Castle Trizkan, a man appears at the gate....

Guard: "No one can enter the castle."
Man: "Nevertheless, I need to go inside, I bring an important message for King Richard."
The guard pulls out his sword and shield, and changes to combat mode: "Yeah, sure, I said nobody crosses this place, now you die."
The guard attacks the man, but was unable to hit him, the man just hits lightly the guard's armor and crossed to the other side.
Guard: "You won't escape you... you... what? My body, I can't move!"
Man: "Don't panic, you will be able to move in a few hours, or die, either one of those, but I will be long gone by then."
The man enters the castle.

-"But Your Majesty, we could forge an alliance, there is no need to kill thousands of innocent lives."
King Richard: "I said that my army will assault the capital and that is how it will be, Generals, you have your orders."

Suddenly, the door to the King’s Hall opens drastically.

King Richard: "What is this!? I ordered no one to be let inside, I'm busy."
Man: "I'm sorry, but I couldn't wait."
King Richard: "Who the hell are you an what the hell do you want?"
Man: "My name is not of importance, I'm only a messenger, King Remulan has sent me, to avoid the needless killing of your army, he would like to end this matter peacefully."
King Richard: "That bastard, always thinking he can win, ha ha."
Man: "What is your answer?"
King Richard: "Easy, kill this man and send his dead body as an answer, if that's not clear enough, send a note that says: "You're going to die"."
Man: "A pity you have chosen that..."

The Generals take their weapons out and start an attack against the man. The man wasn't just a messenger though.... with a single hit, every general fell, as their bodies stop responding...

King Richard: "No way... You’re an assassin aren't you? But I won't get killed" Draws out an enormous sword.
Man: "An assassin? don't try to put names to my technique, my fighting style is more art than assassination, let me prove it personally." with a quick jump falls over King Richard and the effect was the same, King Richard couldn't even blink.
King Richard: "I'm not dead!?"
Man: "No, that was not my death hit, only my stunning fist, but if death is what you seek, you might want to feel the cold death of a Quivering Palm!" He hits King Richard.

The man draws out a piece of paper: "Hmmmm, 1.Climb a mountain, check, 2. Do laundry, check, 3. Kill King Richard, check, 4. Brag about it, next step on the list. 5. Finish homework, nah, that can wait."

---------------
Stunning Claw

Druid 16 / Monk 6 / Champion of Torm 18

Oh well, I wanted a character with a stunning fist DC real high, but turned out to be crappy, low damage and AB, so my choice is dragon shift of course, that way it's easier to pump up WIS and keep decent AB, AC and damage. Also that I like dragons.

Alignment: Lawful Neutral

Race: Elf

Playable levels 1-40

Playability could be off a little, it won't be particularly strong from around level 15 until dragon shape... it's actually a level 40 build.

PvM, untested PvP

Stats:
STR 8
DEX 18 (19)
CON 8
WIS 18 (32)
INT 10
CHA 10

Leveling:

1 Druid1 - Blind-Fight
2 Monk1
3 Druid2 - Extend Spell
4 Monk2 - DEX +1 (19)
5 Druid3
6 Monk3 - Empower Spell
7 Druid4
8 Monk4 - WIS +1 (19)
9 Druid5 - Weapon Focus: kama
10 Druid6
11 Druid7
12 Druid8 - WIS +1 (20), Improved Critical: unarmed strike
13 Druid9
14 Druid10
15 Druid11 - Toughness
16 Druid12 - WIS +1 (21)
17 Druid13
18 Druid14 - Extra Stunning Attacks
19 Druid15
20 Champion of Torm1 - WIS +1 (22)
21 Champion of Torm2 - Great WIS I (23), Great WIS II (24)
22 Champion of Torm3
23 Champion of Torm4 - Great WIS III (25)
24 Champion of Torm5 - WIS +1 (26), Great WIS IV (27)
25 Champion of Torm6 - Improved Stunning Fist I
26 Champion of Torm7
27 Monk5 - Improved Stunning Fist II
28 Champion of Torm8 - WIS +1 (28), Improved Stunning Fist III
29 Champion of Torm9
30 Champion of Torm10 - Improved Stunning Fist IV, Improved Stunning Fist V
31 Champion of Torm11
32 Champion of Torm12 - WIS +1 (29)
33 Champion of Torm13 - Improved Stunning Fist VI
34 Champion of Torm14 - Improved Stunning Fist VII
35 Champion of Torm15
36 Champion of Torm16 - WIS +1 (30), Improved Stunning Fist VIII*
37 Champion of Torm17
38 Champion of Torm18 - Great WIS V* (31)
39 Druid - Dragon Shape**
40 Monk - WIS +1 (32)

* Unsure is one of these should be changes for Epic Prowess.
** Taken late for skilldump.

Skills:
Discipline 43
Spellcraft 40
Tumble 40

Saving Throws (unshifted / shifted)
32 / 45
34 / 43
43 / 43

HP: 316
AC: 34
BAB: 25
AB: +24

9 Stunning Fists per day
Stunning Fist DC: 57 (61 with Owl's Insight, 63 max)

I would do anything to increase my CHA, since Divine Wrath gives +7 AB, divine damage and saves, but unbuffed I cannot even use it.

I really don't intend to make the whole "Dragon stats", Druid buffs and stuff, I suppose you all know them.

Advantages: Real hard to resist stunning fist, good AC and HP, as any dragon, very high saves.

Disadvantages: XP penalty from level 10 forward, not very high AB.

Now don't even think about reminding me of paralysis immunities, they are evil I say.

Feedbacks... I like this build its unusual. Not many builds will be saving against stunning fist. The AB is nice once you use divine wrath (+59 I think, and in wilderness areas). Considering that most builds will fail their save aginast stunning fist I recommend replacing one of the improved stunning fist feats for EP or AS.
Quote: Posted 04/27/06 23:13:43 (GMT) -- Thaxll'ssyllia
---------------
Stunning Claw

Druid 16 / Monk 6 / Champion of Torm 18

Oh well, I wanted a character with a stunning fist DC real high, but turned out to be crappy, low damage and AB, so my choice is dragon shift of course, that way it's easier to pump up WIS and keep decent AB, AC and damage. Also that I like dragons.

Alignment: Lawful Neutral

Race: Elf

Playable levels 1-40

Playability could be off a little, it won't be particularly strong from around level 15 until dragon shape... it's actually a level 40 build.

PvM, untested PvP

Stats:
STR 8
DEX 18 (19)
CON 8
WIS 18 (32)
INT 10
CHA 10

Leveling:

1 Druid1 - Blind-Fight
2 Monk1
3 Druid2 - Extend Spell
4 Monk2 - DEX +1 (19)
5 Druid3
6 Monk3 - Empower Spell
7 Druid4
8 Monk4 - WIS +1 (19)
9 Druid5 - Weapon Focus: kama
10 Druid6
11 Druid7
12 Druid8 - WIS +1 (20), Improved Critical: unarmed strike
13 Druid9
14 Druid10
15 Druid11 - Toughness
16 Druid12 - WIS +1 (21)
17 Druid13
18 Druid14 - Extra Stunning Attacks
19 Druid15
20 Champion of Torm1 - WIS +1 (22)
21 Champion of Torm2 - Great WIS I (23), Great WIS II (24)
22 Champion of Torm3
23 Champion of Torm4 - Great WIS III (25)
24 Champion of Torm5 - WIS +1 (26), Great WIS IV (27)
25 Champion of Torm6 - Improved Stunning Fist I
26 Champion of Torm7
27 Monk5 - Improved Stunning Fist II
28 Champion of Torm8 - WIS +1 (28), Improved Stunning Fist III
29 Champion of Torm9
30 Champion of Torm10 - Improved Stunning Fist IV, Improved Stunning Fist V
31 Champion of Torm11
32 Champion of Torm12 - WIS +1 (29)
33 Champion of Torm13 - Improved Stunning Fist VI
34 Champion of Torm14 - Improved Stunning Fist VII
35 Champion of Torm15
36 Champion of Torm16 - WIS +1 (30), Improved Stunning Fist VIII*
37 Champion of Torm17
38 Champion of Torm18 - Great WIS V* (31)
39 Druid - Dragon Shape**
40 Monk - WIS +1 (32)

* Unsure is one of these should be changes for Epic Prowess.
** Taken late for skilldump.

Skills:
Discipline 43
Spellcraft 40
Tumble 40

Saving Throws (unshifted / shifted)
32 / 45
34 / 43
43 / 43

HP: 316
AC: 34
BAB: 25
AB: +24

9 Stunning Fists per day
Stunning Fist DC: 57 (61 with Owl's Insight, 63 max)

I would do anything to increase my CHA, since Divine Wrath gives +7 AB, divine damage and saves, but unbuffed I cannot even use it.

I really don't intend to make the whole "Dragon stats", Druid buffs and stuff, I suppose you all know them.

Advantages: Real hard to resist stunning fist, good AC and HP, as any dragon, very high saves.

Disadvantages: XP penalty from level 10 forward, not very high AB.

Now don't even think about reminding me of paralysis immunities, they are evil I say.

Feedbacks...

A couple of suggesions:
Adjust the levelling order a bit - take CoT 1 at level 19 instead of 20. Take Great Wis V early, so that you can take Druid level 15 at level 33, and get DS much earlier.

I would also drop 4 CoT levels for 4 monk levels. Costs you 1 feat (1 less ISF), but gains you 4 SF's per day, Improved Evasion, and 1 monk AC. I would probably drop a second ISF for Epic Prowess as already noted (the DC will still be high enough that very few will make their save).

I might consider dropping either Blindfight (since you can cast True Seeing) and/or Toughness for Disarm and Imp Disarm. As long as you have SF's, it's not critical, but you don't have many so it may be useful for when they run out.

TM True Seeing does not help against concealed opponents.
_________________
Quote: Posted 04/26/06 12:05:52 (GMT) -- Ithacan

[...]Harper Scout, the only class so powerful it's capped at five.
[...]

Quote: Posted 04/28/06 13:15:10 (GMT) -- FinneousPJ

True Seeing does not help against concealed opponents.

You won't get TM to believe that.

And he has perma-True Seeing in DS anyway, so he don't need to waste a spell-slot.

Nice build, but like you say, a bit specialized. Anything you can hit on one of your first attacks is in trouble.

I would also recommend as the others. More Monk, EP and AS.
_________________
Dragonlance ROH is back, better than before! and I spend a little time here WoG Waaiit...your little story says ol' Richard dies of a Wuivering Palm...from a level six monk!? Heh heh, you noticed Zoodleton... Quivering Palm doesn't gets the ISF DC anyway, although it wouldn't be low since WIS is high, but you need 15 Monk levels for it, I was planning to have it (when I made the story) until I realized CoT gains ISF as bonus feat, and substituded a lot of Monk for CoT.

Alright then, I will change one ISF for Epic Prowess... although I think I won't take Armor Skin on this one, to retain DC as high as possible, but it won't matter if I don't hit...... However, changing 4 CoT for 4 Monk? I mean, sure, get Improved Evasion and more SFs in exchange of 1 feat, however, changing only 3 would get me the Improved Evasion and 3 SFs retaining 2 Divine Wrath's Power (if it gets used by chance) instead of 1 Monk AC.

I was thinking sometime after posting the build, there must and is a way to improve my base CHA so that I can use Divine Wrath. Maybe Great Wis V could be changed for Great CHA and use the last ability incresing point in CHA, to end with 12 CHA and 30 WIS, so that at least Divine Wrath gets to be used, +7 AB damage and saves are really worth it against 1 AC and DC, even if it's just one round.

Now...... wait, that was stupid, WIS 18 costs 3 points at starting level, I could start with 17 WIS and 13 CHA, I could leave the same amount of Great WIS, by getting Great WIS V earlier I would get 30 WIS at level 36 and use the last point on CHA to end CHA 14 WIS 30.

I'll need to remake the build with changes.... I'm not sure how much DC is affected, it will be high that's for sure, although I liked the DC getting over 60 buffed.

Thanks.

Edited By Thaxll'ssyllia on 04/29/06 16:42

Quote: Posted 04/28/06 13:15:10 (GMT) -- FinneousPJ

True Seeing does not help against concealed opponents.

Okay, so he'll use Invisibility Purge or Greater Dispelling instead. I'm not saying Blindfight is useless, but I think Disarm would be very useful for a dragon build.

TM
Quote: Posted 05/01/06 12:38:15 (GMT) -- Tattoed Monk

Quote: Posted 04/28/06 13:15:10 (GMT) -- FinneousPJ

True Seeing does not help against concealed opponents.

Okay, so he'll use Invisibility Purge or Greater Dispelling instead. I'm not saying Blindfight is useless, but I think Disarm would be very useful for a dragon build.

TM

That too will not help vs natural concealment, Blind fight would instead.

This said, I agree that ID is a nice feat to have in a dragon build.

Cheers,
Kail
_________________
Wait for me Dragon, we'll meet in the sky
By fire and magic, I'm sworn
Hell is calling, we cannot be denied
Fly to the blackness of the Storm

We must die to be reborn!

Edited By Kail Pendragon on 05/01/06 15:07

Well, I also like Improved Disarm and I've used it with draogon builds, pretty neat, you even get an attack of opportunity thanks to it because they end unarmed, as if taking their weapon wasn't enough, however, if I already make awesome stuns, and have IKD, ID probably won't be so important...

I know some enemies are immune to paralysis... RDDs too IIRC.

What feat changes would you suggest to take ID? I might consider to change it... Ok, I'm just posting the changes I forgot to post back when they were suggested and some of my own. Divine Wrath really makes some difference, and now it is completely useable, no real need to reply here.

Elf

Stats:
STR 8
DEX 18 (19)
CON 6
WIS 17 (30)
INT 9
CHA 15 (16)

Leveling:

1 Druid1 - Blind-Fight
2 Monk1
3 Druid2 - Extend Spell
4 Monk2 - DEX +1 (19)
5 Druid3
6 Monk3 - Empower Spell
7 Druid4
8 Monk4 - WIS +1 (18)
9 Druid5 - Weapon Focus: kama
10 Druid6
11 Druid7
12 Druid8 - WIS +1 (19), Improved Critical: unarmed strike
13 Druid9
14 Druid10
15 Druid11 - Toughness
16 Druid12 - WIS +1 (20)
17 Druid13
18 Druid14 - Extra Stunning Attacks
19 Druid15
20 Champion of Torm1 - WIS +1 (21)
21 Champion of Torm2 - Epic Prowess, Great WIS I (22)
22 Champion of Torm3
23 Champion of Torm4 - Great WIS II (23)
24 Champion of Torm5 - WIS +1 (24), Great WIS III (25)
25 Champion of Torm6 - Great WIS IV (26)
26 Champion of Torm7
27 Monk5 - Great WIS V (27)
28 Champion of Torm8 - WIS +1 (28), Improved Stunning Fist I
29 Champion of Torm9
30 Champion of Torm10 - Improved Stunning Fist II, Improved Stunning Fist III
31 Champion of Torm11
32 Champion of Torm12 - WIS +1 (29)
33 Champion of Torm13 - Improved Stunning Fist IV
34 Champion of Torm14 - Improved Stunning Fist V
35 Champion of Torm15
36 Champion of Torm16 - WIS +1 (30), Improved Stunning Fist VI
37 Champion of Torm17
38 Champion of Torm18 - Improved Stunning Fist VII
39 Druid - Dragon Shape
40 Monk - CHA +1 (16)

Skills:
Spellcraft 42
Tumble 40

Saving Throws (unshifted / shifted)
Fortitude: 32 / 45 (+8 vs spells)
Reflex: 34 / 43 (+8 vs spells)
Will: 43 / 43 (+8 vs spells)

HP: 276
AC: 33 (10 base + 4 DEX + 8 Tumble + 10 WIS + 1 Monk)
BAB: 25
AB: +25
Stunning Fist DC: 54 /9 times per day

Divine Wrath: +7 AB, +7 divine damage and +7 to all saves for 3 rounds, DR 10/+2 is weaker than natural dragon DR.

Smite Evil: +3 AB and +18 damage to evil creatures once per day.

Shifted:
HP: 856
AC: 60 (10 base + 20 Dodge + 8 Tumble + 13 DEX + 10 WIS + 1 Monk - 2 size)
AB: 49 (25 + 20 STR + 6 enhancement - 2 size)
Damage: 2d6 + 25
SR: 20
True Seeing
Immunity: Mind-affecting spells, Sneak Attack, Paralysis

Buffed and shifted:
HP: 976 (+ 3 CON Extended Blood Frenzy and Aura of Vitality)
AC: 71 (+ 5 Barkskin + 4 Owl's Insight + 2 DEX Extended Aura of Vitality)
AB: 62 (49 + 6 STR (Empowered Bull's STR, Extended Blood Frenzy and Aura of Vitality + 7 Divine Wrath)
Damage: 2d6 + 31 + 7 divine (40-50)
Stunning Fist DC: 58
SR: 28

Smite Buffed AB: 65
Smite Buffed damage: 58-68 Why do you go from 18 to 19 dex? Your forms will override it. Even while leveling up, you'd not benefit from it much.
More Wisdom might be a bit better. Or perhaps you could drop inital dex to 17, and pump up Int a few notches for extra skill points. Then take that first stat buff for 18 dex.

I'm guessing that while you level up, you might be using the animal forms (all of which override dex). So I do not know why you start off with 18 and increase it to 19. It's required for the stunning fist feats, Bromium.
_________________
"With Europe liberated, the people of the world turned their attention to that old devil, the United States of America [...] We taught that monster of old the true meaning of freedom."
Star Wreck ISF requires 19 DEX (and 19 WIS).
_________________
Heavy metal
Or no metal at all
Whimps and posers
Leave the hall! ah Hmm, I scripted a dragon with a very similar level split (actually, this is one of the alternatives that I propose); it's a bit different but not worth a new post, I don't think.

This one takes better advantage of the dragon ability bump (but forgoes ISF) and takes 8 CoT levels pre-epic for the AB. 27 Base AB. And it will save against the highest of Dev Crit DC, which is hard for a dragon build to say. It also has useable divine wrath to maximize the Improved Disarm chances. I consider it a level 40 PvP build.

Druid 14/Monk 6/CoT 20
Human

PvP 40

Lawful, Non-Evil

Str 8
Dex 8
Con 8
Wis 18 to 32
Int 14
Cha 15 to 16

1 Druid 1 LoH, Toughness
2 Monk 1 [Cleave, Evasion]
3 Druid 2 WF Kama
4 Druid 3 +wis 19
5 Druid 4 :
6 Druid 5: Extend
7 Monk 2:
8 Druid 6: +wis 20
9 Druid 7 : Great Fortitude
10 Druid 8
11 CoT 1
12 Monk 3 +wis 21, Disarm
13 CoT 2 WF Unarmed
14 CoT 3
15 CoT 4 Blind Fight, Imp. Crit *unarmed*
16 CoT 5 +wis 22
17 Monk 4:
18 CoT 6 Imp. Disarm, Extra Stunning Fist
19 CoT 7
20 CoT 8: Expertise +Wis 23
21 CoT 9: EWF (Unarmed)
22 CoT 10 GrWis I24
23 Druid 9
24 Druid 10 +wis 25, GrWis II 26
25 Druid 11
26 Druid 12
27 Monk 5: Gr Wis III 27
28 Druid 13: +wis 28
29 CoT 11
30 CoT 12 Epic Prowess
31 CoT 13
32 CoT 14: CoT Feat: GrWis IV 29 +wis 30
33 Druid 14: Dragon Shape
34 CoT 15:
35 CoT 16:
36 CoT 17 Wis 31 Epic Fortitude
37 CoT 18: CoT Feat: AS
38 CoT 19
39 CoT 20 Great Wis V 32
40 Monk 6 [IKD] Cha 16

You can take Druid to 16 and forgoe CoT 19 and 20; you lose one point to all saves and +2 to your divine wrath. But you gain extended 7th level spells (aura of vitality is awesome for a dragon) and 8th level spells.

AB: 27 base + 19 Str + 3 EWF + 1 EP = 50 + 6 str = 56 + 2 outdoors = 58 + 9 Divine Wrath = 67

AC: 83

Saves in Dragon Form:

Fort: 56
Will: 48
Reflex: 46

Skills (230)

Spellcraft 36
Discipline 43
Concentration 43
Tumble 40
Listen 43
O/L 2/1
Set 2/1
PP: 2/1
Disable 2/1
Heal 43

So cheers to the level split and concept.

Ithacan
_________________
We shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender - Winston Churchill An interesting twist/alternative, Ithacan, however:

Quote: Posted 12/28/06 17:12 (GMT) -- Kail Pendragon

ISF requires 19 DEX (and 19 WIS).
Thax, neato.
Woe to the evil you land a hit upon, with div wrath, indeed - specialized, yes, but I likes it; btw, you may have heard, Dragon Blade be lookin' for a dragon to ride; has Claw any interest? (what a team would they make, and how! (he'll rage, you stun - we can talk about how to split up that gold later (I know how much you dragons like that gold, ain't that right, also to Finn, Ithacan, and Kail

Love these druid-dragon, types. Neat!
Quote: Posted 01/29/07 16:11 (GMT) -- Ithacan


This one takes better advantage of the dragon ability bump (but forgoes ISF) and takes 8 CoT levels pre-epic for the AB. 27 Base AB. And it will save against the highest of Dev Crit DC, which is hard for a dragon build to say. It also has useable divine wrath to maximize the Improved Disarm chances. I consider it a level 40 PvP build.

****
Ithacan

No ISF in the build. Went another way with it. Yep, and an interesting twist (just musing that ISF's integral to Thax' build, and a cool concept, too, no? Me likes the idea, but your 'other way' seems interesting, too -
Quote: Posted 01/29/07 16:48 (GMT) -- TyrTemplar

Yep, and an interesting twist (just musing that ISF's integral to Thax' build, and a cool concept, too, no? Me likes the idea, but your 'other way' seems interesting, too -

It would be inaccurate to say that Thax's is a one-trick pony - no dragon really is - but mine should have a bit more balance. You sell out a lot to get that Dex to 19 for the ISF line of feats. A CoT without Charisma takes one of the most ravaging feats - Divine Wrath - and puts it on the sidelines. A level 20 CoT adds +9 to his attack bonus for 1 round/charisma bonus. Or three rounds. It's a one shot deal, but for a disarmer, one shot may be all that is necessary. And mine will have a DC in the mid 50's on its stunning fist (10 + 19 (str bonus) + 20 = 49 + 6 Str buffs/equipment = 55).

Cheers, Tyr and Thax. Well, I don't want to sound like I like more my build just because I made it, but you just can't replace them in such a post... your dragon is nice but way far from my idea of superb Stunning Fists, this is the best way I could think of to attain inmesurable DC with a decent AC and AB, I've tried and any other attempt lets the DC or the stats lower, granted, that this isn't one of the strongest looking dragon, but it's quite ok.

Now, sorry to bust you Ithacan, but your dragon gets a much lower DC, since it calculates WIS and not STR, (dragon's base STR is 48 vs your base 32 WIS does make a difference) your base dragon's Stunning Fist DC would be 41, which is effectively good and reliable but nowhere near my base 54, the second version I posted already lowers DC for quite an improvement in combat vitals, but I wouldn't sacrifice it much more. With a base DC of 54, buffable to 58, only a class combination with plenty of CoT or high charisma Paladin or Blackguard can resist it (dragons are also good at the saves btw), and obviously RDDs which are immune, Stunning Fist himself is quite good at resisting it though, being a dragon with lots of CoT, almost any other combinations already failed the save, stun lasts for 3 rounds, and renders them prone if I'm correct, should be easy to maintain any enemy stunned until death unless their AC is too high.

I appreciate that you try to improve it though.

Sorry TyrTemplar, but the dragon seat is already occupied... he would not let anybody other than me ride him... I get jealous.

It's nice to see the old ones still get some attention, thanks Ithacan.

Edited By Thaxll'ssyllia on 01/30/07 03:28

Exactly right, Thax - imagine my frustration when I hit the Build Search to see if posting my new dragon was worthwhile to post only to find yours there with almost the same level split but a different tack. Not different enough to post a new one with almost identical levels but different in focus.

Nicely done, cheers.

Ithacan

Just tossed a link to a graphic in me dragon blade, and thought Claw might like one, too - Ride On! ~ Tyr

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