Quote: Harper Scout, the only class so powerful it is limited to 5 levels...
Celadur looked around, there wasn’t much to see and he’d never been here before. In fact, he wasn’t even sure where here was anymore. He’d been traveling for so long, mostly working undercover for the Harpers, constantly on the look out for evil. And evil he had certainly found. He had hardly left the boat and already the rotten stench was in the air. A lot of good here could be done.
Sticking to the shadows as best he could, Celadur followed dark alleys, twisting narrow streets, getting a feel for the city, whilst also on his self-righteous mission. “Was it really so self-righteous?” he pondered, clutching his holy symbol tight, knowing for sure he’d be using some divine influence later.
“Stop, who goes there?” came a voice from the dark…
“You’re not welcome here…” came another voice from the dark, as more figures started appearing from the shadows.
Looking around now Celadur could see he was surrounded, maybe ten in visible sight, though he also spotted at least one figure in a nearby window. It didn’t look like there was going to be an easy way out of this, and unconsciously his fingers tightened around his kama. As it surely looked like a battle for sure he began to cast a few silent buffing spells.
“So what’s it going to be stranger?” the crowd parted as a larger figure now stepped into the centre directly facing Celadur, the dust billowing up in small vortexes as a leathery pair of dragon wings flapped at his back. He was openly brandishing a scimitar which still had blood running down the edge and didn’t look like he was afraid to use it. “We don’t take kindly to people poking their noses around here.”
Celadur looked at him, very well spoken though he was for a Half-Orc, he could only guess that his other parent had been a dragon. “You have made a mistake, I think you should put away your weapons and leave here unharmed!”
“Muhahaha…don’t make me laugh” retorted the Half-Dragon Half-Orc, and the whole crowd erupted in laughter. “There’s, Oh well I’m not going to tell you how many of us there are, but it certainly looks like there’s only one of you.”
“That as it may be, you have lost the only thing you had going for you…surprise” and with that Celadur threw off his cloak, the beautiful pair of Angel wings springing out from underneath. He leapt forward at the leader, knocking down with remarkable ease, springing back to attack as a couple of the crowd moved in. An arrow from above whizzing past his head as he easily deflected another with his free hand.
Blow after blow, Celadur landed with ease, the bodies piling around him. The leader was trying his best to hit him but had barely landed a blow and soon it was just them face to face. “Will you not concede defeat? You could escape with your life” offered Celadur.
“NEVER” as the Half-Orc Half-Dragon lunged forward with one final thrust. Celadur sprung sideways and lightly touched the flat-footed foe, the harmful spell draining most of his life-force, which was immediately snuffed out when the flurry of kama blows landed.
Tired but not exhausted Celadur looked around, it was a start, but he knew there was still much evil left in the city…but that could wait till tomorrow…
the Undiscovered Country pt. I Cleric 29 / Monk 6 / Harper Scout 5
Ultimately designed for lvl 40 play, though leveling is such as to try and allow a lot of skill dumping as you go along: Monk levels are such that you can get a bonus tumble AC each time you level.
Suitable for Play vs. Monsters & Play vs. Players.
01: Monk(1): alertness 02: Cleric(1): domain trickery, domain travel* 03: Cleric(2): weapon finesse 04: Cleric(3): WIS+1, WIS=16 05: Cleric(4): 06: Cleric(5): extend spell 07: Monk(2): 08: Cleric(6): DEX+1, DEX=19 09: Cleric(7): iron will 10: Cleric(8): 11: Cleric(9): 12: Monk(3): DEX+1, weapon focus**, DEX=20 13: Cleric(10): 14: Cleric(11): 15: Cleric(12): silent spell*** 16: Cleric(13): DEX+1, DEX=21 17: Monk(4): 18: Cleric(14): blind fight 19: Cleric(15): 20: Cleric(16): DEX+1, DEX=22 21: Cleric(17): epic weapon focus 22: Monk(5): 23: Cleric(18): 24: Cleric(19): DEX+1, armor skin, DEX=23 25: Cleric(20): 26: Cleric(21): 27: Monk(6): epic prowess 28: Cleric(22): DEX+1, DEX=24 29: Cleric(23): great wisdom I, WIS=17 30: Cleric(24): great dexterity I, DEX=25 31: Cleric(25): 32: Harper Scout(1)****: DEX+1, epic skill focus: discipline, DEX=26 33: Cleric(26): great dexterity II, great wisdom II, DEX=27, WIS=18 34: Cleric(27): 35: Harper Scout(2): 36: Cleric(28): DEX+1, great dexterity III, DEX=29 37: Harper Scout(3): 38: Harper Scout(4): 39: Cleric(29): great dexterity IV, great wisdom III, DEX=30, WIS=19 40: Harper Scout(5): DEX+1, great dexterity V, DEX=32
* when perma-haste items are available, I would recommend Magic Domain for Stoneskin & Mage Armor
** as may be evident from the story above Kama is the natural choice, however in such circumstances that you cannot use a Kama I would probably go for a Mace but then I’m sure some people may already know that
*** silent spell is purely taken for the purpose of the story, though it does have the added advantages of 1) being able to cast whilst silenced 2) allowing you to use spell slots one level higher to use a spell you wish to use lots of…for example a very dedicated healer with Healing Domain can have Heals & Mass Heals for ALL their spell slots 5th level and above. In reality I would actually use Blind Fight instead, and would also like to have fitted in Toughness as well.
**** you need to have taken the following skill ranks by this level: discipline 20, persuade 8, lore 6 & search 4
Combat
Unbuffed AB – mundane kama:
40 / 37 / 34 / 31 / 28
Self Buffed AB– Divine Favor, Divine Power, Bless, Aid, Prayer, GMW, Battletide, Maximum Harper Cat’s Grace, Maximum Harper Potion
65 / 65 / 65 / 62 / 59 / 56 / 53
Maximum Buffed AB– as above, with +12 to Dex. from items
Well there we go 5 pages of Word & 2 ½ hours later we have a finished build write up. I truly hope that I have not forgotten anything! For those who are interested, there are no-results on Pulse-Caps search engine, for this build combination…that is from how it appears, there are NO BUILDS using these three classes…which is a shame because they seem to combine magnificently…the Harper levels are used for those Handy two little Epic feats that I would have taken anyway.
…watch out for Part II
NOTE - this Character does suffer an XP penalty from level 4 onwards, which unfortunately it carrier all the way through to 40, however as earlier mentioned, this build’s power culminates in the last few levels so play may be difficult, especially as you have to wait till lvl 39 for lvl 9 spells
this build is seriously UBER, however it is definitely not for the faint-hearted. I would highly recommend it to anyone who knows the true power of Clerics, however a good deal of proficiency with Battle-Cleric play is recommended
EDIT : ...and I hoped after 3 hours of careful typing I wouldn't have to edit at all
Edited By Kail Pendragon on 10/12/07 14:54
I see a couple of problems with the build: no ED, actually not even uncanny dodge (ouch!) and cleric spells available later than they could due to a too low WIS score. No uncanny dodge is a big issue IMO.
For domains I'd pick trickery and war, you'll cap your dex without any items with stackable cat's graces and AoV and get a nice boost to STR and CON too (and the HS eagle's splendor stackable with the cleric one will make Battle Mastery last longer when needed).
Cheers, Kail _________________ To hear the sound of Freedom, many gave their lives They fought for you and me Those memories will always live inside us, and now it's our time to be free
Edited By Kail Pendragon on 05/01/06 10:09
I didn't really see the lack of Uncanny Dodge as a problem...the only way you are going to be flat-footed (and lose you Dex bonus) is if someone sneaks up on you!
True-seeing will easily protect against sneakers...and if that is NERFed, there is always Spot Skill...you can drop 1 Great Dex into a Great Wis & take ESF: Spot on a HArper feat if it is!
The domains were mainly for the purpose of the story! And for very low magic enviroments! With the AB sitting on the +20 Cap, Battle Mastery is less necessary!
You are flat footed also when knocked down, held, dazed and so on, uncanny dodge would let you keep your DEX AC at least. The lack of ED in a dexer is also lamentable, dmg output is lowish and you'd could surely do with avoiding the first hit every round, since you'll need more time to kill them or to avoid having your harm interrupted. At least you've got undispellable II, but blind fight halves its usefulness.
Battle Mastery might indeed be of little use, but Cat's Grace and AoV are darn useful IMO.
Cleric rock anyhow, it's difficult to go wrong with them.
Nice story, by the way.
Cheers, Kail _________________ To hear the sound of Freedom, many gave their lives They fought for you and me Those memories will always live inside us, and now it's our time to be free
Edited By Kail Pendragon on 05/01/06 10:30
Unless you're playing the OCs, I wouldn't recommend your current configuration. Let me explain.
You currently do an all-out blitz on Dexterity, and seem hellbent on increasing it at every opportunity. Let me advise against this course. If you are gunning for Epic Dodge, or Self Concealment, that is one thing. But you're not. You don't even have Hide in Plain Sight. Further, not having Uncanny Dodge is a major issue. I've seen players build Dex-based characters without selecting a class that offers UD, and then they get their butts wiped consistently. They complain that it's the environment, or that so-and-so is a killer DM, or that they don't want to "meta-game" and are just trying to play a concept character. But Dexers without Uncanny Dodge is like a Paladin without Charisma....why? The number of times and events where you'll be caught flatfooted are legion. Nor will True-seeing or Spot be a failsafe.
Which brings me to the next point: At 28th level you are a 22nd level Cleric, yet you still can't cast 7th, 8th, and 9th level spells. In fact, you can't even cast 9th lvl spells until 39th level. From level 14 through 28, I can't think of a better time to have such spells. It's not like you have sneak attacks or any other Dex-associated things to back you up. This also cuts into your bonus spells. And while one can make the argument that there aren't any worthwhile spells from 7th-9th, I would argue that it's extremely shortsighted to assume that. One Finessed Kama with Darkfire isn't going to see you through all your encounters, nor will stacking Cats Graces.
So, krsboss, I respect your decisions, but I would be remiss if I did not counsel you to reconsider your course of action. If you must go Dex-based, take SD or Rogue (or even Barbarian) to get UD. And if you must go 29Cleric, try to get some more Wisdom up front. Give yourself the opportunity to at least cast 7-9th lvl spells pre-epic. We can talk about DCs later.
Which brings me to the next point: At 28th level you are a 22nd level Cleric, yet you still can't cast 7th, 8th, and 9th level spells.
Actually my builds are like that too, since it's optimized for lvl40 pvp, I go without it till I get the epic cleric bonus feat for great wisdom.
But I do agree that no Uncanny dodge is a big no no for dex builds. Unless the build is for 1on1 in the area, but then hopefully you have extended divine favors.
My same thoughts Grizz, just more clearly expressed.
Actually my builds are like that too, since it's optimized for lvl40 pvp, I go without it till I get the epic cleric bonus feat for great wisdom.
See, if that's the case, then it should be billed as such, but I got the impression it was ground up.
Also, perhaps I missed it, but there's also a 20% xp penalty for the majority of the build. _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
Ariel, Ookla, RIDE!
He pointed out the XP penalty at the end of the post.
He pointed out the XP penalty at the end of the post.
I see it now, Kail, thanks. It's right above the bright bolded section that said it is "seriously Uber". I think that distracted me from the narrative. Got it. _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
Ariel, Ookla, RIDE!
Edited By grizzled_dwarflord on 05/01/06 16:45
Ooooh, dexers without uncanny in PvP. Let me at him. But seriously, if you want a good PvP build just go cleric heavy, include monk, and you're bound to be decent at least.
Aside from that, nice story. Prolly a good PvPer too until one of Grims heavy hitters comes along, understands you're Dex and no uncanny, spams KD, waves bye-bye.
Congrats on the unique combo. _________________ I see the fear you have inside, you can run but never hide. I will hunt you down and tear you limb from limb.
I run the Pre-Epic Builders guild. Join and share your experience.
Krsboss -
FYI, too much bold text makes things hard to read.
What's the deal with "Wings - Angel" as part of the stats? Where do wings come from? Why put them in the write up?
Nice touch putting a story on the post.
Calling your own build "seriously UBER"? Tsk tsk tsk.
Edited By Ubernachtung on 05/02/06 02:10
Quote: Posted 05/02/06 02:08:20 (GMT) -- Ubernachtung Calling your own build "seriously UBER"? Tsk tsk tsk.
I LOVE IT!! When the egos flair!! I would love to see this "seriously uber" build go against one of Grims 'run of the mill KILLER builds" any day! Besdides, we all know it aint so much the build thats uber, its the set-up AND the player. Unfortunately, all the posters TRIED to help with the setup, since he's not interested, its time for him to PROVE IT!
It should be a new "epic builders" rule, if you declare your build the BEST or the UBERest you must prove it! I am so tired of all these "whats the best" I make the uberest blah blah blah... we should take all those who say it and make em prove it! Of course, these would be the same dudes that have 2 pc's runnin on the same server and fight each other to prove whos the best. The truly sad thing is, he always looses to himself
But Dexers without Uncanny Dodge is like a Paladin without Charisma....
lol u are going to laugh when u see my next build!
Quote: why?
I wanted as many Cleric levels as possible in a Battle-Cleric build, taking SD or Rogue instead of Harper Scout would mean you would lose out on feats, casting levels, AB, however I agree that uncanny dodge would be useful...however it would be a different build
FYI, too much bold text makes things hard to read.
the BOlDiNg is there to draw your attention to the key points of the build such that when you skim through as many people do, you immediately see what is important, such as feats and ability increases and other majpr points such as AB & AC
Quote: What's the deal with "Wings - Angel" as part of the stats? Where do wings come from? Why put them in the write up?
it is possible to add wings to your NWN characters so in keeping with the story and a slight perverted sense of role-playing I decided to put them in the write up. As with the selection of Silent Spell, which was only taken for the purposes of the story! In reality it's Skill Focus: Discipline (not the Blind Fight mentioned under the *** point & already taken at level 18)
until one of Grims heavy hitters comes along, understands you're Dex and no uncanny, spams KD, waves bye-bye.
That's if I don't IKD you first
Quote: Posted 05/01/06 08:43:21 (GMT) -- krsboss
this build is seriously UBER, however it is definitely not for the faint-hearted. I would highly recommend it to anyone who knows the true power of Clerics, however a good deal of proficiency with Battle-Cleric play is recommended
I admit that this maybe a little over-Zealous, however I stand by my convictions!
As we all know, there is no one build that is better than the rest, merely a lot of excellent builds that are good in different situations & versus different adversaries...however that said there are builds that will certainly fair better in a more situations than others!
Edited By krsboss on 05/02/06 04:23
It's a nice concept, particularly with my leaning to using HS in my builds recently, but personally I never see the point of Dex based clerics, particularly if no UD is awarded (see Grizz'z eloquent reasoning). But mainly because a Cleric can cast in armor and with a shield, thanks to thier divine magic.
Unfortunately I have tried a DEX based Cleric Monk once before, and I can honestly say never again. You get your butt served to you on a plate relying on the Dex AC bonus.
Anyway, aside from that, you would benefit from finishing with a WIS of 20 - extra 1st & 5th spell, and +1 to WIS save.
Not sure that the HS abilities are fully utilised in this build, particularly with such a low CHA score. Your turn undead abilities are severely compromised with a base score of 8, dropping your starting DEX to 16 and freeing up 4 points could be more beneficial to you. Your stackable Eagle's Splendour could make this a prizes asset, particularly if you went down the route of War/ Trickery Domain and either dropping Travel.
Skill ranks of 12 & 11 in Hide and Move Silently are of little use in this build. You'd be better off maxing Spellcraft beforehand.
Could go Human to forego the xp penalty, but that's of little import I feel.
Your offensive spell casting DCs will be extremely low with a WIS of 19, which could pose you a few problems, paricularly in higher encounters.
until one of Grims heavy hitters comes along, understands you're Dex and no uncanny, spams KD, waves bye-bye.
That's if I don't IKD you first
What my point really was: When you have UD, you will still retain decent AC when knocked down.
Up against a STR-build(or god-forbid, a Dragon-shape), all they need to do is spam IKD and sooner or later, that is in 3 or 4 rounds TOPS, you will get knocked down and receive severe punishment. Or a against a sneak-attack heavy dexer. Uncanny dodge would limit the penalty you will get when knocked down. I know spamming KD is kinda lame, but it will be a sure win vs no-UD dexers.
Just a friendly point of advice, that was all. _________________ I see the fear you have inside, you can run but never hide. I will hunt you down and tear you limb from limb.
I run the Pre-Epic Builders guild. Join and share your experience.
but personally I never see the point of Dex based clerics, particularly if no UD is awarded (see Grizz'z eloquent reasoning). But mainly because a Cleric can cast in armor and with a shield, thanks to thier divine magic.
the main advantage of Dex based clerics is that they combine excessively well with monks, being wisdom based, you can get sickenly high AC...which works very well when also combined with Rogue levels
eg. a 15/15/10 cleric/monk/rogue can have epic dodge whilst stil casting lvl 8 cleric spells, & using a kama or unarmed have an AB of ~63 with 8 attacks a round & depending on itmes, high ACs (~80+ with +6 items)
However you do get a 40% XP penalty at times! & that level combination is not the subject of this thread!
Quote: Anyway, aside from that, you would benefit from finishing with a WIS of 20 - extra 1st & 5th spell, and +1 to WIS save.
Wis 20 would be nice as u mention above, furthemore it would also increase AC by 1, however in order to do so you would end up lowering Dex, which although freeing up some stat points (str/cha maybe!) would lower AC & AB & relfex save by 1, though further freeing up anothe Epic feat...ESF: spot!
Quote: dropping Travel.
Travel is only in there for the purposes of very low magic worlds where Perm-haste is not an option...I would probably end up taking Magic domain for Mage Armor & Stoneskin, or Knowledge for Clairaudience / Clairvoyance if true seeing NERFed
Quote: Skill ranks of 12 & 11 in Hide and Move Silently are of little use in this build. You'd be better off maxing Spellcraft beforehand.
very true...though you'd be amazed how many people actually have builds running 0 detect!
Quote: Could go Human to forego the xp penalty, but that's of little import I feel.
Elf = keen senses! Invaluable in true-seeing NERFed PvP!
Quote: Your offensive spell casting DCs will be extremely low with a WIS of 19, which could pose you a few problems, paricularly in higher encounters
offensive casting not really my option with this build...I usually run around with extended Aura vs Alignment & UEF for 9th lvl spells...with a complete matching set of combat buffs as you go down (ie 3 x extended prayer/divine power/battletide/AvA) with the rest heals/mass heals/greater (or otherwise) restoration, usual buffs (NEP, FoM, DW, GMW, etc...)
Quote: Aside from that, I hope the feedback helps some.
:D:D yeah feedback is always good...thanks a lot for all your comments everyone...& spare a though next time u get sneaked by a 12 hide no Uncanny Dodge dex based battle-cleric!
but then I’m sure some people may already know that 
2) allowing you to use spell slots one level higher to use a spell you wish to use lots of…for example a very dedicated healer with Healing Domain can have Heals & Mass Heals for ALL their spell slots 5th level and above. In reality I would actually use Blind Fight instead, and would also like to have fitted in Toughness as well.
