This guy is a DEX-based Cleric with Epic Dodge, Self-Concealment 5 and WIS AC from Monk; ergo, he's very, very hard to hit in most settings In addition to this, he has 8d6 sneak attacks and clerical buffs to generate damage. The cleric buffs also help with his AB. However, due to the heavy attribute requirements (DEX for SC and WIS for casting), he's weak to the point of being unplayable early on. He can also dual-wield kamas at 36 AB unbuffed. The lack of skillpoints is quite saddening, too.
Pros
SC5
Epic Dodge
Good AC
Clerical buffs
UMD
10 APR
8d6 Sneak Attack
Early ED at level 24
Improved Knockdown to force sneak attacks
Manageable buffed AB
Cons
Short on feats
Short on skills
Short on attribute points
Not very playable early on
Gets his major spells very late
Poor unbuffed AB (though not overly bad for a build with only 3/4 BAB classes)
XP penalty (Halfling favours Rogue, mind!)
Playable 24-40, PvM and (mostly) PvP
Race: Elf or Halfling (for +1 AC/AB, no dual-wield Kamas)
Can drop points from CON to other attributes if you want something else, though the HP is abysmal already. Then again, you're not going to get hit often...
NOTE: if you're a Halfling, I wouldn't recommend dualwielding Kamas due to the -4 penalty. Either change weapons or drop the dual-wield feats for IC, Toughness, metamagic, whatever.
Distribution ------------ Rogue 16/Monk 9/Cleric 15
Statistics:
AB (w/ flurry) -- 25 BAB +10 Dexterity +3 Epic Weapon Focus -2 Dual-Wield -- 36 (34) +5 GMW +5 Divine Power +5 Divine Favor +2 Battletide +1 Prayer +1 Aid +1 Bless +2 Cat's Grace +2 Aura of Vitality -- 60 (58)
Attack schedule buffed and flurrying (inc. Haste): 58/58/58/58/58/55/55/52/49/46
Potential damage output per round, assuming opponent is KD'd: 336-826 without criticals (I figure ) I don't know, but most of those who oppose me tend to die in less than four rounds
AC -- 10 Base +10 Dexterity +8 Tumble +4 Wisdom +1 Monk AC -- 33 +5 Magic Vestment +4 Shield of Faith +2 Cat's Grace +2 Aura of Vitality +2 Owl's Wisdom -- 48
Suggestions welcome, especially on freeing stat points _________________ "With Europe liberated, the people of the world turned their attention to that old devil, the United States of America [...] We taught that monster of old the true meaning of freedom." Star Wreck
Edited By FinneousPJ on 07/13/06 16:45
I'd like to add that Trickery domain isn't very interesting for this build. Instead, I'd recommend Travel and War for an environment with no permahaste. If permahaste is available Strength and War sound good.
Cheers _________________ "With Europe liberated, the people of the world turned their attention to that old devil, the United States of America [...] We taught that monster of old the true meaning of freedom." Star Wreck
It may just be my imagination, but you don't appear to have defensive roll anywhere, which would exclude the use of epic dodge. Also, there is a build similar to this (i think it's called "Stabby McStab Stab"), except I don't think it had Self Concealment.
Quote: Posted 07/13/06 16:23:37 (GMT) -- Big Meph
It may just be my imagination, but you don't appear to have defensive roll anywhere, which would exclude the use of epic dodge. Also, there is a build similar to this (i think it's called "Stabby McStab Stab"), except I don't think it had Self Concealment.
Oops, I forgot to put Defensive Roll as a bonus feat on Rogue10. You can see there's no Rogue bonus feat listed there... I'll fix it now Thanks mate. _________________ "With Europe liberated, the people of the world turned their attention to that old devil, the United States of America [...] We taught that monster of old the true meaning of freedom." Star Wreck
Edited By FinneousPJ on 07/13/06 16:29
I'm sure you mean SCV or SC5 with that SV5, I'll let you edit it yourself
I guess you haven't found any cleric with SCV in the search engine because you can get the concealment out of II via trickery domain. I know, it's "mordable" even with 25+ caster lvls but you can always recast it.
Trickery is of lesser use without the need for concealment out of II, still the bonus to your roguish skill is not to be considered lightly IMO, especially since you have already so little skillpoints.
Instead of Strength I would be picking Plant or Magic domains, but I guess it's really up to taste and/or environment.
You forgot to list the XP penalty under "Cons" list also
Nothing more to add, you got what you set your mind too. Well done. I'd still stick with getting concealment out of II and go heavier on cleric. But that's just me and I always want 25+ cleric levels even when it means needing a lvl 50 or 60 build
Cheers, Kail _________________ Heavy metal Or no metal at all Whimps and posers Leave the hall!
Edited By Kail Pendragon on 07/13/06 16:31
Quote: Posted 07/13/06 16:23:37 (GMT) -- Big Meph
It may just be my imagination, but you don't appear to have defensive roll anywhere, which would exclude the use of epic dodge. Also, there is a build similar to this (i think it's called "Stabby McStab Stab"), except I don't think it had Self Concealment.
Yeah, I noticed that too. His Rogue lv10 bonus feat is ED and I believe it would have to be defensive roll which will mean only getting SC4.
I guess you could swap SD for the Rogue class, take SD to 5 and focus more on Monk or Cleric and not get as much SC, or you could use the SD class for it's bonus feats possibly for SC.
I guess you haven't found any cleric with SCV in the search engine because you can get the concealment out of II via trickery domain. I know, it's "mordable" even with 25+ caster lvls but you can always recast it.
Yeah, I figured that was the reason. There's also Invisibility Purge which kills your II.
Trickery is of lesser use without the need for concealment out of II, still the bonus to your roguish skill is not to be considered lightly IMO, especially since you have already so little skillpoints.
Good point, though he'll be able to do many rogue-ish tasks outside of combat thanks to the good DEX mod and take 20. The domain power is only once per day and doesn't last too long
Instead of Strength I would be picking Plant or Magic domains, but I guess it's really up to taste and/or environment.
Ah. Yeah, I don't usually even list domains because of that, but this time I wanted to add I don't consider Trickery too important, while it's usually everyone's first choice.
Nothing more to add, you got what you set your mind too. Well done. I'd still stick with getting concealment out of II and go heavier on cleric. But that's just me and I always want 25+ cleric levels even when it means needing a lvl 50 or 60 build
25 Cleric means you only get 15 levels to play with, that's not many Each to his own, I suppose.
Thanks for the comments! _________________ "With Europe liberated, the people of the world turned their attention to that old devil, the United States of America [...] We taught that monster of old the true meaning of freedom." Star Wreck
Quote: Posted 07/13/06 16:34:33 (GMT) -- GoVols
Yeah, I noticed that too. His Rogue lv10 bonus feat is ED and I believe it would have to be defensive roll which will mean only getting SC4.
No, ED is my general feat and Defensive Roll is the rogue bonus feat.
Quote: Posted 07/13/06 16:34:33 (GMT) -- GoVols
I guess you could swap SD for the Rogue class, take SD to 5 and focus more on Monk or Cleric and not get as much SC, or you could use the SD class for it's bonus feats possibly for SC.
SC doesn't get sneak attacks, that's a huge minus. And without bonus feats it's impossible to have SC5. On the plus side, it's a prestige class which means less XP penalty for the Elf build. _________________ "With Europe liberated, the people of the world turned their attention to that old devil, the United States of America [...] We taught that monster of old the true meaning of freedom." Star Wreck
Actually Trickery domain power is the one with the longest duration, lasting 5 turns +CHA mod. I agree it's not that long, still it's something. I've always been of the idea of having powers usable 3/day *shrugs*
Again well done and btw how did you fare in PvP at lvl 40?
Cheers, Kail _________________ Stand and fight, live by your heart Always one more try, I'm not afraid to die Stand and fight, say what you feel Born with a Heart of Steel!
Again well done and btw how did you fare in PvP at lvl 40?
Actually I haven't been able to play it there yet, I got a job nowadays. (Not recommended BTW! ) I get up at 6:25 in the morning and get home at 16:00, tired I've played this against varied AI opponents using Jasperre's AI, generic builds like STR-based RDDs, Ftr/WMs etc. I can take on up to three opponents at a time with hardly taking a stratch, but more opponents than that and you start getting hit. I'll try playing online in the weekend.
EDIT: I've also played Good vs. Evil with this guy, it's a fun mod for half an hour of hack'n'slash I always play as a "Hero" _________________ "With Europe liberated, the people of the world turned their attention to that old devil, the United States of America [...] We taught that monster of old the true meaning of freedom." Star Wreck
Edited By FinneousPJ on 07/13/06 16:53
Until you must rely on saving throws this would be a good PvP build.
That aside, if you plan to play it then Halfling would be a good choice. With good level-planning you will only have 20% xp-penalty at most and not always that even. You would only lose 1 AB when dual-wielding kama's, but gain 1 AC all the way. In my eyes it seem worth it, or at least worth considering.
Cool build, I won't even mention the pain it must at low levels since you do it yourself. _________________ Dragonlance ROH is back, better than before! and I spend a little time here WoG
Until you must rely on saving throws this would be a good PvP build.
None of them are too bad, though. Fortitude, OK -- Devastating Critical is a threat. Many servers keep Fortitude items purchaseable, however, so when you see that big fat ugly fellow with floppy red wings coming at you, just switch on those two Rings of Fortitude and a Cloak of Protection (or Fortification if available) and you're at 41 Fortitude buffed. It's not so bad. Reflex is good, Will is better than the average Rogue _________________ "With Europe liberated, the people of the world turned their attention to that old devil, the United States of America [...] We taught that monster of old the true meaning of freedom." Star Wreck
Not bad, like it, but the low cleric levels mean you'll get dispelled a lot. I'm not sure that SC5 is all that great in a cleric, since with trickery domain you can cast II. While it is Mordsable, if you are fighting an arcane caster with over 20 levels, getting your buffs dispelled is the least of your concerns compared to the bigby's hand spells and IGMS. The ability to cast harm against a high AC opponent is also not to be overlooked. For domains, I would take either war and healing or war and travel if I couldn't get permahaste items.
All things considered this is one of the better SC 5-ED builds I've seen. They tend to only be playable in high magic settings, where you can force a battle of the 20s and the extra misses give you the edge. Thanks to the cleric AC buffs, this one should do alright in mid magic settings. _________________ Two wrongs don't make a right but three lefts do.
Indeed, and it's a big con too! 40% penalty, or 20% for Halflings. Good point, I'd forgotten that when I was posting.
Only 20% for Human and 1/2 Elf as well. _________________ This signature will self-destruct in 5 seconds...
This looks like an interesting build. I might try this on my favourite Mod.
May I make a minor suggestion?
Quote: Alignment: Chaotic Neutral
How about Lawful Neutral for those Monk levels?
Edited By jvanhezewyk on 07/13/06 23:26
No offense, Finn, but when I see and Elf with an 8 Strength and 8 Intelligence, a sudden phrase leaps into my head-- "Me not strong, but me (points to noggin), me....me...me...what was question? Oh, me not strong, but me (points to noggin)...me...me, what was question...." _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
Ariel, Ookla, RIDE!
Edited By grizzled_dwarflord on 07/14/06 00:17
FInn, you have done it again! I LOVE clerics and this one is such a tease!! 15 cleric is no big deal, I have a few listed with this. I am enjoyin miths cleric/rdd so much but this one!! If only there was a way to bypass the xp penalty! WOW I am in awe. Thanks for puttin this badboy out there.
Quote: Only 20% for Human and 1/2 Elf as well.
That might have a DEX problem involved...
How complicated, dual wielding, or single kama for other feats? darn it's hard, I think it will be more playable to be Halfing to avoid 20% of that XP penalty, and forget dual wielding, if I may, I point out that your HP is dangerously low, you know well how IGMS or another strong offesnive spell (to which Improved Evasion does not cover) would destroy that HP, so taking Toughness, IC and maybe some metamagic as you pointed out...
It's a great build, cleric buffs really make it up for the low STR score.
This looks like an interesting build. I might try this on my favourite Mod.
May I make a minor suggestion?
Quote: Alignment: Chaotic Neutral
How about Lawful Neutral for those Monk levels?
Ooh, good point! Yeah, he has to be Lawful.
Quote: Posted 07/14/06 02:38:30 (GMT) -- avado
FInn, you have done it again! I LOVE clerics and this one is such a tease!! 15 cleric is no big deal, I have a few listed with this. I am enjoyin miths cleric/rdd so much but this one!! If only there was a way to bypass the xp penalty! WOW I am in awe. Thanks for puttin this badboy out there.
Thanks mate Yeah, the XP penalty is bad, especially in a slow level environment.
How complicated, dual wielding, or single kama for other feats? darn it's hard, I think it will be more playable to be Halfing to avoid 20% of that XP penalty, and forget dual wielding, if I may, I point out that your HP is dangerously low, you know well how IGMS or another strong offesnive spell (to which Improved Evasion does not cover) would destroy that HP, so taking Toughness, IC and maybe some metamagic as you pointed out...
True, but almost every melee build will get killed by a caster. What's the difference, really -- some get killed with Bigby + 2 IGMS, some require three IGMS, some might even last longer. But they all die
It's a great build, cleric buffs really make it up for the low STR score.
That's what I thought, too.
Cheers everyone! _________________ "With Europe liberated, the people of the world turned their attention to that old devil, the United States of America [...] We taught that monster of old the true meaning of freedom." Star Wreck
True, but almost every melee build will get killed by a caster. What's the difference, really -- some get killed with Bigby + 2 IGMS, some require three IGMS, some might even last longer. But they all die
You have Cleric in it to patch up wounds. I had a Cleric/DD that had enough hitpoints to let my healing take care of enough damage to survive. Not that you get out of Bigby's anytime soon, but you could with rogue levels. So getting more hitpoints might just let you make it.
As for going Halfling and drop dual-wielding. Why? If that makes his AB to low, then the elf shouldn't dual-wield either. You guys are seeing yourself blind on the -4 over the -2, remember that a halfling has +1 size-modifier, so the difference will be a devastating -1!! I understand how that would make the build useless...... it would save you a nice bunch of xp-penalty too, and get you 1 AC...... *rewind and reapeat* _________________ I see the fear you have inside, you can run but never hide. I will hunt you down and tear you limb from limb.
I run the Pre-Epic Builders guild. Join and share your experience.
As for going Halfling and drop dual-wielding. Why? If that makes his AB to low, then the elf shouldn't dual-wield either.
Because it's supposed to make it more playable, with Rogue being the favoured class and freeing feats for Toughness etc. _________________ "With Europe liberated, the people of the world turned their attention to that old devil, the United States of America [...] We taught that monster of old the true meaning of freedom." Star Wreck
No offense, Finn, but when I see and Elf with an 8 Strength and 8 Intelligence, a sudden phrase leaps into my head-- "Me not strong, but me (points to noggin), me....me...me...what was question? Oh, me not strong, but me (points to noggin)...me...me, what was question...."
Hmm, that's pretty funny actually. _________________ "With Europe liberated, the people of the world turned their attention to that old devil, the United States of America [...] We taught that monster of old the true meaning of freedom." Star Wreck
As for going Halfling and drop dual-wielding. Why? If that makes his AB to low, then the elf shouldn't dual-wield either. You guys are seeing yourself blind on the -4 over the -2, remember that a halfling has +1 size-modifier, so the difference will be a devastating -1!! I understand how that would make the build useless...... it would save you a nice bunch of xp-penalty too, and get you 1 AC...... *rewind and reapeat*
Grim, I just did the build in a tester and came up with -2 difffenece vs elf. I thought the +1 ab on halfs was for slings?? LOL can you fix the error of my pc?
As for going Halfling and drop dual-wielding. Why? If that makes his AB to low, then the elf shouldn't dual-wield either.
Because it's supposed to make it more playable, with Rogue being the favoured class and freeing feats for Toughness etc.
You misunderstand. I agree the halfling is more playable, but why drop dual-wielding if you go halfling? My point in those two posts is that it's probably worth it.
As for going Halfling and drop dual-wielding. Why? If that makes his AB to low, then the elf shouldn't dual-wield either. You guys are seeing yourself blind on the -4 over the -2, remember that a halfling has +1 size-modifier, so the difference will be a devastating -1!! I understand how that would make the build useless...... it would save you a nice bunch of xp-penalty too, and get you 1 AC...... *rewind and reapeat*
Grim, I just did the build in a tester and came up with -2 difffenece vs elf. I thought the +1 ab on halfs was for slings?? LOL can you fix the error of my pc?
Whaaat??? You been here this long and you still trust the sheet??? Land a blow and see what the numbers say, or better yet, use combat debugging. Size-modifiers don't show on the sheet for some reason. Halflings have a +1 racial-modifier to sling, so a Half-one with sling is +2 better than an elf with sling. The size-modifier to AC doesn't show either. _________________ Dragonlance ROH is back, better than before! and I spend a little time here WoG
Quote: Posted 07/14/06 17:03:58 (GMT) -- avado
Grim, I just did the build in a tester and came up with -2 difffenece vs elf. I thought the +1 ab on halfs was for slings?? LOL can you fix the error of my pc?
The halfling gets +1 AB/AC due to small size. It doesn't show on the sheet, however. _________________ "With Europe liberated, the people of the world turned their attention to that old devil, the United States of America [...] We taught that monster of old the true meaning of freedom." Star Wreck
As for going Halfling and drop dual-wielding. Why? If that makes his AB to low, then the elf shouldn't dual-wield either.
Because it's supposed to make it more playable, with Rogue being the favoured class and freeing feats for Toughness etc.
You misunderstand. I agree the halfling is more playable, but why drop dual-wielding if you go halfling? My point in those two posts is that it's probably worth it.
To free up the feats, as I said You do realize dual-wielding uses three feats? It doesn't have anything to do with being a halfling, the point is to make the build more playable early on by getting Toughness and other feats early on instead of Ambi/TWF/ITWF. This, combined with Rogue being the halfling's favoured class, should make the build easier to play in the early levels. Does that make sense?
As for going Halfling and drop dual-wielding. Why? If that makes his AB to low, then the elf shouldn't dual-wield either. You guys are seeing yourself blind on the -4 over the -2, remember that a halfling has +1 size-modifier, so the difference will be a devastating -1!! I understand how that would make the build useless...... it would save you a nice bunch of xp-penalty too, and get you 1 AC...... *rewind and reapeat*
Grim, I just did the build in a tester and came up with -2 difffenece vs elf. I thought the +1 ab on halfs was for slings?? LOL can you fix the error of my pc?
Whaaat??? You been here this long and you still trust the sheet??? Land a blow and see what the numbers say, or better yet, use combat debugging. Size-modifiers don't show on the sheet for some reason. Halflings have a +1 racial-modifier to sling, so a Half-one with sling is +2 better than an elf with sling. The size-modifier to AC doesn't show either.
Yeah, exactly. Sorry, I hadn't refreshed before posting the previous message, so I didn't see your post _________________ "With Europe liberated, the people of the world turned their attention to that old devil, the United States of America [...] We taught that monster of old the true meaning of freedom." Star Wreck
NOTE: if you're a Halfling, I wouldn't recommend dualwielding Kamas due to the -4 penalty. Either change weapons or drop the dual-wield feats for IC, Toughness, metamagic, whatever.
That aside, if you plan to play it then Halfling would be a good choice. With good level-planning you will only have 20% xp-penalty at most and not always that even. You would only lose 1 AB when dual-wielding kama's, but gain 1 AC all the way. In my eyes it seem worth it, or at least worth considering.
How complicated, dual wielding, or single kama for other feats? darn it's hard, I think it will be more playable to be Halfing to avoid 20% of that XP penalty, and forget dual wielding,
*sigh*
Every time the halfling comes up, one wants to drop dual-wield. No point doing that just because you are a halfling is what I say. I understand it is more playable perhaps without dual-wielding, but again, no need to drop those just because you are a halfling. _________________ Dragonlance ROH is back, better than before! and I spend a little time here WoG
NOTE: if you're a Halfling, I wouldn't recommend dualwielding Kamas due to the -4 penalty. Either change weapons or drop the dual-wield feats for IC, Toughness, metamagic, whatever.
That aside, if you plan to play it then Halfling would be a good choice. With good level-planning you will only have 20% xp-penalty at most and not always that even. You would only lose 1 AB when dual-wielding kama's, but gain 1 AC all the way. In my eyes it seem worth it, or at least worth considering.
How complicated, dual wielding, or single kama for other feats? darn it's hard, I think it will be more playable to be Halfing to avoid 20% of that XP penalty, and forget dual wielding,
*sigh*
Every time the halfling comes up, one wants to drop dual-wield. No point doing that just because you are a halfling is what I say. I understand it is more playable perhaps without dual-wielding, but again, no need to drop those just because you are a halfling.
Hm, I thought you were referring to the more recent discussion about making the build more playable. Yes, I did say if you're going to go with halfling, don't dual-wield kamas; -1 AB is -1 AB, and it bugs me. Say you change weapons for daggers and keep dual-wielding, you gain +1 AB compared to the elf. Anyway, none of this means one cannot dual wield kamas with a halfling, only that I wouldn't do it. _________________ "With Europe liberated, the people of the world turned their attention to that old devil, the United States of America [...] We taught that monster of old the true meaning of freedom." Star Wreck
Whaaat??? You been here this long and you still trust the sheet??? Land a blow and see what the numbers say, or better yet, use combat debugging. Size-modifiers don't show on the sheet for some reason. Halflings have a +1 racial-modifier to sling, so a Half-one with sling is +2 better than an elf with sling. The size-modifier to AC doesn't show either.
Its not that I trust the sheet, its just I hate doin the math! And I always thought the +1 was for ranged. I dont remember ever using a halfling in game (yes, the clerc/sd/wm is halfling, but I did that to throw everyone off )
It hasnt been my day, yesterday! I actually forgot what I needed to qual for selfconcealment! So, this on top of it all, well, lets just say, ill be better today!
Thanks for clearin all that up... back to the grind. _________________
This post is for general information purposes only, and does not constitute a legal opinion or render any legal advice. It may not be relied on for any purpose, and gives rise to
Easy, the size bonuses do not add to the Character Sheet because they will only work when you fight bigger oponents! the same stuff happens to huge size penalties like when you shift to dragon... if you're a Halfing and fight another Halfing the bonus simply won't exist.
I hate xp penalties, so I was tryin to figure out how to at least postpone the inevitable. I took halfling (as above) and kept cleric and monk close together.. i think i did pre with m6/c7/r7. In epic, I got ed at 27, so it is NOT an improvement, just a way to make the xp penalty easier to stomach. If my math is correct, you can postpone the penalty right up to lv 35 when you take cleric11, which is one heck of alot better than the 40%. Also, by taking more cleric lvls pre, you get access to more spells earlier which will make things easier 1-23! The tradeoff is HALFLING and you dont get ED until 27, but everything else (as far as I can tell) would be the same.
Thanks again finn for the excellent build idea _________________
I think avado answered your question like no other could...
Quote: Posted 07/15/06 06:36:14 (GMT) -- avado
Thanks again finn for the excellent build idea
No problem! You're right, though -- a halfling can avoid the penalty up until level 35 (when he'd become Rogue 15/Monk 9/Cleric 11), great! _________________ "With Europe liberated, the people of the world turned their attention to that old devil, the United States of America [...] We taught that monster of old the true meaning of freedom." Star Wreck
Easy, the size bonuses do not add to the Character Sheet because they will only work when you fight bigger oponents! the same stuff happens to huge size penalties like when you shift to dragon... if you're a Halfing and fight another Halfing the bonus simply won't exist.
Well, not exactly. They get applied every time, however if two small creatures are fighting each other their bonuses cancel each other out (attacker has +1 AB but the defender has +1 AC, null benefit). _________________ "With Europe liberated, the people of the world turned their attention to that old devil, the United States of America [...] We taught that monster of old the true meaning of freedom." Star Wreck
I got ONE more thing I want to point out: Finn, I dont want to give you a swelled head, but I tink you are wrong about playablity!! I am currently running this shorty through the mtn and hes doing VERY well at lv 8! Like I suggested above, I have changed the lvlin and took halfer so that I wouldnt take such horrible penalites (the mtn is a rough xp server). Anyway, I am finding him playable right on through, of course it could be just my high level of player experience ... but I am also thinkin it has alittle to do with the build
I think avado answered your question like no other could...
Quote: Posted 07/18/06 16:00:30 (GMT) -- avado
I got ONE more thing I want to point out: Finn, I dont want to give you a swelled head, but I tink you are wrong about playablity!! I am currently running this shorty through the mtn and hes doing VERY well at lv 8! Like I suggested above, I have changed the lvlin and took halfer so that I wouldnt take such horrible penalites (the mtn is a rough xp server). Anyway, I am finding him playable right on through, of course it could be just my high level of player experience ... but I am also thinkin it has alittle to do with the build
Cheers
Cool, I may post the Halfling version separately, then. Cheers! _________________ "With Europe liberated, the people of the world turned their attention to that old devil, the United States of America [...] We taught that monster of old the true meaning of freedom." Star Wreck
In addition to this, he has 8d6 sneak attacks and clerical buffs to generate damage. The cleric buffs also help with his AB. However, due to the heavy attribute requirements (DEX for SC and WIS for casting), he's weak to the point of being unplayable early on. He can also dual-wield kamas at 36 AB unbuffed. The lack of skillpoints is quite saddening, too.
Each to his own, I suppose.
it would save you a nice bunch of xp-penalty too, and get you 1 AC...... *rewind and reapeat*
You do realize dual-wielding uses three feats? It doesn't have anything to do with being a halfling, the point is to make the build more playable early on by getting Toughness and other feats early on instead of Ambi/TWF/ITWF. This, combined with Rogue being the halfling's favoured class, should make the build easier to play in the early levels. Does that make sense? 
)
