1st: Mage Armor, Prot from Alignment, Balagarn's Horn, Identify 2nd: Bulls Strength, Cats Grace, Clarity, Eagles Splendour, See Invisibility 3rd: Greater Magic Weapon, Keen Edge, Wounding Whispers, Find Traps, Haste 4th: Improved Invisibility, Warcry, Dismissal, Legend Lore, Hold Monster, Dominate Person 5th: Ethereal Visage, Greater Dispelling, Healing Circle, Mind Fog, Summons V 6th: Dirge, Energy Buffer, Ice Storm, Mass Haste
Side Note 1: Scribe Scroll can easily be dropped for IKD, but in low magic environments Scribe Scroll is a godsend for Bards. This allows him more flexibility with his spell book management, and will also allow him to cast those 6th level spells as if they were Stilled. Say hello to Dirge and Ice Storms that can be cast at your Bard level while wearing armor and shield. Other spells worthy of scribing are Wounding Whispers, See Invisibility, Keen Edge, etc., which will allow more Stilled/Extended versions of Bulls/Cats/Eagles, etc.
Side Note 2: Also, this character never achieves high enough Perform naturally to sing a 29th level Bard Song. Without items, the best he can manage is a 21st level Song, followed by a 23rd level Curse. He/she will need some augmentation to achieve a 75 Perform to pull out the +6AC, +14 all skills. At 58 without items, one will only need to find 17 more skill points.
Side Note 3: In addition, only 1 Harper level is taken. This is to get Lasting Inspiration as soon as possible, while yet still maintaining General Epic Feat conservation. Taking the other 4 Harper levels didn't really add anything to the build, while 4 more Bard levels added an extra feat, longer spell durations and a potentially better battle speech. I saw little interest in the stacking Cats or Eagles, nor in the potion crafting or Invisibility, or in the Save gimmicks. The Bard already does all these things well enough.
Side Note 4: Crafting Skills have been selected due to many PWs using CEP, and it's always fun to customize your characters. _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
Nicely done.
Solid epic bard build... the perform requirements do get quite out of hand for the bard song, though I suppose a charisma-centric bard would be able to keep up with them.
Your saves against non-magic special attacks look a little worrisome. Spells should be more than okay because of your spellcraft bonus however.
I wonder if you can counterspell normally in armor, I have read posts that said you can still fight while in counterspell mode (strangely). That might be a very interesting tactic for our plate-wearing buff-centric bards. I'll have to test it when I'm done spreading chaos on yon forums. _________________ Experience is the mother of good judgement; bad judgement is the father of experience.
gal·lo·glas n. An armed retainer or mercenary in the service of an Irish chieftain
...
*shrug* _________________ They were all dead. The final gunshot was an exclamation mark to everything that had led up to this point. I released my finger from the trigger. And then it was all over. The storm seemed to lose its frenzy. The ragged clouds gave way to the stars above.
Nice work grizz. Being a huge fan of Bards and HS, I really like the use of these classes in this build. Very cool. _________________ Where I'm playing now: World of Greyhawk.
As usual, there's not much more to add to your builds Griz. Well done.
Cheers, Kail _________________ Stand and fight, live by your heart Always one more try, I'm not afraid to die Stand and fight, say what you feel Born with a Heart of Steel!
when i read galloglas the first thing that came to my mind was "what's a galloglas?" the second thing was "now use it in a story."
as for the rest of the build, solid. personally, i would take the extra HS. slightly lower spell dc and the bard song aside, the stacking eagle's will boost the bard song ability. but if you tested it out, i'll take it as gospel.
also, i believe that dirge is castable in armour. no need to still it.
but as usual a solid build. a little light on the hp though, for one of yours.
-cs
Curious use of the HS, never thought of it, weird though, since you're using two feats to gain one, HS 2 is nice, but you'd lose a feat from either Bard or Fighter, so I stand that it's an ok desition.
Sure, pretty solid, I just don't like longswords..... but a great build.
Your saves against non-magic special attacks look a little worrisome.
You're like me, Xy. Saves are always worrisome. I could be playing a Pally with a 26 Charisma and a 92Fort save, and walk into a room of Basilsks and literally run in panic for fear of rolling a "1" against the oodles and oodles of Red Petri-eyebeams of Doom. In the end, his saves didn't turn out that bad, and he has plenty of ways to supplement them through spells and UMD.
when i read galloglas the first thing that came to my mind was "what's a galloglas?" the second thing was "now use it in a story."
My sincerest apologies, Christian. I actually wrote one, but I was a bit ashamed of it really. But I haven't given up.
as for the rest of the build, solid. personally, i would take the extra HS. slightly lower spell dc and the bard song aside, the stacking eagle's will boost the bard song ability. (/quote-incomplete)The stacking Eagles, at most, is going to grant another +1/+2 modifier to the skill check. Not worth it really, particularly considering that Harper's Splendour will be good for only one Song, if it even lasts that long. Combined with it's limited usage, I just couldn't be sold on 4 more levels of HS.
Quote: also, i believe that dirge is castable in armour. no need to still it.
I think you're mixing it up with War Cry. Dirge requires Somatic, but it cannot be stilled anyway due to it's level. What you do with Dirge is Scribe a 10-pack of scrolls, and then cast it freely whenever you want.
Quote: a little light on the hp though, for one of yours.
Ouch! I gave him Toughness and a 16Con. Not much more I could do really, except stop at Bard25 and add 4 levels of Fighter for 2 Epic Toughs and +16 more hp. Or, I suppose another alternative would be to go Bard23/Harper1/Ftr16 and add 3 ETs, which would then give you about 524hp. Maybe drop Str 2 points and raise Con to 18 and then bump it to 564. Toss in another 30 or so from Bardsong and now you have 600 without items. Perhaps that is a thought.
Just wait until NWN2 when Bards will have their d8 hit points. _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
Ariel, Ookla, RIDE!
Well I tried to test counterspelling in armor while fighting and it didn't seem to do anything... I activated counterspell mode after clicking a target to attack, and it didn't stop attacking, but I also didn't notice any spells being countered and no counterspell rolls were made in the combat log.
It wasn't an exhaustive test but I'm gonna guess it doesn't work. _________________ Experience is the mother of good judgement; bad judgement is the father of experience.
Quote: Posted 05/26/06 00:57:47 (GMT) -- grizzled_dwarflord ... My sincerest apologies, Christian. I actually wrote one, but I was a bit ashamed of it really. But I haven't given up.
hey, don't be ashamed. if its mediocre for you its probably amazing. your "average" bulds tend to be superb in their fields of interest. i never say no to a dwarflord original
Quote: The stacking Eagles, at most, is going to grant another +1/+2 modifier to the skill check. Not worth it really, particularly considering that Harper's Splendour will be good for only one Song, if it even lasts that long. Combined with it's limited usage, I just couldn't be sold on 4 more levels of HS.
i hadn't even thought about the duration of HS's eagle splendour. good point. i think that you are quite right in your decision here.
Quote: I think you're mixing it up with War Cry. Dirge requires Somatic, but it cannot be stilled anyway due to it's level. What you do with Dirge is Scribe a 10-pack of scrolls, and then cast it freely whenever you want.
ah. that is what i was thinking of. mmmm.... 10-pack. *drools* again, you take me to the learnin' tree.
Quote: Ouch! I gave him Toughness and a 16Con. Not much more I could do really, except stop at Bard25 and add 4 levels of Fighter for 2 Epic Toughs and +16 more hp. Or, I suppose another alternative would be to go Bard23/Harper1/Ftr16 and add 3 ETs, which would then give you about 524hp. Maybe drop Str 2 points and raise Con to 18 and then bump it to 564. Toss in another 30 or so from Bardsong and now you have 600 without items. Perhaps that is a thought. ...
counter ouch. it was just a thought. but the point is made. and i forgot about the 30 from song. couple that with the 'damage resistance' generated by the song and you are actually doing alright.
i only meant that you are well known for your 500 hp rogues, so i figured a 400ish bard was below normal.
well, yet again, my backside is raw from a switch off the ole learnin' tree.
and if you do ever get that tale, i will be most interested.
-cs
Quote: Posted 05/25/06 21:15:35 (GMT) -- Cinnabar Din
Nice work grizz. Being a huge fan of Bards and HS, I really like the use of these classes in this build. Very cool.
Oh yes. _________________
Quote: Posted 04/26/06 12:05:52 (GMT) -- Ithacan
[...]Harper Scout, the only class so powerful it's capped at five. [...]
Another well built mix. As we've come to expect from you.
Currently loving the Harper Scout (as may have been noticed by some of my last efforts!).
One thing I would ask is why you take Great Charisma I so late in the build?
CHA is only 15 until 33rd level (Bard 26) - unable to use 6th level bard spells until this point.
Is this deliberate? As I can't understand why?!
Well since you can't cast level 6 spells in heavy armor, and the two level 6 spells you'll want to cast most often are Dirge and Ice Storm - ie, not buffs - I doubt enabling them is a high priority for this build. I can see leaving them till later. _________________ Experience is the mother of good judgement; bad judgement is the father of experience.
Well since you can't cast level 6 spells in heavy armor, and the two level 6 spells you'll want to cast most often are Dirge and Ice Storm - ie, not buffs - I doubt enabling them is a high priority for this build. I can see leaving them till later.
They can be used for stilled 5th level spells, though I can't really remember which would be needed to still. 16 CHA should be taken earlier, I feel. Other than that, gimme a story. _________________ I see the fear you have inside, you can run but never hide. I will hunt you down and tear you limb from limb.
I run the Pre-Epic Builders guild. Join and share your experience.
One thing I would ask is why you take Great Charisma I so late in the build?
CHA is only 15 until 33rd level (Bard 26) - unable to use 6th level bard spells until this point.
Is this deliberate? As I can't understand why?!
It is not where I wanted to take it, I assure you, and it was deliberate. In order to achieve 30 Str, six general feats had to be reserved for Great Strengths, leaving only room from Bard/Harper bonus feats to raise Charisma. Harper1 has to be LI, and Bard23 has to be ESF: Perform. I wish it were otherwise. If somebody can find a more workable solution, I'm all ears. There might be room to reconfigure since EWF was taken on a General Feat level. I'll have a look at it this weekend.
Ariel, Ookla, RIDE!
Interesting build, typically when one sees so many bard levels one sees a dex based build as opposed to strength. Though, when one considers the lack of offense in the bard spell book, you proabably don't need to cast too many spells in combat anyway so casting stilled is fine. The build looks solid, though you could take 4 more fighter levels pre-epic to take IKD and improved critical at the cost of two great strengths (same ab, -1 damage which should balance out with the extra crits). It might delay the development of your bard skills a bit, but it would improve your fighting skills at lower levels.
I understand how you feel about the story. I've been working on one recently, Harpers are damn difficult to write around. _________________ Two wrongs don't make a right but three lefts do.
The build looks solid, though you could take 4 more fighter levels pre-epic to take IKD and improved critical
Thanks, Mith. I intentionally foreclosed on Improved Crit because of Keen Edge. It more or less replaces the feat, and a 17-20 crit range with a longsword is right about where you want it. Those who have ACs lower than that to make a 15-20 range useful are either immune to crits,(undead) or are going to die in 1-2 swings anyway.
And as you mentioned, taking more Ftr levels does delay the Bard maturation, but I don't think that adding more fighter levels makes him a better fighter. I think frontloading Bard levels makes him a better fighter. He is able to get max return on GMW pre-epic, more spells with which to buff himself, and he has the best Bard/Curse Song available in pre-epic.
I think Samphus found the one thing that still bothers me, though, and that is that last Charisma point and how to take it earlier. For whatever reason, I now have a mental block and can no longer look at it logically. _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
Ariel, Ookla, RIDE!
Can i just ask....
What does the epic will do?? Could it be droped for another esf? or would that completly mess it up
What does the epic will do?? Could it be droped for another esf? or would that completly mess it up
Epic will is taken to make the character's will save better, of course. You can take another bard bonus feat there, but Griz and I are both fans of having good saves - will and fort in particular. _________________ Experience is the mother of good judgement; bad judgement is the father of experience.
hear hear Xylo
You are not alone
It should also be noted that with Lasting Inspiration on both bard and Curse Song, his skills will all be at least +12 while opponents will all be at least -12 and beyond. That is why, with the exception of Perform, it pretty much doesn't make any sense to take ESF in anything. _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
it was just a thought. but the point is made. and i forgot about the 30 from song. couple that with the 'damage resistance' generated by the song and you are actually doing alright.