There are a number of builds in the guild with this class mix, but none with this particular combination, and only one that even has 20 Bard levels. This one should be a very good support character and secondary meleer, and can even be a good solo character in the right environment.

Built for PvM, playable level 1 to 40

Bard 26/RDD 4/PM 10

Human, TN, NE, CN, or CE

STR: 15 (30)
DEX: 8
CON: 14
INT: 14
WIS: 8
CHA: 16 (18)

1 )Bard1: Heavy Armor/ Blind Fight
2 )Bard2
3 )Bard3: Weapon Focus:Sickle
4 )Bard4: STR (16)
5 )Bard5
6 )Bard6: Curse Song
7 )Bard7
8 )RDD1: STR (17)
9 )RDD2: Still Spell
10)RDD3
11)RDD4
12)Bard8: Improved Critical:Sickle/ STR (22)
13)Bard9
14)Bard10
15)Bard11: Toughness
16)Bard12: STR (23)
17)Bard13
18)Bard14: Skill Focus:Perform
19)Bard15
20)Bard16: STR (24)

21)Bard17: Epic Skill Focus:Perform
22)Bard18
23)Bard19
24)Bard20: Lasting Inspiration/ STR (25)
25)PM1
26)PM2
27)Bard21: Epic Weapon Focus:Sickle
28)PM3: STR (26)
29)PM4
30)PM5: Epic Prowess
31)PM6
32)Bard22: STR (27)
33)PM7: GRT STR I (28)
34)PM8
35)PM9
36)PM10: Epic Skill Focus:Discipline/ STR (29)
37)Bard23: GRT CHA I (17)
38)Bard24
39)Bard25: Armor Skin
40)Bard26: GRT CHA II (18)/ STR (30)

BAB: +25
AB with mundane weapon: +39/+34/+29

AC in mundane plate and shield: 37

HPs: 392 (max every level)

Saves (vs spells):
Fort: 23 (32)
Refl: 20 (29)
Will: 23 (32)

Skills (273 points):
Concentration: 14 (16)
Discipline: 43 (63)
Spellcraft: 42 (44)
Perform: 43 (60)
Tumble: 40
Taunt: 43 (47)
Lore: 8
UMD: 40 (44)

Add +11 to all skills with Bard Song active.

Buffed AB and damage (Bard Song, GMW, Keen Edge, Bull's STR - assuming +4 or +5 from the spell, War Cry, Haste):

+50/+45/+40/+50 (This can be 'augmented' with Taunt by up to +6 and +6 with Curse Song penalty to opponent's AC for an effective +62 AB)

Damage: 1d6 (x3) +5 (GMW) +12 (STR) +3 (Song) = 20 + 1d6 (x3)

Buffed AC: 37 + 2 (Cat's Grace, assuming +4 or +5 from the spell) +5 (Bard Song) +4 (Mage Armor) +4 (Haste) = 52 AC in mundane gear. Add +1 from PfE if fighting evil creatures. Due to AB penalties from Curse Song (-2), this can effectively turn into 55 AC with mundane gear.

This build has a number of things going for it:
-Lasting Inspiration as early as possible without HS levels.
-Good Bard Song and Curse Song
-Cannot be dispelled other than by Mord's (or Holy Sword)
-Immunity to critical hits, sneak attack, and paralysis
-Good buffs from both Song and spells
-Extremely high UMD, so he can use almost anything
-Very good AC in mundane gear

Some drawbacks include:
-Low HPs. At 392, he isn't going to be the party damage soaker, but the immunities serve reduce many of the sources of high damage, so he should still be okay
-Mediocre saves. They're great vs spells and can be buffed with Song a bit for regular saves, but still not in the awesome range.
-Only mediocre buffed AB. Due to Taunt and Curse Song, this can be alleviated somewhat though.

Notes:

Wounding Whispers will provide reciprocal damage of 26 +1d6 sonic damage (which is rarely resisted) per strike. The spell will last for 26 rounds.

Concentration: 14 ranks may seem a waste, but buffed with level 22 Bard Song and with CON bonus, it turns into 27 ranks, which is much more effective. Couple it with a level 25 Curse Song* and you've got an effective 41 ranks to resist a Taunt. Not bad.

*The magic number is 75. This is the ranks you need to give that extra AC penalty to your enemies with Curse Song (-6 AC as opposed to -5 AC). With your Bard Song active, your Perform will be 71 ranks. All you need is Eagle's Splendor (even the lowest roll gives +1 to your Perform) and Gloves of the Minstrel (+3 Perform). It's been my experience that the Gloves are available even in low magic environments, so it should be quite easy to get the 75 ranks for the level 25 Curse Song.

Spellcraft and UMD I left at a modified 44 ranks because this build can get a natural level 22 Bard Song with no buffs at all. This adds +11 to the skill check, effectively making them both 55 ranks.

Saves are well bolstered vs spells, at +11 from Spellcraft with the Song active. Also Will and Reflex are given a further +3 bonus each and Fort gets a +2 bonus from the Song as well.

Sickle is not a sexy weapon (although for some reason I like it), so if it doesn't please you, it's easy to drop a feat and take Martial Proficiency. The only ones I'd really consider dropping are Toughness or Imp Crit, but the build already has low HPs, so that's why I went with sickle (it's the only simple weapon you can use Keen Edge on, and it's threat range is small, so Imp Crit helps, and Toughness is a must for durability).
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This signature will self-destruct in 5 seconds... Looks reasonably powerful to me. Your lament on low hit points does not sell for me, for as I see it, your Songs, Improved Invis and other Buffs essentially double your hitpoints. Throw in your Crit Immunity and high AC and I'd say he could stay in the kitchen for quite awhile.

Nothing wrong with Sickle, either. I kind of like how they look. At least it's not another scythe (*sigh*).

Overall, I would welcome you into my party... provided you brought your own beer, and some extra for me.
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Ariel, Ookla, RIDE!
Quote: Posted 07/20/06 21:40:12 (GMT) -- grizzled_dwarflord

Looks reasonably powerful to me. Your lament on low hit points does not sell for me, for as I see it, your Songs, Improved Invis and other Buffs essentially double your hitpoints. Throw in your Crit Immunity and high AC and I'd say he could stay in the kitchen for quite awhile.

Nothing wrong with Sickle, either. I kind of like how they look. At least it's not another scythe (*sigh*).

Good points, which I hadn't really considered.

Quote: Overall, I would welcome you into my party... provided you brought your own beer, and some extra for me.

I'd be honored, as I know that 1 beer given freely to the dwarflord is returned doubly in kind.
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This signature will self-destruct in 5 seconds... Oh, I forgot to add, I would be tempted to drop SF: Perform for Extend Spell. Casting Extended Warcries might be far more useful than trying to squeeze out a few more skill points and 1 more AC on your 25th level Bardsong. At least, Extend spell could be used throughout the character's career, and would give him more flexibility pre-epic so that he wouldn't feel the apprehension of clock-watching his buffs as he goes deeper into the dungeon. Extend would liberate him from that prison.
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Ariel, Ookla, RIDE!
Quote: Posted 07/20/06 21:58:45 (GMT) -- grizzled_dwarflord

Oh, I forgot to add, I would be tempted to drop SF: Perform for Extend Spell. Casting Extended Warcries might be far more useful than trying to squeeze out a few more skill points and 1 more AC on your 25th level Bardsong. At least, Extend spell could be used throughout the character's career, and would give him more flexibility pre-epic so that he wouldn't feel the apprehension of clock-watching his buffs as he goes deeper into the dungeon. Extend would liberate him from that prison.

A good suggestion, but I'd drop Imp Crit sooner than SF:Perform. The Skill focus gives you 60 Perform, good for the level 22 Bard Song, which is good to boost you close to the 75 for the level 25 Curse Song. Personal preference though. If you know you can get Perform/CHA-boosting gear to grab the level 25 Curse Song, it's a no-brainer.
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Quote: Posted 07/20/06 22:02:28 (GMT) -- Cinnabar Din

Quote: Posted 07/20/06 21:58:45 (GMT) -- grizzled_dwarflord

Oh, I forgot to add, I would be tempted to drop SF: Perform for Extend Spell. Casting Extended Warcries might be far more useful than trying to squeeze out a few more skill points and 1 more AC on your 25th level Bardsong. At least, Extend spell could be used throughout the character's career, and would give him more flexibility pre-epic so that he wouldn't feel the apprehension of clock-watching his buffs as he goes deeper into the dungeon. Extend would liberate him from that prison.

A good suggestion, but I'd drop Imp Crit sooner than SF:Perform. The Skill focus gives you 60 Perform, good for the level 22 Bard Song, which is good to boost you close to the 75 for the level 25 Curse Song. Personal preference though. If you know you can get Perform/CHA-boosting gear to grab the level 25 Curse Song, it's a no-brainer.

You stubborn old Dwarf!

It's as plain as the bulbous nose on your face, yet you still don't see it? Look here, Stocky:

You are taking SF: Perform at Level 18 so that you can have a 22nd level Bard Song at Level 32 which, you admit, will allow you to sing a 25th level Curse Song at 39th Level. Cin, this is what you are saying. And you're telling me that has more value than Extend Spell which can be used everyday like deodorant and underwear, unlike SF: Perform, which will never really come into play until Level 32, but really Level 39.

Look, Cin, it's okay. We understand your mad ambition to fulfill the ludicrous Bardsong requirements, but you can let go. Just....let go of it. It's of no consequence. You don't need it. Repeat after me: "I, Cinnabar Din, do not need to make all my Bards meet the crazy high expectations for their songs. I will still be a good person. My Bard will still have value. I have value. Beers I buy for Grizz have value. This I believe."
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Ariel, Ookla, RIDE! Actually, there's more to it than that. A level 16 Bard Song requires 30 Perform. This character, at level 20, would have 23 ranks + 3 from CHA = 26 ranks. That's 4 short of the requirement for the level 16 Song alone (which, as you know, is the sweet spot for Bard Song). If one gets Gloves of the Minstrel for +3 , then it's only a matter of Eagle's Splendor. However, without the guarantee of the gear, that +3 from SF:Perform becomes a necessity.

Looking further, the ESF:Perform will boost the ranks to 37, which is just enough for the level 17 Song at character level 21. At Bard level 18, you fall behind at 38 ranks (of 40 necessary). Bard 19 is further behind at 39 ranks out of 45, and 40 ranks of 50 needed for the level 20 Song. That 3 ranks you get from SF:Perform gives you at least the level 18 Song (with a CHA buff) through to the character levels 23 to late epic.

By the time you get your full Perform ranks, you can be buffed to get a level 25 Curse Song (if you have SF:Perform), which the AC penalty alone translates to a +1 AB over the level 24 Song. This is in effect the same as another Weapon Focus feat (effectively +1 to your AB), which I'm sure most would take if available.

My thought is, if you're taking a lot of Bard levels, you should at least try to maximize your Song. Otherwise, what's the point? May as well stop at 20 or 21 levels and invest in some other class. Personal bias, I admit.

You make a great point about Extend Spell, and I heartily agree with it, but I'd swap a different feat than SF:Perform for it.
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This signature will self-destruct in 5 seconds... Uhh, well, you still owe me a beer!
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Ariel, Ookla, RIDE! It looks good, always nice to see a bard that can attain the loft level 25 song. However, in this case I think fighter might serve you better than the RDD. 4 levels of RDD gets you +4 to strength and +1 to AC. With fighter you get +1 to AB, 3 feats, an extra attack and the martial weapons and heavy armor proficiencies. Hence you could take artist, (this would let you raise your perform to 73 with bard song and get that 75 with only cat's grace), extend spell, weapon specialization and something else (Knockdown?). Some food for thought at any rate.
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Two wrongs don't make a right but three lefts do. I like it! Nice to see ol' Cin can still whip up a good Bard
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Star Wreck Thanks guys.

Mith: yeah, I'd thought about FTR, but there were a couple reasons I didn't use it.

1) I'm working n another build with a lot of FTR and wanted to go with something different.

2) FTR's too predictable.

3) I had originally thought of using a different race for this build, and FTR would have meant an XP penalty. However, the build was unsatisfactory for a few reasons (one of which was low HPs), so I ditched it for Human and never really bothered switching classes.

Having said that, FTR is probably a much better choice due to the reasons you outlined. For anyone considering trying the build out, I'd recommend trying the switch to FTR levels and picking up Extend Spell, as Grizz pointed out. Probably a more solid character that way. I'll look into posting a revised build later.

Cheers.
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This signature will self-destruct in 5 seconds... Grizz - your comments throughout - too funny as to beer, if you haven't done so already, might I recommend the Canadian stuff - a few of those and your perform skill wil fly through the roof in no time

Oh, Cinn: another part-drake - are me wings a flappin' or what! This build looks playable, and fun. I like it. True, FTR would bring in more combat stuff, HPs and a couple more feats, but your not feat starved, with all those great spells to compensate in any event; a drake sorta with PM (some beautiful immunities all around, plus, that arm thingy and undead buddy of his) - a lot to be said for that.

As to dropping your perform, while Grizz makes a good point, I dunno. I like that you have reached the pinnacle so to speak of the bard's song. If you also pick up extend spell (that's a good suggestion, Grizz!), you've all those great bard buffs, including war cry (and mind fog to lower will saves in the first place, and then there's your song/curse etc.) - that would work very nicely, indeed.

Nice spell list and assortment of skills, immunities, nice AC, decent buffable AB, and high level curse song/bard song with all the other bard/pm tricks, hmmm. I wouldn't underestimate this one. Your HPs are just under the so-called magical line (i.e., 400), just sooo close (and normal for a high bard) - now, sing - you're there with your song After your dwarven skald, this is a very nice drake with the fabulous song and other tricks (and good to see from you - he's a high level bard, and playable: call me biased on the drake/bard thing, but, oh, just love those bard toys I likes him ~ Tyr

edit: just thought it might be useful to add a link so folks can see all the great combat buffs, and havoc, that bards can wreak - (once again, nice, Cinn Click Here

Edited By TyrTemplar on 07/21/06 19:13

*bows* My thanks for the compliments, m'lady!

As to the Canadian beer, I'm not sure the Dwarflord (even with his stout-hearted constitution) would survive a bout with our fabled brew. Best to leave that to us professionals...
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