Introduction: Twilight of the Idols (yeah, I've been reading Nietzsche again )
This build was discussed in this thread and I decided to make my version. I'd like to thank everyone who contributed to that thread, as I was inspired by it. I built this, tested some, changed a few, and now I'm pretty contented
I was quite short on attribute points with this build -- STR for AB, CON for HP, INT for spells, WIS for spells, CHA for Divine abilities, but in the end I think it turned out pretty nicely. The AB is too low for most but low magic environments (as the buffs count more there), but it's still a decent build and should be fun to play. The only thing I feel really lessens the enjoyment is that you get gain your best spellcasting ability in late epics, and your caster level is still relatively low.
NOTE: if you think the last Paladin level is cheesy, feel free to take it before you change to LN (i.e. before your first PM level); you lose your Taunt/Discipline skill dump this way, however.
% are optional feats, other choices might be IKD, a metamagic feat, Improved Critical, whatever you enjoy using.
Has the spell slots of a 17th level Wizard, i.e. has 9th level spells.
With Extra Turning he has 13 Turn Undead uses per day; without, he has 7.
Distribution ------------ Paladin 15/Wizard 9/PM 16
Statistics:
AB -- 27 Base +5 Strength +3 Epic Weapon Focus +1 Epic Prowess -- 36 +5 GMV +5 Divine Favor +2 Bull's Strength +1 Bless +1 Aid +1 Prayer -- 51 +6 Taunt +4 Smite -- 61 +4 Smite with buffed CHA -- 65
Not truly masterful, but nice enough with buffs and Smiting (low magic environment, please). And Taunt, of course! Max AB with True Strike & Bull's 58, max AB ever 62 -- plus up to +10 from Smite makes it 72. Add Taunt, and we get 78 effectively.
Damage ------ 1-8 (using Longsword) +5 -- 6-13
+9 Flame Weapon +5 GMV +5 Divine Favor +4 Divine Might +1d4 Flame Weapon +3 Deafening Clang +2 Bull's Strength +1 Prayer -- 30-33 extra damage from buffs +4 Divine Might with buffed CHA -- 34-37
Final buffed damage 40-50.
+15 damage on Smite, three times per day.
Phew, I didn't forget anything, did I?
AC -- 10 Base -1 Dexterity +4 Tumble +2 Armor Skin +10 Pale Master +8 Full Plate +3 Tower Shield -- 36 +4 Mage Armor +4 Haste +4 Divine Shield +4 Shadow Shield +3 Shield +2 Cat's Grace -- 57 +4 Divine Shield with buffed CHA -- 61
Skills (239 points) ------ Skills suggested are Concentration (25 to get ICC), Discipline, Taunt, Tumble (CC to 20), Spellcraft for saves, Heal.
Suggestions, corrections, ideas?
Thank you. _________________
Quote: Posted 04/26/06 12:05:52 (GMT) -- Ithacan
[...]Harper Scout, the only class so powerful it's capped at five. [...]
Wow...your unbuffed AB is 36. What happens if someone drops a Mordenkainen's disjunction on you? _________________ CATS!
I'd actually think the original thread-poster's level split was a better idea. I think you just lose too much AB by going spellsword and pumping your Int with this build
I'd just take the minimum wizard levels and sacrifice spellcasting, instead pushing the PM levels for the most bonus AC. Or alternately, taking few PM levels and more paladin levels, maybe changing the other class to sorcerer if I were going to cast and using divine shield/might.
But you have an interesting compromise here, certainly seems like a fun build, if not the strongest. _________________ Experience is the mother of good judgement; bad judgement is the father of experience.
Aye, I would think that the natural class split would be a Pally/Sorc/PM here. More synergy, and 1 less stat to have to pump. Or, in those crazy worlds where alignment changing is done easily, a Pally/Bard/PM. Now that would be cheesy, Max taunt,tumble, UMD, curse, , bard song, and then immune to crits and high AC to go along with it. Of course, the bad part with Sorc is that you won't get the PM spell slots added in, but I would use this guy more for melee anyways. _________________ Untutored courage is useless in the face of educated bullets.
I'd actually think the original thread-poster's level split was a better idea. I think you just lose too much AB by going spellsword and pumping your Int with this build
Or alternately, taking few PM levels and more paladin levels, maybe changing the other class to sorcerer if I were going to cast and using divine shield/might.
Paladin/Sorcerer has been done all too many times now. That's a nice idea, however; there are no builds that cast as a 20th (or even higher-than-15th) level Sorcerer). But yeah, Paladin/Sorcerer has some obvious synergy -- that's why it's just too easy!
Less PM levels means no Epic Spells Granted, my EW duration is quite low but it can still be a life-saver. I could always pick another Epic Spell over it, of course - or two (dropping the GSTR).
But you have an interesting compromise here, certainly seems like a fun build, if not the strongest.
Thanks. I'm quite sure it'd work in low magic. I haven't played it ground up, obviously, but I tested the level 40 build in a +3 magic setting and he did good. I had my AC in the 60s and AB in the 50s. And that's not counting the spellpower I had with 9th level Arcane casting. Not necessarily a powerbuild, but decent enough _________________
Quote: Posted 04/26/06 12:05:52 (GMT) -- Ithacan
[...]Harper Scout, the only class so powerful it's capped at five. [...]
Edited By FinneousPJ on 05/13/06 10:00
Well, I also see it as a melee, I'd actually take more Paladin pre-epic instead of Pale Master, to max BAB, but you'd lose spells. A tricky combination, since I don't really see Pale Master as a good casting option, your spells would be so much stronger with a Paladin 20 / Sorcerer 20, but whatever, I'm just rambling, I don't intend to change the purpose of the build.
The stats are good, however, you could get overall higher ratings if you change CHA for STR and forget about Divine feats (which would make Extra Turning and Extra Smiting almost useless, I'd change them anyway lol), granted, you lose Divine Shield AC and saves, but the damage will be the same and the AB will come on every hit and not only on Smites, apart from that you won't be relying on Divine and CHA buffing, also freeing feats for more metamagic, weapon focus, improved critical or blind-fight.
Finding the balance is often the problem in such builds without the obvious synergies. You say yourself you had tried, changed, tweaked and finally you found where it balances out best. A few more Pally spells would be nice, but the only way is to lose some PM-levels for more Wizard and pally, thus you lose Epic spells. It's okay as it is, methinks.
You prove yet again that you are a good caster-builder, buddy, it actuaaly works out way better than one could hope for.
As for Pal/Sorc/PM been done to many times: When I posted mine, there was only 1 other, and that had 1 pally lvl for saves. Pal/Bard/PM has been done a few, though. _________________ Dragonlance ROH is back, better than before! and I spend a little time here WoG
Finding the balance is often the problem in such builds without the obvious synergies. You say yourself you had tried, changed, tweaked and finally you found where it balances out best. A few more Pally spells would be nice, but the only way is to lose some PM-levels for more Wizard and pally, thus you lose Epic spells. It's okay as it is, methinks.
You prove yet again that you are a good caster-builder, buddy, it actuaaly works out way better than one could hope for.
Thanks.
Quote: Grim
As for Pal/Sorc/PM been done to many times: When I posted mine, there was only 1 other, and that had 1 pally lvl for saves. Pal/Bard/PM has been done a few, though.
Perhaps
Quote: Thax
The stats are good, however, you could get overall higher ratings if you change CHA for STR and forget about Divine feats (which would make Extra Turning and Extra Smiting almost useless, I'd change them anyway lol), granted, you lose Divine Shield AC and saves, but the damage will be the same and the AB will come on every hit and not only on Smites, apart from that you won't be relying on Divine and CHA buffing, also freeing feats for more metamagic, weapon focus, improved critical or blind-fight.
Well, sure, you could drop all the Paladin abilities, and change Paladin for Fighter, but that's a whole different build, isn't it Naw, though, I could consider dropping CHA to 14 and raising STR by four. I still prefer being able to use the CHA based buffs, and Smites. _________________
Quote: Posted 04/26/06 12:05:52 (GMT) -- Ithacan
[...]Harper Scout, the only class so powerful it's capped at five. [...]
Introduction: Twilight of the Idols, non-caster version
Well, I decided to make him CHA based, because IMO, if you're not using the Paladin's class abilities, only the buff, you're better off with a Cleric anyway _________________
Quote: Posted 04/26/06 12:05:52 (GMT) -- Ithacan
[...]Harper Scout, the only class so powerful it's capped at five. [...]
)
Wow...your unbuffed AB is 36. What happens if someone drops a Mordenkainen's disjunction on you? 
