This character is a power-tweak, if you will, of our by now very familiar musician who went off to knight school, to master his blade and improve his strength, to dish out some serious damage and land a devastating critical. Inspired by Sir Kail’s and Sir Grim’s recommendations on my Curse Blade (Sword) character, I thought we’d have a look and see what he would look like, if we dropped bard until the end (for a UMD and other useful skill dumps), and also a level of fighter, for even more WM. This results in a nice boost to his AB (+2) and his Devastating Critical (DC) (+1), while maintaining all of his taunt abilities, UMD/scroll access, more HPs, and even a +1 boost to his fort save. While he also has a bard song, it has not been tuned beyond its raw, innate form; then, he long gave up the song for a blade, such that his performance only delivers us a +1 AB, and +1 damage boost. On the other hand, we gain even more raw AB, and even more dev. crit power: Enjoy!(and thanks Kail and Grim, too, whose recommendations led to this character
For those who want a little more versatility, are interested in the bard theme/bard spells (albeit cantrips and level 1 spells only) yet want a bard with dev. crit, then the original build – the Curse Blade (Sword Version) is for you. For those who instead want even more bard, with access to better bard spells and a much better bard song/curse song in lieu of Dev. Crit., stay tuned: I’ve another version of the Curse Blade (Song) in the works, and will be posted soon.
For the other version, Curse Blade (Sword Version), who is slightly more balanced as between Bardic abilities and FTR/WM dev.crit power than is this one, (and to also see a nice scroll list and other useful information that is pertinent to this character), please: Click Here
Curse Blade - Fighter(11), Bard(1), Weapon Master(28) Race: Human Alignment: Neutral Good Hitpoints: 536
Spell Casting: Skilled in the use of UMD/scrolls Can be used to buff all stats (AB, damage enhancements, AC, Saves, etc,), while also providing your Blade with some rather great flexibility and versatility.
The bad thing about waiting til level 40 to take a bard level, is that you can't use UMD or scrolls until level 40. If you are just playing a straight 40 char, then no worries. If you are actually playing this character though, I would suggest dropping the fighter 11, moving Weapon Master 11 to level 21, and taking Bard 1 at level 22. You can now use scrolls, put 25 into Tumble, and points into UMD. That just made your character increasingly more playable through the low Epics up to 40. You lose nothing by doing that, except for a couple of hp. _________________ If everyone is thinking alike, then someone is failing to think.
You lose EWS also.
Cheers, Kail _________________ To hear the sound of Freedom, many gave their lives They fought for you and me Those memories will always live inside us, and now it's our time to be free
To make it more playable ground up, you could take Bard at level 17. You get a nice half-way Tumble dump for +4 AC. Pre-epic spread'd be Ftr 9/Brd 1/Wm 10. After WM 13 - when you get EWF - you can level up in Ftr and use your bonus feat for EWS. You lose a pre-epic feat but gain an epic one. Of course your final BAB will be only 29 this way, but the AB's already good on a build like this. I suggest you to end the build Ftr 10/Brd 2/Wm 28; Brd2 at 40 for a second skill dump. _________________ "With Europe liberated, the people of the world turned their attention to that old devil, the United States of America [...] We taught that monster of old the true meaning of freedom." Star Wreck
Edited By FinneousPJ on 07/08/06 12:41
Hey, guys Dark, yeah, this one's not as versatile as the Curse Blade (Sword) I agree, for the reasons you state, but still, +52 AB unbuffed and that dev crit DC factor looks pretty darn good (great ideas, once again Kail & Grim!). That'd be his schtick, a nice one, don't get me wrong, but his only schtick until bard/level 40 dump - but if all your really want is AB/DevCrit
Finn presents us with an interesting idea on that, a sorta half-way point, to permit some bard/skill dump early, while keeping EWS. While that would work, the fact we'd lose a feat pre-ep wouldn't really help in the end, as this one has none to spare (i.e., to get dev crit & WM, all but 3 of the pre-ep feats selected are prereq's - the "extras" are improved crit, WS and blind fight, which just doesn't seem to leave us a lot of room for choices or selections, unfortunately. Plus, there'd be the BAB/AB thing ... hey, wait a sec....
The Curse Blade (Sword)! He's just that, i.e., a bit more balanced, having BAB 29, AB +50 (unbuffed), and running with Bard from the get-go, with 3 bard levels tossed in altogether for earlier access to UMD and even some spells (cantrips & level 1, but still...), plus he has a slighly better bard song and ability to take curse song if you want (& when it will actually do you some good, ie., right at level 1
Meanwhile, I've another blade in the works, Song version, soon to launch, which will appeal to those wanting even more bard than is in the Curse, in lieu of dev. crit., and thus interesting other stuff. (Yep, I seems to be on another theme thing again, with a blade for everyone...how'd that happen
Seriouslly, thanks guys. Great comments, all. As always, appreciate your thoughts and comments ~ Tyr
Finn presents us with an interesting idea on that, a sorta half-way point, to permit some bard/skill dump early, while keeping EWS. While that would work, the fact we'd lose a feat pre-ep wouldn't really help in the end, as this one has none to spare (i.e., to get dev crit & WM, all but 3 of the pre-ep feats selected are prereq's - the "extras" are improved crit, WS and blind fight, which just doesn't seem to leave us a lot of room for choices or selections, unfortunately.
~ Tyr
Heh, strange things then that I count four "extra" feats. And I see......... Toughness.
I have actually built this, but without Dev crit. I didn't bother posting it though. I made it into the Trollborn Asgardian theme build instead. _________________ I see the fear you have inside, you can run but never hide. I will hunt you down and tear you limb from limb.
I run the Pre-Epic Builders guild. Join and share your experience.
Hey, Grim: you write toughness (or KD) as if you think it's actually an optional extra or something in PvP! Finn's idea is indeed a good one, and it in essence describes the Curse Blade, so how can I possibly not love it However, that having been built, we're free to focus thus on BAB/AB & DevCrit, as we do here ...
As to your theme build, it is an honor to hear, good Sir, that my knight shall stand beside your Trollborn Asgardian ~ Tyr
Edited By TyrTemplar on 07/08/06 17:45
Do you really think with your strength as high as it is, that you would miss the few extra damage points from Epic Wep Specialization? I guess it's just a matter of what you consider important. I would easily give up 4 damage points to be able to boost ac +5, able to use scrolls for buffing (as well as adding versatility), and able to use different equipment that I would not normally be able to use (again versatility). To me the 4 extra points is not worth giving up increased playability over. It also will not affect your ab or dev crit dc one bit, the 2 other things that are important to you on this build. _________________ If everyone is thinking alike, then someone is failing to think.
Actually, it depends a little on the setting. The lower the magic level the better the +4 will be. They multiply too, you know. In a low magic world it would be just as fine lowering the AB by 1 point. But it is a PG-build by Deb's own words, and playablity is dumped for lvl 40 power. The original choice will probably suffice. _________________ I see the fear you have inside, you can run but never hide. I will hunt you down and tear you limb from limb.
I run the Pre-Epic Builders guild. Join and share your experience.
The level split already says it all, this build is aimed for lvl 40 excellence. BTW, you do not boost AC by +5, you just get an earlier tumble dump. Since you are giving up EWS you might as well give up WS and get Called Shot for example, or another WF/EWF and WoC by giving up Epic Fortitude and Epic Toughness I too.
BTW, if dropping Dev Crit, I'd definitely go for 2 WoC and if I'm not mistaken you could do so and get also +2 STR by dropping Epic Fortitude, Epic Toughness I and rearranging feats around.
I understand your concern for playability by the way, I was just pointing out that you lose EWS by doing as you suggested since you didn't mention it (you just said you lose a couple of HPs).
Cheers, Kail _________________ Stand and fight, live by your heart Always one more try, I'm not afraid to die Stand and fight, say what you feel Born with a Heart of Steel!
Last I checked, 25 tumble gives you +5 ac. So, at level 22, you would have 5 more ac then if you didn't do the tumble dump. _________________ If everyone is thinking alike, then someone is failing to think.
But this build doesn't stop at 22nd lvl so saying that you get +5 AC is misleading. You get +5 AC from lvl 22nd to lvl 39 but then it evens out. You get a better playability (+5 AC in that lvl interval) at the cost of EWS and a few hitpoints nonetheless. LVL 40 optimization requires sacrifices oftentimes.
Cheers, Kail _________________ Heavy metal Or no metal at all Whimps and posers Leave the hall!
Thanks so much, Grim & Kail: yeah, DevCrit DC: 42 (48 capped), AB +52 (78 capped), fully optimized with UMD and skills, etc. - see what good things the two of you inspire?!
Dark, I know: it's just so, well, awesome (once again, thank you Grim & Kail) While I hears ya on the playability thing (a philosophy you know I generally share), we don't go that route here. To do what we do here, to fully optimize for level 40 as Kail and Grim point out, choices had to be made, and some stuff naturally suffers. On the other hand, this is a PG build, and I happily decided to go for it (and as Grim is fond of saying, if yer gonna go for it, do it proper (so, optimal damage included)
Seriously, though, you might take another look at the Curse Blade (Sword Version), which I just reposted to make him clean and clear (unlike the first post). He is more balanced, with playability (level 1-40) in mind, and has a performance that for most things should be quite sufficient. Anyway, have a look, as he seems to be better suited to what you're looking for. (thanks again, and look forward to your thoughts on him!)
To see the Curse Blade (Sword Version), please: Click Here
And as to this character, the Blade, for even more awesome damage, don't forget to get UMD/haste (extra attack for double damage), and might also consider that scythe windin' idea, for xs 5 damage on a crit, which Sir Kail just showed us all so well! Alternatively, pick up the greatsword, for its wider crit range. Whichever weapon you choose, don't forget to make good use of your taunt skills to reduce the enemy's AC (which, in turn, will give you +6 AB boost). Enjoy!
But this build doesn't stop at 22nd lvl so saying that you get +5 AC is misleading. You get +5 AC from lvl 22nd to lvl 39 but then it evens out. You get a better playability (+5 AC in that lvl interval) at the cost of EWS and a few hitpoints nonetheless. LVL 40 optimization requires sacrifices oftentimes.
Cheers, Kail
I do not see what is so misleading about saying you get +5 ac at level 22, along with being able to use scrolls, and UMD for sacrificing EWS. I believe maybe you were confused. I know what I am talking about. I never said you get +5 ac on top of the +8 ac you get from putting 40 into tumble. I do not know why you would even think that that is what I was saying. As long as I have been in this guild, you would think I would generally know what I was talking about. Since all of you mods are obviously always right, I am most assuredly wrong. I apologize to all of those that misconstrued the meaning of my words, I thought they were clear, but obviously they weren't. I also apologize for trying to help make the build more playable throughout it's career, when all you wanted was something that would be good at level 40. _________________ If everyone is thinking alike, then someone is failing to think.
I do not see what is so misleading about saying you get +5 ac at level 22, along with being able to use scrolls, and UMD for sacrificing EWS. I believe maybe you were confused. I know what I am talking about. I never said you get +5 ac on top of the +8 ac you get from putting 40 into tumble. I do not know why you would even think that that is what I was saying. As long as I have been in this guild, you would think I would generally know what I was talking about. Since all of you mods are obviously always right, I am most assuredly wrong. I apologize to all of those that misconstrued the meaning of my words, I thought they were clear, but obviously they weren't. I also apologize for trying to help make the build more playable throughout it's career, when all you wanted was something that would be good at level 40.
Wow, well someone's a bit too sensitive! Misunderstandings do happen. _________________ "With Europe liberated, the people of the world turned their attention to that old devil, the United States of America [...] We taught that monster of old the true meaning of freedom." Star Wreck
But this build doesn't stop at 22nd lvl so saying that you get +5 AC is misleading. You get +5 AC from lvl 22nd to lvl 39 but then it evens out. You get a better playability (+5 AC in that lvl interval) at the cost of EWS and a few hitpoints nonetheless. LVL 40 optimization requires sacrifices oftentimes.
Cheers, Kail
I do not see what is so misleading about saying you get +5 ac at level 22, along with being able to use scrolls, and UMD for sacrificing EWS. I believe maybe you were confused. I know what I am talking about. I never said you get +5 ac on top of the +8 ac you get from putting 40 into tumble. I do not know why you would even think that that is what I was saying. As long as I have been in this guild, you would think I would generally know what I was talking about. Since all of you mods are obviously always right, I am most assuredly wrong. I apologize to all of those that misconstrued the meaning of my words, I thought they were clear, but obviously they weren't. I also apologize for trying to help make the build more playable throughout it's career, when all you wanted was something that would be good at level 40.
Since not everybody is as experienced as you are, I will point out that your phrasing when you made the comment about getting the +5 AC and UMD use did not include any lvl interval reference, therefore less experienced builders might have been led to believe that your variant does get +5 AC on top of what already stated, which is not so when considering the final outcome. I was not accusing nor attacking you, just clearing up a potentially unclear point.
Moderators ain't always right, be assured, although they can always get the last word... one way or another
Cheers, Kail _________________ Heavy metal Or no metal at all Whimps and posers Leave the hall!
Hey, Guys. Just a note as to the playability factor on this one, so everyone’s clear on this: Unlike the Curse Blade (who’s versatile and playable from the get go, right through, and in the end, too), here's what you’ll find if you take Blade up, and play him through (adjust for environment):
Blade (playability factor): level 1-22/24, pretty much breezes through to epic, as all tank types typically do; levels 22/24 - 30/31, starts to get really interesting, levels 30/31-39: here’s where the challenges really come (but nothing potions and equipment can't get ya through, should you wanna play him right through, and which is typical for tanks in general; as of this point in his career though, please keep in mind he has his dev crit ability with some really nice AB in tact already, and which, through these levels, just starts to soar (and as a result, so, too, does his damage output);
Nevertheless, be warned . . . these levels AIN'T easy - in fact, they're quite tough; BUT WAIT...
Level 40, *bang* - all those great buffs and versatility (UMD max’d), extra AC (tumble max’d), and also taunt max’d - like a bolt of thunder it all hits and, in terms of PG power, just makes the wait all so worth while.
Thus, he’s playable, although def. not as playable (or as versatile ‘til level 40) as is the Curse, this is quite true; then again, while the Curse can aptly deal with, let’s say, over 90-% of what’s out there, Blade’s specifically designed to take you that much further (as in, PG-goodness). Let’s consider some examples: PG-dragons (some rather awesome HPs, and AC 80-plus); PG-monks (among other things, can achieve AC 84); and don’t forget those PG-Pally-BG/COT types (typically, they come with high fort); hopefully, seen from this angle, my choices on the Blade should make sense and be crystal. For this kind of play, all the power-goodies are very, very necessary; if you should give any of them up in exchange for some earl(ier) versatility (for added playability), then you’d only in the end be denying yourself the full benefit of his PG goodness.
That having been said, you *could* give him a scimitar focus, thus enabling him to use a board (for +3 AC); the scimmy, while it has a very nice crit range and a decent multiplier, be warned: it comes with less damage output than a two-hander (which damage, once again, multiplies very nicely in accordance with the crit factor).
Ah, but in the interests of compromise here (my apparent D&D personality bein' that of a pally-bard (or FTR-Bard) type and all -- a very simple option does come to mind: switch the order of Epic Prowess and Armor Skin around – such that we could get the AS boost to his AC at level 33 (instead of at level 36), with the AB boost from EP thus coming in at level 36 (instead of at level 33, as is currently the case). This might help in weathering some of that 30s storm, so to speak (and would seem to be a good compromise
Either way, and seein’ as Blade is the PG-character in my latest “Fighting Bard” series, I really appreciate everyone's praise on him, and comments, and such wonderful interest, too. Really hope he continues to give folks that "extra something" to sing about – Enjoy! ~ Tyr
Edited By TyrTemplar on 07/11/06 02:42
Quote: Posted 07/10/06 23:14:38 (GMT) -- Kail Pendragon Moderators ain't always right, be assured, although they can always get the last word... one way or another Cheers, Kail
Lol, aint that the truth
After rereading what I wrote, it appears that I came off a bit touchy there. I really did not mean to, I apologize for that. Sorry also for hijacking this thread for apology, but I felt the need to clear that up. _________________ If everyone is thinking alike, then someone is failing to think.
I have a question, if you keep calling this guy blade or sword or whatever that implies the use of a sword like weapon, why does he continue to use a greataxe? Yes I can see that an eventual x4 crit is in store for him, BUT if you use a greatsword, you'd not only have a higher minimum damage, but you wouldn't look like some generic thug. Just my opinion.
Side note, I make "generic thugs" a lot. _________________ The only true wisdom is knowing that you know nothing...
I have one concern: WHERE IS TYR!!!?
I mean we havent heard from her in a week, at least! For a whole 10 days our boards were inundated with her wisdom and now nothing!! I dont know bout you but I'm goin through Tyr withdrawl!! _________________
This post is for general information purposes only, and does not constitute a legal opinion or render any legal advice. It may not be relied on for any purpose, and gives rise to
I'm pretty sure she mentioned a holiday or a trip or whatever somewhere down the line. Perhaps it was in a PM.... She'll be back, I'm sure. _________________
Quote: Posted 03/06/06 18:56:45 (GMT) -- FinneousPJ Trollborn Asgardian by the master of the Norse legends, Grimnir himself!
Canada was her destination once more, she should be back soon though.
Cheers, Kail _________________ Stand and fight, live by your heart Always one more try, I'm not afraid to die Stand and fight, say what you feel Born with a Heart of Steel!
Its kind of funny. TyrTemplar's enthusiasm and energy is refreshing and even when she is gone for a few weeks she is sorely missed. TyrPaladin on the other hand... *shudders* Who would have thought the two Tyrs could be so different? _________________ Two wrongs don't make a right but three lefts do.
Now ask yourself, are they?
This is the internet.
Just kidding. And I'll stop going offtopic. _________________ Dragonlance ROH is back, better than before! and I spend a little time here WoG
Wow! What a wonderful reception to come home to - thanks, everyone!! And yes, I was up in da mountains, Cal-gar-yeeee (sorry, Stampede thing was goin' on during the meetings; talk about a blast from the past; you Canadians def. have some great stuff goin' on (oh, and then there's that beer - YEE-HAW!!
btw, this um...other Tyr follower, from the sounds of things, reminds me of PnP; there'd always be a player, always one, who'd argue with the DM about everything, thinking they knew best, and uh, you know, the "one" .... (ER, Tyr, such a busy g*d these days, hard to keep track of everyone, but he does
Seriously, though, Grimmer's right, gotta be careful on the Net, treat it like you would goin' to the mall or a park or something, as anyone can type just about anything from the privacy of their home (then, we're lucky today; the Net, got the delete/ignore button (either that, or maybe we can just get Av to hand out the good CDN suds
And Shaggy, howdy to you, too! As to the weapon choice on this one, nice comment. I picked the axe as a middle-ground, but greatsword's a wonderful option, too; while it doesn't have the same multiplier as the axe, it also has a better crit range. I really do like them both, and either will serve you generally well in just about any environment - but...well, OK, as you so point out, his name - bein' "the Blade" & all - does kinda connote a greatsword, doesn't it?!! (good point!
~ Tyr (that's Tyr, Deb Tyr
(& thanks, guys: missed all of you, too - so very kind of you
