Skills Discipline: 43. Hide: 43. Move Silently: 43. Open Lock: 22. Spot: 43. Tumble: 43. Use Magic Device: 43.
HP: 15 Levels of Rangerx10=150. 7 Levels of Weapon Masterx10=70. 18 levels of Assassinx6=108. 150+70+108=328. AC: Base Cloth and Base Tower Shield: 35. Amulet of Armor +5, Belt of Agility +5, Boots of the Sun Soul +5, Bracers of Dexterity +5, Cloak of the Bat, Rapier +5, Ring of Power, Ring of the Rogue, Robes of the Shining Hand, Thieves' Hood, Tower Shield +5: 66.
AB: Base Rapier: +47/+42/+37/+32. Amulet of Armor +5, Belt of Agility +5, Boots of the Sun Soul +5, Bracers of Dexterity +5, Cloak of the Bat, Rapier +5, Ring of Power, Ring of the Rogue, Robes of the Shining Hand, Thieves' Hood, Tower Shield +5: +58/+53/+48/+43.
Saves ..start/end/gear(As mentioned above).
Fort: 2/20/20. Reflex: 4/31/37. Will: 2/18/18.
Edit. Removed NwScript. Had no function, just looked a bit queer. Removed class-specific feats. Added bolding to playability. Added missing feat at lvl 21. Grim
Edited By Grimnir77 on 06/20/06 15:21
It's a good build, but I do have a couple of thoughts to put forward. Actually, it's just one thorough point, but never mind that.
Seeing as your Death attack DC is already going to be pretty low (20), you might want to consider trading one level of assassin for another level of Ranger, to be taken on an epic feat level (say 30). On that level, swap Great Dex 1 for Bane of Enemies instead. You'll lose 1 AC, 1 AB, and 1 on all skills, but you'll gain a +2 to hit favoured enemies +2d6 extra damage against them.
Unfortunately, I have very little experience with rangers, so I'm not entirely sure this works.
Also, instead of taking epic prowess, seeing as you're specialising in Rapiers, I think you would be better off taking EWF: Rapier.
Hmmm...Thanks for the suggestion, I'll play around with it. As for the EWF, that is taken at level 21, I somehow skipped over it when I was writing it up. >.> Also, Bane of Enemies requires 5 Favored Enemies, now that I think about it...I have a build I'm going to post in a day or two I think you might like, though. It's somewhat like this, but it has Bane of Enemies and such...
Edited By DragonRaider69 on 06/20/06 06:32
Hello. Don't include class-abilities like poison save +2 in your build-progression, makes it messy. There is nothing wrong with your format per se, but I edited out that info, and added your missing feat at 21.
It's a good build. Regarding Bane of enemies you don't need 5 FE's, you need 21 levels of ranger. That's it. That usually means you have 5 FE's, but not always. Considered Rogue in here? Not sure it would weaken the build, although Ranger and assassins have some nice synergies. _________________ I see the fear you have inside, you can run but never hide. I will hunt you down and tear you limb from limb.
I run the Pre-Epic Builders guild. Join and share your experience.
Heh, alright. Teaches me to just copy and paste from LETO.
I still don't understand why people make PvP dex builds that don't have epic dodge and don't pay attention to their con score or hitpoints. Who are you going to kill before they kill you? _________________ Experience is the mother of good judgement; bad judgement is the father of experience.
I still don't understand why people make PvP dex builds that don't have epic dodge and don't pay attention to their con score or hitpoints. Who are you going to kill before they kill you?
Me. But my builds are never designed for PvP... _________________ This signature will self-destruct in 5 seconds...
I still don't understand why people make PvP dex builds that don't have epic dodge and don't pay attention to their con score or hitpoints. Who are you going to kill before they kill you?
Because with a high enough AC, and the damage that can be dealt. Epic dodge would be adding 1 inch more icing on top. Thinking a single feat is what make -any- build, or for that matter, picking out 1 part of any combat situation is a mistake that dates back to the 13 chapters.
Examine it as a whole. Auto-dodging 1 attack is nice. So is avoiding a broken nose in a bar fight. Neither matters worth a damned if the enemy breaks every one of your ribs. _________________
Quote: You shouldn't be offended by this; by hacker standards, your respondent is showing you a rough kind of respect simply by not ignoring you.
I still don't understand why people make PvP dex builds that don't have epic dodge and don't pay attention to their con score or hitpoints. Who are you going to kill before they kill you?
Because with a high enough AC, and the damage that can be dealt. Epic dodge would be adding 1 inch more icing on top. Thinking a single feat is what make -any- build, or for that matter, picking out 1 part of any combat situation is a mistake that dates back to the 13 chapters.
Examine it as a whole. Auto-dodging 1 attack is nice. So is avoiding a broken nose in a bar fight. Neither matters worth a damned if the enemy breaks every one of your ribs.
Where is the "high enough AC" in most of these builds, though? He's got 66 AC after +5 equipment in his writeup - many of my non PvP melee builds can hit that little AC using +5 equipment.
A strong battle cleric build can selfbuff its AB to the point where the first, fourth, and fifth attacks in each round will hit 66 AC practically every time with no gear at all. (Of course, he can also just Harm you and sneeze). A bard with 40 base AB can, through a combination of selfbuff and curse song, hit it almost every time with its full AB attacks too. Even better, said bard will be able to hit you with Knockdowns against a discipline check that isn't very high to start with and has been penalized by the curse song. They'll knock you down and then you'd better hope they roll a 1 at some point because they'll just keep hitting you with KDs and preventing you from getting up.
The short version is that a serious PvP melee character is not going to have their accuracy very highly impeded by less than 75 AC post-buffs and gear. There are a lot of melee builds on this forum with an AB in the 40-45 area but that aren't designed for PvP and have enough buffs and side capabilities to get their licks in against less than 70 AC, for that matter.
The only people who aren't gonna hit you on their first attack against 66 AC are people who have other ways of kicking your butt, spellcasters. The problem is that they don't need to hit you and they aren't going to try. _________________ Experience is the mother of good judgement; bad judgement is the father of experience.
Add to that as well that, contrary to the feat description, Epic Dodge avoids the first successful hit of the round, not the first attack. It will negate a natural 20 hit as well, so aside from what Xylo pointed out, if you're up against an opponent who can only hit you on a natural 20, well he basically won't hit you. Period. _________________ This signature will self-destruct in 5 seconds...
Don't worry Xylophone. Soonish I'm going to post an old build I made 2 or so months ago that you might like. Fully buffed AC 67 (75 when using a good small shield), 50% concealment and epic dodge. In all honesty, I can't remember the last time he got hit.
Oh, you can make a cleric that can beat a pure melee build...Some accomplishment, bud. I never claimed this build could beat everything on the freaking forums. Nor did I claim it could beat any Cleric. You want a build that can thrash your clerics? Good, because I got plenty I'm willing to post. Honestly, NWN Powerbuilding is like playing a game of chess...Some of us are good, some of us have about as much skill as those kids they keep from everyone else in High School. This build can beat PLENTY of other melees, though...And the MAIN reason it had 66 AC is because about half of that equipment doesn't give AC, AND he has no haste with that gear. I don't go on your builds and say "Such and Such can thrash it!" You don't do the same to mine.
Oh, you can make a cleric that can beat a pure melee build...Some accomplishment, bud. I never claimed this build could beat everything on the freaking forums. Nor did I claim it could beat any Cleric. You want a build that can thrash your clerics? Good, because I got plenty I'm willing to post. Honestly, NWN Powerbuilding is like playing a game of chess...Some of us are good, some of us have about as much skill as those kids they keep from everyone else in High School. This build can beat PLENTY of other melees, though...And the MAIN reason it had 66 AC is because about half of that equipment doesn't give AC, AND he has no haste with that gear. I don't go on your builds and say "Such and Such can thrash it!" You don't do the same to mine.
Xylo's not trying to provoke you. He's merely pointing out what he sees are the build's weaknesses. If you don't want to hear that, cease posting. _________________ "We keep our Feast of Feasts, sure of our bourne, Our aims self-same: The Guest of Guests, friend Zarathustra, came! The world now laughs, the grisly veil was torn, And Light and Dark were one that wedding-morn."
Keeping this discussion civil will make me a happier moderator, if anyone cares
This said, as Finn points out, Xylo makes some valid points and is explaining what kind of issues this build has and what kind of builds would give it a hard time and he was answering to ChaosInTwilight in this occasion about the claimed high AC (btw, ED is no icing on the cake, it is the cake IMO). Doesn't look at all like he was trolling you (nor would it be his style, for what I know).
Cheers, Kail _________________ To hear the sound of Freedom, many gave their lives They fought for you and me Those memories will always live inside us, and now it's our time to be free
Keeping this discussion civil will make me a happier moderator, if anyone cares
We're not here to make you happy, mister _________________ "We keep our Feast of Feasts, sure of our bourne, Our aims self-same: The Guest of Guests, friend Zarathustra, came! The world now laughs, the grisly veil was torn, And Light and Dark were one that wedding-morn."
Deep inside me I knew the unpleasant truth
Cheers, Kail _________________ To hear the sound of Freedom, many gave their lives They fought for you and me Those memories will always live inside us, and now it's our time to be free
Sorry if you were offended, I was indeed replying to someone else, and if you don't like my input feel free to ignore it. However, I'd say that you do so at your own peril.
It helps to have a thick skin when posting things for public consumption.
Edit - I should add, most of my builds are designed for PvE because I feel that the majority of the good PvP builds have already been done. If not all the good PvP builds. PvP has a different - and higher - set of standards by which to judge things. There is only so much room at the very top of the PvP ladder. _________________ Experience is the mother of good judgement; bad judgement is the father of experience.
Edited By Xylophone on 06/21/06 17:57
You know a lot of servers have taken out Epic Dodge, right? That's one reason I made this build...A lot of servers take out Devastating Crit, and they feel that to balance it, they should take out Epic Dodge. Now, on a server where Epic Dodge is allowed...I'd reccomend my Ranger/WM/SD, or a wide assortment of Cleric DEXers, lol. HOWEVER...On servers without Epic Dodge? I'd probably go with something like this...As for the criticism...Just a pet peeve of mine, PLEASE don't post "This, and This, and This, and This" will nail your build. I know it will, and about 90% of people reading these forums will. If you're going to tell me the weaknesses of my build, which I know, offer me a way to fix them, at least...
Edited By DragonRaider69 on 06/21/06 20:04
I think there's value in pointing out the weaknesses of a build so that others who look at it can see what they are, and perhaps try to adjust it to their environment with those weaknesses in mind. That's part of the reason for posting them here: to get input on what's good and what's weak in the build, so the builder and/or others that look at it can perhaps make changes to improve it.
Pointing out the build's weaknesses is by no means an indication it's a bad build. _________________ This signature will self-destruct in 5 seconds...
