Continuing the Templar Knight theme, having looked at their past (Knight Templar build), and alleged alternative (Blood Knight (Order Baphomet)), we now proceed to examine the question as thus: once the Templars were disbanded, what happened next?
Rather than rely/quote history on this one, having set the stage me thinks already in the companion builds, I am in the midst of writing a story for this character, being that it is the last in the series of three. Before I post the story, though, thought I'd see what folks here in the community thought about this one, ....
Remember, he's the last in the series, so if there's anything you'd like He's meant to take us into the future, yet still the past, but picking up from where we've been on the prior two builds. This one's a disciplined high ranking officer, while still faith-based (hence, Pally/COT), not so much a "fanatical crusading warrior" (hence, no bard) nor a monk-warrior-turned-corrupt (hence, no monk). Instead, the "modern" medieval military officer, be it Holland, Prussia, or Britain, be it the Templar/Masonic renewal to which Queen Victoria's Uncle among other royalty is said to have belonged, or the Austria-German Order, to which other Templars hooked up, still very much comprised at the time of knights from the nobility. Hence, we bring in the FTR, yet happily incorporating some of those remaining suggestions from the first. Look forward to hearing what you think And now, without further adieu . . .
TEUTONIC KNIGHT (Order Illuminati)
Fighter(10), Paladin(20), Champion of Torm(10) Race: Human / Alignment: Lawful Good Hitpoints: 480
SPELL CASTING: Paladin(4), SR 20+1d20 Level 1: 4 Spells (Bless, Divine Favor, Protection from Alignment, Endure) Level 2: 4 Spells (Aid, Aura of Glory, Bull’s Strength, Eagle’s Splendor) Level 3: 3 Spells (Greater Magic Weapon, Prayer, Magic Circle or Dispel) Level 4: 3 Spells (Holy Sword, Death Ward, Freedom of Movement)
Other Useful Information:
• Turn Undead: extra turning & epic level Paladin/COT means that turning undead charges are plentiful and robust, clearing (HD) 26+2d6 worth of undead, and readily available also to self-buff his/her damage and AC as follows: o Divine Might, +*12 Divine Damage for *12 rounds o Divine Shield, +*12 AC for *12 rounds • Smite Evil: with extra smiting and great smite II, the Teutonic Knight can add *cha-bonus (+*12 AB) to his/her attack bonus, dealing also an additional +90 Damage. • Divine Wrath: the Teutonic Knight can use Divine Wrath, gaining +5 to AB, Damage, and Saves for *12 Rounds.
WHAT FOLLOWS is the EPIC PATH of the TEUTONIC KNIGHT (ORDER ILLUMINATI) during the first 40 levels of his/her career:
01: Fighter(1): toughness, weapon focus, Knockdown 02: Fighter(2): blind fight 03: Fighter(3): power attack 04: Paladin(1): CHA+1, (CHA=15) 05: Paladin(2): {Smite Evil} 06: Paladin(3): divine shield 07: Paladin(4) 08: Paladin(5): STR+1, (STR=16) 09: Paladin(6): divine might 10: Fighter(4): weapon specialization 11: Paladin(7) 12: Paladin(8): STR+1, extra turning, (STR=17) 13: Champion of Torm(1) 14: Paladin(9) 15: Paladin(10): extra smiting 16: Fighter(5): STR+1, (STR=18) 17: Fighter(6): improved critical 18: Paladin(11): combat casting 19: Fighter(7) 20: Fighter(8): STR+1, improved knockdown, (STR=19) 21: Champion of Torm(2): great charisma I, epic weapon focus, (CHA=16) 22: Fighter(9) 23: Fighter(10): epic weapon specialization 24: Paladin(12): CHA+1, great charisma II, (CHA=18) 25: Paladin(13) 26: Champion of Torm(3) 27: Champion of Torm(4): great charisma III, epic prowess, (CHA=19) 28: Paladin(14): CHA+1, (CHA=20) 29: Champion of Torm(5) 30: Paladin(15): great charisma IV, (CHA=21) 31: Champion of Torm(6): armor skin 32: Paladin(16): CHA+1, (CHA=22) 33: Paladin(17): great charisma V, (CHA=23) 34: Champion of Torm(7) 35: Paladin(18) 36: Paladin(19): CHA+1, great charisma VI, (CHA=25) 37: Champion of Torm(8): great smite I 38: Paladin(20) 39: Champion of Torm(9): great strength I, (STR=20) 40: Champion of Torm(10): CHA+1, great smite II, (CHA=26)
You focus more on int and get 215 skillpoints vs 129 in my build. You get one more feat from choosing more fighter. I have Cleave and Great Smite III whereas you pick Toughness, Combat Casting and Improved Knockdown. Other than that the feat selection is identical. The Strenght and Charisma split is also the same. The AB and HP are identical. More paladin lvls makes my char harder to dispel and gives a slightly better turn undead. I also get the paladin spells earlier. My char suffers from a lower str early on, but gets better cha earlier. The different class split pre epic and the different dex and con give my char slightly better saves. But you can afford to get better saves against spells from Spellcraft.
And finally - your story is better than mine. _________________ The curve is more powerful than the sword -- BG courtesan
Pretty nice.
If you didn't boost STR so much in the earlier levels, you could reach 25 CHA earlier and thus get more Great Smiting feats.
You could change your pre-epic split to something like Ftr 3/CoT 5/Pal 12 to receive better saves from CoT. Change Combat Casting to Iron Will, CC is useless. Result: +2 Ref, +3 Will, Fort remains the same. You've the potential to receive a lot more Great Smiting feats as far as I can tell from looking at the build _________________ "We keep our Feast of Feasts, sure of our bourne, Our aims self-same: The Guest of Guests, friend Zarathustra, came! The world now laughs, the grisly veil was torn, And Light and Dark were one that wedding-morn."
Hey, guys. Nice to see ya, and thanks for the compliments and comments
Mick - now I gets it, you're a Templar, too! Cool! (I think all of us who enjoy pally classes are, whatever the splits we seek, and that's just good stuff Your analysis of different class splits is appreciated and well done; I think there's a certain thing about the class that drives us all to incorporate certain things, things we just like to see in a pally, that is, if it's a high level pally) How wonderful. Obviously from the same order
In terms of skills, especially since coming here, I try to get as many of 'em as I possibly can in a build, even if it means the loss of 1 AB or 1 AC or what have you; for a power build, skills are irrelevant in my opinion, (well, almost but when designing more for PvE or to have a more versatile character, ie, something that can travel with the player to whereever they play while still having all that power-pally goodness, skills are important (or so this guild has entrenched in me -
I had a look at yours, (very nice ) and it's incredible, I agree, how so two very different class splits can achieve rather similar results - thanks for sharing; I like your undead HD, and your saves are a bit better. The spellcraft kinda evens it out, and then there's the divine wrath stuff but still, higher saves, always, always a good thing - and hey, with earlier spell access and slightly higher HD/undead, that's a story in and of itself! (pick up the crossbow folks and/or holy sword and have fun hunting zombies and/or liches on that build folks, it's a nice undead hunter! ... and a very important branch of the Templar Order (nice, Mick
Finn, appreciate your comments - between the two of you, doing some tweaking on this one, bringing the cha up first and then the strength and you're right, lets go for it and get more of those great smites, indeed. In focussing on str first with lots of ftr, what we got was a really strong pally able to essentially breeze through pre-epic, but it does make the smiting, while good, weaker than it could or should be, and yeah, have to wait for the holy avenger spell with the saves, while good, not as high as they could or should perhaps be.
Since Mick's got a nice versatile pally with the undead focus, such that that branch is covered frees this guy/gal up to focus more on 'military' -i.e., fighting the evil forces and others who would seek to deny freedom to EU/US, as was the case in medieval times, while being versatile to help Mick's build out with the undead hunting (while Mick's is versatile enough to help this one out -- we got it covered!
What do you guys think about this split:
Fighter(6), Paladin(16), Champion of Torm(18), Human
Dropping Combat Casting (it fires, but yeah, let's be honest, especially now that we're dropping pally levels, gonnna buff pre-combat, not during, and use/rely on our undead charges for the cha-boosts, not spells per se as we're not a cleric; saves are up and by taking cha first as suggested, we're able to double our smite damage - i.e., 34 + 34+ 34 + 34 + 34 = + 170 damage .
We lose some Undead HD turning ability in terms of undead hunting, down to 22+2d6 and a couple pally spells at level 3 and 4, but keep the good ones, including the holy sword! Meanwhile, our saves are up, too (beautiful ----
AC drops 2 points, as we drop AS for another GS which AC could be brought back up by dropping con & bringing dex up to 10 to start, but this would result in a loss of 40 HPs which, I dunno, not comfy with. 480 HP is nice; 440 is okay, but 480 is nice; can always find equipment, be it a magical shield or armor to bring it up no probs, easy to buy/find dex boosts too for AC - very difficult on the other hand to buy/find con boosting items for more HPs, not impossible by any means, but not so easy as compared to boosting AC, which just about every thing out there does. Plus, with a +12 cha-bonus and so many rounds of divine shield that go straight to AC, etc. (and the pally spell protection for AC boost, etc.), Anyway . . . just my thoughts. I'm thinking we keep the HPs, but as always I welcome your thoughts on that.
OK, now back to the story, he needs a nice story me thinks to tie it all together; this is just so much fun (oh, and Mick, if you like, I'll point a link in your direction, i.e., for the undead hunting branch, it's all Templar, and thanks for sharing
Fighter(6), Paladin(16), Champion of Torm(18), Human
Pretty cool. What did you do with the leveling? _________________ "We keep our Feast of Feasts, sure of our bourne, Our aims self-same: The Guest of Guests, friend Zarathustra, came! The world now laughs, the grisly veil was torn, And Light and Dark were one that wedding-morn."
here we go
Teutonic Knight (Revised)- Fighter(6), Paladin(16), Champion of Torm(18) Human, Lawful Good Hitpoints: 480
Combat: BAB: 30 AB (max, naked): 39 (melee), +60-Plus (Self-Buffs Only, No Equipment)* *Note: AB Calculation Does NOT factor in IKD, Taunt (+5/+6), Smiting Bonus (+12), etc.
Other Damage: Lay-on-Hands (Positive Energy): *12x34 = 408 Damage
Defense: AC (naked/mundane armor/shield only): 13/24 +12 Divine Might + 7 Divine Wrath -- AC 43 (Divine Buffs Only, Does Not Include Spell Buffs or Any Magical Items/Equipment)
01: Fighter(1): toughness, weapon focus, Knockdown 02: Paladin(1) 03: Paladin(2): power attack, {Smite Evil} 04: Paladin(3): CHA+1, (CHA=16) 05: Paladin(4) 06: Paladin(5): divine shield 07: Paladin(6) 08: Paladin(7): CHA+1, (CHA=17) 09: Paladin(8): divine might 10: Paladin(9) 11: Champion of Torm(1) 12: Paladin(10): CHA+1, extra turning, (CHA=18) 13: Champion of Torm(2): blind fight 14: Paladin(11) 15: Paladin(12): extra smiting 16: Paladin(13): CHA+1, (CHA=19) 17: Fighter(2): improved critical 18: Champion of Torm(3): improved knockdown 19: Fighter(3) 20: Fighter(4): CHA+1, weapon specialization, (CHA=20) 21: Champion of Torm(4): great charisma I, epic weapon focus, (CHA=21) 22: Fighter(5) 23: Fighter(6): epic weapon specialization 24: Paladin(14): CHA+1, great charisma II, (CHA=23) 25: Champion of Torm(5) 26: Champion of Torm(6): epic prowess 27: Paladin(15): great charisma III, (CHA=24) 28: Champion of Torm(7): CHA+1, (CHA=25) 29: Champion of Torm(8): great smite I 30: Champion of Torm(9): great strength I, (STR=15) 31: Champion of Torm(10): great smite II 32: Champion of Torm(11): STR+1, (STR=16) 33: Champion of Torm(12): great strength II, (STR=17) 34: Champion of Torm(13) 35: Champion of Torm(14): great smite III 36: Champion of Torm(15): STR+1, great strength III, (STR=19) 37: Champion of Torm(16) 38: Champion of Torm(17) 39: Champion of Torm(18): great strength IV, great smite IV, (STR=20) 40: Paladin(16): CHA+1, (CHA=26)
Thanks so much guys: I think we found our "teutonic knight" -- If everyone's happy with this one, .... (OK, back to the story) and await all those great comments
Thanks so much guys: I think we found our "teutonic knight" -- If everyone's happy with this one, .... (OK, back to the story) and await all those great comments
+80 Smiting damage compared to the earlier, yay! Shame about losing AS, but it's not that big a deal. The loss of a few spell slots and the slightly lower duarations is a bit biggger, but still I like this version more.
Nice job! _________________ "We keep our Feast of Feasts, sure of our bourne, Our aims self-same: The Guest of Guests, friend Zarathustra, came! The world now laughs, the grisly veil was torn, And Light and Dark were one that wedding-morn."
Thanks; yeah, this version has def. grown on me, too.
Dropping a few rounds on some stuff, and losing some spells is a pain, due to lower pally levels, but pretty much everything that's important stays the same, since the real buffs last 1 hr/level (16 hours, or per rest period), with divines lasting cha, so no change. Ah, but with that extra damage and saves - very, very cool trade off (very nice call -+80 to smite, double it all on crit-can't argue that)
Yep, I thinks we've found the one
To tie everyone over while I work on the story, here's an image of a Teutonic Knight, and you can read up on them in Bavaria/Augsburg also, or hte UNESCO site for all of their neat castles, which have or are being fully restored. It's neat stuff, but for those who just wanna see a neat picture of a teutonic knight, here ya go Click Here
as always, keep those great comments coming
(& thanks, Finn!)
Edited By TyrTemplar on 06/23/06 01:24
My first thought was also that thought about having "only" Great Smite II with a CHA of 26. Seems better to trade off some of it for strength then. You should start with a higher CHA in a great-smiting build.
As for PvP, Great Smite II is not enough. 90 extra damage won't do it unless you are lucky enough to crit on one attack and hit with both the other ones. Still it might not be enough and then you'd be in serious trouble. 10 fighter levels is also to much when your number of great smites rise, you proportionally lose Smiting damage.
That being said, your second version does 170 extra damage on a smite. That is enough, or close to enough, to make it count. Also, these builds are the ones made for Taunt. You can take a round flat-footed to use taunt to be sure your smites work. Had you a an epic feat to spare, ESF: Taunt would be nice to have. I have to mention, try to get to taunt while your Tauntee is occupied with someone else.
Nice Goings here, Deborah.
Rock on. _________________ I see the fear you have inside, you can run but never hide. I will hunt you down and tear you limb from limb.
I run the Pre-Epic Builders guild. Join and share your experience.
Thanks, Grim - yeah, this second version is definitely the one, and totally agree re: the use of taunt, and well put I just posted a fourth knight, which is more of a power build, with lots of smiting but lamentably thin on skills; there is def. something to be said about skills, and it's not just about RP but versatility for sure. (I seems to have been converted, particularly since most of my builds these days are more aimed at PvM or PvE, but always keeping PvP in mind
Appreciate your compliment, and will soon have what'll be a neat story to accompany the build, and tie the series - I'll try and make the story fit for our Master of Norse Lore of course - so, stay tuned, will repost the revised version along with it, as it's def. the one -thanks again, everyone
That's quite an exaggeration! (Though I have to admit there's a couple of paladin builds on my list here in the guild)
The closest I get to having anything to do with any temple, is that I play a Cleric of Shar, have Shar as a DM avatar and have built Shar's temple on the Anchorome PW.
Well, OK, a good Shar-inian then, Mick (thanks again for your comments, very much appreciated; but hey, our choice of feat-selections in the various pally builds we seem to have dancing around here, well, mistook ya for a "templar-type" - forgive me. got to know the enemy...
I like to build and roleplay charisma based characters. I've tried to look at synergies between sorcerer, bard, cleric, blackguard, cot and paladin. But I haven't posted more than a couple of builds. Bard/Blackguard is one of my fav's to play. _________________ The curve is more powerful than the sword -- BG courtesan
Edited By Mick Dagger on 06/23/06 15:09
Hey Mick - Shar, huh? You see, folks, I told ya in the Blood Knight that there are villain-types who've infiltrated the Templar Order; Baphomet we fully suspect, but Shar, too? Yikes: good thing I increased smiting damage on this build and the Knight Commander I tells ya
(note: so we keep the builds in context, for those not yet familiar with the four knights in the series, this one, as revised, with Grt. Smite IV and those saves etc., is PvE, PvM, but also PvP with his taunt), whereas the Knight Commander, with AB 40 (natural) & Grt.Smite V (or Grt Smite 7 is for PvP but also PvM, PvE and, thanks to Mick, he's also about to be undispellable and thus in revision - so stay tuned):)
Cha-base: for sure, they're fun! Haven't focussed on any Cleric here yet, but bards & pally's I love; the Knight Templar's Bard/Pally, (as are a couple other of my characters) and there are great synnergies for sure. Haven't done a BG/Bard, but can see some interesting possibilities in that; I'll go have a look, as it sounds like fun. (yeah, I've a thing for bard; good synnergies also on wis-classes, such as monk but bards are just so much fun
One of the really nice things though, about Pally's and CoTs/BGs, if they have high smiting power and Cha, whatever they'ree mixed with, is that AB from the cha-bonus doesn't count towards the weaponry +20 AB cap, so it's really a divine blessing (or is that dark? Either way, can't go wrong with that! And thanks so much again for the comments; but you know, Shar might be upset with you - helping out the enemy and all...
(thanks again everyone - and stay tuned for the story, to which all four knights, as revised, will be nicely tied together, with a different build for essentially everyone
Edited By TyrTemplar on 06/23/06 20:48
Alright, seein' as we've our terrific super amazin' smiters out there, including the Knight Commander, thought we'd revisit this character and specifically tweak it for PvE etc. play (as promised of course in me knight commander build
Special thanks on this one must go out to Finn, Grim, Kail, and Mick! -- note, will repost proper, but thought it a good idea to post here first, since he's now in the pulse cap. Once again, thanks so much for the praise everyone throughout the entire Templar series (nint: while I as yet might "sneak in" one more knight into that series, in the meantime, here's the Teutonic, as revised with PvE particularly in mind -- Enjoy!
Teutonic Knight (Revised, PvE plus play) (Fighter(4), Paladin(16), Champion of Torm(20) Human, Lawful Good
AC (naked/mundane armor/shield only): 13/24 +12 Divine Might -- AC 36 (Does not include Paladin Spell Buffs, or magic items: for those great pally buffs that this character has access to, and to chose your own, see below)
Spell Casting: Paladin(4), SR 16+1d20 1st Level (3 Spells) / 2nd Level (3 Spells) 3rd Level (1 Spell) / 4th Level (1 Spell) Note: at 16 levels pally, has access to some wonderful pally spells, including death magic immunity and/or that cool holy sword (dispel magic on hit); nevertheless, must point out that, being only 16 levels pally, is vulnerable to dispel (unlike the Knight Commander version, which is designed for PvP etc. as s/he’s 26 levels pally, and thus for all intents and purposes non-dispellable); the Teutonic Knight is however designed instead for PvE (or PvM), and nevertheless has good spell access. Plus, its max’d taunt and IKD (not to mention those divines and COT stuff) makes the Teutonic Knight adaptable to PvP play. Accordingly, and without further adieu, here’s that promised link to those wondrous pally spells: Click Here
Level Guide: 01: Fighter(1): toughness, weapon focus, Knockdown 02: Paladin(1) 03: Paladin(2): power attack, {Smite Evil} 04: Paladin(3): CHA+1, (CHA=16) 05: Paladin(4) 06: Paladin(5): divine shield 07: Paladin(6) 08: Paladin(7): CHA+1, (CHA=17) 09: Paladin(8): divine might 10: Paladin(9) 11: Champion of Torm(1) 12: Paladin(10): CHA+1, extra turning, (CHA=18) 13: Champion of Torm(2): blind fight 14: Paladin(11) 15: Paladin(12): extra smiting 16: Paladin(13): CHA+1, (CHA=19) 17: Fighter(2): improved critical 18: Champion of Torm(3): improved knockdown 19: Fighter(3) 20: Fighter(4): CHA+1, weapon specialization, (CHA=20) 21: Champion of Torm(4): great charisma I, epic weapon focus, (CHA=21) 22: Champion of Torm(5) 23: Champion of Torm(6): epic weapon specialization 24: Paladin(14): CHA+1, great charisma II, (CHA=23) 25: Champion of Torm(7) 26: Champion of Torm(8): epic prowess 27: Paladin(15): great charisma III, (CHA=24) 28: Champion of Torm(9): CHA+1, (CHA=25) 29: Champion of Torm(10): great smite I 30: Champion of Torm(11): great strength I, (STR=15) 31: Champion of Torm(12) 32: Champion of Torm(13): STR+1, (STR=16) 33: Champion of Torm(14): great strength II, great smite II, (STR=17) 34: Champion of Torm(15) 35: Champion of Torm(16) 36: Champion of Torm(17): STR+1, great strength III, (STR=19) 37: Champion of Torm(18): great smite III 38: Champion of Torm(19) 39: Champion of Torm(20): great smite IV 40: Paladin(16): STR+1, (STR=20)
Revision Note: dropped 2 ftr levels in exchange for Cot, as I note was originally suggested by Finn This gives us the same number of bonus feats while getting the oh so nice +2 extra divine wrath power - Enjoy!
For the PvP version, i.e., the Knight Commander in the Templar series, Click Here
Edited By TyrTemplar on 07/05/06 04:39
p.s. as to the Knight Commander, the PvP build in the series, well, okay, maybe a bit of an exaggeration in terms of so-called super smitin' power (but he does have an unbuffed AB 40 (effectively AB 47 with Bull's and GMW alone, for 26 hours (or rest period), and is non-dispellable at level 26 pally). He also gets Great Smite V (as compared to Great Smite IV on this build), which makes for a very nice balance between his combat AB/damage, and power-pally goodness,which was fully intended.
However, when and if you check out the knight commander, which includes a link posted by our very own Kail, whose improvements to the Damage Adept showed us like no body’s business how to crit smite with a scythe xs 3 (as in, his improvements, shows us nothing short of devastating crit scythe smitin’ evil power (we're talkin' 1000s, folks) - Holy Reaper (sorry, but just so darn beautiful that I couldn't help but have another look; indeed, just so inspirational that it kinda makes ya wanna drop toughness or something pre-epic to pick up that exotic weapon proficiency for a scythe instead of the other sword, especially since commander's got some nice STR
ps. CD, yer scythe concept, so totally cool and Kail, yer improvements on that; inspirational, indeed -Smite On!
He's meant to take us into the future, yet still the past, but picking up from where we've been on the prior two builds. This one's a disciplined high ranking officer, while still faith-based (hence, Pally/COT), not so much a "fanatical crusading warrior" (hence, no bard) nor a monk-warrior-turned-corrupt (hence, no monk). Instead, the "modern" medieval military officer, be it Holland, Prussia, or Britain, be it the Templar/Masonic renewal to which Queen Victoria's Uncle among other royalty is said to have belonged, or the Austria-German Order, to which other Templars hooked up, still very much comprised at the time of knights from the nobility. Hence, we bring in the FTR, yet happily incorporating some of those remaining suggestions from the first. Look forward to hearing what you think 
) and it's incredible, I agree, how so two very different class splits can achieve rather similar results - thanks for sharing; I like your undead HD, and your saves are a bit better. The spellcraft kinda evens it out, and then there's the divine wrath stuff but still, higher saves, always, always a good thing - and hey, with earlier spell access and slightly higher HD/undead, that's a story in and of itself! (pick up the crossbow folks and/or holy sword and have fun hunting zombies and/or liches on that build folks, it's a nice undead hunter! ... and a very important branch of the Templar Order (nice, Mick 
---- 
got to know the enemy...