you're playing SP, and the module doesn't allow such alignment shifts, using the console can be understood as cheating. Even in this case, if the alignment change makes you enjoy your game more, who has the right to tell you you're not allowed to do that, that it's illegal? After all, it's your game and you payed for it (I hope)... each to his own, no?
Off topic and ranting, sorry. _________________ The world is grey, the mountain's old The forge's fire is ashen and cold No harp is wrung, no hammer falls The darkness dwells in Druin's halls...
~ Summoning - Khazad-Dúm
Nice build BTW, I remember I tried this when you posted about making a Shadow Dragon in Build Requests (IIRC). _________________ The world is grey, the mountain's old The forge's fire is ashen and cold No harp is wrung, no hammer falls The darkness dwells in Druin's halls...
~ Summoning - Khazad-Dúm
Yeah, I meant without using console commands, since I was making a full change of lawful to chaotic being level 1, you really can't get in a module and get alignmetn change for your deeds, you'll die for not leveling up first. I might take Kail's advice and go with evil/good alignmetn change, I actually made it like that the other time so that after the change was done there was no further change, but changing good/evil is much easier than lawful/chaotic.
Quote: to be able to select ESF you must have already 20 base ranks in the skill you want to focus in.
LOL, and I was thinking it wasn't my fault, it may be that I didn't see I got them because I might have skipped the skill distribution until the end when making the build, so I didn't really have 20 at the time, but a lot of points in reserve.
Quote: Nice build BTW, I remember I tried this when you posted about making a Shadow Dragon in Build Requests (IIRC).
I never got the memo , but yeah, I posted a little bit about multiclassing with Assassin.
Working on the changes now.
STR 8 DEX 8 CON 12 WIS 18 (30) INT 16 (18) CHA 8
You know, getting Assassin levels earlier has no use, it's better to get the buffs first, and you lose 1 AB if druid gets to 13 or Assassin gets to 9, so that should be the best, maybe some Assassin level in the middle to get earlier Tumble and UMD, but not really so decisive.
Saves should be the same -1 since now I don't have Luck of Hereos.
The second number representing what the character sheet says unshifted and the third while shifted (not sure how much use it has to tell you all that). Skills might still be improved, but it should stay very near to that.
You just need to play border line between neutral and evil and the trick is done, voilà!
Of course, if you're playing SP, and the module doesn't allow such alignment shifts, using the console can be understood as cheating. Even in this case, if the alignment change makes you enjoy your game more, who has the right to tell you you're not allowed to do that, that it's illegal? After all, it's your game and you payed for it (I hope)... each to his own, no? 
, but yeah, I posted a little bit about multiclassing with Assassin.