* Pvm orientated build; few tweaks require to convert it to pvp.


--------------------------
FINAL BUILD
--------------------------

CLASSES:
- Wizard (32), School: Général
- Rogue (2)
- Champion of Torm (6)

ABILITIES:

Str: 10
Dex: 14
Con: 14
Int: 38
Wis: 08
Cha: 08


STATISTICS:

Hit Points: 320 maxed
AC: 20
Will Save: 24
Fort. Save: 21
Ref. Save: 21
AB : 21/16 ( that dagger is just for cutting the bread !! )


SKILLS:

- Concentration: 42
- Disable Trap: 40
- Discipline: 43
- Listen: 41
- Lore: 31
- Open Lock: 41
- Search: 40
- Spellcraft: 42
- Spot: 42
- Use Magic Device: 41
- Tumble: 41



------------------------------
BUILD DETAILS
------------------------------

STARTING ABILITIES:
Str: 10
Dex: 14
Con: 14
Int: 18
Wis: 08
Cha: 08



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Lvling guide
------------------------------

Level 1 - Wizard - Spell Focus (Necromancy) - Combat Casting
Level 2 - Wizard
Level 3 - Wizard - Spell Focus (Enchantment)
Level 4 - Wizard +1Int
Level 5 - Wizard - Greater Spell Focus (Enchantment)
Level 6 - Wizard - Greater Spell Focus (Necromancy)
Level 7 - Wizard
Level 8 - Wizard +1Int
Level 9 - Wizard - Weapon Focus (dagger)
Level 10 - Wizard - Extend Spell
Level 11 - Wizard
Level 12 - Wizard +1Int - Spell Focus (Transmutation)
Level 13 - Wizard
Level 14 - Wizard
Level 15 - Wizard - Greater Spell Focus (Transmutation) - Empower Spell
Level 16 - Wizard +1Int
Level 17 - Wizard
Level 18 - Wizard - Toughness
Level 19 - Wizard
Level 20 - Wizard +1Int - Maximize Spell
Level 21 - Wizard - Great Intelligence I
Level 22 - Rogue
Level 23 - Champion of Torm
Level 24 - Champion of Torm +1Int - Great Intelligence II - Epic Spell Focus (Necromancy)
Level 25 - Champion of Torm
Level 26 - Champion of Torm - Epic Spell Focus (Enchantment)
Level 27 - Wizard - Great Intelligence III
Level 28 - Wizard +1Int - Great Intelligence IV
Level 29 - Wizard
Level 30 - Wizard - Great Intelligence V
Level 31 - Wizard - Epic Spell: Epic Warding
Level 32 - Champion of Torm +1Int
Level 33 - Wizard - Great Intelligence VI
Level 34 - Wizard
Level 35 - Wizard - Great Intelligence VII
Level 36 - Wizard +1Int - Great Intelligence VIII
Level 37 - Wizard
Level 38 - Rogue
Level 39 - Wizard - Great Intelligence IX - Great Intelligence X
Level 40 - Champion of Torm +1Int - Epic Spell Focus (Transmutation)











------------------------------
Skill points distribution
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Level 1 - Concentration 4 (4) Spellcraft 4 (4)
Level 2 - Concentration 1 (5) Spellcraft 1 (5)
Level 3 - Concentration 1 (6) Spellcraft 1 (6)
Level 4 - Concentration 1 (7) Spellcraft 1 (7)
Level 5 - Concentration 1 (8) Spellcraft 1 (8)
Level 6 - Concentration 1 (9) Spellcraft 1 (9)
Level 7 - Concentration 1 (10) Spellcraft 1 (10)
Level 8 - Concentration 1 (11) Spellcraft 1 (11)
Level 9 - Concentration 1 (12) Spellcraft 1 (12)
Level 10 - Concentration 1 (13) Spellcraft 1 (13)
Level 11 - Concentration 1 (14) Spellcraft 1 (14)
Level 12 - Concentration 1 (15) Spellcraft 1 (15)
Level 13 - Concentration 1 (16) Spellcraft 1 (16)
Level 14 - Concentration 1 (17) Spellcraft 1 (17)
Level 15 - Concentration 1 (18) Spellcraft 1 (18)
Level 16 - Concentration 1 (19) Spellcraft 1 (19)
Level 17 - Concentration 1 (20) Spellcraft 1 (20)
Level 18 - Concentration 1 (21) Spellcraft 1 (21)
Level 19 - Concentration 1 (22) Spellcraft 1 (22)
Level 20 - Concentration 1 (23) Spellcraft 1 (23)
Level 21 - Concentration 1 (24) Spellcraft 1 (24)
Level 22 - Listen 25 (25) Open Lock 25 (25) Search 25 (25) Spot 25 (25) UMD 25 (25) Tumble 25 (25)
Level 23 - Discipline 16 (16)
Level 24 - Discipline 10 (26)
Level 25 - Discipline 2 (28)
Level 26 - Discipline 1 (29)
Level 27 - Concentration 6 (30) Spellcraft 6 (30)
Level 28 - Concentration 1 (31) Spellcraft 1 (31)
Level 29 - Concentration 1 (32) Spellcraft 1 (32)
Level 30 - Concentration 1 (33) Spellcraft 1 (33)
Level 31 - Concentration 1 (34) Spellcraft 1 (34)
Level 32 - Discipline 6 (35) Spot 10 (35)
Level 33 - Concentration 2 (36) Spellcraft 2 (36)
Level 34 - Concentration 1 (37) Spellcraft 1 (37)
Level 35 - Concentration 1 (38) Spellcraft 1 (38)
Level 36 - Concentration 1 (39) Spellcraft 1 (39)
Level 37 - Concentration 1 (40) Spellcraft 1 (40)
Level 38 - Disable Trap 40 (40) Listen 16 (41) Lore 11 (11) Open Lock 16 (41) Search 15 (40)Spot 6 (41) UMD 16 (41) Tumble 15 (40)
Level 39 - Concentration 2 (42) Spellcraft 2 (42)
Level 40 - Discipline 8 (43) Lore 20 (31) Spot 1 (42)



------------------------------
Gear :
- Robe ( real wizzies dont use heavy armor )
------------------------------




+ That build has the maximum INT a wiz can have. The only way to get 2 more points in INT would be to take the path of bard/RDD.
+ High Spells DC in 3 schools of magic
+ Acceptable saves due to Evasion & high score in spellcraft ( 62 with +12 Int gear )
+ 3 Epic spells Focus & 10 Great Intelligence & Epic warding
+ 320 Hp which is quite correct for a pure caster
+ 11 maxed skills, including tumble & UMD & discipline, all nearly maxed
+ 32 wiz lvls; no need for Spell Pen feats.

- No improve combat casting
- Only 1 Epic spell, though you can take some or any other feats you wish instead of 2 Great INT if you think it's worth it




DC Lvl 9 spells : Necromancy : 39 ( 45 with +12 INT from items )
: Enchantment: 39 ( 45 with +12 INT from items )
Petrification DC spell : 36 ( 42 with +12 INT from items )


Key Spells : Wail of the banshee, Dominate monsters, Petrification.
If those ones arent enough, you still have the whole wiz arsenal spells at your disposal. I doubt that anything but a pure monk could resist to that build.



Comments & criticisms welcome

Edited By Anglashell on 05/11/06 16:41

Well, nothing new here, but a nice build I'd consider dropping something for Epic Warding.
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Quote: Posted 04/26/06 12:05:52 (GMT) -- Ithacan

[...]Harper Scout, the only class so powerful it's capped at five.
[...]

Indeed not new, but strangely never posted before .
That build does have epic warding lvl 31
Quote: Posted 05/11/06 17:00:12 (GMT) -- Anglashell

Indeed not new, but strangely never posted before .
That build does have epic warding lvl 31

Oh. I didn't notice it
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Quote: Posted 04/26/06 12:05:52 (GMT) -- Ithacan

[...]Harper Scout, the only class so powerful it's capped at five.
[...]

Couple of questions:

Why no Autostill? Your AC in robes isn't going to be something to brag about. Either get autostill, or drop rogue for monk and use CoT bonus feats to buff wisdom.

Why waste time with Spell Focus: Enchantment? Evocation or Necromancy would do you a world of good. Or you could drop the feats to help you get Autostill ...

Overall good build, though.
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CATS! It seems obvious that the creator doesn't want to be a direct-damage nuker, and is going to be using death magic, monster charming and holding, and debuffing magic as his primary offenses (probably alongside summons).

However I'd kind of suggest dropping either the enchantment or transmutation focus (probably the transmutation focus because the transmutation school only has four offensive spells in it) and getting epic mage armor and/or mummy dust.
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Experience is the mother of good judgement; bad judgement is the father of experience.
Quote: Posted 05/11/06 20:19:11 (GMT) -- avarielo

Couple of questions:

Why no Autostill? Your AC in robes isn't going to be something to brag about. Either get autostill, or drop rogue for monk and use CoT bonus feats to buff wisdom.

Why waste time with Spell Focus: Enchantment? Evocation or Necromancy would do you a world of good. Or you could drop the feats to help you get Autostill ...

Overall good build, though.
Well, simply coz those 3 classes dont have heavy armor prof for free.
As Xylo noticed it, this is a pure old school wiz build.
Being hit isnt really a problem, as your opponents hurt themselves on your acid & elemental shields. The main problem here is the dmg you take vs your dr and your concentration.
But as I precised it, it's supposed to be a pvm build, you're not supposed to be hit much as you'll always have a pet on your side. This is the purpose of spell focus in enchantment : dominate monster. Why wasting feats for heavy armor, when you'll always have dominated mobs at your disposal who will be your armors.
For pvping, it's obvious that choosing enchantment is totally useless.

I wouldnt get rid of the necromancy & enchantment spell focuses for obvious reasons, but i chose transmutation spell focus for a simple reason :
your int is that high that your spell dc on petrification should work most of the time; moreover it's fairly easy to be immuned to deathspells, it's even easier to be immuned to mindspells, but it's pretty rare to be immuned to petrification, which makes it a lethal spell.
Even if it's just a lvl6 spell, your dc on petrification is 42, which is comparable to most of the builds presented in this guild.
Moreover, as I already said, you still have all the others wiz classical spells for dmg nuking. Choice is yours, the build is flexible enough to allow it.

Moreover, perhaps this builds looks like outdated, but you can look for same builds in this forum; you wont find many wiz builds which ends with 38 in int, with 3 epic spells focuses and epic warding.

Concerning the rogue lvls, well honnestly the 1st draft was with shadow dancer as I thought hips gave a nice addition to it : dominate a mob, and watch them killthemselves hidden in shadows, but I was 1 feat short. The build was probably more balanced reading your comments; it ended with 36 in int, and 1 more epic spell, and with obviously hips.
Monk wasnt that bad too, but I ended by dumping skill points in crafting skills. Rogue is the less original choice I could make, but I consider the wiz/rogue combo as the druid/monk one : cheese

Edited By Anglashell on 05/13/06 21:29

Quote: Being hit isnt really a problem, as your opponents hurt themselves on your acid & elemental shields

Yeah sure, check this one out. I've been killed with that build, and you're nowhere near that resistance and HP.

You should change something for Expertise/Improved Expertise... you might have very strong acid and fire shields, but that doesn't means you can't be killed, in PvM you'll be meat without Epic Warding, DR spells get wasted by mobs quickly, Improved Expertise can be used casting, and higher AC will surely help you survive since your HP is low, as usual in casters, damaging casting is better than damaging recieving, it's safer.

It's good and all... I wouldn't really know if it's an uncommon build or not... nice DCs.
Quote: Posted 05/13/06 21:15:13 (GMT) -- Anglashell

Quote: Posted 05/11/06 20:19:11 (GMT) -- avarielo

Couple of questions:

Why no Autostill? Your AC in robes isn't going to be something to brag about. Either get autostill, or drop rogue for monk and use CoT bonus feats to buff wisdom.

Why waste time with Spell Focus: Enchantment? Evocation or Necromancy would do you a world of good. Or you could drop the feats to help you get Autostill ...

Overall good build, though.
Well, simply coz those 3 classes dont have heavy armor prof for free.
As Xylo noticed it, this is a pure old school wiz build.
Being hit isnt really a problem, as your opponents hurt themselves on your acid & elemental shields. The main problem here is the dmg you take vs your dr and your concentration.
But as I precised it, it's supposed to be a pvm build, you're not supposed to be hit much as you'll always have a pet on your side. This is the purpose of spell focus in enchantment : dominate monster. Why wasting feats for heavy armor, when you'll always have dominated mobs at your disposal who will be your armors.
For pvping, it's obvious that choosing enchantment is totally useless.

I wouldnt get rid of the necromancy & enchantment spell focuses for obvious reasons, but i chose transmutation spell focus for a simple reason :
your int is that high that your spell dc on petrification should work most of the time; moreover it's fairly easy to be immuned to deathspells, it's even easier to be immuned to mindspells, but it's pretty rare to be immuned to petrification, which makes it a lethal spell.
Even if it's just a lvl6 spell, your dc on petrification is 42, which is comparable to most of the builds presented in this guild.
Moreover, as I already said, you still have all the others wiz classical spells for dmg nuking. Choice is yours, the build is flexible enough to allow it.

Moreover, perhaps this builds looks like outdated, but you can look for same builds in this forum; you wont find many wiz builds which ends with 38 in int, with 3 epic spells focuses and epic warding.

Concerning the rogue lvls, well honnestly the 1st draft was with shadow dancer as I thought hips gave a nice addition to it : dominate a mob, and watch them killthemselves hidden in shadows, but I was 1 feat short. The build was probably more balanced reading your comments; it ended with 36 in int, and 1 more epic spell, and with obviously hips.
Monk wasnt that bad too, but I ended by dumping skill points in crafting skills. Rogue is the less original choice I could make, but I consider the wiz/rogue combo as the druid/monk one : cheese

CoT gets medium armor and shields, which is good enough to warrant Autostill.

In PvM, the enchantment focus is only moderately good, but dominate monster doesn't last long enough to be worth it until you're high level, and high level PvM environments are not exceptionally easy to find - in PvP, you should drop it for Autostill.

The petrification trick is handy, and the good evocation spells don't have saves anyway, so transmutation is good. Never considered that.
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CATS! Petrification can be problematic, however. I seem to recall that any items carried by a monster that is petrified are permanently lost. So you can accidentally destroy plot items that way if I'm not mistaken.

It's possible I am mistaken, of course
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Experience is the mother of good judgement; bad judgement is the father of experience.
Quote: Posted 05/13/06 23:35:48 (GMT) -- Thaxll'ssyllia

Quote: Being hit isnt really a problem, as your opponents hurt themselves on your acid & elemental shields

Yeah sure, check this one out. I've been killed with that build, and you're nowhere near that resistance and HP.

You should change something for Expertise/Improved Expertise... you might have very strong acid and fire shields, but that doesn't means you can't be killed, in PvM you'll be meat without Epic Warding, DR spells get wasted by mobs quickly, Improved Expertise can be used casting, and higher AC will surely help you survive since your HP is low, as usual in casters, damaging casting is better than damaging recieving, it's safer.

It's good and all... I wouldn't really know if it's an uncommon build or not... nice DCs.

Well you can swap toughness for expertise lvl18, and 2 great int post epic to take imp expertise & epic mage armor if you feel it's worth it. Though personnaly, if I had to swap some feats to adapt the build, I'd rather take epic skill focus concentration to solve the issue you raise : not being systematically disrupted once your dr spells are gone, and / or hellball as an emergency exit spell. Once all the mobs are kded, just cast a GS, find a place to rest, and go back to the fight...But dont forget that between the bibgy lines of spells, the dominated mob at your side, and your high dc death spells, I doubt you'll oftenly be caught in the middle of a melee fight...

I usually dont take expertise/imp expertise. You may confirm it, but apparently, the extra AC provided by imp expertise doesnt work on every pw. Some pw even consider it as an exploit; I tested it on the pw I play on, and expertise is disrupted as soon as you start casting.
This is why I didnt take it, as the expertise issue basically depends of the pw you're playing on, but isnt a "waranty" ac. I consider it as a local factor, then it's up to the player to adapt the build to the pw he plays on...

Concerning the petrification, I know that if you petrify something on a pw which isnt setup in hardcore rules, logout and come back immediatly after, the duration becomes permanent but I never tested the loss of plot items. I guess ( I hope ) it was fixed...

Edited By Anglashell on 05/14/06 07:35

Actually expertise gets cancelled after you are finished casting the spell on those PW where the expertise switch is changed. Which means: you cast the spell in expertise mode and immediately after the spell is cast and expertise gets cancelled you reactivate it with the hotkey.

There's another expertise exploit: you can move around in expertise mode by activating it (by hotkey) immediately after you click on your next waypoint with your mouse.

Cheers,
Kail
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To hear the sound of Freedom, many gave their lives
They fought for you and me
Those memories will always live inside us, and now it's our time to be free What do you want Weapon Focus for? Take CoT on lvl 20, to get an epic feat for your bonus feat at wiz20. It will cost you only 1 will save, but increase Fort save (right?) by 2.

Other than that you could switch WF for expertise too. Don't trust your reciprocal shields to keep you alive either.

Other than that it seems focused, and well-planned. Kudos.

Grim
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Quote: Posted 03/06/06 18:56:45 (GMT) -- FinneousPJ
Trollborn Asgardian by the master of the Norse legends, Grimnir himself!

You must have Weapon Focus in a melee weapon to qualify for CoT (it's a prerequisite).
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Where I'm playing now: World of Greyhawk. I like the premise of this build. Very good job utilizing the CoT for the Epic Spell Foci. I see 2 things that I would change, not sure if you contemplated it or not. I would drop the Combat Casting feat at level 1, and rearrange your current feats to keep them all in. You now have freed up 1 feat. Take your first CoT level on level 20, and move Wizard level 20 to character level 21, you now have moved that 1 extra feat to Epics, this will allow you to pick up one more Epic Spell without changing much of your build.
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If everyone is thinking alike, then someone is failing to think. I dont see what all the fuss is about over the low AC.

Theres this thing called a potion... and yeah...
Quote: Posted 05/15/06 11:20:10 (GMT) -- DarkInfernoo

I dont see what all the fuss is about over the low AC.

Theres this thing called a potion... and yeah...

Because low AC makes you very vulnerable to knockdown attacks, and you can't drink potions or cast spells while you're on your butt. And once you get knocked down the first time, it's generally easy for the opponent to keep spamming KDs on you because while you're down, they get an attack bonus.

It also makes you easy to land critical hits on (low AC means that more threat rolls will pass for the attacker).
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Experience is the mother of good judgement; bad judgement is the father of experience. That, with the hp are the usual weaknesses of pure casters builds anyway...You still have a high discipline, tumble, interposing hand spell, you can buff your dex, and your umd allows you to use monk robes, or any AC item you can find. Moreover, each time you're hit, you deal 1d6+64 from mestil + 1d6+32 from elemntal shield.

I agree it's far from keeping you alive once you're kded, but dont forget too that a wiz is rarely in melee anyway...I had a quick look at the magical marauder build for example. With a mundane full plate, that spellsword build has a an ac of 21-23 depending of the version; the exalted sorceress build has an ac of 22.
Using mundane robe, that build has an ac of 20. My point is that this build's ac isnt that low. I admit it's nothing compared to pure dexer's ac, but it's more than acceptable.

It's a wiz build, and then it has the weaknesses of pure casters...Though honnestly, lowering your dc by taking the still spell path wont make lot of differences imo.
Your main defense is that, most of the time, most of your opponent will either die on your 1st deathspell, be hold through petrification/bigby spells, or attack your dominated mob.

Concerning the expertise exploit, I doubt it really works, if for example you're spamming igms on your target...I mean you'll have so many spell slots, that you may quickly get bored of activating it for each spell...

But I think we're slowly falling in the pvp talk by focusing on knocking down the wizard and critting him to death; aren't we?

Edited By Anglashell on 05/15/06 20:27

Well no, actually the NWN standard combat AI will use knockdown prolifically if it thinks it can land it based on your AC. In fact you can have no discipline skill at all, but if you have a high AC the standard AI won't think of trying to KD you (even though it would definitely lay you out if it got lucky).
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Experience is the mother of good judgement; bad judgement is the father of experience.
Quote: Posted 05/15/06 20:02:29 (GMT) -- Anglashell

That, with the hp are the usual weaknesses of pure casters builds anyway...You still have a high discipline, tumble, interposing hand spell, you can buff your dex, and your umd allows you to use monk robes, or any AC item you can find. Moreover, each time you're hit, you deal 1d6+64 from mestil + 1d6+32 from elemntal shield.

If you're so desperate to use robes, I'd say you should drop rogue for monk. You lose 7-8 AB you could get with a shield in a +5 environment, but you'll be able to buff wisdom and dex for AC.

Quote: Posted 05/15/06 20:02:29 (GMT) -- Anglashell

I agree it's far from keeping you alive once you're kded, but dont forget too that a wiz is rarely in melee anyway...I had a quick look at the magical marauder build for example. With a mundane full plate, that spellsword build has a an ac of 21-23 depending of the version; the exalted sorceress build has an ac of 22.
Using mundane robe, that build has an ac of 20. My point is that this build's ac isnt that low. I admit it's nothing compared to pure dexer's ac, but it's more than acceptable.

If you're relying on mestil and elemental shield at all, you should be in melee. Besides, it's simple for a character with monk speed to get into melee with a mage.

The Marauder and Sorceress are not examples of the "best" builds, per se. They are examples of builds that were thought cool. (Also, the sorceress has an AC of 29 with +8 tumble and a tower shield).

20 AC is nothing compared to many strength-based characters' AC. Point being, you're missing 15-16 AC you could be getting with autostill, scalemail and a tower shield.

Quote: Posted 05/15/06 20:02:29 (GMT) -- Anglashell

It's a wiz build, and then it has the weaknesses of pure casters...Though honnestly, lowering your dc by taking the still spell path wont make lot of differences imo.
Your main defense is that, most of the time, most of your opponent will either die on your 1st deathspell, be hold through petrification/bigby spells, or attack your dominated mob.

You're spells do well, but more focused mages will simply beat you until you die, and many fighters can make DC 45 fortitude saves, pound through any mobs you have, and overall make you hurt. Of course, given that it's built for a PvM environment, I guess these drawbacks aren't as dangerous.

I don't mean to say it's a bad build. I like it, it has style, but it has some weaknesses ...
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CATS!
Quote: Posted 05/15/06 20:02:29 (GMT) -- Anglashell

That, with the hp are the usual weaknesses of pure casters builds anyway...You still have a high discipline

Actually, you don't. Only the builder of the Exalted Sorc believes 43 discipline is good(even 53 is quite low). But in reality it's practically useless even in PvM. But you often have leftover skillpoints so you might as well take it.

It's a good build, but don't believe neither your AC or your discipline will save you.
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I see the fear you have inside, you can run but never hide.
I will hunt you down and tear you limb from limb.

I run the Pre-Epic Builders guild. Join and share your experience. Good points Grimnir, but then again if a Wizard is depending on his AC or discipline to save him in the first place, then I would suggest a career change for him
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If everyone is thinking alike, then someone is failing to think.