Race: Elf Alignment: Neutral or Evil Starting Stats:
Str 10 Dex 17 Con 14 Wis 8 Int 16 Cha 8
Leveling:
1. Wizard 1, Two-weapon fighting 2. Wizard 2 3. Wizard 3, Weapon focus (rapier) 4. Wizard 4, Dex (18) 5. Wizard 5, Combat casting 6. Pale Master 1, Weapon finesse 7. Pale Master 2 8. Pale Master 3, Int (17) 9. Pale Master 4, Ambidexterity 10. Pale Master 5 (take 5 ranks in Tumble here to qualify for Shadowdancer) 11. Pale Master 6 12. Pale Master 7, Dodge, Int (18) 13. Pale Master 8 14. Pale Master 9 15. Pale Master 10, Mobility 16. Shadowdancer 1, Dex (19) 17. Shadowdancer 2 18. Shadowdancer 3, Improved critical (rapier) 19. Shadowdancer 4 20. Shadowdancer 5, Dex (20) 21. Shadowdancer 6, Improwed two-weapon fighting 22. Shadowdancer 7 23. Shadowdancer 8 24. Shadowdancer 9, Great Int I (19), Dex (21) 25. Pale Master 11 26. Pale Master 12 27. Pale Master 13, Great Int (20), Improved combat casting 28. Pale Master 14, Dex (22) 29. Pale Master 15 30. Pale Master 16, Great Dex (23), Epic Spell: epic mage armor 31. Pale Master 17 32. Pale Master 18, Dex (24) 33. Pale Master 19, Epic weapon focus (rapier), Epic spell: epic warding 34. Pale Master 20 35. Pale Master 21 36. Pale Master 22, Dex (25), Armorskin, Epic spell: Hellball 37. Pale Master 23 38. Pale Master 24 39. Shadowdancer 10, Epic Dodge 40. Pale Master 25, Epic spell: Dragon knight
End Stats:
Str 10 Dex 26 Con 14 Wis 8 Int 20 Cha 8
43 Concentration 43 Hide 43 Move Silently 42 Tumble 42 Spot 43 Spellcraft 38 remaining skillpoints (distribute as you like in either Listen, heal, lore, persuade...)
Equipment (non-magical): 2 rapiers, robe
Base Attack: 21
AB and DMG with non-magical rapiers; Main hand: +28/+23/+18 1-6 (Critical: 15-20 / x2) Off hand: +28/+23 1-6 (Critical: 15-20 / x2)
Saves: 21 Fort 26 Refl 21 Will
AC 42 HP 390(maximized), average about 300
Playable level 1-40 (starting as a wizard the shroundmage will be hard to play levels 1-5) Both PvM and PvP
Recommended magical equipment: 2 magical rapiers Black Robe of the Archmagi Cloack of Fortificaton Dragon Slippers Bracers of Dexterity
Some recommended spells: Time Stop, all Bigby spells, Premonition, Horrid whilting, Shadow Shield, Greater Stoneskin, Mestil's Acid Sheath, Haste, Fireball, Keen Edge, Death Armor, True Strike
Advantages: Hard to hit, stealth, good HP for a mage, critical immunity
Disadvantages: Low melee damage, not to many spellslots
Any suggestions for improvement...
Edited title to include variant version - Kail Pendragon
Edited By Kail Pendragon on 07/02/06 15:51
A high AC is always nice, but frankly it doesn't mean anything if you can't hit back, and it means even less if you can't do damage. As it stands, you have 0 damage output. Any buff that you hope to propell you through combat will expire after 5 rounds, 5 turns or 5 hours. Even Flame Weapon will be gimped for you because you only have 5 levels.
If you are relying on +12 gear, and +12 blades that do +20 Divine damage, then I suppose you're fine, but if I were you, I would drop PM way down to 16, and exchange SD for Rogue, and raise Wizard to 10 and get Extend Spell. Something like Wiz10/PM16/Rogue14. In this type of set-up, you trade some defense for some offense, but essentially keep your core defense (Crit Immune, solid AC, Epic Dodge, stealth). This also allow you to take some Rogue up front so you can raise your AB. You can go Rogue12/Wiz4/PM4 and still get a 13BAB. Not great, but the best you can hope for.
Additionally, drop the combat casting. And Improved. I don't expect a build like this to be casting in combat, unless it's Truestrike so he can hit something. I also wouldn't waste my time with spending General Epic Feats on spells like Hellball, Dragon Knight, or any of those others. Get Epic Warding and, if you must, Epic Mage Armor. Save your feats for Great Dexes as you really need to jack this guy's Dex.
Also, you need to indicate if this is playable from 1-40 and, if not, at what levels would you play it, and also include optimal playing environs (e.g., High Magic, PvP)
Edit: By taking only 4 levels of Wizard pre-epic, you allow yourself 2 wizard bonus feats that can be used for Great Int. This means you only have to spend 2 more feats to get to 20 (or 19 if you desire). This allows you to increase Dex from the start, and qualify for ED much earlier than would have been otherwise possible. _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
Ariel, Ookla, RIDE!
Edited By grizzled_dwarflord on 06/28/06 13:42
Thanks for your feedback grizzled_warlord
Yes this character is AC focused, and when I play him I often rely on using magic with stealth tactics to damage foes, espesially melee characters.
Damage is bad but not zero though Exaxt damage calculation using a rapier of the high road +1 (that isn't a very strong blade but has keen):
1-6 basic - average 3.5 +1 enchantment 1 1d6 acid average 3.5 total 7 avarage base damage multiplied by 1.45 (45%critical) the average damage will be 11.6 per succesful hit
I will raise wizard to 14 and lover PM to 16 and try it out. That will give him more magig damage output from for example bigbys crushing. I will lose some AC and HP though.
I play shadowdancer becase I like the Hide in plain sight feat in the stealth tactics I play. But sacrifice that for some sneak damage sounds reasonable
OK. So here is what I got after remaking. It will be interresting to test this dude out
Shroudmage (Rouge 13/Wizard 11/Pale Master 16)
Race: Elf Alignment: Neutral or Evil Starting Stats:
Str 10 Dex 17 Con 14 Wis 8 Int 16 Cha 8
Leveling:
1. Rogue 1, Two-weapon fighting 2. Wizard 1 3. Wizard 2, Weapon focus (rapier) 4. Wizard 3, Dex (18) 5. Wizard 4 6. Wizard 5, Weapon finesse, Extend spell 7. Rogue 2 8. Rogue 3, Dex (19) 9. Rogue 4, Ambidexterity 10. Rogue 5 11. Pale Master 1 12. Pale Master 2, Dodge, Dex (20) 13. Pale Master 3 14. Rogue 6 15. Rogue 7, Improved critical (rapier) 16. Rogue 8, Dex (21) 17. Rogue 9 18. Rogue 10, Improved two-weapon fighting (rapier), Improved evasion 19. Rogue 11 20. Rogue 12, Dex (22) 21. Pale Master 4, Great Int I (17) 22. Pale Master 5 23. Pale Master 6 24. Pale Master 7, Great Int II (18), Dex (23) 25. Wizard 6 26. Wizard 7 27. Wizard 8, Great Dex I (24) 28. Wizard 9, Dex (25) 29. Wizard 10, Great Int III (19) 30. Pale Master 8, Great Dex II (26) 31. Pale Master 9 32. Pale Master 10, Dex (27) 33. Pale Master 11, Great Dex III (28) 34. Pale Master 12 35. Pale Master 13, Epic Spell: Epic Warding 36. Pale Master 14, Dex (29), Epic weapon focus (rapier) 37. Pale Master 15 38. Wizard 11 39. Rogue 13, Defensive roll, Epic Dodge 40. Pale Master 16, Dex (30), Epic spell: Mage Armor
End Stats:
Str 10 Dex 30 Con 14 Wis 8 Int 19 Cha 8
43 Concentration 43 Hide 43 Move Silently 42 Tumble 42 Spot 43 Spellcraft 82 remaining skillpoints (distribute as you like in either Listen, heal, lore, persuade...)
Equipment (non-magical): 2 rapiers, robe
Base Attack: 22
AB and DMG with non-magical rapiers; Main hand: +31/+26/+21 1-6 (Critical: 15-20 / x2) Off hand: +31/+26 1-6 (Critical: 15-20 / x2)
Sneak Attack 7d6
Saves: 20 Fort 29 Refl 20 Will
AC 38 HP 340(maximized), average about 270
Notes: I dont think I can take only 4 wizard levels pre-epic, because I need 5 of them to start pm-leveling.
Took the 11. wizard to have one more level 9 slot. Can sacrifice this and go wis10/rog14/pm16 and have epic dodge at level 29, and still get full tumble (42).
This character will surely fit best in a high level environment with high magic.
I found that this is a variant that is simular to another build here in the guild: Shroud Mage by M4t3us
Edited By blixen71 on 06/28/06 17:03
You can take palemaster after having only 3 levels of Arcane caster class. It's a scripting error or something. So 3 levels of Bard, Sorcerer or Wizard is all you need. Rock on. _________________ Dragonlance ROH is back, better than before! and I spend a little time here WoG
In the second build drop Dodge for Extend Spell and move Wiz5 to epic and PM4 to pre-epic. One more feat, one more BAB point. Also do not dual wield rapiers, you get a further -2 penalty. I wouldn't dual wield in this build at all because your ab is simply too low. _________________ "We keep our Feast of Feasts, sure of our bourne, Our aims self-same: The Guest of Guests, friend Zarathustra, came! The world now laughs, the grisly veil was torn, And Light and Dark were one that wedding-morn."
Edited By FinneousPJ on 06/28/06 18:16
Quote: Posted 06/28/06 17:00:56 (GMT) -- blixen71
Took the 11. wizard to have one more level 9 slot. Can sacrifice this and go wis10/rog14/pm16 and have epic dodge at level 29, and still get full tumble (42)
First, do what Finneous suggests, which is just a further reiteration of what I said. Take only 4 Wiz pre-epic. Drop the ITWF and go with a finesse weapon and shield.
Also, I would advise taking 14 levels of Rogue so you can get Epic Dodge much earlier. Honestly, if you press it, you can get ED by Level 24 and there is no reason why you can't. You're an elf for cryin out loud. Then take Rogue 14 at Level 37. You don't need the 11th level of Wizard.
Also, adjust your skill points a bit. You only need a 40 Tumble, which you can get at level 37. A 42 Tumble means nothing in a naked dex build. Tumble is based in ranks of 5 for AC. Further, you will automatically make all Tumble checks against AoOs unless your Dex is reduced to 8 and you are wearing Full Plate, Tower Shield and under the effects of a Curse Song. _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
Further, you will automatically make all Tumble checks against AoOs unless your Dex is reduced to 8 and you are wearing Full Plate, Tower Shield and under the effects of a Curse Song.
Oh, but it's good to be sure, isn't it? _________________ "We keep our Feast of Feasts, sure of our bourne, Our aims self-same: The Guest of Guests, friend Zarathustra, came! The world now laughs, the grisly veil was torn, And Light and Dark were one that wedding-morn."
