Epic Character Builds - The Death Dealer Created by: Deborah “Tyr”
He is a blood-thirsty assassin, an epic monk turned mercenary, and pirate (fighter) commander, but it's not that he lacks charm or grace. With impeccable martial arts mastery, and devout attention to anatomy and stealth, he’s mastered the art of death: his palm incredibly swift, more deadly than any blade, with a body tougher than plate armor.
As an epic monk, bolstered by levels of fighter and the prestige class of assassin, this character excels in the art of dealing quick, lethal blows, and takes great pride in his work.
The horror he’d see in the eyes of his victims, their blood-soaked bodies crumpling to the ground as they gasped their last breath, pleased him. Satisfied with his kill, he’d soon disappear into the shadows, making his getaway under cover of stealth, and be far, far away before any hint of the crime was discovered. Yes, he was a murderer, a cold-blooded mercenary, and he loved it. And this, his love of the “kill”, the rush he always experienced when running his victims through, when toying with them like a dire tiger mauling a tiny mouse, might even have been forgiven by the Order. Nothing wrong, perhaps, with a devout monk, a monk who had trained hard to be a stealth killer, taking a little pride in his work; but only if it was done to advance the Order. Unforgivable, however, was his love of gold, and the way it shimmered. It was gold that made Death Dealer sing, for which he was cast from the Order.
At first, he was upset enough to plot revenge, but he soon got on with his life as a mercenary. His title as outlaw, atop his already impeccable credentials, clearly worked to his favor in his line of work. In time, he would receive a special assignment, one which would lead him back to the Order, on a mission to terminate his old Master. His skills having been honed since that day, so long ago, when he was cast out, Death Dealer was up for the challenge; he would have his revenge.
It was quite easy for Death Dealer to enter his old temple, unnoticed by a single soul, but the Master was out. So, Death Dealer waited. Not a sound, not a stir did he make; patiently, he waited. When the Master did return, on entering his room, the trap was instantly sprung. Like a bolt of lighting, and with shocking precision, Death Dealer leaped. In an instant, he had bested his former master; it took but a single blow. The dying man whispered, one final breath: “Why kill me now, after all of these years?”
Perhaps, out of respect, the Death Dealer responded with an answer. “You have trained me well, Master, from whom I learned great discipline; I take my vengeance now because it tastes sweeter when cold, and because your death is finally worth something to me in gold.”
The Death Dealer is evil because he is a mercenary, a highly trained killer-for-hire: his loyalties are bought and sold by only the highest of bidders.
Special note from the author: the Death Dealer is based on a real-life, historical figure: Eustace the Monk. Dubbed also the “Black Monk,” he was the son of a noble, spending time at a monastery before becoming a pirate commander, and mercenary. His ability to seemingly appear out of nowhere, and fighting prowess, resulted in many believing he practiced sorcery; he was an assassin, an epic monk turned mercenary, who satisfied his thirst for gold by selling his services to the highest bidder. Being one of the most notorious mercenaries of his day, he is the perfect medieval outlaw, and an irresistible villain-type character.
Key Advantages • Against his/her targets, the Death Dealer is deadly; with his epic stealth and +7d6 sneak attack, coupled with monk speed, stunning fists and quivering palm abilities, his/her first strike on a victim, like that of a poisonous viper laying in wait, is often all that it takes to bring down his victim. • Epic Stealth and Speed: It is far easier to win a battle if your opponent not only never gets a chance to strike back, but doesn’t even see you coming, with the Death Dealer’s Move Silently and Hide Skills being maximized, accordingly. In addition to many years of rogue (mercenary) training, he/she is an epic monk, having high concealment, monk speed, and other special abilities. Like a shark circling from deep beneath the water, Death Dealer’s victims are unaware of the danger they’re in, being unable to see him until after he strikes, when it’s too late. • High AC, Great Health (Immunities), and High HPs: in addition to being essentially immune to poison, disease, mind-spells, and also having a naturally high magic resistance, the Death Dealer is the perfect picture of health and vitality. Likewise, he is a bastion of defense: with improved evasion, damage reduction, epic dodge, and damage-reduction abilities, he is unable to roll away from most confrontations unscathed. In addition, she/he has high AC and tumbling skills, which have been maximized, such that . • Epic Martial Arts Fighting Ability: The Death Dealer is a double-black belt, martial arts master, able to disarm the mightiest of foes (improved disarm), and out maneuver a dragon (improved knockdown). Whether bare-fisted or wielding a Kama, the Death Dealer has trained long and hard, such that he/she is able to strike fast, strike hard, and strike often. • Lethal Unarmed Attacks: To be able to use unarmed attacks that cause as much damage in combat as a trained fighter having a magic weapon is an incredible feat, and it is a feat that the Death Dealer has assuredly mastered. With epic prowess, epic focus/epic specialization, monk speed, sneak damage, and extra bonus attacks per round, the Death Dealer is lethal.
Key Disadvantages: • The path of the assassin/mercenary is one that the Death Dealer has mastered, but it is not for the faint of heart. It is a difficult path, requiring discipline and patience, for it is fraught with danger. Of those who apply, very few will be considered, and even fewer still will survive. Are you up for a challenge? • Low DC (Stunning Fist) Save: this unique attack works fine to stun your foes at the lower levels, as does the quivering palm (touch of death). As you level, it becomes more difficult, but by no means impossible, to make full use of these feats against your foes, to the extent they fail their fortitude save; you can boost your ability and raise the stakes so to speak by increasing your wisdom, which WIS-boost will (just like DEX), have the nice, dual-purpose of further boosting your naturally high AC. This will extend the utility of these stunning feats throughout most of your pre-epic career, and against the less fort-uitous later on (i.e., wizzards, typically). But you're not going to need them.
THE DEATH DEALER - MONK (21), FIGHTER (6), ROGUE (13) Human, Lawful Evil
The following is the epic path of the Death Dealer during the first 40 levels of his/her career, from fighting monk to pirate commander, and mercenary:
EQUIPMENT Monk Gloves, Kama Monk Robes Preferred, but can wear any armor, depending on the particular environment/circumstances.
USEFUL STATS/COMPARISONS:
BAB/AB (equipped):
• PRE-EPIC/NON-UBER GEAR (Official Campaign Type Stuff): i.e. -- Agility Belt, +2-5; Boots of the Sun Soul, +5 (+3 Dex); Bracers (+3-5), Rings, etc.
Unarmed Attack:
o At DEX 34 (i.e., +2 boost): BAB 26, +41/+38/+35/+32/+29/+26 o At DEX 40 (i.e., +8 boost): BAB 26, AB +44/+41/+38/+35/+32/+29 o At DEX 42 (i.e., +10 boost): BAB 26, AB +45/+42/+39/+36/+33/+30 o At DEX 44 [(i.e., +12 (cap)]: BAB 26, AB +46/+43/+40/+37/+34/+31
+12 Dexterity (Belt of Agility alone, or +8-10 belt with a Dex-Ring); Monk Gloves, +7 (plus damage enhancement); Monk Robes, +8; Amulet of Wisdom, +7; Ring of CON, +4; Boots of the Sun Soul (or Boots of Speed).
• BAB 26, AB +53/50/47/44/41/38 (Monk Gloves, +7) • Damage (with, i.e., 1d4 Fire Enhancement): 1-20, +5, + 1d4 Fire Damage; • Avg. Damage/Attack: 25+ x’s 5-8 attacks/round (depending on the enhancement) • Con-Boost: a +4 Ring (or any item) gets you +80 HPs, and also a +2 Fort boost • Ring/Cloak of Fort, +10, Ring/Cloak of Armor, +10, etc. • AC: North of 60 (note: this character can, without armor, achieve AC 87)
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In building any character, it is important to bear in mind those stats which would be achieved if, instead of multi-classing, a pure-build was designed. This, not only for comparison, but to determine if any improvement or utilities were actually achieved by multi-class, else one might argue – and I would agree, unless it’s a fun build or to have a particular speciality -- that there is no point in multi-classing.
In the case of a pure-monk, dex-based build, for a measure of comparison, when buffed to DEX 40, we would start with the special Monk BAB Chart to determine pure-monk AB, as follows: BAB 25, plus (15 + *DEX Modifier), which would equate to a BAB 25, AB +41 (where DEX is 40). In the case of the Death Dealer, we have achieved this same result (i.e., BAB 26, AB +40), without buffs, i.e. at a naked DEX 32; when Death Dealer is adjusted (buffed) to DEX 40 (being +8, which equates to pre-epic, non-uber stuff), as one can see from the above chart, this would be an improvement over a pure-monk, and also an improvement over a pure-sneaker, which sneakers come in typically much lower, at around AB +35-37.
In terms of HPs, in multi-classing with Rogue, the Death Dealer experiences a loss of overall HPs in some leveling, at the epic levels, due to XP penalties (adding up to a loss of 15 or so); however, Death Dealer is a stealth build. When looked at in this light, his/her overall HPs, at over 400, are high, especially as compared to a pure-sneaker. True, you can roll low HPs on leveling, but this is true for all characters; pure melee (FTR) builds cure low rolls and/or gain more HPs with a Con-boost item. A +4 Con boosting item will not only raise your HPs +80, but also boost fort +2. In exchange for the loss of a few measley HPs, you gain all those great extra sneaker’s skill points (highest of all classes), rogue feats, and the 7d6 sneak damage certainly not enjoyed by a pure monk, and not even by an assassin (which I did consider). Meanwhile, the Death Dealer, as an epic monk, gets the full benefit of all those great monk feats. These include monk speed (170%), nice immunities, high AC, and high 1-20 +*(DEX Mod.) damage/round, x’s 5-8 attacks per round, and even more hasted/in flurry of blows mode (the highest number in the game). These extra attacks/round work with sneaks (i.e., 7d6 x’s 5-8 attacks/round, again, more if hasted/in flurry of blows mode). At the same time, these Monk feats, extra attacks and high melee damage capabilities are not enjoyed by pure sneakers (or dex-based builds generally), thus making a few measley HPs a nice trade, indeed.
If one were to argue that one may get immunity to sneak attacks or something along this line, thus making the Death Dealer less useful, I would disagree: less fun, perhaps, but lots of utility. First, this is a stealth build, and such comments would be true not only of the Death Dealer, but essentially all sneak-builds equally; I, too, have heard rumors that, at any number of custom-order/equipment-making mods these days, they are serving just about anyone, and tossing in the fries for free. That there is stuff out there which can make characters literally immune to anything and everything is not a unique problem for this build. True, in the golden era of PnP D&D, it used to be that DMs would roll a fatigue check, insisting that parties/characters rest up after a period of adventuring (as determined by the dice), and they had to take off their armor to rest. Oh, those were the golden days, from the perspective of the sneakers! (All good things must come to an end, I guess . . lol).
Nevertheless, if the target is immune to sneak attack, such as a dragon or otherwise equipped, this character is not without his/her resources, being by no means a push over. He can hold his own: he knocks 'em down, and with all those attacks of his, not even a dragon stands for too long. It really is quite a beautiful thing to see, and a ton of fun! He's even more fun when hasted (monk speed = haste equivalent, now toss in haste, it stacks, and it's incredible to see). While designed for PvM/single-player mods, and fully tested for same, he is adaptable for PvP.
Finally, this build is authentic; it is based upon a real, historical character, being Eustace the Monk. He is a fascinating character, whom I researched quite thoroughly for other purposes. In the process, I could not help but build him here, for everyone’s enjoyment. I encourage everyone who’s interested to read up on this high seas outlaw; he literally got away with murder and mayhem, the authorities turning away, so long as he did the King’s bidding.
I would like to thank the members of this guild for helping bring Eustace the “Black Monk” to life here on the character boards, for suggesting rogue over assasin (it really does do the trick - Nice!), and also for steering me to epic dodge; for me, it was a toss up between that feat and the crippling strike, which is also good; but must admit, epic dodge is better, at least in my humble opinion. So, thanks for all of that great interest, and advice. I am very pleased with his performance, he did incredibly well, and he's also fun! This is the final version, but comments are of course always welcome.
You can find the first version of the build here
~ Tyr
Added link, edited title to include new account name - Kail Pendragon
Edited By Kail Pendragon on 09/15/08 00:10
Its a nice idea, but seriously, you need to build on the basis that all items are non-magical and mundane here.
Plus this, that and the other are all very well, but do not reflect the values of the build outcome.
Anyway, this could really do with some help, briefly summarised below:
-Epic Dodge at 40th??? Why so late, when you can take it earlier? -XP Penalty at 14th-15th, 21st and 30th-40th levels (20%) -What purpose does finishing on WIS 15 serve? 14 would be better, with the 2 points left over into STR, removing the negative damage modifier -1 -Dodge & Mobility - what for? -Disarm/ Imp Disarm - You have no weapon so you are at a disadvantage straight away.
Skills: -Discipline, Hide & Move Silently - all maxed - makes perfect sense -Tumble taken to 40 for +8 AC - again sensible -You don't need both Spot and Listen generally, particularly when you only take one about halfway, it’s a waste -Parry will really serve you no purpose, especially as you are aiming to be carrying out more than 3 attacks per round - a waste IMHO -Search and Intimidate - with those quantities they are not worth bothering with -UMD I would max if you have the chance
-Consider going dwarf for the extra HP, other racial bonuses, particularly as you are going to get an xp penalty anyway, regardless what race you are. -Boost your STR a littlle you will need it
Give it some more thought and if you are going to insist on enhanced items, then don't bother mentioning anything higher than +5.
15 Wis is a waste, and 8 Str is a problem. The lack of Epic Prowess is distressing, but acceptable, given you have 41 unbuffed AB and epic dodge and 7d6 sneak sneak attack. Pretty good, overall, but try to use a less cumbersome build format. _________________ CATS!
Hmm. Some random thoughts...
If you take Fighter at level 2, you can take Weapon Finesse then. Surely that is of more benefit than Monk speed (at Monk 3).
Why Mobility? Why Improved Crit: Unarmed? What about Luck of Heroes or Blind Fight?
Why Strength 8 (a penalty) for a Dex-based, unarmed combatant? At least he gets WS/EWS: Unarmed.
And why do you suggest a Kama as gear to wear? He should be unarmed.
And as I mentioned before, don't post your build listing all the PW-specific uber gear required to make your character playable. Characters should be posted with naked/non-magical gear statistics. Ie, why list his AB with a Dex of 34-44 when the build only has a max Dex of 32? That only confuses the issue and makes the build hard to evaluate.
Also, your post is very informative, but too wordy. It's hard to pick out the valuable information in your lengthy paragraphs. Like your essay on pure monks...and something about DMs rolling fatigue checks? What has that got to do with anything? Trim up the posts and make them more concise friend.
Using non-official titles confuses the issue. eg "Mercenary/Assassin" and "Assassin Skills" when he has no Assassin levels.
You have a lot of good information and a lot of RP information, but I think it's too much for one post. Maybe post three posts: 1 - Build, 2 - Play tips, 3 - Background/RP elements/Character story. Check out this build to see a good way to deliver a ton of information: Click Here
PS - I think you should have named the build 'The Black Monk' instead of Death Dealer *shrug*
Wow; as always, the comments and interest here are quite interesting! Ah, where to start (monks are so misunderstood
Avarielo: 15 WIS is important for two things: one, monk AC and, two, those stunning fists/quivering palm abilities; true, coming into epic, it's a waste, and certainly not going to stun a dragon (which I make clear). I might consider dropping it a point or two for a bit of a strength boost, since at str 8 he can't carry much, which isn't a problem per se, but a real drag from a player's perspective. That is, until he has those greater magic bags (which are just so plentiful at the lower levels -- yeah, right). True, this is problem for all low str characters, but he's supposed to be a pirate afterall - it really was a toss up, but good point.
As to epic prowess, not only does he not need it (yes, he's there unbuffed!), that feat does absolutely nothing for a monk's unarmed attack, zero, nada. If it shows up on your calculator, (and it should), it's because, like any other class, that feat applies to all other weapons per se, but not the monk's fist. A monk's unarmed attack is itself a magical weapon, counts as such, and not affected by anything other than his level and, in this build, dex.
And that's why I also didn't take epic dodge sooner; yes, I know it's available, but would not serve any point in taking it earlier, since this would cost a dex boost, which couldn't be brought back in at level 40, due to the rogue's feats, of which another dex is not a possibility. Now, if epic prowess worked for the monk, that would have been different (I wish it did, but it doesn't): I would have taken epic dodge sooner, then crippling strike, but this was not something I considered due to the fact that epic prowess doesn't work for monk's unarmed attack, and maybe helps to explain why I was toiling so much over which feat to take (i.e., epic dodge or crippling strike; because epic prowess doesn't work for the monk, can't have both, and so I went with the extra dex and epic dodge). Great question and observation; thanks.
As to Kamas, sure, epic prowess would work there, but his fist is far more powerful; again, takes time to get there, but monks are adept at using the kama, it being the only weapon that works with all of those great flurry of blows and other feats. Thus, it does have utility, but it's his unarmed attack that is his main weapon (and what a weapon it is).
As to HPs, his max is 426 - c'mon now, let's not scare the people. The XP penalty we're talking about is a few rogue levels (1d6 x's 20% = 1.2), with one monk (1d8 x 20% =1.6) and gotta check but may be *ONE* ftr level in there (1d10 at 20% =2) -- otherwise, the levels of which you speak are ALL rogue. Thus, we're talking 1.2 + 1.2 + ... sheesh. About 15 or so HPs, like I said. Already well accounted for (he's got toughness)and, before he comes into epic, he's already got more HPs than would a pure-class rougue, who can only dream of ever attaining 300 HP much less 400-plus. (They're 1d6, remember?) With all those other great feats coming in, more than acceptable (and all accounted for).
As for non-uber magic, it's all there: the top stats are naked, and say so; the first round of stats, we're talking +2 non-uber stuff - from chapter one, original campaign; remember grimshaw? anyway, the pure-class monk's there for a comparison. I know, everyone thinks their class is better pure, just like all ball fans seem to think that they're better fans than some other place; that having been said, this really is an issue for fans of the monk class.
A lot of players bring in a monk level here and there for pure cheese; that's not this build. My point in putting in all those stats was for informational and comparison purposes. You'll note, using the pure-class (they buff to 40 for illustration, this is their table, and thus I'm merely adopting it) - anyway, this character's there without the buffs, naked, just his good old naked self, as is clear from the table. Now, to make it even, again, it's their table, bring him to 40 and . . . clearly, a major improvement when naked, and even more so when buffed (the comparison needs to be fair, else there's no point). Anyway, the information is there, in the wrap-up, not out front, and also illustrates rather nicely how, concentrating merely on one stat (ie, dex), you get everything pretty much covered, which is nice. Players are of course free to do with it what they want. The naked stats are out front, and not hiding (and why would they? they're good).
As to dwarf -- how very interesting; a dwarven pirte? hmm, a dwarven bard perhaps, but a pirate? Seriously, there were no dwarves in Old England, nor among the Normans either. Pixies and griffons, perhaps, maybe elves, but not dwarves. Dwarves (elfenkin) are German; yeah, they're cool, have some in me garden in fact, but they're not an English thing at the time, and hence would detract from the authenticity of this build. But neat idea -- it really is, very interesting. But Eustace was human, and really, the HP issue is not an issue (see, above).
But, I will give the str issue a bit more consideration; I'm not sure about that either; WIS is better in the beginning, but won't mean much if can't carry out the spoils of victory so to speak. Really, it is a toss up.
Nice comments, great questions and observations, as always, and glad I could share my learning with you about the monk. This has been wonderful, truly, in bringing this guy out (note: also female pirates, there were - hmmm, if any of them was german, well, then . . . now that would be a neat character, yes? (love it; but again, Eustace was human).
Thanks, guys. Keep those great comments coming, as always. Happy Plundering to all this merry weekend. Enjoy!
~ Tyr
ps. and thanks for the link. I'll check it!
it would probably require a lot of changes in the levelling process, but why not choosing a monk20/fighter4/rogue16? Drop the disarm feats which are totally useless with gloves anyways, and you can get crippling strike & epic dodge,and keep WS & EWS with your 4 lvls of fighter... Since you gonna get xp penalty anyway, you can eventually choose elf, and get epic dodge earlier by starting with a higher dex.
Edited By Anglashell on 05/27/06 08:11
An Elf would get 40% XP penalty, though. _________________
Quote: Posted 04/26/06 12:05:52 (GMT) -- Ithacan
[...]Harper Scout, the only class so powerful it's capped at five. [...]
Lol; that's a lot...Hafling then ^^
Just to be clear a WIS of 15 has exactly the same modifier as a WIS of 14, which affects all of the following in the same way:
Will Save Stunning Fist DC Quivering Palm DC Monk AC
Keep it at 14 at the start and you have 2 points spare to play with.
Quote: Posted 05/27/06 07:57:38 (GMT) -- Robert Tyr
Avarielo: 15 WIS is important for two things: one, monk AC and, two, those stunning fists/quivering palm abilities; true, coming into epic, it's a waste, and certainly not going to stun a dragon (which I make clear). I might consider dropping it a point or two for a bit of a strength boost, since at str 8 he can't carry much, which isn't a problem per se, but a real drag from a player's perspective.
A. 15 Wis doesn't boost your AC. 15 Wis has a +2 modifier, as does 14 Wis. So, by taking 15 Wis, you are wasting two ability points that should go into strength. And strength isn't a problem because of carrying limits, it's a problem because you won't actually be able to deal damage without it.
Quote: Posted 05/27/06 07:57:38 (GMT) -- Robert Tyr
As to epic prowess, not only does he not need it (yes, he's there unbuffed!), that feat does absolutely nothing for a monk's unarmed attack, zero, nada. If it shows up on your calculator, (and it should), it's because, like any other class, that feat applies to all other weapons per se, but not the monk's fist. A monk's unarmed attack is itself a magical weapon, counts as such, and not affected by anything other than his level and, in this build, dex.
WRONG. So wrong it hurts.
a. 41 unbuffed AB is decent, but not exceptional. Epic Prowess will serve you better.
b. A monk does not gain special attack bonuses for fighting unarmed as you seem to think, he just gets two extra attacks per round. If you think Ki Strike gives you an attack bonus - it doesn't. It helps you pierce damage reduction. That's all. Epic Prowess (and many other things) does stack, and if, conceptually, only dexterity helped your AB, that would leave a monk such as yours with a maximum 47 AB, which is ridiculously low.
Quote: Posted 05/27/06 07:57:38 (GMT) -- Robert Tyr
And that's why I also didn't take epic dodge sooner; yes, I know it's available, but would not serve any point in taking it earlier, since this would cost a dex boost, which couldn't be brought back in at level 40, due to the rogue's feats, of which another dex is not a possibility. Now, if epic prowess worked for the monk, that would have been different (I wish it did, but it doesn't): I would have taken epic dodge sooner, then crippling strike, but this was not something I considered due to the fact that epic prowess doesn't work for monk's unarmed attack, and maybe helps to explain why I was toiling so much over which feat to take (i.e., epic dodge or crippling strike; because epic prowess doesn't work for the monk, can't have both, and so I went with the extra dex and epic dodge). Great question and observation; thanks.
No, epic prowess DOES work for monks, once again. Who told you it didn't? IT DOES. Moreover, having Epic Dodge so late makes the build difficult to play in a pre-40th level environment.
Quote: Posted 05/27/06 07:57:38 (GMT) -- Robert Tyr
As for non-uber magic, it's all there: the top stats are naked, and say so; the first round of stats, we're talking +2 non-uber stuff - from chapter one, original campaign; remember grimshaw? anyway, the pure-class monk's there for a comparison. I know, everyone thinks their class is better pure, just like all ball fans seem to think that they're better fans than some other place; that having been said, this really is an issue for fans of the monk class.
Very few people use pure classes, so try to avoid taking up space with such comparisons in the future. It makes the build difficult to read.
Quote: Posted 05/27/06 07:57:38 (GMT) -- Robert Tyr
A lot of players bring in a monk level here and there for pure cheese; that's not this build. My point in putting in all those stats was for informational and comparison purposes. You'll note, using the pure-class (they buff to 40 for illustration, this is their table, and thus I'm merely adopting it) - anyway, this character's there without the buffs, naked, just his good old naked self, as is clear from the table. Now, to make it even, again, it's their table, bring him to 40 and . . . clearly, a major improvement when naked, and even more so when buffed (the comparison needs to be fair, else there's no point). Anyway, the information is there, in the wrap-up, not out front, and also illustrates rather nicely how, concentrating merely on one stat (ie, dex), you get everything pretty much covered, which is nice. Players are of course free to do with it what they want. The naked stats are out front, and not hiding (and why would they? they're good).
40 AB is rather low. I would go out of my way to compile a list of builds that have 42 or higher, but it would take far too long.
Quote: Posted 05/27/06 07:57:38 (GMT) -- Robert Tyr
As to dwarf -- how very interesting; a dwarven pirte? hmm, a dwarven bard perhaps, but a pirate? Seriously, there were no dwarves in Old England, nor among the Normans either. Pixies and griffons, perhaps, maybe elves, but not dwarves. Dwarves (elfenkin) are German; yeah, they're cool, have some in me garden in fact, but they're not an English thing at the time, and hence would detract from the authenticity of this build. But neat idea -- it really is, very interesting. But Eustace was human, and really, the HP issue is not an issue (see, above).
400+ HP is not exceptional. It's acceptable, but not exceptional. In any case, if this is an RP build, you should say so, rather than fronting it as a PVP monster.
The build is good, but I suggest you look over some of the other monk builds in the forum to get a better idea of how they tend to run. _________________ CATS!
Okay, the build finally qualifies for Epic Dodge. However, if in one breath you talk about playing him from Ch1 in the OC and onward and upward into his Epic career, why would you insist on taking Epic Dodge at Level 40? The only people who take Epic Dodge at Level 40 are those who play in a 40th level PvP arena.
You see, there are certain feats which are signature feats, feats which help define the build. For most warriors, it used to be Devastating Crit, Druids have Dragon Shape, Bards have Lasting Inspiration, Ranger's Bane, Pally's Great Smiting, and Dexing Rogues and Monks have Epic Dodge.
A Rogue/Monk who starts with a 17 Dex can have ED by 25th Level. Starting with a 16Dex and you can have it by 28th. Either way, the epic portion of the character's career should be focused and hellbent on attaining that signature feat as soon as possible. You're build easily qualifies for it much earlier, and with some creative problem solving, you should be able to get it before Level 29. _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
You have a lot of good information and a lot of RP information, but I think it's too much for one post. Maybe post three posts: 1 - Build, 2 - Play tips, 3 - Background/RP elements/Character story. Check out this build to see a good way to deliver a ton of information: Click Here
...
Personally, I don't find that kind of format (in the link) the best either. The format in my sig or the output from Kamyrin's CBC (maybe enhanced by bolding, italics and some additional info like DCs or special sources of damage) are way better, IMO.
Cheers, Kail
Edited By Kail Pendragon on 05/27/06 13:51
Too much text. I hate to say it but I haven't even read this build, it's too hard to find what I think is important with that big sales pitch stuck on it.
Honestly I think you try to oversell your builds, to their detriment. You don't need to make claims about how it's exceptional or tell us how it's great, just list the level scheme and the starting and ending stats and, those of us who frequent this forum can judge for ouselves. Some explanation and tactical tips are useful, but it's a good idea to be brief and to the point with them.
If you need to type a novella to explain your build, seperate the posts. Post the stats and brief, relevant infomation in the first post, then post the book in the second so that people can see your build in a hurry and skip your sales talk. It'd be better still if you just cut the sales pitch altogether, since as I said, I think it actually hurts your cause here. _________________ Experience is the mother of good judgement; bad judgement is the father of experience.
Well put Xylo, also it must be kept in mind that being this the Epic Character Builders guild, the guys here have got quite an eye for spotting strengths and weaknesses in a build without being told. A brief summary of advantages/disadvantages of the build and of the reasons why some choices have been made it's ok and welcome, too much of it is... simply too much.
Cheers, Kail _________________ To hear the sound of Freedom, many gave their lives They fought for you and me Those memories will always live inside us, and now it's our time to be free
Edited By Kail Pendragon on 05/27/06 18:29
That is just boring to read, it isn't even a story, reading all replies though, and I agree with Xylo.
Read what Samphus wrote, he made a lot of good points, Disarm is a bad idea unarmed, WIS should be 14 not 15, Dodge and Mobility are useless, you don't even need Dodge for Epic Dodge. About Epic Dodge, I can't give you a better explanation than what Grizz said.
In my experience, everyone here is a great builder / player / whatever else they are, and explanations are generally useless.
Hmmm, hardly you've read my post about the other one, but heck I'll say it again (this is all powerbuild, not considering RP): your Stunning Fist DC is crap and there isn't much you can do about it with this guideline, forget about it and about Extra Stunning Fists feat and get yourself a kama, change Monk levels for Fighter to get feats if you need them (probably not needed this time), change Disarm, Improved Disarm and Mobility for Ambidexterity, Two Weapon Fighting and Improved Two Weapon Fighting, change all focus feats to kama and get Epic Prowess, change Dodge for Blind-Fight, and change some Monk epic levels to Rogue to get another bonus Rogue feat for Crippling and more sneak attack power.
With those changes (which are pretty radical) you would make 8 APR, it is impossible for you to make 8 APR with your current build because it's 5 +1 flurry +1 dual kamas = 7. Haste will not be accounted because you can't cast it by yourself, besides, your current build would get a kama AB of +37 and a dual wielding of +33 mainhand and +29 offhand, which is very low, because you have no Two Weapon Fighting feats and all focuses are unarmed with no Epic Prowess.
Edited By Thaxll'ssyllia on 05/27/06 19:36
Interesting remarks, as always. Again, where to start:
Str - not so; he gets his 1-20 +5 damage, that's the way of the monk - he's dex based, goes straight to his AB and his AC (wis also goes to AC, and to his monk palm abilities); the damage comes from his levels; at monk 20, the damage is auto, at 1-20 + mod; in this case, as above said, 1-20 +5; 25/round, x's 5-8 attacks per round (more in flurry of blows mode and/or hasted, it's 8-10) - that's a lot of damage, and quite acceptable, in my humble opinion.
AC naked 35: that's also, in my opinion, quite acceptable.
One piece of equipment, the question has been raised, no-uber, Official Campaign stuff, which you get at Ch.1 or just coming into Ch. 2: Boots of the Sun Soul, +5 - AC 40, one piece of equip't; now, add the +3 dex boost, which is inherent in the boots - AB also gets a boost, with the dex also going to his AC. Add the Moon Robes, once again, Official Campaign non-uber stuff, Ch.1 or 2, as above: now, AC shoots up, yet again, mid-40s, and his speed does, too; that's only 2, two pieces of non-uber, pre-epic early campaign stuff. One stat to concentrate on, only one, with other possibilities, too.
HPs. To be able to reach over 400 is good; a rogue, remember, has d6 x 40 levels = 240 max; with toughness, fine, but no where near 400, even if take a bunch of epic toughness feats, still, not over 400, and wouldn't have any other feats. The loss of 15 or so hps (that's what we're talking people) in exchange for all that sneak damage (7d6 x's 5-8 attacks/round, more once again if hasted and/or flurry of blows - 10 attacks per round; that's up to 420 damage right off the bat - that, too, is acceptable. For a monk, also: that's d8 x40, or 320 total max. HPs possible.
Extra Rogue idea: don't see it; yes, would get a few more skill points, but no extra feats or other utilities. Rogue brings in the sneak damage, and also the defensive roll thus epic dodge feat. Stealth skills are equally raised by a monk, as they are rougues; the rogue has served its purpose; stealth skills are fully maximized.
UMD - this build's not a sorcerer/spell slinger, has the stealth for protection, and "surprise attacks". UMD level should be sufficient for access to some of the more intersting scrolls, and thus served its purpose, and also keeps with the theory of the build; Eustace was believed to be a sorcerer, or at least backed by one, using the cover of darkness, and having good melee skills; he used fog cover. Yet, UMD is a nice thing, and get access to it with the Rogue. Again, utility.
Epic Prowess: no one "told" me, it's been "experienced" - I've a couple of characters starring monks, and none of them get a boost to their unarmed strike (AB) by the epic prowess feat. Other players who like monk have experienced the same thing. Just doesn't work for the monk. When the monk class first came out, their unarmed strike was initially no different than a ftr/melee class, provoking an attack of opportunity. This bug was later fixed, along with the disarm feat (so again, monk unarmed strike counts as a weapon, a magic weapon +3 in fact (higher if take ki strike, but we don't in this build). Anyway, that's why; if this was yet another bug, re: the epic prowess feat, then that is great, and I'm very happy to hear that. (however, my game is version 1.67, up-to-date, and just don't see it - it is possible that nevertheless the feat is corrupt, but again, I don't see it and unless I do, can't recommend it).
But, if you are correct re: epic prowess, then yes, by all means, take this feat, get the AB boost this way instead, thus being able to take epic dodge sooner (for all the reasons outlined above, with which I do agree), and also thus able to fit in that crippling strike feat also. This would be a very nice improvement; totally agreed on that point - but, once again, in levelling this character and playing it through, as with other monks in the past, just don't see it.
As to UBER, all power, all godlly claims, I made no such thing; my intention was to build a strong character, having lots of utility, with the power of sneak and strong first stike damage, but no push over when it comes to melee. In other words, Eustace the Monk, and that has been fully achieved.
(As to stealth: we all know that uber-power, devcrit melee characters move about, slowly, in detect mode - yeah right; most players don't maximize their detect (spot/listen) skills, and even if they do, can't be in detect mode when in combat - take this guy out with a couple of tanks, just one hit . . . acceptable results.
Basically this build will give you an incredible amount of immunities, saves and spell resistance. It’s very tough for any caster to hit you with anything and with some minimal equipment, the same goes for any fighter. Even if they do, epic dodge allows this build to shake it off. As long as you make sure to have some death immunity and negative level protection in your equipment, there are few spells or effects that can touch you. Enjoy!
Now, as to the story: really, it took a lot of work on my part, and was added for RP/player's benefits. I could have done without all of the extra work; I am sorry if you don't like it. Really, it was a lot of extra work on my part: no uber all-powerful, all-knowing, or omnipotence - just a story; sorry if you don't like it.
Happy plundering to all on this merry long weekend. Tyr out
Quote: Posted 05/27/06 07:57:38 (GMT) -- Robert Tyr
...
Avarielo: 15 WIS is important for two things: one, monk AC and, two, those stunning fists/quivering palm abilities...
WIS 15 gives you nothing more than WIS 14, so it's two starting ability points waste.
Quote: As to epic prowess, not only does he not need it (yes, he's there unbuffed!), that feat does absolutely nothing for a monk's unarmed attack, zero, nada.
It ain't so, EP applies to monks and even to unarmed shifted forms for the matter.
Quote: As to HPs, his max is 426 - c'mon now, let's not scare the people. The XP penalty we're talking about is a few rogue levels (1d6 x's 20% = 1.2), with one monk (1d8 x 20% =1.6) and gotta check but may be *ONE* ftr level in there (1d10 at 20% =2) -- otherwise, the levels of which you speak are ALL rogue. Thus, we're talking 1.2 + 1.2 + ... sheesh. About 15 or so HPs, like I said.
Err, what are you talking about?
Quote: Str - not so; he gets his 1-20 +5 damage, that's the way of the monk - he's dex based, goes straight to his AB and his AC (wis also goes to AC, and to his monk palm abilities); the damage comes from his levels; at monk 20, the damage is auto, at 1-20 + mod; in this case, as above said, 1-20 +5
Where does that +5 come from?
Quote: UMD - this build's not a sorcerer/spell slinger, has the stealth for protection, and "surprise attacks". UMD level should be sufficient for access to some of the more intersting scrolls
The fact this build is no spell slinger is the reason why you should take more ranks in UMD. BTW, 22 modified ranks is no better than 20 modified ranks since UMD works in multiples of five.
Also, points in Parry are wasted points, they could be better spent anywhere else.
Also, as others have wisely pointed out, ED is simply fundamental; taking it so late hampers the build a lot.
IMO the build can still go through some revision to make it better.
Cheers, Kail _________________ To hear the sound of Freedom, many gave their lives They fought for you and me Those memories will always live inside us, and now it's our time to be free
WOW!
In all my days here I have never seen anything like this! First, Tyr, you must understand that nearly all the players that posted here (and ones that didnt) can tell you exactly how "good" your build is just from the level distribution. Your "comments" are really wasted on us. What it seems like is you are trying to "sell" your build.. sorta like trying to sell snow to Canadians .
All of the suggestions were made to make the build better, even the ones on HOW you posted it. Quite frankly, you use way to much text! ANd alot of your logic... isn't. There is no way you can sweet talk 15 wis vs 14 wis. There is no way you can say that a dexer is better off NOT having ED until 40, when he can very easily have it alot earlier, UNLESS, and take note here, you simply say "I took ED at 40 cuz I only took 13 rogue levels and I did a nice UMD skill dump at 40!" Then we all understand. We are not stupid. Saying "the build doesnt require it earlier" is a lie! Of course it requires it earlier. ED is the reason that we make dexers , ok that and AC! LOL
Quote: Posted 05/27/06 07:57:38 (GMT) -- Robert Tyr
Str - not so; he gets his 1-20 +5 damage, that's the way of the monk - he's dex based, goes straight to his AB and his AC (wis also goes to AC, and to his monk palm abilities); the damage comes from his levels; at monk 20, the damage is auto, at 1-20 + mod; in this case, as above said, 1-20 +5
Where does that +5 come from?
Weapon Specialization + Epic Weapon Specialization - 2. _________________ CATS!
And Tyr, you don't lose hitpoints by having xp-penalty. With 20% xp-penalty you lose xp. That is for each 100 xp everyone else gains from said encounter you would gain only 80. So your leveling slows down to 4/5th compared to others. This occures from the time you take the 3rd class, which would be lvl 14.
And Epic dodge is such a life-saver you can't imagine. It even dodges the first attack that catches you flat-footed each encounter.
It seems to me you have misunderstood a few mechanics, like the Epic prowess. It's actually the only AB-gain feat that helps no matter your form of attack. Try the build with and without it, and let everything else be the same and you'll see. Even better, turn on combat-debugging. _________________ Dragonlance ROH is back, better than before! and I spend a little time here WoG
Quote: Posted 05/27/06 07:57:38 (GMT) -- Robert Tyr
Str - not so; he gets his 1-20 +5 damage, that's the way of the monk - he's dex based, goes straight to his AB and his AC (wis also goes to AC, and to his monk palm abilities); the damage comes from his levels; at monk 20, the damage is auto, at 1-20 + mod; in this case, as above said, 1-20 +5
Doh, me dumb! Of course, WS/EWS; for some mysterious reason I was factoring in only STR modifier... it must have been the Epic Dissertation feat effect and me failin me will save
BTW, it's actually WS +EWS -1
Cheers, Kail _________________ Stand and fight, live by your heart Always one more try, I'm not afraid to die Stand and fight, say what you feel Born with a Heart of Steel!
Lads and Lassies, don't get me wrong: I *enjoy* posting here, and even enjoy the ribbing; it's fun, it is, and yes, we're all in this together, out to make good things better. So, please, indeed, know that I appreciate how everyone here has taken the time out of their busy schedule, as I have mine, to come here and build a better build, to share knowledge and understanding, and in the end, make the whole NWN experience better for not only ourselves, but the people out there: i.e., the players.
Let it not be said that this guild doesn't care about the people
Once again, as to ED, I wanted to take it earlier, yes, indeed, and I also wanted to put in crippling strike; on that, we're all agreed. No argument from me, I totally, totally agree. Problem was, on my game version, EP does not (let me say that again, this time in French, for the benefit of our Canadians - le EP, il ne peut pas) work for any of my monks, on any of my builds, whether leveled via a leveller, or during a mod, be it player made or the official bioware campaign. And that's the reason why I didn't take it; not because I didn't want to, or didn't think it was important, or anything of the sort - only because the EP wasn't stacking (on my game version, updated, 1.67 and CEP updated, too), which in turn meant that AB would be 39, AC down one point too, which *I* couldn't live with.
Yes, 39 is great for a sneaker, but not a warrior. OK, having access to cat's grace and GTR.Mag.Wea. is nice, boosting the AC and also the AB quite nicely, indeed; but I wanted to start at least at 40, average warrior range, and for reasons which I trust need no explanation. And that's why I did it; ie., cause EP simply did not work. Period.
But, if you're telling me (and I take it that you are), that the bug has been fixed, and that EP does in fact stack, apply, and work for monk unarmed attack, then, indeed, I'll remake this and you'll have no argument thus from me. I appreciate the information; very helpful, indeed.
As to WIS, yes, could start at 14, but my thinking was s follows: playability, playability, playability. In most player-made mods, and including the official campaign itself, most wis-boost items, ie., the amulet, come in denominations of uneven numbers (e.g., +1, +3, +5, etc.), and especially at the lower levels, where this guy could use it. Yes, his stunning fist/palm effects become pretty much a parlor trick (not impossible to stun the less fort-ituous, i.e., a wizard, but by epic levels and certainly pvp, just not gonna stun some uber barbarian, or a dragon, or ....). Anyway, that's why I kinda like keeping the wis where it is; yes, putting the 2 points into str would serve some useful purposes, but at the low levels, where his unarmed strike is still being tuned, it's the palm/stun abilities that he'll find so much more helpful. That's not to say I'm not flexible; everyone here knows that I am, or at least should. Good comments, questions, and helpful advice are ALWAYS welcome; the back-and-forth on this one, well . . . (indeed, let's get the bad guy; he is a villain after all, and how appropriate; but hate to burst your bubble folks, whoever told you that the good guys always win, lied! -- you know, by making this villain better, the people out there are gonna be a little bit angry . . . oh, and that's good!!!).
Alright, back to the subject at hand: if, for real, you are, guaranteed, 100% certain, totally certain, that my game has a bug and/or the EP issue was a bug that has since been fixed, like many of the other, initial monk problems, then, yes, indeed, I'll remake this guy; no problem. (and I will thank you for such wonderful info, which is sweet, indeed, to me ears; as I said, and I am not trying to be difficult, really I'm not; it's just, it doesn't work on my game. I have tried, this is experience talking, for real; for me, on my game, no matter where I level, it just doesn't work. Period.
As to the XP issue, I thought so initially, but someone led me to believe that its a HP issue; not sure where I got *that* from, and that's what all those 1.2 + 1.2 are, a calculation as to lost HPs. XP lost is alright, 20% is not huge, as it's not every level from 14, it's only about 10-12 of them (again, I must check to be sure, and will mark it clearly on the final, final version (egads . . . . thank goodness for Kail, and her kindness to add links . . .)
Thanks, really, for clearing that up; appreciated.
As to EP, once again, if it does indeed stack with the monk's unarmed attack (once again, I don't see it; no matter where I level, a problem from the day I first bought the game, and continues to exist today so, yeah, I have tried; many different times, in many different places/mods/environments, including with this character, and it just doesn't change his AB for unarmed strike; has absolutely no effect in that regard at all.) If I've a bug, fine: if it's a bug in the original program which has since been fixed, wonderful to hear. I take it that it has, and with faith, will remake this guy accordingly.
(Must look into the script since, from what you're telling me, it's a file corruption on my comp/game's part---Well, Shiver me timbers, Arrrr!
Thanks and Merci, Tyr
ps. still like the dwarven pirate idea, and no story needed there . . . (no ice, either but boy, down here, so hot it is, sure could use some of that Cdn ice if you've any left over from da great white north to spare . . . lol
About EP: no one here, of course, knows better than you what's going on on your computer but be assured than on mine EP works wonderfully and I believe our fellow guild members and many others out there are experiencing the same. You could try reinstalling NWN to see if things change.
Cheers, Kail _________________ To hear the sound of Freedom, many gave their lives They fought for you and me Those memories will always live inside us, and now it's our time to be free
Thank you so much, and I'll certainly do that (re: reinstall). And with that, I'm happy to redo this guy: no arguments, or anything of the sort, the confirmation being good enough for me. Seriously, I'm trusting you guys/gals on this, will repost, and also reinstall.
As always, you're most helpful and kind advice is very much appreciated. Now, about that CDN ice ...
Besto,
Tyr
Heh, this thing about EP reminds me when I thought WF worked in dragon shape... you should trust what people around here say, especially when several can assure you so, your testing can be wrong, EP applies, for every AB count, let me tell you, the character sheet won't add EP if you're ranged (probably also unarmed), but combat debug or feedback does, also monk fist is not a magical weapon, it just counts as if it were for piercing capaility and period, monk gloves make your fist work as magical weapon, and as you appear to always need to get equipment in the way, that could be where you missed.
Quote: 1-20 +5; 25/round, x's 5-8 attacks per round (more in flurry of blows mode and/or hasted, it's 8-10) - that's a lot of damage, and quite acceptable, in my humble opinion.
Wrong, wrong and wrong. first, you make 5 APR, that's correct, 1 more with flurry and one more with haste makes 7, and that's your max APR, if you choose to dual kama you will get another one for 8, but penalties are -4 AB mainhand and -8 offhand, so it's utter crap in comparison. You cannot get to 9 or 10 APR with this build. you need a higher BAB to get 6 AB on the mainhand (18 If I'm correct, but I'm not tesing this, you can't egt 7 APR mainhand) and Improved Two Weapon Fighting to get the 10 APR (remember to be hasted), and you do not have any of those 2.
Quote: Posted 05/28/06 20:43:44 (GMT) -- Robert Tyr
(egads . . . . thank goodness for Kail, and her kindness to add links . . .)
Yep, she is a very kind little girl, and my little b***h. Actually, around here, she's everyones little b****.
Sorry Kail, but there was no way whatsoever I could manage to resist that. _________________ Dragonlance ROH is back, better than before! and I spend a little time here WoG
Quote: Posted 05/28/06 20:43:44 (GMT) -- Robert Tyr
(egads . . . . thank goodness for Kail, and her kindness to add links . . .)
Yep, she is a very kind little girl, and my little b***h. Actually, around here, she's everyones little b****.
_________________ CATS!
I think Tyr has superceded even the immortal Weatherwax for length of posts.
Excuse the n00bishness or lack of reference understanding, but ... Weatherwax? _________________ CATS!
Quote: Posted 05/28/06 20:43:44 (GMT) -- Robert Tyr
(egads . . . . thank goodness for Kail, and her kindness to add links . . .)
Yep, she is a very kind little girl, and my little b***h. Actually, around here, she's everyones little b****.
wait... Kail can modify our posts... that "her" could, ehm, dissappear magically... ok, I'll shut up
Quote: I think Tyr has superceded even the immortal Weatherwax for length of posts.
Well, I once made a larger post, but it was a full build with a relatively long story.
Back to the build again, your damage is much lower than what you think, 6-25 with 7 APR (hasted) isn't really 42-175, because you miss, your AB is only +40 (without flurry), nowhere near full hit, not even counting the decrease in AB withing the round, if you could hit 100% with this build (still impossible due to roll of 1 is a critical miss), I'd make a Paladin/CoT/Monk with all on CHA, dual wielding kamas with crazy divine damages for more than 200 per round!!!, obviously not, as a full CHA build has a low AB.
Edited By Thaxll'ssyllia on 05/29/06 03:25
Ahoy, mates! Interesting comments all! Glad we're all on the same page - stupid, stupid, computer glitch. Anyway, gonna rebuild, like I said, injecting meself with blind faith and trusting your words re: EP, and will rearrange for ED and CS accordingly.
Thax: dex-base build, he gets 6 rounds (count em, they're up there, somewhere, in the early part of the post ... As a sneaker, avg. BAB 25, AB 35-37; here, BAB 26, AB 40. Yes, of course he can roll a 1; UMD access allows for GMW and Cat's Grace; when I took him out, didn't use those spells and/or potions, but they're available to him in the build. He did fine without; used IKD (thus boost AB) and it worked great. Not "buffing", also the sneak. When he knocks down the HPs of his opponent, two scenarios come to mind: 1. opponent drinks potion, attack of opp/more sneak, and that could be enough; 2. opponent strikes, ED kicks in, plus he's high AC, immunities, etc. Now, it's his turn . . .
As to flurry mode, yeah ,I know - there's a -2 penalty applied. For 10 full rounds, it's kamas, true, and at a penalty also as no TWF; agreed on that. Fine on IKD, or put the UMD into motion; also, utility (cause you just never know what immunity a critter/character may have, and might want something with the one property to which it has vulnerability).
At 426 HPs and the ability to self-heal, plus his immunities etc., he can go the rounds. And also, with the stealth, ....
But yeah, Kama's aren't his top priority; just utility, ya know?
As to insisting on equipment, not exactly. How he's equipped is ultimately up for the player to decide; we give them a unique build and they take it from there. What I built in was utilty; just like buying a car, a condo, or a new comp, what you want is options. Same is true here insofar as a player tries on a new character. Wis is not uber high, for instance, for stunning etc. Won't need it in the teens up, by now, sneak and strike is working, and building up. Coming into epic, he continues to build. Actually, also nice thing about this build is that at almost every level, he gets a new feat; instant gratification, don't have to wait. Can see him develop, feel and see the diff as he levels; not like adding toughness for a "surprise" HP boost at epic; no, he builds up. However, how a player plays it is obviously is their call; astute players and others will say, oh, now he has sneak, cool . .. and forget about the parlor tricks. But if one "panicks" per se, well, has the option to get the wis boost; they won't need it, but the option's build in, just in case they feel the need to. Like a car, may never use the little thingy that does such and such, but nice to know it's there all the same. That's why I put it in; but reasons, good ones to boost str too (yeah, options - ain't they a beach to decide between
I could push to BAB 26, AB +41 on this one; but again, just one stat to concentrate on, ie Dex, just one; goes to AB and AC equally, which is nice, cause don't gotta worry about anything else really. Also, his stealth, sneak damage, and all those great immunities. Basically, making it very difficult for a caster or ftr to hurt him; with ED coming up as soon as is humanly possible to build it in, will shrug off damage anyway, nothwithstanding his very high AC such that no one's likely to hit him in the first place, nor even see him coming. That's the idea of the build - it's a sneak build. Of course, anything's possible in the realm.
Any ideas, however, before I rebuild him, by all means. Let's make this villain better if we can
Tyr
Quote: Posted 05/28/06 20:43:44 (GMT) -- Robert Tyr
(egads . . . . thank goodness for Kail, and her kindness to add links . . .)
Man, I missed that. Ok guys, party time's over, keep all quiet and let's forget about the accident... nothing to see here
*curses that innocently looking belt of gender transmutation that he/she received as a present*
Cheers, Kail _________________ Stand and fight, live by your heart Always one more try, I'm not afraid to die Stand and fight, say what you feel Born with a Heart of Steel!
Quote: Posted 05/29/06 02:35:05 (GMT) -- avarielo
Excuse the n00bishness or lack of reference understanding, but ... Weatherwax?
He's a legendary figure in the NWN General Discussion, known for his lengthy-and-boring posts. _________________
Quote: Posted 04/26/06 12:05:52 (GMT) -- Ithacan
[...]Harper Scout, the only class so powerful it's capped at five. [...]
*curses that innocently looking belt of gender transmutation that he/she received as a present*
Kail: YIKES! Would it help if, in that curse belt, were properties that made you immunune to sneak/crit/death magic/mind-spells/level-ability drain, gave you a +12 boost to your strength, the terrifying rage feat, and also the ESF: intimidate feat? wait a sec, you've already got all that!
(looks at feet, removes right foot and inserts left . . . Oooops sorry 'bout that.
Alright. Rebuilding with EP etc. and playing nice in the sand. No so-called boring, lengthy posts, alright already; just ED sooner, and other neat tweaks coming at a theatre in the realm near you soon
Edited By Robert Tyr on 05/29/06 17:46
Heh, but Kail, you need a Cleric, the belt of gender transmutation is already cursed and you can't take it off!
Oh, right, that was the Girdle of Macsulinity/Feminity, you got lucky.
Quote: ...and it worked great.
Ok, I'm starting to get bored on my own posts now, you've never tried PvP have you? any build can wor great, if you fight weaklings.
But that was well enough, now you're rebuilding it... I don't think you took my advice on going all dual wileding kama anyway.
Edited By Thaxll'ssyllia on 05/29/06 19:18
Thax: Actually . . .
Listen, I *am* looking into it (dual wield, ... original version of this character had it, but was trying to fit in too much on that one; so, with this one, I went with unarmed.
This guy's supposed to be for PvM/single-player mod, btw. However . . .
In that oh so lengthy, lamentation/rant of remembrance of mine, in which I go on about the "good old days" I note (succintly actually, but getting bored of reading my own rant meself . . . lol). For the sake of brevity, without rehashing any story, just a fact, unlike back then, in PvP today, most sneakers don't get their *shot* since, on many worlds, folks enter with sneak immunity (then again, doesn't everyone complain similarly, regardless of class?). Anywho, for PvM/Mods, AB 40 is more than adequate; but your plane/thinking landed loud and clear when it comes to PvP, let me assure you.
And I agree - when it comes to PvP, there are few weaklings. While this guy can parley (or use monk speed and sneak away, in the event of sneak immunity on a PvP level), if he's to parley proper with the big melee guys/gals, he'll likely need to put his UMD skills into motion, or need more (otherwise, if everyone's got sneak immunity, he'll just be a nice supporting character on a PvP level, which is fine, but . . . ) Thus, your point re: dual-wield, 'tis great thinking - and I want to let you know that.
Although designed for PvM, I will consider PvP possibilities *realistically* (really, your point's taken). Since his DC stun is *realistically* useless for PvP, in fact, sooner, let's give him the full benefit of the 10 proper hits/kamas - hears ya, I really do; and thanks. So, don't get bored, stay tuned . . .
Thanks!
btw, off-topic: congrats to the Edmonton Oilers of Alberta, Canada! (we like Gretzky, former Oiler, here in the mid-west, who once played for the Indy Ice Get that cup!
Edited By Robert Tyr on 05/30/06 03:48
Seriously, how many level 40 PvM/Mod environments are there? I have yet to find any outside Arena of Champions, which is kinda bootleg anyway. _________________ CATS!
Lol; that's a lot...Hafling then ^^
Just to be clear a WIS of 15 has exactly the same modifier as a WIS of 14, which affects all of the following in the same way:
Err, what are you talking about? 
, ok that and AC! LOL
