Artemis Entreri (Based on the assassin from the R. A. Salvatore novels)
Originally, when I started this build, I was striving to be as literally accurate as I could be. When I was done, I was left with a substandard sneak attacker who was more intimidating then the threat of childhood belting from your parents (but for practically no reason). He was alright, (although he wasn’t playable until level 21) and he wasn’t terribly good at hitting things.
So in the end I made this guy instead, and am too uncaring to change his build name. He’s still Artemis to me. He’s still the same sort of character, but he’s much better at it, and is playable from much earlier on. Interestingly enough, this is my first stab at an assassin… no pun intended.
To be honest, I had a hard time finding a build like mine at all (aside from Death becomes you by Kaliban99). For a while I thought to my self (what a wonderful world… just kidding ), I’ve either stumbled across a semi-untapped resource, or have made a glaringly huge mistake of epic proportions!!! …I chose to believe the former.
The synergy between death attack and criticals is outstanding.
Alignment - Lawful Evil (that’s just the way he seems to me)
Playable from 9 - 40
PvP - Definitely; No questions asked. If you’re going to go PvM, I thoroughly suggest playing HotU (to get through the earlier levels faster) or play the OC on the easiest setting until you hit level 9.
Stats: Starting (Ending)
STR 13 DEX 17 (30) CON 10 WIS 8 INT 16 CHA 8
HP - 316 (if maxed) Natural AC = 28 Recommended equipment AC = 63 Death Attack = 11d6 with 34 DC (not too shabby, if I do say so myself)
AB - main hand, mundane rapier +43/+38/+33/+28. Off-hand, mundane dagger +43/+38 (with all buffs, add +6 to each attack)
Saves (recommended equipment) Fort - 19 Reflex - 33 (39) Will - 15
Recommended equipment Whatever rapier you can find for the main hand, but the off hand MUST use a dagger with Vampiric regeneration (I recommend Bloodsucker, seeing as it’s keen). Last words (+20 to Hide and Move Silently Bracers of Armour +10 Ring of Protection +10 Ring of Power Belt of Agility +10 Boots of the sun soul +5 Epic Amulet of Health Cloak of epic spell resistance
Strengths: -Can dish out healthy amounts of damage with both improved criticals and Death attack combined - average 38.5 Sneak + 13.5 Critical from a mundane rapier. It may not sound like much, but remember that this is using mundane weapons. It is very rare to see level 40 characters using non-magical weapons)
-Using Keen weapons - Main hand has a critical percentage of 55% (10 - 20), off hand has a 40% (13 - 20) chance.
-High AC (63), Hide, Move Silently, UMD, Search, and Discipline skills.
-Total Initiative bonus of +20
Weaknesses: -Rather low health HP for a build, regardless of type.
-Saves are pitifully low (aside from reflex).
-Has an almost impossible time against constructs, undead, and anything else with critical immunity
-Lacks evasion, Improved evasion, epic dodge, and Hide in plain cheese that most assassin builds are renowned for.
-Has one open ended stat (not a weakness, but it seems wasteful)
Any comments? Suggestions?
Fixed format - Kail Pendragon
Edited By Kail Pendragon on 06/10/06 23:22
A good one. Use this format for posting builds. PM me or any of the other moderators the changes, or post it in this thread. As it is now, it's way to messy.
Take a look at some of the builds here and you'll get the idea.
Quote: Posted 06/10/06 21:47:03 (GMT) -- Big Meph
The synergy between death attack and criticals is outstanding.
Could you please explain your point because I've always though it to be the contrary: Sneak Attacker type builds, IMO, gain the least with WM/focusing on criticals. _________________ "... C'est un pays plus nu que la terre polaire — Ni bêtes, ni ruisseaux, ni verdure, ni bois!
Or il n'est pas d'horreur au monde qui surpasse La froide cruauté de ce soleil de glace Et cette immense nuit semblable au vieux Chaos; ..."
Quote: Posted 06/10/06 21:47:03 (GMT) -- Big Meph
-Using Keen weapons - Main hand has a critical percentage of 55% (10 - 20), off hand has a 40% (13 - 20) chance.
You cannot actually calculate a critical percentage like that, because in the game it depends on your opponent's AC. _________________ "... C'est un pays plus nu que la terre polaire — Ni bêtes, ni ruisseaux, ni verdure, ni bois!
Or il n'est pas d'horreur au monde qui surpasse La froide cruauté de ce soleil de glace Et cette immense nuit semblable au vieux Chaos; ..."
What Finneous is suggesting, is that if you nail an opponent with a DA, he's going to be dead in spite of the Criticals. The dualwielded sneak dice from 21 levels of Assassin are more than enough to do the job.
Now, that really isn't the greatest problem with this build. You don't have any WS/EWS which seems almost a given in this type of build. At the very least, I would drop 6WM levels for 4 Fighter, get those 2 feats, then spend the other 2 on Assassin levels, get 1 more sneak dice, 2 higher DA DC, and 1 more Epic Bonus feat.
My first preference, obviously, would be to drop WM altogether. _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
Ariel, Ookla, RIDE!
Dex-builds doesn't really benefit from weaponmaster in the same way STR builds do (Just ask the darn dexers on my server that had a taste of my crits the other day, vs their lousy crits in the 40's), so I am really tempted to agree with the Dwarflord. Say what you want about the bearded one, but heed his advice on assassins. _________________ Dragonlance ROH is back, better than before! and I spend a little time here WoG
What Finneous is suggesting, is that if you nail an opponent with a DA, he's going to be dead in spite of the Criticals. The dualwielded sneak dice from 21 levels of Assassin are more than enough to do the job.
And yet, more often than not the same enemies that are immune to DA are also immune to Criticals. _________________ "... C'est un pays plus nu que la terre polaire — Ni bêtes, ni ruisseaux, ni verdure, ni bois!
Or il n'est pas d'horreur au monde qui surpasse La froide cruauté de ce soleil de glace Et cette immense nuit semblable au vieux Chaos; ..."
I think by the outstanding synergy, he means if you crit on a successful sneak (death) attack (without the paralysis effect firing), you'll do tremendous damage. I realize the sneak damage is not multiplied on a crit, but the sneak damage on top of the crit damge = ouch.
Wow! I have to admit I wasn't expecting so much response in such a little amount of time. Don't worry I wasn't ignoring you all, I just wasn't at home. This is going to take me a while to respond to everyone.
Quote: FinneousPJ Sunday, 11 June 2006 08:52AM Could you please explain your point because I've always though it to be the contrary: Sneak Attacker type builds, IMO, gain the least with WM/focusing on criticals.
I did mean what Cinnabar said about the extra damage. But I also meant that one can be a back up of the other. More often then not, if you aren't getting a death attack, then your at least getting a critical for back up.
Overall, the reason I added the WM levels, were for role playing reasons. If anyone has read any of the books, aside from Drizzt, Artemis is one of the few characters with enough skill with specific weapons to be labelled a WM.
Quote: FinneousPJ Sunday, 11 June 2006 08:54AM You cannot actually calculate a critical percentage like that, because in the game it depends on your opponent's AC.
That's very true Finneous. I meant to say that working under the assumption that you're going to hit them, then you have those chances of getting a critical.
Quote: grizzled_dwarflord Sunday, 11 June 2006 10:03AM What Finneous is suggesting, is that if you nail an opponent with a DA, he's going to be dead in spite of the Criticals. The dualwielded sneak dice from 21 levels of Assassin are more than enough to do the job.
Now, that really isn't the greatest problem with this build. You don't have any WS/EWS which seems almost a given in this type of build. At the very least, I would drop 6WM levels for 4 Fighter, get those 2 feats, then spend the other 2 on Assassin levels, get 1 more sneak dice, 2 higher DA DC, and 1 more Epic Bonus feat.
My first preference, obviously, would be to drop WM altogether.
Unfortunately all those WM levels are necessary. The reason being that he can apply the exact same bonuses to both of his weapons, not just the rapier (yet again, a roleplaying decision). Most of my dual wielders use the exact same weapon in both hands, so were this a serious build, this would have been much less of a problem.
Cutting out the dagger would give me an extra 3 feats to use, not to mention the extra 6 levels, which could be put in fighter for 3 more feats, split the way you suggested, or even put them all in assassin for 6 more to DA DC.
The fighter levels were (obviously) taken just to meet the rather harsh prerequisites of WM (plus the Base AB). I tried this with a rogue build (as stated earlier), and found I was still paying for WM by the time I was a level 7 assassin (the benefit of the build was that it had 22 levels in assassin + 3d6 sneak attack + evasion).
Quote: Grimnir77 Sunday, 11 June 2006 10:13AM Dex-builds doesn't really benefit from weaponmaster in the same way STR builds do (Just ask the darn dexers on my server that had a taste of my crits the other day, vs their lousy crits in the 40's), so I am really tempted to agree with the Dwarflord. Say what you want about the bearded one, but heed his advice on assassins.
I am well aware of the problems with dex based WM's (this isn't my first one, and probably won't be my last), AND dwarflord's experience with assassins (I've read through his builds, loved Heart of Darkness , but it was far too old to reply too).
While there is the lack of both Overwhelming and Devastating Critical, the main short fall is the lack of extra strength damage to multiply.
In the books, Artemis is not that strong a guy. He has slightly above average strength, but he mostly fights using precision, balance and speed. A dexterity based build mad more sense (even if it is weaker).
Quote: Finneous Sunday, 11 June 2006 10:43AM And yet, more often than not the same enemies that are immune to DA are also immune to Criticals.
That is true, but keep this in mind. While all creatures immune to criticals are immune to sneak attack, only some (most) enemies immune to sneak attacks are immune to criticals. I still know what you mean though.
I would like to thank everyone for their contributions, and I hoped that I helped to clear up my reasons. Oh and thanks to Kail for cleaning up my build... yet again... sorry .
EDIT: I might redo this build (as a double rapier wielder, or a dagger wielding halfling) in light of the suggestions that were made (mostly by grizzled_dwarflord). I'll keep you updated.
Edited By Big Meph on 06/11/06 06:56
*Rubs temples trying desparately to remember Entreri's Stats* As I recall, Enteri was primarily a fighter/rogue with only one token assassin level. You might have been better off dumping assassin for rogue, and still have stayed true to his character. To be fair, when Artemis first appeared there was no assassin class. Rogue would give you several advantages including: epic dodge, a ton of skillpoints and evasion.
I might also drop the starting dex a bit (to 15?) and up con a bit (14?), maybe raise str to 14. Don't forget artemis can take a pounding. I suspect he also has a high will save (can use charon's claw and he's immune to the crystal shard's mind control), though there isn't much you can do about that unless you go rogue and take slippery mind and maybe epic will. _________________ Two wrongs don't make a right but three lefts do.
*Rubs temples trying desparately to remember Entreri's Stats* As I recall, Enteri was primarily a fighter/rogue with only one token assassin level. You might have been better off dumping assassin for rogue, and still have stayed true to his character. To be fair, when Artemis first appeared there was no assassin class.
I've never even played a D&D game with artemis in it. In fact, aside from NWN + expansions and the unexpanded Icewind dale, I haven't played ANY D&D games.
Quote: Rogue would give you several advantages including: epic dodge, a ton of skillpoints and evasion.
Your right about that. I just read assassin, and thought I would take the most blunt route. There are also a few assassin abilities (like spellcasting) that don't make much sense with him.
I don't suppose you know which book has as the main plot Drizzt getting captured by House Baenre, and then rescued by Catti-Brie with the help of Artemis (and maybe Jarlaxle)? I read through it once, but that was some time ago, and I have no idea what it was called.
Edited By Big Meph on 06/11/06 11:18
Well, making stats for book-characters is just plain impossible. Go with what you feel make him right. Artemis was an assassin extremely skilled in his trade. Neither he nor Drizzt wore armor, two high levels going at each other with DnD ruleset with that little defense would end the fight in a round or two. They fought for a long time without even connecting a blow. When you make builds like these, give them your feel, R.A.Salvatore didn't exactly bother about thinking Artemis is a fighter6/Rogue8/assassin1. so make it as you please. I would go with fighter/Rogue/Assassin, with EWS in both weapons.
[/slighly offtopic] As for IC, well, say what you want, it doesn't really increase damage all that much, even with enchanted weapons and a x3 modifier. Nice take on Entreri anyhow, he was quite fleshed out and an interesting villain. _________________ Dragonlance ROH is back, better than before! and I spend a little time here WoG
Quote: Posted 06/11/06 11:14:43 (GMT) -- Big Meph
I don't suppose you know which book has as the main plot Drizzt getting captured by House Baenre, and then rescued by Catti-Brie with the help of Artemis (and maybe Jarlaxle)? I read through it once, but that was some time ago, and I have no idea what it was called.
I think it's Starless Night (Legacy of the Drow 2) _________________ "... C'est un pays plus nu que la terre polaire — Ni bêtes, ni ruisseaux, ni verdure, ni bois!
Or il n'est pas d'horreur au monde qui surpasse La froide cruauté de ce soleil de glace Et cette immense nuit semblable au vieux Chaos; ..."
Well, making stats for book-characters is just plain impossible. Go with what you feel make him right. Artemis was an assassin extremely skilled in his trade. Neither he nor Drizzt wore armor, two high levels going at each other with DnD ruleset with that little defense would end the fight in a round or two. They fought for a long time without even connecting a blow.
That's why my build of Artemis is Dex based. He doesn't wear armour, yet he goes through most battles unscathed, assumedly he dodges everything.
In terms of D&D though, Drizzt and Artemis should both have a parry skill somewhere in the high 70 - 90's, which I would gladly do were it not for the fact that parry really sucks in this (I recall seeing on NWNWiki about there being a bug that causes this, but I never looked into it).
Quote: [/slighly offtopic] As for IC, well, say what you want, it doesn't really increase damage all that much, even with enchanted weapons and a x3 modifier.
It's not really off topic, seeing as we were talking about it earlier. I fully realise the weakness of Higher crits in Dex based builds (more specifically, sneakers), but WM is also taken for the bonus to AB and the points in Discipline - in addition to the crit based feats.
Thank you Finneous for the book name. With exams and work, I didn't have enough mental capacity left to go through memories.
Finally, I am working on a new build that is sort of a cross between this and Kaliban's Death Becomes You (if Kaliban's reading this... Pretty Please ?). Still dex based though, and it is a halfling instead (I'm such a sucker for those little guys... ).
Edited By Big Meph on 06/11/06 13:33
Quote: Posted 06/11/06 13:24:05 (GMT) -- Big Meph
That's why my build of Artemis is Dex based. He doesn't wear armour, yet he goes through most battles unscathed, assumedly he dodges everything.
In terms of D&D though, Drizzt and Artemis should both have a parry skill somewhere in the high 70 - 90's, which I would gladly do were it not for the fact that parry really sucks in this (I recall seeing on NWNWiki about there being a bug that causes this, but I never looked into it).
They wouldn't have parry. First of all, they're official stas put them in the range around 15-18, and second, parry is a NwN only skill. Luckily bugged, and gone from NwN 2. _________________ I see the fear you have inside, you can run but never hide. I will hunt you down and tear you limb from limb.
I run the Pre-Epic Builders guild. Join and share your experience.
Um... this may sound completely ignorant, but what official stats? Where does one find these stats?
Also, I said that about parry because yet again in the books, they fight by getting into a rythm from which they can both predict strikes, and launch counter-attacks at any openings they find. Sounds a lot like parry to me...
It's nice to hear that parry is going to be scrapped from NWN 2, but I still like the idea of it.
Edited By Big Meph on 06/12/06 02:19
i think there was some on the WotC pages, but I couldn't find it now. _________________ I see the fear you have inside, you can run but never hide. I will hunt you down and tear you limb from limb.
I run the Pre-Epic Builders guild. Join and share your experience.
Oh well, no great loss. Thanks for trying !
The official stats are in the Forgotten Realms books.
However, these stats print them as CR 18 characters, when realistically they should be somewhere around CR 35, given the book descriptions, and built using many classes and feats from many different books (Drizzt can walk on snow without breaking it ... tell me that isn't monk levels). Of course, they don't want to build any non-mage with power approaching the epic mages in the books.
Realistically, since they're t3h 4w3s0m3 st0ry characters, they don't work very well with any form of D&D stats. _________________ CATS!
In the FR Campaign Setting book he's listed as a Rog 4/Rgr 1/Ftr 12/Asn 1 with Longsword/Dagger and WS on both.
14 STR 20 DEX 15 CON 16 INT 16 WIS 13 CHA _________________ "... C'est un pays plus nu que la terre polaire — Ni bêtes, ni ruisseaux, ni verdure, ni bois!
Or il n'est pas d'horreur au monde qui surpasse La froide cruauté de ce soleil de glace Et cette immense nuit semblable au vieux Chaos; ..."
), I’ve either stumbled across a semi-untapped resource, or have made a glaringly huge mistake of epic proportions!!! 
…I chose to believe the former.
, but it was far too old to reply too). 
.
?). Still dex based though, and it is a halfling instead (I'm such a sucker for those little guys... 
).
!
The official stats are in the Forgotten Realms books.