I heard that this level combination was very effective in combat as due to Pale Master levels you can have high AC and Critical/Sneak Immunity, combined with very useful Cleric spells to boost your offensive capability.
That said I went out and build my own version of what seems a popular build, in fact a quick search reveals 4:
Click Here I have only given link to I...Sampus's build as he has a link to the other three!!!
Not sure about playability through the levels, but should do alright, mainly aimed for PvP but there is no reason why it shouldn't also shine in PvM
Another Lite-Can Cleric! cleric 20 / bard 4 / pale master 16 Playable 1-40 PvP & PvM
ABILITIES :
Starting Statistics final stats
Str - 16 24 Dex - 8 8 Con - 12 12 Wis - 16 19 Int - 14 14 Cha - 8 8
LEVELLING GUIDE :
01: Cleric(1): toughness, blind fight, domain trickery, domain magic 02: Cleric(2): 03: Cleric(3): weapon focus* 04: Cleric(4): WIS+1, WIS=17 05: Cleric(5): 06: Cleric(6): skill focus: discipline 07: Cleric(7): 08: Cleric(8): WIS+1, WIS=18 09: Cleric(9): combat casting 10: Cleric(10): 11: Cleric(11): 12: Cleric(12): WIS+1, extend spell, WIS=19 13: Cleric(13): 14: Cleric(14): 15: Cleric(15): knockdown 16: Cleric(16): STR+1, STR=17 17: Cleric(17): 18: Cleric(18): improved knockdown 19: Cleric(19): 20: Cleric(20): STR+1, STR=18 21: Bard(1): epic weapon focus 22: Bard(2): 23: Bard(3): 24: Pale Master(1): STR+1, improved combat casting, STR=19 25: Pale Master(2): 26: Pale Master(3): 27: Pale Master(4): epic prowess 28: Pale Master(5): STR+1, STR=20 29: Pale Master(6): 30: Pale Master(7): armor skin 31: Pale Master(8): 32: Pale Master(9): STR+1, STR=21 33: Pale Master(10): epic skill focus: discipline 34: Pale Master(11): 35: Pale Master(12): 36: Pale Master(13): STR+1, epic energy resistance: acid I & II**, STR=22 37: Pale Master(14) 38: Pale Master(15) 39: Pale Master(16): great strength I, epic spell: epic mage armor, STR=23 40: Bard(4): STR+1, STR=24
*for the purposes of this build I use a mace however any simple weapon would suffice, or martial/exotic if you were willing to sacrifice toughness or IKD for either weapon proficiency feat.
**one of the epic energy resistances is taken as your bonus Pale Master feat, with the second as a regular epic feat. It is possible to take improved combat casting as your bonus Pale Master feat, freeing up two epic feats for additional Great Strengths. This would result in 1 extra AB & Damage plus 1 to discipline skill, however I would much rather be able to 'whomp' pesky mages with Acid sheathes
Problems you may occur in levelling are that it takes a long time to get critical immunity & you have to wait to 40 to dump skills into disc. and tumble so for most of your midlife you are a little underpowered. There are a few dead levels as well (levels where you don't really get anymore powerful), however this isn't too bad as the level after will be nice
ATTACKS :
Using a non-magical weapon, eg. base starting gear: mace
59 / 54 / 49 / 44
25 BAB +7 Base Strength Bonus +2 Bull's Strength +4 wf/ewf/ep +5 Greater Magic Weapon +15 buffs (bless - 1 divine favor - 5, aid - 1, prayer - 1, divine power - 5, battletide - 2) +1 Bardsong
damage - 1-6 (crit x2) +9 base strength buffed with bull's strength +1-6 + 10 Fire damage from Darkfire +7 Magical damage from Divine Favor & Battletide +7 various Physical from GMW, Bardsong & Prayer
ARMOR CLASS :
From base starting gear for Cleric, ie. Studded Leather Armor & Small Shield!
68
10 Base Armor Class +8 Studded Leather buffed with Magical Vestament +6 Small Shield buffed with Magical Vestament +20 Epic Mage Armor 4 Undeath's Eternal Foe +8 Tumble -1 Dexterity Modifier +10 Pale Master levels +1 Mage Armor +2 Armor Skin
This isn't too shabby considering with Full Plate, Tower Shield and +4 buffs to Dexterity this would instantly be raised by 9, then having a permanent haste item would give another +4
0th Level: 6 - 6 x Resistance 1st Level: 7 - 2 x Bless 2 x Mage Armor* 3 x Divine Favor 2nd Level: 7 - 1 x Aid 1 x Bulls Strength 1 x Endurance 4 x Extended Divine Favor 3rd Level: 7 - 1 x Darkfire 1 x Magic Circle Against Alignment 1 x Negative Energy Protection 4 x Protection From Elements 4th Level: 7 - 1 x Death Ward 1 x Freedom of Movement 1 x Greater Magic Weapon 1 x Stoneskin* 3 x Extended Prayer 5th Level: 6 - 1 x Spell Resistance 1 x True Seeing 1 x Improved Invisibility 3 x Extended Divine Power 6th Level: 5 - 2 x Heal 3 x Extended Battletide 7th Level: 5 - 1 x Extended Greater Sanctuary 4 x Greater Restoration 8th Level: 5 - 5 x Mass Heal 9th Level: 5 - 2 x Undeath's Eternal Foe 3 x Extended Aura vs. Alignment
* these are bonus spells gained from Magic Domain ** these are bonus spells gained from Trickery Domain
Naturally these are only the spells I prefer to use. I see little point in using offensive spells when the DC is going to be too low for much real use so you have 3 complete sets of short term combat buffs (prayer, divine power, battletide & aura vs. alignment) and still decent healing power as well as the standard buffs.
HIT POINTS :
383 maxed no buffs
------------------------
Well folks that's about it, hope you enjoyed the read!!! In comparing it to the other 4 builds I would say that it would probably kill them all
Combat Medic - Combat Medic seems to be aimed as a dedicated healer with limited offensive casting...I wanted to focus more on the melee whilst still retaining a decent healing ability.
Priestess of the Damned - this build though it focusses towards melee as with mine, they went down the Dev. Crit. option. I decided against going for Dev. Crit. as I thought I could better spend 8 feats!!! Also I opted against going for Bard spells as well as I thought they would be easily dispellable and not really worth it as I already have Mage Armor from my Magic Domain. Overall I think this results in a better all round champion.
the Robust Reanimator - designed mostly as a support character with a small amount of DR, very handy in PMs, however lacks any real combat presence.
Archer Cleric - Offensive caster, nuff said!
Appolgies if my build is similar to any one else's that I haven't given credit to, I know it happens as the search engine isn't always updated that often. Generally this build is pretty good, could maybe tweaked a little towards your specific conditions, however!
Hope y'all enjoy
Edited By krsboss on 03/24/06 03:46
I'd drop CC/ICC for empower spell and Great WIS. You can cast in defensive casting mode to avoid AoO.
I'd get the metamagic feat in a little earlier and probably drop SF: discipline for IC.
War domain would give you Cat's Grace and AoV which are great spells for buffing, Mage Armor is no big deal since dodge AC is the only one stacking. Stoneskin and Icestorm are what I choose the magic domain for usually (plus Melf's Acid arrow at lower lvls).
ESF: discipline and the energy resistances are good choices for PvP, that plus the various protection from the elements spells should give you the protection you need from those nasty shields.
Epic Warding might be a better choice if +5 items are easily available.
PS: you forgot the base unbuffed AB and AC
Cheers, Kail _________________ Wait for me Dragon, we'll meet in the sky By fire and magic, I'm sworn Hell is calling, we cannot be denied Fly to the blackness of the Storm
We must die to be reborn!
I agree with Kail on all his points.
Not sure if you read the adjusted final version of the Priestess of the Damned, the reason being that Dev Crit and all its pre-reqs were dropped.
Some comments:
Take -Raise Wisdom to 20 as it gives you an extra 1st and 5th level spell and 1 point to Will Save and Cleric Spell DCs. -Epic Warding? Drop an Epic Acid Res at 36th for a Great Strength and then take Epic Warding at 39th. -Maybe swap Heal Ranks for Taunt to give you the chance of another 6 AB in melee, and 30% spellcasting failure if successful -Skill Focus Discipline - Dropping this would still give you 60 points in DIS (unbuffed), I would consider replacing with Silent Spell or Imp Crit. I agree keep the ESF: Discipline -Magic Domain? - your Spell Penetration is very low, despite Melf's Acid Arrow and Ice Storm having no save. Their effectiveness, particularly at higher levels may be reduced. Although the benefit from Stoneskin is useful, see Kail's comment about Mage Armor. -Your 68 AC will only last 20 rounds before dropping back to 60. Undeath's Eternal Foe can't be Extended as it is a 9th level spell. You will find this can get very frustrating. -Studded Leather Armor and Small Shield? WHY? You are a Divine Caster, able to cast in Heavy Armor and with a Tower Shield without spell failure.... . You have no Uncanny Dodge, so any bonus to your DEX (ie. taking it above 13 points will be lost if flatfooted immediately).
Overall differences:
Lite-Can Cleric HP +27 points Discipline +13 points higher Fort +1 higher Reflex +1 higher Acid Damage Reduction 10/ extra Improved Invisibility Rogue skills (low duration when using Domain Ability) Extra +1 save against Spells (Spellcraft)
Priestess of Damned Taunt 44 Will +1 higher Epic Warding Aura of Vitality (not included in capped AB calc. - this is Extendable to 40 rounds and party benefit) Battle Mastery (not included in capped AB calc) AC 70 (80 with 3 Undeaths eternal Foe casts) Extra 1st and 5th level cleric spell Travel Domain swapped out for Trickery in PWs with perma Haste - no difference really. Melee Weapon Crit Range 15-20/ x2 (unbuffed and non-magical) Able to use all Martial Weapons
AB Calc fully buffed
25 base 13 from str (36 str with +12 from items/buffs) 3 epic weapon focus 1 epic prowess 5 divine power 5 divine favor 2 battletide 1 bless 1 aid 1 prayer 5 greater magic weapon -------- +62/+57/+52/+62/+62 (attacks with divine power and haste)
battle mastery and bard song will boost ab, but since it already hits the +20 cap, it won't add anything else. Damage and other goodies from those abilities are still nice though.
In combat tests in the Novice to Epic Mod, this really does not need any more equipment apart from Full Plate, Tower Shield and a melee weapon (all mundane), with the exception of an Amulet of Natural Armor and Dodge Bonus AC. In worlds where +5 and higher equipment is readily available then I would seriously consider dropping PM levels to 10 and taking a further 6 in Cleric. You gain 2 epic Cleric Feats, undispellable buffs unless MD'd, improved Spell Penetration, improved bonus to Battle Mastery Domain ability, longer duration of all spells cast. Sadly you would lose Epic Warding.
The Stuuded Leather and Small sheild were NOT a reccomendation all the above Stats are displayed from the base starting gear of a Cleric, that is a Mace, Studded leather & small shield...
I just assume that people were NOT going to be wearing base gear, even non-magical Plate Mail, maybe it would have been more helpful to post it with the extra AC though
My 68 AC was with one UEF only! So after 20 rounds goes back down to 64, with Full Plate & Tower Shield this goes up to 75 with UEF...
Edited By krsboss on 03/24/06 20:42
I've seen these builds floating around a bit... I don't quite get them. You don't add spells to bard with palemaster, right? So you're using PM for AC, immunity to crits, and epic arcane spells. Is that about the size if it?
Yes it is. If you ask me, that's a long list of nice stuff
BTW, Pale Master does add spell slots, but you don't learn new spells with it. _________________ "Ever notice how wizards think all life in the Realms dances on their hands and lasts from day to day only because they work constantly to keep us all alive? How do they think we survive when they're in the bathroom?"
~ Volo
No arguments, it just hurts my brain to miss out on the extra spell levels. Good to know about slots, though.
EDIT: Wait, wait, wait. How does bard 4 fulfill the palemaster level 3 arcane requirements? Is it some "trick the computer with arcane spells & 3 level divine spells?" thingy?
No arguments, it just hurts my brain to miss out on the extra spell levels. Good to know about slots, though.
EDIT: Wait, wait, wait. How does bard 4 fulfill the palemaster level 3 arcane requirements? Is it some "trick the computer with arcane spells & 3 level divine spells?" thingy?
Mmmm, actually it's either incorrect documentation OR engine bug (doubtfully the latter, most likely the former). You can take palemaster with 3 _class_ levels of an arcane castser...
Bard 3 (4 for skill dump) is to access pale master levels...pale master levels are to give crit & sneak immunity +15 AC
Bard is preferable to Wizard as you have access to Taunt, Tumble & UMD!
though this description is slightly ambiguous, Arcane Spellcasting: Level 3 or higher DOES NOT state that it is level 3 SPELLS, merely lvl 3 spellcasting...maybe as in caster level! _________________ Grrr...hear my roar!!!
That's generally accepted to mean level 3 spells or higher.
The requirement is 3 lvls in an arcane spellcasting class.
Quote: Posted 03/30/06 04:17:57 (GMT) -- krsboss
Bard 3 (4 for skill dump) is to access pale master levels...pale master levels are to give crit & sneak immunity +15 AC
It's +10 AC for PM level 16. _________________ "Ever notice how wizards think all life in the Realms dances on their hands and lasts from day to day only because they work constantly to keep us all alive? How do they think we survive when they're in the bathroom?"
~ Volo
Quote: Posted 03/24/06 03:44:48 (GMT) -- krsboss
39: Pale Master(16): great strength I, epic spell: epic mage armor, STR=23
Bone Skin From NWNWiki Type of Feat: Class
Prerequisite: Pale Master 1
Specifics: The character gains an innate +2 bonus to their AC at 1st, 4th, 8th, 12th, 16th, 20th, 24th, and 28th levels.
----> 10 AC from Boneskin, +5 Dodge from Epic Mage Armor Assuming of course that you have access to items with +5 or greater bonusses to Natural, Deflection & Armor AC
Use: Automatic
K, I know that up until now, we could all make pms with 3 class lvls of an arcane class! It seems that this has changed. We now have to have 3rd lvl spells Can anyone else verify or disprove this statement? This means that all our lovely cleric bard pms must be changed!!! *tears*
Are you using 1.66 or 1.67 ???
I have not updated anything and am having no problem making PMs with 3 levels of wiz/bard/sorc!
This could be a new implementation...or maybe just on the servers you are playing!
Quote: Posted 04/05/06 16:12:19 (GMT) -- avado
K, I know that up until now, we could all make pms with 3 class lvls of an arcane class! It seems that this has changed. We now have to have 3rd lvl spells Can anyone else verify or disprove this statement? This means that all our lovely cleric bard pms must be changed!!! *tears*
No worries, it's not changed. Sons was going by the manual's description. _________________ It's rogue, dammit, ROGUE!!!
It's not quite what I meant. I have always had no troubles at all using the 3bard qualifier, but when a question was asked in another older build recently, pm would not open for me at wiz3! I am no slouch at building, and it would not open! It wouldnt open until lv 5, that means 3rd lv spells! I am not sure why this is, but it occured! I am not sure what patch i have, though i do play online exclusively, cept for the lvler i use to test builds, which has not changed! I will check again tonight.
however any simple weapon would suffice, or martial/exotic if you were willing to sacrifice toughness or IKD for either weapon proficiency feat.
. You have no Uncanny Dodge, so any bonus to your DEX (ie. taking it above 13 points will be lost if flatfooted immediately).
all the above Stats are displayed from the base starting gear of a Cleric, that is a Mace, Studded leather & small shield...
Assuming of course that you have access to items with +5 or greater bonusses to Natural, Deflection & Armor AC
Can anyone else verify or disprove this statement? This means that all our lovely cleric bard pms must be changed!!! *tears*
Are you using 1.66 or 1.67 ???
It's not quite what I meant. I have always had no troubles at all using the 3bard qualifier, but when a question was asked in another older build recently, pm would not open for me at wiz3! I am no slouch at building, and it would not open! It wouldnt open until lv 5, that means 3rd lv spells! I am not sure why this is, but it occured! I am not sure what patch i have, though i do play online exclusively, cept for the lvler i use to test builds, which has not changed! I will check again tonight.