PvP. Reasonably playable from 1-40, although optimized for a complete level 40 build.

My aim was to create a character that uses a large weapon yet still getting a reaonsable amount of AC. A "traditional" build of a heavy hitter with a large weapon and full plate always bothered me with low AC compared to a sword and shield setup, so I went to search for an answer to use a large weapon yet having AC that rivals to a medium weapon plus tower shield build.


Race: Human
Alignment: Lawful good


Starting stats:
Str 18 (30)
Dex 8
Con 8
Wis 14 (20)
Int 10
Cha 14



Leveling:
1 paladin - Power attack, Weapon focus (greatsword)
2 paladin
3 paladin - Blind fight
4 paladin
5 paladin
6 paladin - Combat casting
7 paladin
8 paladin
9 paladin - Improved critical (greatsword)
10 paladin
11 paladin
12 paladin - Extend spell
13 paladin
14 paladin
15 paladin - Skill focus (Discipline)
16 paladin
17 paladin
18 paladin - Divine shield
19 paladin
20 Cot
21 Cot - Great strength I, Great wisdom I
22 Cot
23 Cot - Great wisdom II
24 Cot - Great strength II
25 Cot - Great wisdom III
26 Cot
27 Cot - Epic weapon focus (greatsword), Great wisdom IV
28 Cot
29 Cot - Great wisdom V
30 monk - Epic prowess
31 monk
32 monk
33 monk - Armour skin
34 monk
35 monk
36 monk - Epic skill focus (Discipline)
37 monk
38 monk
39 paladin - Great wisdom VI
40 monk


Skills:
- Concentration: 43
- Discipline: 43
- Heal: 23
- Tumble: 40


HP:
Paladin, 20x9; CoT, 10x9; Monk, 10x7 = 340hp.


AB:
30BAB + Strength modifier 10 + Epic weapon focus and weapon focus 3 + Epic prowess 1 = 44AB with a plain greatsword.

Also with 4 attacks per round at 44/39/34/29.


AC:
Base 10 + Tumble 8 + Monk innate 2 + Armour skin 2 + Wisdom modifier 5 = 27AC, add the negative 1 dexterity modifer and it's 26AC.


Saves:
- Fort: 29
- Reflex: 24
- Will: 28



I put the CoT levels in epic for one thing only, to get multiple great wisdom feats to boost up my wisdom for AC, why wisdom for AC you may ask? Well because I don't have uncanny dodge, putting into dexterity for AC would mean losing more AC when flatfooted, which is a no no. And I couldn't get as many great dexterity feats compared to great wisdom feats no matter of what other classes I combine anyway.

I play in a mid magic world where there are +12 to stats items and crafted weapons are limited to +5 plus 4 types of elemental damage. Actually all the crafted items are limited to +5, weapons and armour alike.

In that world, where most other strength builds with full plate and tower shield get around 70ac, this build achieves 70ac while wearing a +5 equipment. Not to mention you can run after those slow fighters with your monk speed or run away from them if needed.

Not too bad on the AB side either, fully buffing a plain greatsword from paladin and CoT buffs with +12 to strength, it can achieve 68AB. And this will kill many melee clerics because of Holy sword.

Some of the pre-epic feats can be swapped to your taste, for example, combat casting is not essential in this build so it can be swapped out for a feat that suits your style.


Cons:
- Can still lose dex AC bonus when caught flatfooted
- Constitution and hit points could be higher Interesting solution around the no uncanny dodge build. Saves are stout, AB is pretty stout. AC is pretty good, particularly in the environment you describe. As you know, I have been trying to build a two-hander that doesn't have this problem.

Nicely done, Med.

Cheers.

Ithacan Thank you thank you. =]

As I said, a fullplater can't achieve this sort of AC, and even though Divine Shield is dodge AC bonus, it still counts as something unless you get flatfooted, this is just a template as compared to the fullplater and I think it has it's moments, considering it has monk speed. Hmm. I see where you're coming from but I am not completely sold. I'd be a lot more comfortable with a build that had more hitpoints, mainly - in PvP an arcane caster is going to mow you down with only 340 base hp.

I also think a full-plate two-hander probably could achieve that kind of AC by another route with different classes (divine shield, or maybe shadow evade or RDD or PM bonus AC). I haven't tested it out or anything (and obviously, someone going for a maxed-out AC build will use a shield AND AC bonuses) it's just the feeling I get.

That said, this build does look like it's a lot of fun to play. I'd kind of suggest an alternate level progression - 17 paladin, 14 COT, 9 monk. You sacrifice some paladin spells per day in return for +2 to saves and a COT epic bonus feat. I think that's a reasonably good tradeoff.
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Experience is the mother of good judgement; bad judgement is the father of experience. What you should do is sacrifice 1 AB and 2 Dmg for 120 hitpoints at lvl 40. 18 in a starting stat is nice, and sometimes necessary if you want to reach Dragonshape, Self-concealment, Dev crit etc. Otherwise it mostly lowers your capabilities more than enhancing them.

Other than that, great.
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Dragonlance ROH is back, better than before! and I spend a little time here WoG
Quote: Posted 05/09/06 19:11:00 (GMT) -- Grimnir77

What you should do is sacrifice 1 AB and 2 Dmg for 120 hitpoints at lvl 40. 18 in a starting stat is nice, and sometimes necessary if you want to reach Dragonshape, Self-concealment, Dev crit etc. Otherwise it mostly lowers your capabilities more than enhancing them.

Other than that, great.

I second that. Start with 16 STR/14 CON.
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Quote: Posted 04/26/06 12:05:52 (GMT) -- Ithacan

[...]Harper Scout, the only class so powerful it's capped at five.
[...]

Quote: Posted 05/09/06 18:10:18 (GMT) -- Medeia Lydian

Thank you thank you. =]

As I said, a fullplater can't achieve this sort of AC, and even though Divine Shield is dodge AC bonus, it still counts as something unless you get flatfooted, this is just a template as compared to the fullplater and I think it has it's moments, considering it has monk speed.

A fullplater can achieve this kind of AC.

10 Base
1 Dex
8 Fullplate
8 Tumble

That right there is 27, and if you add miscellaneous modifiers like bone skin or red dragon skin it can get even higher. I'm just not buying into this.

I'd say the build's greatest strength is its AB, which is good for a non-WM. Damage output is also good, but that's a given.

AC is good, but not actually higher than you can get with a good fullplate fighter.

The HP is problematic, as is the penalty from dexterity. 12 dex may not be worth it, but I find 8 dex to be problematic.

Paladin spellcasting is going to help you a lot, but I don't think it's useful enough to mitigate the build's weaknesses.
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CATS!
Quote: Posted 05/09/06 22:23:38 (GMT) -- avarielo

Quote: Posted 05/09/06 18:10:18 (GMT) -- Medeia Lydian

Thank you thank you. =]

As I said, a fullplater can't achieve this sort of AC, and even though Divine Shield is dodge AC bonus, it still counts as something unless you get flatfooted, this is just a template as compared to the fullplater and I think it has it's moments, considering it has monk speed.

A fullplater can achieve this kind of AC.

10 Base
1 Dex
8 Fullplate
8 Tumble

That right there is 27, and if you add miscellaneous modifiers like bone skin or red dragon skin it can get even higher.

What I think that the OP means is that a full-plate wearing two-hand build in +5 armor can't get the kind of fully-equipped AC this build achieves with +5 robes as well as +12 to dex, +12 to cha, and +12 to wis.

However, I'm pretty sure that with just the combination of divine shield and either dragon skin or bone skin, you can match this build's AC while wearing plate.

But the original build still has its strengths - good AB, paladin buffing, reasonable saves, improved evasion, monk speed, etc.
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Experience is the mother of good judgement; bad judgement is the father of experience. Wait wait wait wait wait wait...... wait...

Send to hell Skill Focus Discipline or Combat Casting (preferably the second) and get Divine Might, seriously, also trade non-CoT bonus feats Great WIS into Great CHA, or even STR from ability increaser, the Dodge is lost in mobs, but the net AC from WIS to CHA is the same while damage increases if you get Divine Might, duration also improves, as well as Smiting, although you just have 1 per day.

Godd idea to get a resistant guy wearing a two handed weapon... without the normal low AC high HP/DR Dwarven Defender...

Edited By Thaxll'ssyllia on 05/09/06 23:57

I did a little toying with this build and came up with the following... I'm not going to claim it's significantly better, it's just different and oriented more towards PvE.

Human, LG

Str 16
Dex 8
Con 14
Wis 14
Int 10
Cha 14

1 Pal (1): Weapon Focus, Power Attack
2 Pal (2):
3 Pal (3): Divine Might
4 Pal (4): +1 str
5 Pal (5):
6 Pal (6): Divine Shield
7 Pal (7):
8 Pal (8): +1 str
9 Pal (9): Extend Spell*
10 Pal (10):
11 COT (1):
12 COT (2): +1 str, Toughness, Blind-Fight+
13 Pal (11):
14 Pal (12):
15 Pal (13): Improved Critical
16 Pal (14): +1 str
17 Pal (15):
18 Pal (16): Extra Turning*
19 COT (3):
20 COT (4): +1 str, Called Shot+
21 COT (5): Epic Weapon Focus
22 Monk (1):
23 COT (6): Great Wis 1
24 COT (7): +1 str, Armor Skin
25 COT (8): Great Wis 2
26 COT (9):
27 Monk (2): Great Str 1
28 COT (10): +1 str, Great Wis 3
29 COT (11):
30 COT (12): Great Str 2
31 COT (13):
32 Monk (3): +1 str
33 COT (14): Epic Prowess, Great Wis 4+
34 Monk (4):
35 Monk (5):
36 Monk (6): +1 str, Great Wis 5
37 Monk (7):
38 Monk (8):
39 Pal (17): Great Wis 6
40 Monk (9): +1 str

* - Optional feat
+ - COT bonus feat

Ending Stats
28 str
20 wis

AB +43, +13 strength damage

AC 25 naked (includes -1 dex penalty)
502 max hitpoints
F 35 R 27 W 30

Skills - only enough points for 3, I took discipline, taunt, and tumble.

With the buffing/equipment assumed by the OP (+12 to dex, wis, cha and +5 ARMOR, DODGE, DEFLECTION, and NATURAL bonuses), you can reach an AC of 71 using this build, but a whopping +19 of that is dex/dodge bonus (+6 dex, +8 divine shield, +5 dodge AC) so if you are flatfooted you lose nearly 1/3 of your AC. On the flipside, the fact that you are practically at the stacking cap for dodge AC and will be over the stacking cap if you're hasted, argues against putting more emphasis on charisma for divine shield and makes the wisdom build look a lot better.

But the lack of UD is NOT a good thing for this character's defenses. In fact my experience with working on this has changed my opinion a little... I'm not sure this concept really works without uncanny dodge. Paladin/rogue or an align-changer paladin/barbarian might be a better idea.
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Experience is the mother of good judgement; bad judgement is the father of experience. Thanks for the suggestions guys.

A fullplater can achieve this AC, but it's going to be RDD or PMs, and I'd also like to note that the world I play at cannot have alignment shifts, so no Paladin/PM...

Since the weakness of this build is the hp, knockdown is one of the most useful thing for this build, with the relatively high AB, knockdown can be served as a defensive tool as much as an offensive tool.

"He who cannot attack, cannot hurt you."