AB: +32/+27/+22/+17 (No Weapon), +35/+30/+25/+20 (With Greataxe)
Saves ..start/end
Fort: 0/32 Reflex: 1/25 Will: 3/33
You only missed to say the playable levels, PvP or PvM.
Whatever, a little bit disturbing leveling guide, the skills use too much space.
I would think Dev Crit is better than those Epic Toughness, but at the same time, HP is needed in a melee. Anyway, you're taking too much Epic Toughness, in fact, taking Great CON is better, because two great CON's give the same HP as two Epic Toughness and increase CON also gives Fortitude saves, and you can change the not-bonus feats on that.
I don't understand pretty well the Epic Energy Resistance, RP reasons? you could get something else in that place, just more HP might end up doing the same good against damage, no matter which.
Lower WIS to 14 to increase CON to 14 at the start, you don't need more than 14 WIS for paladin spells, and that will be a nice HP addition.
I think it would be better to level 1-20 as paladin, drop wis to 14 raise con to 14. No epic toughness! if you want HP use great con.
O.o
You get more spell slots with the wisdom. Since you are raising your charisma and everything else raises except dex with the RDD *shrugs* Ah, and yeah it was PvM.
As for the energy resistance, yes it was rather roleplay based, but also the server where I play my reasoning behind the build fit and worked against what exists in the world setting.
It was a build that worked for me, just figured I'd share it.
I dont mean to be picky, but race is NOT any. You clearly take HUMAN, so post it. Any other race and you have xp penalties through the wazoo! You also loose the extra feat at lv 1 AND skills throughout!
BTW, welcome to the guild. I think what the others are tryin to say is, use the format that we have posted to post your builds. It is quick, clean, easy for all of us oldies to follow! SOme of us are really really picky.
Edited By avado on 03/13/06 05:25
Hmm a few things!
1) As everyone else has said, lower Wis to 14 & raise either starting Con to 14, or Str to 16...You could also drop Dex to 8 as you have no reason by feats for having 12, you lose 2 AC though this would be redeemable via buffing spell/items...
2) You would be far better levelling 1-20 as Paladin, I know this means waiting to get your RDD levels, however you end up with the maximum 30 BAB...
3) If you have no Qualms with an XP penalty change the Sorceror 1 to Bard 2, also dropping a Paladin level...this would not only give you access to the Tumble skill for 8 AC, but also a bit of buffing with Bard-Song
4) You are a Paladin with 26 Charisma yet no great smite or even extra smiting, this may not be the best build to go as a dedicated smiter, however these feats are the main reason to have Charisma over 25! _________________ Grrr...hear my roar!!!
The format mate, the format! Use a clearer format giving an easier time to people looking at your build, the analisys of your build becomes that much easier.
This said, I agree that you should go for 14 starting WIS, lower starting CHA to 15, raise INT to 14 and CON to 12, put DEX to 8. Cat's Grace and/or DEX gear will easily give you the +2 AC you miss.
I agree also that going Pal 1-20 is not a bad idea at all. Your AB sucks now and you didn't even take Epic prowess, if I'm not mistaken.
You are missing tumble and spellcraft in your skill selection, taking RDD and sorcerer in epic would let you put more (not x-classed) ranks into spellcraft. 13 ranks in Taunt is just a waste. Heal 43 is ok when you have spare points, which is not your case.
I put together something fast along the lines I just gave, feat selection order can be improved. If you can do without Taunt, then drop starting INT at 12 and set CON at 14 for +40 HP/ +1 fort save. I suggest you to choose PfA and shield as your sorcerer 1st lvl spells, you can cast them before battle then don armour.
Paladin(29), Sorcerer(1), Gold Dragon Disciple(10) Human, LG Playable 1-40 PvM
Hitpoints: 498 (or 538 if starting CON is set at 14) Skillpoints: 222 (179 if starting INT is set at 12) Saving Throws (Fortitude/Will/Reflex): 32(33)/26/23 Saving Throw bonuses: Spells: +6, immune to fear and disease BAB: 30 AB (max, naked): 41 (melee), 30 (ranged) AC (naked/mundane armor/shield only): 19/30 (32 with 12 DEX through potions/gear) Spell Casting: Paladin(4),Sorcerer(1)
SKILLS Concentration 43(45), Discipline 43(50), Lore 8(11), Open Lock 1(0), Spellcraft 27(30), Taunt 43(51), Tumble 21(20), 14 points leftover (-43 if starting INT is set at 12)
LVLUP GUIDE 01: Paladin(1): Weapon Focus, Power Attack 02: Paladin(2): {Smite Evil} 03: Paladin(3): Cleave 04: Paladin(4): CHA+1, (CHA=16) 05: Paladin(5) 06: Paladin(6): Divine Shield 07: Paladin(7) 08: Paladin(8): CHA+1, (CHA=17) 09: Paladin(9): Divine Might 10: Paladin(10) 11: Paladin(11) 12: Paladin(12): CHA+1, Knockdown, (CHA=18) 13: Paladin(13) 14: Paladin(14) 15: Paladin(15): Blind Fight 16: Paladin(16): CHA+1, (CHA=19) 17: Paladin(17) 18: Paladin(18): Improved Critical 19: Paladin(19) 20: Paladin(20): CHA+1, (CHA=20) 21: Paladin(21): Epic Weapon Focus 22: Paladin(22) 23: Paladin(23): Armor Skin 24: Sorcerer(1): CHA+1, Extra Smiting, (CHA=21) 25: Red Dragon Disciple(1) 26: Red Dragon Disciple(2): (STR=16) 27: Red Dragon Disciple(3): Epic Prowess 28: Red Dragon Disciple(4): CHA+1, (STR=18), (CHA=22) 29: Red Dragon Disciple(5) 30: Red Dragon Disciple(6): Great Strength I, (STR=19) 31: Red Dragon Disciple(7): (CON=14) 32: Red Dragon Disciple(8): CHA+1, (CHA=23) 33: Red Dragon Disciple(9): Toughness, (INT=16) 34: Red Dragon Disciple(10): {Darkvision}, (STR=23), (CHA=25) 35: Paladin(24) 36: Paladin(25): STR+1, Great Smite I, (STR=24) 37: Paladin(26): Great Smite II 38: Paladin(27) 39: Paladin(28): Great Smite III 40: Paladin(29): CHA+1, Great Smite IV, (CHA=26)
Now you've got some decent AB and smiting capabilities. Together with your buffs this should make you a force to be reckoned with.
Cheers, Kail _________________ To hear the sound of Freedom, many gave their lives They fought for you and me Those memories will always live inside us, and now it's our time to be free
I agree also that going Pal 1-20 is not a bad idea at all.
hooray I was right
I used the format.
I guess I wont be posting anymore builds I have tested out since I am going to be told I am wrong. Sorry to have bothered. The Character worked as I made it in the server I was playing in. I only thought I would share the build. My Bad.
No, you were told what people think is wrong with the build, and given suggestion how to fix that. That's what they call constructive criticism - if that's not what you wanted, then yes, I suppose this isn't the place for you _________________ The world is grey, the mountain's old The forge's fire is ashen and cold No harp is wrung, no hammer falls The darkness dwells in Druin's halls...
Its generally a good idea for posting clarity is that posters indicate the class level in the leveling guide. This helps with the readability (ie. what class bonuses are provided at that level). For example
That's from the Posting Builds "FREE" Build Template, too. I guess we are very conservative here, but that's what we've found to work. _________________ The world is grey, the mountain's old The forge's fire is ashen and cold No harp is wrung, no hammer falls The darkness dwells in Druin's halls...
~ Summoning - Khazad-Dúm
I used that Format. I copy/Pasted THAT free format into notebook and filled out the build. Now perhaps there is a new format in the free thread on another page, I used the first one that was offered.
As for constructive criticism, I can deal with that, but when I say thanks, and state that the build worked for me I am continuously told it is "Wrong" and told to do it their way cause its the only way the build will work.
Thank you for the suggestions, the build I created however works very well from a Roleplay Epic Build from my standpoint however.
As for race, yes I made it with a human. But no where did it say "List Race Build is made with"
My reason for putting Any was because it can be built with any race. Forgive me if I misunderstood and was trying to clarify that any race can take it.
1. Paladin. Skills: Discipline, Lore, Heal. Feats: Power Attack, Toughness 2. Sorcerer. Concentration, Heal, Lore 3. Paladin. Discipline, Heal, Lore Feat: Cleave 4. Paladin. Discipline, Heal, Lore
the difference is obvious to me. The point is, basically, that using class levels is encouraged, and if you want to make a stat point allocation guide make it separately because it's confusing now.
As far as I can tell, 'tis not the same.
Quote: Thank you for the suggestions, the build I created however works very well from a Roleplay Epic Build from my standpoint however.
It may work well but it wasn't min/maxed, and that's what our members here did to it. It is obvious that any build works well for a certain roleplaying purpose, I can make a Sorcerer with 6 Charisma and say it's a good build because I roleplay it as a Sorcerer without any magical talent Besides, if you never specify your build's roleplaying context, how can you expect people to respect that?
As for the any race problem, the build is obviously different if you're using a Human or if you're using a Half-Orc. _________________ The world is grey, the mountain's old The forge's fire is ashen and cold No harp is wrung, no hammer falls The darkness dwells in Druin's halls...
And Must have at the Very Least the following 13 points
1 ..Build Name ..(Optional) but must have class levels in title 2 ..Race ..(Human, Dwarf, Elf etc) 3 ..Alignment ..(Lawful Good, Neutral etc.) 4 ..Starting Stats ..(Str, Dex, Con etc) 5 ..Leveling Guide 6 ..Ending Stats 7 ..Skill Point Distribution ..(Hide, Discipline, Spot, Tumble etc.) 8 ..HP ..(Hit Points) 9 ..AB ..(Attack Bonus) 10 .AC ..(Armour Class) 11 Saves ..(Fort/Reflex/Will) 12 Playable from level 1-40 or Straight level 40 13 PvM or PvP
(PvM = Player vs Module/Monster) (PvP = Player vs Player)
...
Just to be precise, indicating the race is a clearly stated requirement. Anyhow, I'm not here to be picky for its own sake. What I meant, and others with me, is that indicating the skills taken at lvlup makes the format "messy" and more difficult to read. Also indicating the class lvl is very useful for readibility issues. This is all. By consensus (not to say trial and error) the common format is the one that gives the best results (just check a couple of builds from the more experienced posters and you'll know what I mean... or "my" build posted here for the matter).
Format apart, I can easily believe this build worked for you where you play. This doesn't meat that it could not be made to work better. The lack of tumble ranks penalizes your AC, the lack of spellcraft ranks penalizes your saves, your AB is way low and higher AB is evidently better and so on. These are just truths about your build.
People here were just giving suggestions as to how possibly improve the build (and all the suggestions given were good ones). As Finn says, that's constructive criticism. No one here flamed you. The main reason I post my builds is to get this kind of feedback, so that I know which are the issues with my builds which I might be overlooking (altough maybe the build works, but again it could work better).
Also, no one told you you are wrong, I just saw fellow posters pointing out the weaknesses in your build and/or their view on possible improvements. All opinions were backed up with rational reasoning. In my case, I even posted a full build which shows the results obtained following those suggestions. If I were you I couldn't ask for anything more. If you wanted praises only, well, you have indeed come to the wrong place. As they say, if you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen...
Cheers, Kail _________________ Wait for me Dragon, we'll meet in the sky By fire and magic, I'm sworn Hell is calling, we cannot be denied Fly to the blackness of the Storm
We must die to be reborn!
Edited By Kail Pendragon on 03/13/06 20:15
Quote: 4) You are a Paladin with 26 Charisma yet no great smite or even extra smiting, this may not be the best build to go as a dedicated smiter, however these feats are the main reason to have Charisma over 25!
Even though you're right about that, he still has divine might and divine shield, non-smiting is also a way to play, although a powerful smite can deal awesome, sometimes, smiting can be easily avoided by PvPs, like, for example, try to smite a druid, he'll be neutral, so your smite is not being useful and you got powned by a dragon, alignment can be changed easily after level 40 too.
Quote: Besides, if you never specify your build's roleplaying context, how can you expect people to respect that?
Basically, you got the point.
I'll speak for myself, but I suppose someone else might agree. When I see a build and check where I can get it stronger, I just say it. "Epic Character Builders" guild sounds like we're trying to get builds to their max power, logical right? (noted that over level 21 they are epic characters anyway)
Be cool. Don't you want/like your character to be even stronger? And don't think you're the only guy recieving "wrongly made" feedback, it happens all the time to everybody, but you seem to have experience already, don't feel called "noob" because nobody here is giving that message.
The template is almost done, you're not being criticized like this guy: demo of a 100% incorrect build, anyway, welcome to the guild.
EDIT: Added the hyperlink, lol
Edited By Thaxll'ssyllia on 03/13/06 23:03
If you don't want feedback on how to improve your build, please post that in the initial post. People here give you suggestions on how to improve it, the words to use is: THANK YOU: I would be overjoyed to get this amount of feedback in a build. Noone says your wrong. Noone calls you noob. Noone says the build doesn't work. They give you suggestions on how THEY feel it could be improved. I thought this feedback would make you happy, instead you feel flamed?
Don't feel bad about your feedback, as it is goos.
Actually, for the format, you are right, it is correct. But don't include skillpoints in the level-up, just include your final skill-set. This is for readability-issues only.
Welcome to the guild. But remember, everyone here treat each other nice, if you feel otherwise, then don't use other forums..... _________________ I see the fear you have inside, you can run but never hide. I will hunt you down and tear you limb from limb.
I run the Pre-Epic Builders guild. Join and share your experience.
