Playable PvM (1-40), PvP (only against Blackguard builds though)
This Paladin doesn't fight by the Tormist Code, she doesn't even fight with a moral code... and has a one track mind 'If it's evil... I will kill it. Period.'
Also, I noticed a build by Saosin777 that is also a Rog/Pally/HS with the same levels even but it was a Dex based, dual-wielder and my Blancheguard is completely different. It’s nice to know that I’m not the only one with this idea though. .
Race: Human Alignment: Lawful Good Class: Rog 19/ Pally 16/ HS 5 ST 14 DX 8 CO 10 WI 14 IN 14 CH 16 (34)
Level Class Notes 1 Rog 1 Knockdown, Power Attack 2 Pal 1 3 Pal 2 Iron Will 4 Pal 3 5 Pal 4 6 Pal 5 Divine Shield 7 Rog 2 8 Pal 6 9 Pal 7 Divine Might 10 Pal 8 11 Pal 9 12 Rog 3 Imp KD 13 Pal 10 14 Pal 11 15 Pal 12 Alertness 16 Pal 13 17 Rog 4 18 Pal 14 Cleave* 19 Pal 15 20 Pal 16
Epic Level Class Notes 21 HS 1 Great Cha I, II 22 HS 2 23 HS 3 24 HS 4 Great Cha III 25 Rog 5 26 Rog 6 27 Rog 7 Great Cha IV 28 Rog 8 29 Rog 9 30 Rog 10 Great Cha V, Crippling Strike* 31 Rog 11 32 Rog 12 33 Rog 13 Great Cha VI, Imp Evasion 34 Rog 14 35 Rog 15 36 Rog 16 Great Cha VII, Slippery Mind* 37 Rog 17 38 Rog 18 39 HS 5 Great Cha VIII, Armor Skin (Max UMD, Tumble and Discipline) 40 Rog 19 Imp Sneak I
Advantages
Has a BAB of 31 and 4 attacks per round. Can use almost anything with her insanely high UMD. Can IKD then Sneak Attack opponents that aren’t resistant. Or Divine Might ones that are. Has a small but powerful arsenal of Paladin spells. Great against spells.
Disadvantages
Low AC… will take damage (I maxed out Heal on my build to compensate.) Low HP. A bit of a tweener… not a front line fighter but not a true Rogue either. And the biggest weakness… she’s LG!!!
* Non-Crucial Feat (chosen for RP reasons)
Edited By Kail Pendragon on 10/10/07 14:00
You should probably divert a fair amount of your Charisma into your Strength to bring up your Attack Bonus. As it is you won't be able to hit much at level 40 even with buffs from the paladin classes. I generally shoot for 35 or better, before buffs.
Also you can't have a BAB of 31, so I'm assuming you mean that's the modified attack bonus, including strength and feats. When you make your character description, it would be nice if you listed the things that you're including in your cummulative scores, as well as the true unmodified BAB.
Edited By Ythaniel on 04/20/06 04:36
Also in the build template we like to include the actual AC, buffed and unbuffed. Along with Saving throws and skills. Otherwise its hard to give feedback. Thanks.
Epic Build Template
Yes, please check the link Ythaniel gave you (also in my signature) and PM me all the missing information, I'll make the edit for you. You should know what I mean, you have two builds already in the index.
About the build: you are missing the WF feats (-3 AB) and EP (-1 AB). All that CHA is way too much, I agree. Drop some great CHA to make room for the said feats and blind fight or toughness or extra smites. Ending CHA at 30 is already more than enough IMO. I'd drop Iron will too for another pick among these feats also.
Starting CON 10 is way low, I'd start with CHA 15, CON 12 at least.
Instead of Slippery mind and Improved sneack attack I'd get two Epic skill foci, or one Epic skill focus and skill mastery. I'd consider Crippling strike a must, not a non crucial feat like you do.
Actually I'm not sure what HS brings to the table in this build. You are missing some essential feats preepic and taking more Great CHA than really necessary in epic, saves are already good by themselves, you already have UMD and tumble (plus a lot more) as class skills for rogue. CoT would probably be a better choice (sinergy with paladin and bonus feats in a feat starved build) or even Fighter for WS/EWS if the XP penalty is not an issue (and with proper lvling you can delay it into the epic lvls).
Cheers, Kail
Edited By Kail Pendragon on 04/20/06 09:46
Iron Will is a pre-req for Harper Scouts. As for what they can bring to this build, they have a stackable Cats Grace and Eagles Splendour, which is of great use.
Nice concept overall. I'll have to look more closely when I have some time. I'd be tempted to take Pally to 19 to get more spells though.
Either way it looks fun
Why do I always forget Iron Will is a HS prereq? *bangs head on the wall*
True for the stackability, Aura of Glory + 2 Eagle's Splendor will even cap CHA. Dex is less of an issue if wearing plate. Still I see the build as feat starved.
Paladin 19/Rogue 16 is better than Paladin 16/Rogue 19 also IMO, paladin's spell selection is small but full of useful spells.
Cheers, Kail _________________ To hear the sound of Freedom, many gave their lives They fought for you and me Those memories will always live inside us, and now it's our time to be free
Edited By Kail Pendragon on 04/20/06 14:28
This build wont hit those hardass creatures very as many others alrdy pointed at. so i guess dropping those Great Cha feats, atleast 4 of em and spending those on Great Smite instead, this will allow u to get a high ab blow with the divine dmg from all your buffs. The con doesnt necceserry have to go higher as the ac will b high enough with the divine shield + gear. whitch means the foes will not hit that often as they would without that ac and then, a good con would b to prefer. anyway, nice build
I just have to say I like the build concept, but I love the name! _________________ Where I'm playing now: World of Greyhawk.
Just remember to make her female, eh? _________________ "And one calculates time from the dies nefastus on which this fatality arose – from the first day of Christianity! – Why not rather from its last? – From today? – Revaluation of all values!"
With the HS pre-req feats, there's not much to do, HS really works well with a paladin, I've tested it, you buff CHA to max easily, +6 saves, divine damage and AC.
However, I agree you take too much Great CHA feats, you get more bonus for WF, EWF and EP for the very least, Blind-Fight and Armor Skin would be good too, you need as much AB as you can get, since your damage with sneaks and divine is already good, I would also start CHA 14 CON 14......
There's a slight error on the skills part at level 39, UMD and Tumble should be taken with Rogue, since, HS doesn't gets UMD, and Skill dump on level 39 even though you can take Tumble with Rogue is just wrong, for discipline it's OK.
I don't understand this:
Quote: PvP (only against Blackguard builds though)
You don't have bonuses against Blackguards, only one smite, and no Great Smiting while you're at it.
Yeah, I like it.
WOW! My head is spinning from all the suggestions. As I said I've only tested this angiast some of my friends Blackguard builds and it will not be able to kill high AC monsters (but utilizing UMD for some No Save spells like Bigsy's and IGMS could compliment that.
All that CHA... 34 isn't that much, is it?
I'm currently reworking the build with the Template and I will see how well it works as a Smiter.
Thanks for all the comments, complaints and suggestions... and yes, I love the name too.
34 is a lot without enchancing items or spells. Sure it gives you +12 divine damage when using Divine Might, or +12 AC with Divine Shield, but the main problem is not being able to hit things because your AB is much too low. If you boost your strength instead of your charisma, you get more damage AND more AB. Being able to hit consistently is more important than damage overall, because if you can't hit you can't do damage at all.
Edited By Ythaniel on 04/21/06 16:34
I consider 26 enough, being the first even number after the requirement for great smite. I wouldn't go past 30.
In your build I'd drop 4 CHA points at least, even more to make room for great smites too if going Paladin 19 (which grants you more spells btw).
Cheers, Kail _________________ To hear the sound of Freedom, many gave their lives They fought for you and me Those memories will always live inside us, and now it's our time to be free
Edited By Kail Pendragon on 04/21/06 18:11
Quote: Posted 04/21/06 16:34:05 (GMT) -- Ythaniel
34 is a lot without enchancing items or spells. Sure it gives you +12 divine damage when using Divine Might, or +12 AC with Divine Shield,
I'm sorry, but you won't. Divine damage will be +12, even +18 with max boost to CHA. Divine shield is for some reason capped at +11.
I too, stop increasing CHA afetr reaching 26, rarely will you benefit from more than that instead of going STR. Sorcerers not counting. _________________ Dragonlance ROH is back, better than before! and I spend a little time here WoG Thanks for pointing that out, Grimnir, even though I wasn't advocating actually using that high of a CHA score. Must be some sort of a bug. *shrugs*
The problem with your CHA is not "exactly" that it's too high, is that you take Great CHA feats when there are better epic feats to consider (and of course the low STR).
Quote: Divine shield is for some reason capped at +11.
It is? so then the Character Sheet is lying to us again? I was sure my Paladin/BG/HS could buff over that, but never tested my AC in combat nor anything.
Divine Shield is not capped at any value, but Dodge AC is capped at +20 and Divine Shield is Dodge AC _________________ "And one calculates time from the dies nefastus on which this fatality arose – from the first day of Christianity! – Why not rather from its last? – From today? – Revaluation of all values!"
Now that is reasonable...
Divine Shield is not capped at any value, but Dodge AC is capped at +20 and Divine Shield is Dodge AC
Test. Last I did, I couldn't raise my AC more than 11 with it. I don't remember if that was the sheet or the debug. It might have been an earlier patch, but I am most certain it was not. _________________ I see the fear you have inside, you can run but never hide. I will hunt you down and tear you limb from limb.
I run the Pre-Epic Builders guild. Join and share your experience.
Divine Shield is not capped at any value, but Dodge AC is capped at +20 and Divine Shield is Dodge AC
Test. Last I did, I couldn't raise my AC more than 11 with it. I don't remember if that was the sheet or the debug. It might have been an earlier patch, but I am most certain it was not.
I checked the spellscript and there was nothing. _________________ "And one calculates time from the dies nefastus on which this fatality arose – from the first day of Christianity! – Why not rather from its last? – From today? – Revaluation of all values!"
A couple of fellows on my server had tested it, and read about it in the NwN forums. I tested it myself 2 minutes ago, no cap that I could see.
So disregard. _________________ I see the fear you have inside, you can run but never hide. I will hunt you down and tear you limb from limb.
I run the Pre-Epic Builders guild. Join and share your experience.
Divine Shield is not capped at any value, but Dodge AC is capped at +20 and Divine Shield is Dodge AC :P
Test. Last I did, I couldn't raise my AC more than 11 with it. I don't remember if that was the sheet or the debug. It might have been an earlier patch, but I am most certain it was not.
I've tested it, and I can get +16 from CHA bonus (I could probably get more, but that's as high as my CHA goes). What's probably going on with the +11 here is you already have +4 dodge bonus from haste and another +5 from Epic Mage armor. That's 9/20, leaving +11 towards the cap. _________________ Vulcano's Bard Studio (in beta, 1.67). *Updated* Compose, play, and save your own bard music dynamically in game!
divine shield is dodge ac and dodge ac stacks but is capped at +20 what was pointed out already. remember that haste (+4ac) is also dodge ac and counts towards the cap.
.
Why do I always forget Iron Will is a HS prereq? *bangs head on the wall*
I just have to say I like the build concept, but I love the name!
Thanks for pointing that out, Grimnir, even though I wasn't advocating actually using that high of a CHA score. Must be some sort of a bug. *shrugs*
The problem with your CHA is not "exactly" that it's too high, is that you take Great CHA feats when there are better epic feats to consider (and of course the low STR).