Skills (first number is number of ranks in skill, second number is skill with ability modifier and any skill focuses, racial bonuses, etc. added):
Total Skill Points=344
Hide 43(70) 43+11 Dex+10 Epic Skill Focus+2 Stealthy+4 Short Stature=70 Move Silently 43(68) 43+11 Dex+10 Epic Skill Focus+2 Stealthy+2 Racial Affinity=68 Listen 43(44) 43+2 Racial Affinity-1 Wis=44 Search 40(42) Tumble 40(51) Use Magic Device 35(34) this allows me to use all scrolls, because on hardcore settings you must make a check of 25+spell level to be able to use the scroll Set Trap 25(38) 25+11 Dex+2 Synergy Bonus=38 Disable Trap 23(27) 23+2 Int+2 Synergy Bonus=27 Open Lock 10(21)
HP: 338(when maxed at each level) ((25*6)+(14*10)+(1*8)+40 from Con)=338
AC: 31(naked) 10+8 Tumble+11 Dex+1 Dodge+1 Short Stature=31
Fort 21 Reflex 33 Will 17 (15 if Iron Will is not taken)
Advantages: ~50% Self-Concealment ~Epic Dodge ~Whirlwind Attack ~Large Skill Set ~Uncanny Dodge and Improved Evasion ~Incredible Stealth Abilities ~Good AC ~Not Bad AB and Damage for a Dex-based character ~13d6 Sneak Attack Damage
Disadvantages: ~Mediocre HP ~Very Bad Will Save ~Low Fortitude Save ~No dual wield ~No Crippling Strike
Took the rouge away from the rogue... once more - Kail Pendragon
Edited By Kail Pendragon on 06/26/06 07:37
It's rogue, dammit, ROGUE!!!
Anyhow, why do you have Spring Attack, Expertise, WWA? _________________ "We keep our Feast of Feasts, sure of our bourne, Our aims self-same: The Guest of Guests, friend Zarathustra, came! The world now laughs, the grisly veil was torn, And Light and Dark were one that wedding-morn."
Indeed, there are a few feats you could drop (like Spring Attack and Whirlwind), but yet you put Iron Will in question marks. Question Marks???? Iron Will should be at the top of the list in a build like this. But honestly, if you are going to start with a 20 Dex, then I expect Epic Dodge to come at Level 21 and SC I to come at Lvl 27. I would make the following changes to accomadate that.
Up front, take Rogue12/SD4/Ftr4. AB remains unchanged.
Level21, SD5, Great Dex I Level22, Rogue13, Epic Dodge Level23, Rogue14 24Fighter5, Great Dex II, Dex28 25Fighter6, Epic Weapon Focus 26Fighter7 27Rogue15, Great Dex III 28Rogue16, Dex30, SC I 29Fighter8, EWS: Handaxe 30Rogue17, SC II 31Rogue18 32Rogue19, Dex31, SC III 33Rogue20, SC IV 34Rogue21 35Rogue22 36Rogue23, SC V, Dex32 37Rogue24, Crippling Strike 38Fighter9 39Fighter10, Epic Prowess, Great Dex IV 40Rogue25, Dex34
End result, Epic Dodge earlier, EWF, EWS earlier, SC feats MUCH earlier, 2 better AB, 1 better AB, you have crippling strike to deal with high DR opponents. The only thing you lack is ESFs in Stealth, and honestly, I wouldn't bother with a build with 34 Dex naturally. That's going to beat people with an ESF in Listen or Spot anyway, unless they have truesight, in which your screwed no matter what. _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
Ariel, Ookla, RIDE!
Edited By grizzled_dwarflord on 06/26/06 00:42
sorry about the mispelling AGAIN. I thought I had fixed it on the Word document, but I guess I forgot to save or something.
I know the character could be a lot better if I didn't take certain feats (Whirlwind and its pre-reqs, Epic Skill Foci), but here is why I took them:
First, for originality. Not many of the builds I looked at with this level scheme took WWA. A couple took ESF, but still not many. Since this is a pretty common build, I wanted to shake things up a bit.
Second, to stay true to my character concept. I wanted a very stealty rogue/fighter. ESF definitley makes the character stealthy. You could argue that it's not needed, but I like having the stealth so high that even lvl 40 characters have trouble detecting it.
Third, for playability. This one applies more to WWA than ESF. When I am facing hordes of characters, I hate having to kill them one by one with sneak attacks. It works, but it is kind of slow and boring. Plus, what if it is a horde of undead? WWA just gives me another choice in combat. Since I need to take 2 of the pre-reqs for it anyway, why not go the whole way?
So, I guess the real question is: should I give up the little bit of style and flare the build has to make it more "solid"? What do you guys think?
My thoughts would be: you can't sneak attack with Whirlwind (they don't work together), so you're reduced to doing a bit of damage to a bunch of enemies at a time, at the expense of all your other attacks in the round. IMO, it's far better to concentrate on one opponent and get your full attack routine against him, then move on to the next one when he's down.
So that dumps Whirlwind. With that gone, you may as well drop Spring Attack as it's only useful for avoiding AoOs when moving in combat, and your Tumble and high DEX have that taken care of.
I'd replace those feats with Blind Fight and perhaps Toughness or Great Fortitude.
Having said that, there's a lot to be said for style and your character vision, so if you like 'em, keep' em. _________________ This signature will self-destruct in 5 seconds...
I think I'll ditch Whirlwind, Expertise and Spring Attack.
To replace them, I'll add in the two weapon fighting feats...ambidexterity, two-weapon fighting and improved two-weapon fighting. I don't believe the handaxe is light for a halfling (correct me if I'm wrong), so I guess I'll have to use daggers as my main weapon instead.
I am keeping the Epic Skill Foci. I don't think Crippling Strike is worth giving them up.
I am keeping the Epic Skill Foci. I don't think Crippling Strike is worth giving them up.
Regarding the ESFs, what you have to ask yourself, is "Who would be able to spot me if I didn't have the ESFs? and, assuming they could beat my checks, would the ESFs make a difference?" That, to me, is really the meat of the matter. I think if you are doing some PvP, then those ESFs would be needed, even in a high dex build. But if you are PvM on a low-mid magic world, I would say Crippling Strike would serve you better. Because, if you have stealth maxed, and your Dex maxed, and then add dex enhancements on top of that, and then any other stealth skill enhancements, plus whatever you can add through UMD, there really isn't much that will spot you short of Cleric with ESF: Listen, but then we are talking about PvP again. And a good Cleric will cast Truesight anyway, and even AI clerics will cast Truesight.
Just to provide an anecdote, I recently fought a rather titanic struggle against an almost god-like being. He had Truesight, so stealth wasn't an option at the time, and he had terribley high DR and resisted virtually everything I threw against him. He was still succeptible to sneaks, however, and while I couldn't do much damage with my sneaks, I was still able to connect a fair amount of Crippling Strikes, which more or less insured my victory. While this dangerous cat would cast spells or buffs or turn to blast nearby villagers, every strike I landed Crippled him, 2 by 2 by 2. It made quite a difference.
So really, the question to take ESFs in a build like this should be determined by your environment, and less by any sense of style. To me, style would be getting Epic Dodge at Level 21 and SC IV by Level 33.
But you did list PvP as a possible environment, in which case I would leave ESFs(though still find a way to get CS). PvM, I would implement changes something like those I had outlined above. _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
- Kail Pendragon