The Dragon Slayer: continuing the bardic and ye ole' Briton theme . . . (and a really decent story to come, I do promise
Got this idea, for a pally/rdd mix that I build quite some time ago, from old Celt, Gaul, and Norse legends of medieval times. The tale is of knights being infected by dragon's blood, of half-human/half-dragon beings once believed to walk the Ires and swim/hunt the Scottish lochs. A part of the Beowulf tales, and Arthurian legends, too. Even Shakespeare, Yeats and others wrote about these things; hey, but no pressure on me in terms of the story
Before I post such story, though, thought I'd see what folks here in the community thought about this one (now, don't be afraid to comment
In the build search, while Pal/sorc/rdd has been covered it seems, this class combo and character still remains fairly open. (To be honest, didn't really look at those others, only to see how often the subject matter has been covered; however, I happily point out that our very own Finn suggested the combo to another player/builder a while ago it seems, and that player didn't follow through. So, Finn drew one up, using the Gnome . . . I'll include the build links when I post the story; in the meantime, I'm a bit iffy when playing with a Pally, in public, due to the alignment issue (some folks are sensitive on that). Anyway, I throw this out, and look forward, as always, to everyone's comments
Alright, without further adieu:
The Dragon Slayer – Overview
Paladin (9), Bard (21), Red Dragon Disciple (10)
Starting Race: Human (Half-Human, Half-Drake)
Alignment: Start: Lawful Good / Finish: Neutral Good HPs: 460 (+26 Song)
Spell Casting: • Paladin Spells: Level 1 • Bard Spells: Level 6 o SR 21 + 1d20
o Casting per Day (or rest period): o 1st Level – 5 Spells o 2nd Level –5 Spells o 3rd Level – 5 Spells o 4th Level – 5 Spells o 5th Level – 5 Spells o 6th Level - 4 Spells • Also Skilled in the Use of Magical Devices (UMD)/Spellcraft
Final Skills (218 points): Concentration 37(40) Discipline 37(49) Perform 40(45) Spellcraft 38(40) Tumble 41(40) UMD 15(20) Lore 8(31) * Bard Song: adds +7 to all skills
Other Useful Information:
• Combat AB: at “the Cap” (+12 STR): +49 (non-buffed); +65-Plus (Buffed)
• Bard Song - at Level 21 Bard: o +2 AB, +3 Dam., +2 Fort, +3 Will, +2 Reflex, +7 Skills, +5 AC, +25 HPs (temp.) • Curse Song – at Level 21 Bard: o Opposite Effect/Weakens All Enemies within the Area of Effect (30’ Area)
08: Paladin(8): CHA+1, (CHA=16) *Start Process of Switching Alignment, here 09: Paladin(9): divine might * After Leveling, must complete alignment change
10: Bard(1): 11: Bard(2) 12: Red Dragon Disciple(1): CHA+1, improved critical, (CHA=17) 13: Red Dragon Disciple(2): (STR=18) 14: Red Dragon Disciple(3) 15: Bard(3): curse song 16: Red Dragon Disciple(4): STR+1, (STR=21) 17: Red Dragon Disciple(5) 18: Bard(4): lingering song 19: Red Dragon Disciple(6) 20: Red Dragon Disciple(7): STR+1, (STR=22), (CON=16) 21: Red Dragon Disciple(8): epic weapon focus 22: Bard(5) 23: Bard(6) 24: Bard(7): CHA+1, great strength I, (STR=23), (CHA=18) 25: Bard(8) 26: Bard(9) 27: Bard(10): great strength II, (STR=24) 28: Bard(11): STR+1, (STR=25) 29: Bard(12) 30: Bard(13): great strength III, (STR=26) 31: Bard(14) 32: Bard(15): STR+1, (STR=27) 33: Bard(16): great strength IV, (STR=28) 34: Bard(17) 35: Bard(18) 36: Red Dragon Disciple(9): STR+1, epic prowess, (STR=29), (INT=15) 37: Bard(19) 38: Bard(20) 39: Bard(21): lasting inspiration 40: Red Dragon Disciple(10): STR+1, {Darkvision}, (STR=34), (CHA=20)
Edited title to add new account name - Kail Pendragon
Edited By Kail Pendragon on 06/11/06 09:36
Nifty. While I never post builds that require an alignment shift, I've always loved the idea of a Pally/Bard combo. This has only one alignment shift, so I think that's pretty slick and more than acceptable.
At first glance, the only things I can see are:
Take only 40 ranks in Tumble, as the AC boost works off base ranks, not modified, so your 8 DEX is not going to affect that.
Take your Perform to 43. With your Bard Song active, that will push your Perform skill to 55, which gives you a full level 21 Curse Song.
I'd also start with 16 STR and 14 CHA, and put 4 boosts into CHA. That way you get your AB and damage boosts a bit earlier. Take a good look at where you get your next levle of Bard spells and where you need your CHA to hit 15 and 16 to utilize them and plan your boosts accordingly.
I'd even be tempted to take only 30 STR ad put 4 more into CHA. This will give you more mileage out for your Divine feats as well as a bit more Perform skill and some bonus spells. (You could adjust your Perform ranks a couple points lower accordinlgly if you do this).
I'd also dump Lingering Song and pick up one of: Blind Fight, Cleave, Knockdown, or Toughness.
Lastly, I don't think you've chosen any feats that require 13+ INT, so I'd start with 12 INT and 12 WIS. With a +2 WIS item, that will give you access to your bonus level 2 Pally spells for Bull's, Eagle's, or Aura of Glory (the latter two - especially Aura, which stacks with Eagle's, IIRC - would be very useful for Divine Might and Divine Shield).
Nifty build though, I quite like it.
Hey, Cinn: good to see ya! Thanks for the kind words on the build. I'm glad you like it! Your words of encouragement re: alignment are also appreciated; yes, I was a little iffy on that, but figured that here I'd be in good company I also appreciate your review.
Your comments on divine are well taken, and I can see where that would come in handy. I'll look into that and some of those other great suggestions of yours regarding feats/spells (yeah, I hears ya: once he/she's got the last.imp, given the class combo, that feat slot taken for lingering may indeed be better spent on something else . . . Ah, so many feats to consider, so few slots . . . LOL). Nice call - thanks!
As to INT, no probs re: feats, but a problem with the skills in terms of their number - he/she doesn't get a lot, which is kinda frustrating, and reason for the INT stat; gets boosted eventually by RDD, which is great, but not in time for catching up per se.
I suppose I could take some points from concentration or perhaps UMD, since spellcraft's high . . .
hmmm, more pally spells would def. be good, and esp. when they stack for Divine (sounds pretty darn good!) Great comments!
While this build has def. been fun and has some really neat benefits, he/she is an older character from my Pre-Guild Days ------> (loose translation: could use some of that magical "fresh eyes" polish. So, by all means, keep those great comments coming, while I work on that story!
~ Tyr
(thanks again, Cinn)
and if anyone's interested, not an RPG or still from the game, but still, a neat graphic of the legendary Beowulf, Prince of Geats:
Quote: Posted 06/03/06 05:29:14 (GMT) -- Robert Tyr
As to INT, no probs re: feats, but a problem with the skills in terms of their number - he/she doesn't get a lot, which is kinda frustrating, and reason for the INT stat; gets boosted eventually by RDD, which is great, but not in time for catching up per se.
But you ain't gaining even a single skillpoint by going 13 over 12. Not one. As in his entire career. When RDD gives you the extra INT, it immediately gives out 2 points. So, by putting INT to 12 and WIS to 12, that point is spent on an extra lvl 1 Pally spell. not much, but infinitly more than nothing. And like Cinn says, 2 WIS points from getting a 2nd lvl spell.
Why do you not take the RDD9 and -10 ASAP, that is a t lvl 21 and 22? The power boost from those two levels is worth postponing Bard even 2 further that you already did IMO.
Other than that, nice goings, oh and that alignment shift from Lawful to Neutral should easily be doable in almost any setting.
Rock on. _________________
Quote: Posted 03/06/06 18:56:45 (GMT) -- FinneousPJ Trollborn Asgardian by the master of the Norse legends, Grimnir himself!
Nicely done. Needs a bit of polish here and there, I echo Grim and Cin, drop the int to 12 and raise wis to 12 also start with a 16 strength and 14 charisma so you get that AB boost at the start. I'll also add drop lingering song and take still spell if you want to cast in battle. Actually feats like still spell, knockdown and blind-fight might warrant dropping a couple of great attribute feats to take them in epic levels. _________________ Two wrongs don't make a right but three lefts do.
Dittos on changing your starting stats.
You should also just finish RDD as soon as possible. Don't put it off till the end of the build, there's no benefit in doing so and getting to RDD 10 earlier will make you a lot more powerful as you level up.
The only reason I can see in your build is that you wanted to have bard 21 land on level 39 for lasting inspiration... but I have looked in the Feat.2da file and the prereq for lasting inspiration is Bard Song level 20 - so you should be able to take lasting insp on the 20th bard level, the 21st level and "epic bard" feat qualification isn't necessary for it.
Change improved critical to blindfight. Improved crit is nice, but blindfight is necessary.
Consider changing lingering song to knockdown, still spell (not really that vital actually), or to put improved critical back. You're getting lasting inspiration (eventually), which makes it redundant (though it will convenient to have lingering for most of your character's career, you can really use the free feat, too). _________________ Experience is the mother of good judgement; bad judgement is the father of experience.
Indeed Bard 20 is all you need for LI. Go Bard 20/Paladin 10 for the extra spell slot and HPs.
Cheers, Kail _________________ To hear the sound of Freedom, many gave their lives They fought for you and me Those memories will always live inside us, and now it's our time to be free
Well, good morning, everyone! And what nice compliments and great ideas to wake up to. And such a nice nod from Grim, the King of Norse lore no less - thank you (yes, indeed, a story to follow for you!)
Xylo, Mith, Kail: appreciate all of your great input, ideas, and that you like this drake-slayer, too! Thanks.
Yeah, you're right - I thought you had to go 21 ba to get LI, which formed much of my reasoning in the leveling scheme; but if you don't, well then . . .that's great to know (love how you guys always set me straight on these things . . . -> seriously, more pally buffs = good - Thanks for the info; and with that wonderful piece of knowledge, we can speed up the RDD, otherwise known as quickening the drakening
Blind Fight also a good comment. He/she does come out a bit weak in that department, when dealing with all those invisible/concealed undead and shadowy things - can get ugly. Curse song, war cry, and that dragon cone really come in handy for this; KD would be good, but I'm not sure that would be worth dropping imp.crit (hmmmm . . . def. Last.Imp. makes Ling.Song redundant, arrr (why can't we just get one more slot, just one more feat slot ....LOL). Will def consider switching LS for BF though, that does make sense. Also, stat idea for more WIS & AB makes a lot of sense, too. Nice call.
Polish and ideas are always good here
Nice to see you all, really glad you guys like him; and with all that great polish / ideas from you all ...
Indeed Bard 20 is all you need for LI. Go Bard 20/Paladin 10 for the extra spell slot and HPs.
Cheers, Kail
To do that AND get LI, he must do a second alignment change at lvl 39 before 40, to finish the build as Paladin. _________________ Dragonlance ROH is back, better than before! and I spend a little time here WoG
If he gets all the RDD lvls early on as suggested (and as I would do too) then yeah, good catch. Otherwise keep RDD 10 at 40th lvl and take 10 Paladin lvls straight out at start up.
Cheers, Kail _________________ To hear the sound of Freedom, many gave their lives They fought for you and me Those memories will always live inside us, and now it's our time to be free
Wow. All this great brainstorming - wonderful!
The Grimmer is right; as much as I would love to get pally level 2 spells in there (I know which ones you're thinking, and what a great thought); but not possible without another alignment change. Unfortunately, can't do that: wouldn't go over well and while it's rather easy to go from lawful to neutral (just act chaotic, get there in no time), the same isn't true the other way around. Once bitten by a drake, well, get wild of course, turning into a half-drake yourself (but great thoughts...again, I know the ones, yeppers, ...
But that's OK - if we change his starting stats, boost wis 1, we get one more level 1 spell, ie., prayer, which boosts his AB another +1 -- not bad for a level 1 spell! And that's a great call.
So much wonderful thinking and tweaking I tells ya; just so much fun Then, if we keep it levelled as is, run pally up 10, then bard, then rdd, and find or buy a nice +2 wis boost . . . that could work well too.
Let me cash it out and see what this looks like; good reasons def. for both - esp. since we're not then hampered by last.imp (cool!).
Keep those great thoughts coming! Love it!
Tyr
Edited By Robert Tyr on 06/03/06 13:59
Alright, just checked it out - unfortunately, as great a thought it was, re: pally level 2 spells, we'd seem to lose a level of RDD, unless we did the align.change on level 40; unfortunately, there's no way around it. But that's okay, we've plenty of bard and gonna get a second level 1 pally spell. And, best yet, with that great tip re: LI, we're gonna bring on those wings even sooner!
Let the drakening begin LOL
Tyr
Seriously, thanks guys: all this great polish and ideas, feeling even more inspired re: the accompanying story (you know you earned it! - another fine team effort)
I admire the shiny exuberance you throw into your builds. Can you spare a few drops of that? _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
Ariel, Ookla, RIDE!
...must be the effects of all that dragon blood I accidently ingested
(back at ya, Grizz! thanks -- appreciate you stopping by and enjoy your attitude/builds, too; alas, now back to that story - gotta be fit for our Norse King after all
Quote: Posted 06/04/06 00:18:39 (GMT) -- Robert Tyr
...must be the effects of all that dragon blood I accidently ingested
(back at ya, Grizz! thanks -- appreciate you stopping by and enjoy your attitude/builds, too; alas, now back to that story - gotta be fit for our Norse King after all
WOW! we should seriously frame this one post! I think its the shortest one I've seen Tyr post EVER!!! LOL jk
this is WAYYY off topic, but I once learned something of men and women and words. Basically it said that men use about 12000 words every day, no more no less (on average), while women use 25000 words EVERY DAY! Im not sure why I put this in here, but it seems a strikingly relevant observation! or not!
Like grizz said, PLEASE pass out whatever you are on to the rest of us ! Then maybe I could write up one of my builds with more "exuberance" (something that ALL my builds sorely lack )
Peace
LOL
Hi, Av: in my life outside the realm, my readers tell me they'd enjoy my works even more if they were (are we all sitting down for this) ... LONGER .... tee hee (so, mind if I quote you on that?!!
Totally Off-Topic: Your note about men and women is very astute; back in pre-historic days, most men congregated on the hunt i.e. mammoths, whereas most women congregated back in the cave/early village, and began the farming life, at that time it's believed in social groups. That's not to say that women didn't hunt in prehistoric times ('cause many did), or that men weren't back at the cave planting things/helping out ('cause many did that, too); however, male hunt and female farm was the basic rule.
My work brings me into contact with some psych types, and many have postulated that, since hunters didn't need as elaborate communication skills as compared to ie. social group farming, .... (negligible though; modern brain is pretty much the same, thus I think it's more about individual personality, but the ancient brain is still there . . . These are just theories. No cave men or cave women around to chat with of course Cool point though, and very astute. (And I'm so quoting you!)
ON Topic: As to passing some of that dragon blood out, would be my pleasure. With all the great comments I've received on this character --all of it valid and good (and much appreciated -- we're quickening the drakening. In turn, will have lots of drake blood to hand out . . .
Off Topic: I have so much fun doing this, and really glad to see that it comes across - that's what hobbies are all about, and I know that lots of you guys/gals here are having a great time, too - I see it in many of your builds, everyone having fun, and that's terrific!).
On Topic: So, stay tuned for the updated version and of course the accompanying story (it'll be a short one, but promise to make it enjoyable) Really, thanks everyone
Edited By Robert Tyr on 06/04/06 19:11
*stirs from deep slumber, sniffs the air* Dragon blood passing around? Something must be done about it... *goes back to sleep atop his huge hoard, one draconic eye left open* _________________ Wait for me Dragon, we'll meet in the sky By fire and magic, I'm sworn Hell is calling, we cannot be denied Fly to the blackness of the Storm
We must die to be reborn!
Ride that Dragon, Ride! (NICE!!!!) -
Note: Still working on that story, but thought we'd have a wee gander at what this fellow looks like, adding all those great layers of fine-quality polish (it's just so good here: thanks!)
"He who fights too long against dragons becomes a dragon himself; and if you gaze too long into the abyss, the abyss will gaze into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche
The Dragon Slayer – Overview: Paladin (9), Bard (21), Red Dragon Disciple (10)
Starting Race: Human (Half-Human, Half-Drake)
Alignment: Start: Lawful Good Finish: Neutral Good HPs: 460 (+26-30 Singing)
SPELL CASTING: • Bard Spells: Level 6 o SR 21 + 1d20
o Bard Spell Casting per Day (or rest period): o 1st Level – 5 Spells (Protection, Grease, Balagarn’s Horn, Mage Armor, +1 More) o 2nd Level –5 Spells (Eagle’s Splendor, Bull’s Strength, Owl’s Wisdom, Cat’s, +1) o 3rd Level – 5 Spells (Haste, Greater Magic Weapon, Keen Edge, Curse, +1 More) o 4th Level – 5 Spells (War Cry, Improved Invisibility, +3 More) o 5th Level – 5 Spells (Ethereal Visage, Mind Fog, Greater Dispelling, +2 More) o 6th Level – 4 Spells (Ice Storm, Dirge, Energy Buffer, +1 More)
• Paladin Spells: Level 2 o 1st Level – 2 Spells (Divine Favor, Bless) o 2nd Level – Open (1 Available with Owl’s (or +2 WIS-boost item): Aid or Aura of Glory
• Also Skilled in the Use of Magical Devices (UMD)/Spellcraft
FINAL SKILLS (233 points): Concentration 40 (43) Discipline 42 (54) Perform 43(48) Spellcraft 43(45) Tumble 40(39) UMD 15(20) Lore 8(31) * Bard Song: adds +7 (+9) to all skills, see below.
OTHER DAMAGE-TYPES:
• PALADIN: o Smite Evil, Sonic Damage (Smiting AB: adds *Cha-bonus to AB: as above, +5 (+9 Self-Buffed); Sonic Damage: as above, +9 Damage (for Paladin Level) ; o Lay-on-Hands, Positive Energy Damage [*Cha-bonus (*9)x9 (or, 81 total)]
• DRAGON: o Breath Weapon, Fire (6d10 Fire Damage (or, 60 total), Cone Effect)
OTHER USEFUL INFORMATION:
* Combat AB: at “the Cap” (+12 STR): +49 (non-buffed); +65-plus (Self-Buffed Only) * CHA-Bonus (Divine): at “the Cap” (+12 CHA): +11 (non-buffed); +15 (Self-Buffed)
Bard Song/Curse Song: • Bard Song - at Level 21 Bard (48 Perform): Inspires self and all allies in area of effect (30’ area), as follows: o +2 AB, +3 Dam., +2 Fort, +3 Will, +2 Reflex, +7 Skills, +5 AC, +25 HPs (temp.)
• Curse Song – at Level 21 Bard (55 Perform, i.e., +7 Skill (song buffed)): Weakens all enemies within area of effect (30’ area), as follows: o -2 AB, -3 Dam., -2 Fort, -3 Will, -2 Reflex, -9 Skills, -5 AC, and -30 HPs (damage)
WHAT FOLLOWS is the EPIC PATH of the DRAGON SLAYER, during the first 40 levels of his/her career:
08: Paladin(8): CHA+1, (CHA=15) * Start the Process of Switching Alignment, here 09: Paladin(9): divine might * After Leveling, must complete alignment change
10: Bard(1): 11: Red Dragon Disciple(1) 12: Red Dragon Disciple(2): CHA+1, blind fight –OR- still spell, (STR=19), (CHA=16) 13: Red Dragon Disciple(3) 14: Red Dragon Disciple(4): (STR=21) 15: Bard(2): curse song 16: Red Dragon Disciple(5): CHA+1, (CHA=17) 17: Bard(3) 18: Red Dragon Disciple(6): improved critical 19: Red Dragon Disciple(7): (CON=16) 20: Red Dragon Disciple(8): STR+1, (STR=22) 21: Red Dragon Disciple(9): epic weapon focus, (INT=14) 22: Red Dragon Disciple(10): {Darkvision}, (STR=26), (CHA=19) 23: Bard(4) 24: Bard(5): STR+1, epic prowess, (STR=27) 25: Bard(6) 26: Bard(7) 27: Bard(8): great strength I, (STR=28) 28: Bard(9): CHA+1, (CHA=20) 29: Bard(10) 30: Bard(11): great strength II, (STR=29) 31: Bard(12) 32: Bard(13): STR+1, (STR=30) 33: Bard(14): great strength III, (STR=31) 34: Bard(15) 35: Bard(16) 36: Bard(17): STR+1, great strength IV, (STR=33) 37: Bard(18) 38: Bard(19) 39: Bard(20): lasting inspiration 40: Bard(21): STR+1, (STR=34)
Tip: Bard Ability-Stat Boosts (2nd Level Spells) are very long-lasting (1 hr/level). Thus, make sure to buff yourself before adventuring (or after any rest period), and you’ll enjoy all these buffs, including: increased smiting power, self-healing/positive energy damage, and spells.
"Come not between the dragon, and his wrath." - William Shakespeare, King Lear
Edited By Robert Tyr on 06/05/06 20:14
Nice -- oh, and I worship Nietzsche! -- but, drop Bard 21 for FTR10 and pick Armor Skin. _________________ "... C'est un pays plus nu que la terre polaire — Ni bêtes, ni ruisseaux, ni verdure, ni bois!
Or il n'est pas d'horreur au monde qui surpasse La froide cruauté de ce soleil de glace Et cette immense nuit semblable au vieux Chaos; ..."
Nice -- oh, and I worship Nietzsche! -- but, drop Bard 21 for FTR10 and pick Armor Skin.
You think Paladin9 would let him take the 10th level of it as fighter? _________________ Dragonlance ROH is back, better than before! and I spend a little time here WoG
You think Paladin9 would let him take the 10th level of it as fighter?
Good point! Change that to Paladin10, then _________________ "... C'est un pays plus nu que la terre polaire — Ni bêtes, ni ruisseaux, ni verdure, ni bois!
Or il n'est pas d'horreur au monde qui surpasse La froide cruauté de ce soleil de glace Et cette immense nuit semblable au vieux Chaos; ..."
Quote: Posted 06/05/06 20:30:39 (GMT) -- FinneousPJ Nice -- oh, and I worship Nietzsche! ...
Hey, Finn: thanks for the compliment! Um ... we know you meant to write Pally and not FTR, didn't we?! - darn those typos!... - (cute, Grimm! Oh, if only . . .
Chose Pally over Ftr for many reasons. least of all the Pally/RDD/Bard combo remains pretty much wide open - being but a very small handful, and nothing close. Also, this is an updated version of an older build of mine, and when I imagined a dragon slayer, both back then and still now, Pally naturally cames to mind. I think of the Pally as a Noble and a Knight, one that is courageous and kind. And thus most fitting to be the "dragon slayer" (and, in turn, placing him/her at the most risk to become a half-drake).
------> (loose translation: could use some of that magical "fresh eyes" polish. So, by all means, keep those great comments coming, while I work on that story! 
)