Concept: This is a holy warrior, highly specialized in the art of liberating towns and country of evil mages, witches and warlocks. She is not a great smiter, nor is she a master of turning undead (although she does have a smite evil attack, and can handle herself when it comes to the undead); rather, her real calling in life is that of a mage slayer. The daughter of a kind and powerful king, himself a mage devoted to his people and all things good in life, was killed by his arch nemesis, an evil wizard, who had been out to enslave the world.
Our Mage Slayer managed to escape, and sought refuge at a church in the nearby country when she was but a little girl. Vowing justice, and desperate to free her people, Mage Slayer trained very hard, and learned the secret and highly specialized art of mage slaying; all the other boys and girls in the orphanage did not understand her, but the temple priests did. They sent her to a very special school, one where she learned to master her kama, and to use the gifts of prayer in pursuit of justice; pray she did, devoutly each day, and with the same purity of hope and dedication as she approached her training.
One day, after proving her worth and dedidcation, her prayers were truly answered: she had been chosen, her pupose found worthy, and granted was she the power, among other things, to bless her weapon(s); suddenly, she could turn the mundane into a holy kama of magic dispelling and power. With this, she knew the time had come, that she was ready, ready to venture out into the world and seek justice: in the name of all that was good in the world, and in the memory of her dearly, departed father, she set out to free her people. She would have justice. So long as there were evil mages out there, so long as people suffered, Mage Slayer would never rest.
Author's Note: Mage Slayer is not the first of her kind, so far as there are a few other builds which use this class combination, but the level splits are not the same. While she is seriously lacking in terms of the skills department, nor is she equipped with typical pally stuff (ie., great smiting, divine shield, divine might), she does have high, natural magic resistance, good saves/rather nice immunities across the board, and also nice, buffable combat AB, good AC, decent HPs, with the ability to deal out some nice damage (along with her holy sword); she is thus proud to join the small handful of others out there who, like this character, have presumably dedicated their lives and careers to hunting down the evil arcane vermin out there, in pursuit of justice, and free the people of such evil alchemy.
As always, comments are kindly appreciated
The MAGE SLAYER -- Overview Paladin(15), Monk(20), Champion of Torm(5) Human, Lawful Good Hitpoints: 480
SR doesn't work like that in NWN, your opponent rolls a D20 and adds their caster level and any bonuses from their spell penetration feats. It that total is less than your SR the spell will fail.
By taking monk 1st you could get an extra 6 skillpoints.
Also take epic prowess and epic weapon focus as soon as possible rather than taking the great dexterities.
It's a pretty good build. It isn't best mage slayer I've seen. It will likely lose to a level 40 sorcerer or wizard. You won't be the toughest opponent a mage faces, but you'll be far from the easiest. _________________ Two wrongs don't make a right but three lefts do.
Thanks, Mith. Yeah, she's a bit of a novelty that I had goin', but me thinks she's neat, and def. playable Interestingly enough, with monks as you know, at these levels, can take AC 70 (80s with the right blend of equipment (ie., gets the wis boost right into AC, too, not just Dex (all stack), then bring on all that great monk gear, etc. 'tis a beautiful thing Also, all those immunities of theirs, plus the pally: well ... a serious pain for em spellswords, and she can combat
As to fort, should read: monk concealment not evasion, as can't touch 'em if ya can't hits 'em (or so the theory goes - thanks, Mith (as always!).
But yer right when it comes to the epic, pure wiz' with the great DCs . . . while she has IKD to knock 'em and all, with good and highly buffable AB, problem is that, at only 15 level pally, she's dispellble. Her natural stats are nice, but still . . . at least they can't death magic her or mind-play her or anything, and she also has that wonderful speed and improved evasion thing goin' on, too. Still, to take on something of that nature, will def. want to get her even more magic resistance (should stack; I needs to check this to be sure, but I think it stacks). Also, elemental damage resistance is highly desirable, for obvious reasons. Nice to evade fire balls, but much better if while yer dodgin' yer boosted by some resistance, too
Yer bang about the skills thing: far too scarce for my liking, especially when no UMD or anything like that Me thinkin' that while this is a fun, playable build that you can pretty much takes with you anywhere, if you really wanna get at 'em top mages (and not play the roll-the-dice game so to speak, which is fine, and what many are used to, but it's dicey (pun intended ...
RECOMMENDED ALTERNATE: change starting stats as follows:
drop Dex to 16, putting 2 points into Int, and 1 point into Cha . . . bumping all up the same, except post-epic, frees up a "great dex" to take epic weapon focus earlier (as Mith suggests, and it's a good suggestion and in turn, take armor skin (thus, offset loss of the startin' dex in terms of AC, and even gain a point), or an epic skill focus. Would finish up:
You'd lose 1 AB, but gain skills (and the extra point for smite AB plus the divine wrath duration); use the skill points to maximize hide/move silently skills, pulling the other needed points from taunt.
As we discussed: epic casters skill concentrate thus can resist taunt (but not discip. hence wide open to IKD), but taunt's pretty useless against high arcane types; however, with the stealth instead, could gets in, land yer IKD, go to town, etc. Much better strategy me thinks to do that, though loss of taunt makes ya less versatile PvP/melee combat situation (but, should ya finds yerself in trouble, as in, surrounded, well, stealth w. monk speed would come in handy for ya there, too
Otherwise, as is, in a one on one (or no more than a couple at most), should do fine; definitely interesting! I don't recommend takin' on a casting pack, though, that's for sure (although, zombies and stuff like that, heck, they'd be what flurry of blows mode was made for!). But yeah, the lack of skills especially after all those bard builds, well ... Meanwhile, I've another build in the works, one more with, hmmm, thinking I'll look into uh, pally (yeah, yeah: hey, it'll be a dev critter (c'mon, you knew *that* was coming, didn't ya?
And thanks, Mith: as always, good points!
Edited By TyrTemplar on 07/26/06 15:17
Sorry to break it you, but you would probably not even fare decently vs mages, not even in PvP. Your Natural SR can't be lowered, true enough, but it can't be raised in any matter either. And 30 won't cut it by far. 1 Mestils sheath and dispel your holysword and you're pretty much toast.
A good build Tyr, just don't go challenging mages with it. _________________ Dragonlance ROH is back, better than before! and I spend a little time here WoG
Quote: Posted 07/26/06 15:42:27 (GMT) -- Grimnir77 A good build Tyr, ...
Thanks, Grim
Quote: Posted 07/26/06 15:42:27 (GMT) -- Grimnir77 ....just don't go challenging mages with it.
So, I takes it that this means that, say, that wood elf ring as an example, the one you gets in the OC as a present, granting 17% SR, that wouldn't stack with the monk's 30% to give ya 47%? Wasn't sure about that; as noted above, haven't tested it. That info, as usual, is very helpful: thanks!
OK, so there's you have it: an either/or proposition that we have here; either all out stealth if ya hopes to have a chance vs. mages (as in, if they see you coming, they'll dispel you quite easily, and it appears you'll lose that holy kama of yours (not a nice proposition; plus, stealth w. monk speed, can gets ya out fast if things aren't working out); OR, stay combat versatile, w. taunt in tact (... either way, those zombies; flurry of blows! Terribly fun to do, and to watch
Thanks, guys: as always.
Edited By TyrTemplar on 07/26/06 16:49
Can Holy Sword be dispelled by mages? I know other weapon buffs are not affected by Mord's or Dispels.
Spell Resistance doesn't stack, so you'd have to find an item with higher than 30 to get any benefit at all. That being said, it's actually quite surprising how effective even 30 SR can be, even at higher levels. It's not absolutely worthless, but it is very very limited.
All in all, an interesting concept and I like it (other than the fact you use the loathesome Monk class). _________________ This signature will self-destruct in 5 seconds...
Sorry to break it you, but you would probably not even fare decently vs mages, not even in PvP. Your Natural SR can't be lowered, true enough, but it can't be raised in any matter either. And 30 won't cut it by far. 1 Mestils sheath and dispel your holysword and you're pretty much toast.
A good build Tyr, just don't go challenging mages with it.
All good grim! I agree. I dont see this guy being effective for the design. No sr doesnt stack. All your damage comes from stripable buffs. What i see is, sneaking up (oh wait, no hide or ms!!) and getting striped nekkid. Then tryin to not die as you hit a mage protected up the wazzo from DR spells and damage shields and you hitting him 10 times FOR YOUR OWN DEATH (this is one of those times that high apr ISNT a good thing ). If you do get in with holy sword, it would be fun, but dont rely on it! I too, was of the opinion that "dispel, so what" but recent events have changed my mind on it! (and i play clerics!! )
I like the concept of the build. Its just not my thing for takin out a mage. FOr that purpose, Im thinkin you need some nice damage once you get in there.
Sorry for reiteratin your thoughts grim. Semi great minds think alike i guess _________________
You aren't reading what you write do you? you're already immune to poison, what saving throw bonus can there be against something you're already immune to?
Quote: BAB: 28, AB +44 (mundane kama), +6 Taunt, +3/4 Smiting Bonus Capped AB: +70, +6 Taunt (or, AB +76, plus Smite bonus (+5 cap)
I have no idea how you get those crazy numbers, and +3/4 smite bonus, wth is that? plus smiting doesn't counts against the cap, so why do you write (+5 cap)?
Quote: 19-24, x’s 10 Attacks/Round = 240 Damage
Of course, tell me Deborah, against what wimpy AC do you hit your 10 APR? I've never done such trick (well, actually, with an AA, but that's another story)... and have you checked the duration of Deafening Clang? very low, not much trustworthy, not to say your Divine Wrath since your base CHA is 9. Now you're saying you always do max damage on your hits too... Besides, the offhand would get only +1 damage bonus from Bull's Strength, so the calculation is a bit wrong on that aspect as well, you cannot reach 240 damage per round without critical hits.
Quote: Defense Vitals: AC 36 (naked) / 36 (Mundane Robes) With +12 Dex boost & +5 items: AC > 60
Again, no use on writing this, you definitely don't own those buffs.
My critic: You're trying to sell your build again Deb.
Anyway, on with the build: Not bad, although I can't understand how being DEX based will work against a mage... spells don't need to pierce ACs... your HP is low as to expect resistance from mages... as told before, your SR is low and practically useless, the build itself is nice, good AB and AC I think, although you'll have hard times against pretty much any DR so be careful, you don't have much damage boosters so you could get many problems there.
Mages are the one thing you cannot beat, as a mage could cast Premonition and your hits cannot breach it, your HP and SR are nothing against some IGMS (Empowered, Maximized?) because your Improved Evasion won't affect it, so you could go down pretty fast, not to say the use of Mestil's (low damage high APR against Mestil's is 100% suicide). If I'm correct, Concealment doesn't works on spells either.
I say you should go STR based, as your damage is too low, move things around to change Weapon Finesse for Improved Critical and you'll be dealing quite a lot of damage.
Even if you keep DEX based you should change Great Fortitude for Improved Critical.
You aren't reading what you write do you? you're already immune to poison, what saving throw bonus can there be against something you're already immune to?
I imagine that was an oversight, Thax. No need to rip her a new one over it.
Quote:
Quote: BAB: 28, AB +44 (mundane kama), +6 Taunt, +3/4 Smiting Bonus Capped AB: +70, +6 Taunt (or, AB +76, plus Smite bonus (+5 cap)
I have no idea how you get those crazy numbers, and +3/4 smite bonus, wth is that?
Probably has to do with this:
Quote: Available Buffs: +1 Resistance +2 Protection +1 Aid +3 Divine Wrath (3/4 Rounds with Eagle’s & Aura of Glory)
Meaning you'll get +3 or +4, depending on the roll you get with Eagle's when you cast those spells.
Quote: plus smiting doesn't counts against the cap, so why do you write (+5 cap)?
Simple: if you have your CHA capped at a +12 boost for a total CHA score of 21, that's a +5 bonus, which will be the maximum you can get from Smite with this build. _________________ This signature will self-destruct in 5 seconds...
Hey everyone, yeah, totally a concept build here; lots of neat twix and stuff, but doesn't seem to be workin' for me as good as it might against the top notch mages as currently built, eh?
Cinn: thanks so much for the compliment; & from you, in light of how we knows ya feel about monks, well.... but guys, Cinn's got a good point: 30 SR isn't nothin' to sneeze at. OK, I agree, would be nice if it'd stack with other stuff, which it apparently doesn't, but still, 30 SR, that's about as good as it gets (I've yet to come across anything that goes higher than 32-ish - so 30 is thus alright).
Avado, Thax, everyone: sure, we're to a large extent relying on our holy sword and damage buffs here; I know mages can take out buffs, that's true, and reason why I put in the recommendation for the stealth skills (i.e., can't dispel you if don't see you coming, they don't train discipline, and with IKD and the element of surprise, well, the odds look good). IF, however, they can also dispel holy sword (I wasn't aware that they could do that - makes it much more interesting, doesn't it (and in the event yer attack don't go as planned, with monk speed, if have stealth, can get the heck out). In the meantime, AB's pretty good here: true, damage unbuffed isn't anything to email home about, that's for sure, (more on that below); but if can slice through all those protections of theirs, well, fact is, mages don't have a lot of HPs dispelled, .... problem is slicing.
Thax: the numbers, not trying to sell anything here; just raw figures, just the caps, how we get there (ie., cha for smite, at 9, it's -1, but add aura and eagle's for 3/4; with +12 cha, -1 penalty (at 9), that's 5, in terms of the smite AB bonus, and the duration of her divine wrath. as to the immunities etc., cut-and-paste stuff; sorry about that.
Avado: as to Hide/MS, note: I puts that in as an option, as me thinks for mage slayin' also a necessary one; as to SR, again, 30 is pretty good; OK, maybe not the end all be all I agree, but considering that the highest uber epic stuff I've heard tell of is about 32 ...
As a concept, thanks. and i agree that damage if unbuffed is...kamas aren't exactly, well ... 1-6 x's 10, or a whole 60 damage if makes all hits and roll max! Oh-Wee! as to imp crit., would only take it me thinks to 19-20/2; unarmed stike would be a better way to go for damage, a lot more damage than a kama, but don't get the 10 attacks/round with unarmed strike (plus, for unarmed strike, we'd need to switch to str based and don't think you can cast holy sword on yer arm). Lemme take a look and see what that might look like . . .
In the meantime, seems what we got here is a nice combat monk/zombie hunter, who has has a great shot spellswords and obviously arcane casters with low-ish DCs. AS to the top notch mages, with full stealth, might have a shot - no?; maybe not super strong there, might deek out more than in so to speak if it gets too hot in the kitchen, but lots of other good stuff, and versatile. Even w. 30 SR, so long as she has stealth, I still think she'd have a shot with many mage-types (again, easily knocked, remember? OK, if not an epic mage hunger, still, she should do good in a variety of other playgrounds....
Anyway, as noted, I've another build in the works, a pally with dev.crit, not finished testing it yet, but will post soon. It may be that that turns out to be our *real* mage hunter (so, stay tuned folks As to the interest here, Wow! & thanks: will return once I have some more results
Of course, tell me Deborah, against what wimpy AC do you hit your 10 APR? I've never done such trick (well, actually, with an AA, but that's another story)...
Bad wording on her part, she obviously meant "potential damage per round 190-240". Isn't that right, Debs?
Quote: Defense Vitals: AC 36 (naked) / 36 (Mundane Robes) With +12 Dex boost & +5 items: AC > 60
Again, no use on writing this, you definitely don't own those buffs.
My critic: You're trying to sell your build again Deb.
As far as there are mundane stats somewhere, she can list stats for +12 all attributes and +20 items if she likes to. There's nothing in the rules to suggest otherwise, and as far as I'm concerned there should not be either. +5 items and +12 on an attribute is very reasonable. Besides, we've got four active moderators, why not leave the rules enforcing to us? _________________ "With Europe liberated, the people of the world turned their attention to that old devil, the United States of America [...] We taught that monster of old the true meaning of freedom." Star Wreck
Oh yeah, nice build! Definitely not a PvP mage killer, but still very nice. You like Paladins, don't you? _________________ "With Europe liberated, the people of the world turned their attention to that old devil, the United States of America [...] We taught that monster of old the true meaning of freedom." Star Wreck
Quote: Posted 07/26/06 17:43:31 (GMT) -- TyrTemplar Cinn's got a good point: 30 SR isn't nothin' to sneeze at. OK, I agree, would be nice if it'd stack with other stuff, which it apparently doesn't, but still, 30 SR, that's about as good as it gets (I've yet to come across anything that goes higher than 32-ish - so 30 is thus alright).
Sorry to break it to you again, but it is to sneeze at. Anyone with 30+ caster level will penetrate evry time. Anyone with 24+ caster levels and spell-penetration will penetrate every time. In short, every spellblade has probably at least 20 penetration power and will penetrate 50% of the time. The huge majority will penetrate it every time. So again, it's almost useless. It's only a nice bonus at best.
Quote: Posted 07/26/06 17:43:31 (GMT) -- TyrTemplar IF, however, they can also dispel holy sword (I wasn't aware that they could do that
Gotta admit I stepped on my own toes here. They probably can't dispel it. Not sure though. But you have one casting with 15 rounds duration each day. Not much.
Quote: Posted 07/26/06 17:43:31 (GMT) -- TyrTemplar Avado: as to Hide/MS, note: I puts that in as an option, as me thinks for mage slayin' also a necessary one; as to SR, again, 30 is pretty good; OK, maybe not the end all be all I agree, but considering that the highest uber epic stuff I've heard tell of is about 32 ...
That's actually WHY 30 is useless. Most people get caster levels + penetration feats >= 32 just so they can beat standard toolset SR every time.
And unarmed can't be buffed neither by GMW or Holysword. Don't. I agree to the STR path though, your AC isn't really an issue against casters (unless you get to resist Bigby's) so increase the damage on each blow instead to increase chances of failure and to minimise the number of blows that will be needed to kill.
I actually think that you should drop CoT altogether in this build. Go for 5 more Pally levels, 4 fighter and 1 pally, or even 5 more monk. I think CoT isn't doing anything good for you here, Debbie my girl. Give it a thought.
Good luck on your next Pally, looking forward to it. And they never end, do they.? _________________
Quote: Posted 03/06/06 18:56:45 (GMT) -- FinneousPJ Trollborn Asgardian by the master of the Norse legends, Grimnir himself!
I actually think that you should drop CoT altogether in this build. Go for 5 more Pally levels, 4 fighter and 1 pally, or even 5 more monk. I think CoT isn't doing anything good for you here, Debbie my girl. Give it a thought.
I smell XP penalty with Ftr, though. _________________ "With Europe liberated, the people of the world turned their attention to that old devil, the United States of America [...] We taught that monster of old the true meaning of freedom." Star Wreck
nice build _________________ They were all dead. The final gunshot was an exclamation mark to everything that had led up to this point. I released my finger from the trigger. And then it was all over. The storm seemed to lose its frenzy. The ragged clouds gave way to the stars above.
Edited By DarkInfernoo on 07/26/06 22:00
Thanks, Finn
Grim: too funny! Hey, good to know me holy sword is at least in tact (talk about confusing me over here and hey, 15 rounds, that's enough for one! (ok, gets into some real trouble if kama damage buffs all dispelled, ie., without stealth, and/or if said mage has friends on hand to help out: ... um, just look at all that *unbuffed* kama damage, er.
As to those that can't dispel her though, watch out Yah, just a fun, neat build. A nice combat monk, with lots of good things here for sure, such that even if she doesn't make the most fearsome mage killer, she's still a cool, rounded combat monk me thinks...then, if we drop COT and raise monk 5 levels, would nets ya another 5 SR though; good thinking
Let's see, lots of nice ideas here (thanks, guys); how to makes us a stronger mage slayer . . . Ftr would be nice, more damage and feats instead of COT, but would come with huge XP penalty. More monk in lieu of COT seems better route; 35 SR me thinks (an extra point per level so, 35 yes?), and while lose the COT bonus feats, would gain 1 monk bonus feat, in which you can take improved SR for another +2 points (or 37 SR total) - goin' str based would def. deal more damage, too, kama and unarmed attack both. Would drop AC and a couple AB I think though, as would lose the extra COT feats (ie., where we took EP and EWF); true, lots of great monk gloves and robes in NWN especially designed for monk, along with those sun boots, etc. But, ... this route wouldn't really let us maneuver combat melee/PvP though, as she'd suddenly become gear-dependent - hmmm, decisions, decisions .... (one or the other, I hears ya)
Thinking I'll draw up another version, def. gonna cash it all out proper, and likely keep her as is, a dex-based combat monk, able to buff and use that cool holy sword of hers (but, uh, maybe we should change her name or something, as in undead hunter or zombie slayer or . . . hmmm, hows about: combat monk of the holy order (with holy sword icluded
(thanks, everyone: really appreciate everyone's help and interest on this one (learning and brain-stormin' always so good!) I will repost. Oh, and Uncle Grim: just hang on, have I got a pally coming up for you
Edited By TyrTemplar on 07/26/06 23:20
edit: hey, Dark. Thanks for the compliment; yeah, I thinks she has some cool charms, too (thanks); gonna keep it as is, & post another variant (one with higher SR - & keepin of course that undispellable holy sword). In the meantime, we gots us a cool combat monk, with some really neat pally twix
Yep, another variant, with more damage and more SR is a coming up (lots of great ideas here; thanks again): we gonna gets us a strong mage slayer so to speak, so stay tuned folks (that, and I've a dev. crittin' pally comin' too (hey, waits a sec, I seems to be onto yet another, new series . . . how'd that happen?
Edited By TyrTemplar on 07/26/06 23:40
Quote: As far as there are mundane stats somewhere, she can list stats for +12 all attributes and +20 items if she likes to. There's nothing in the rules to suggest otherwise, and as far as I'm concerned there should not be either. +5 items and +12 on an attribute is very reasonable. Besides, we've got four active moderators, why not leave the rules enforcing to us?
I didn't noticed I was enforing any rule against selling builds or anything, anyway, I apologize. And sorry to Deb if my post was too harsh.
The build would still get much use of Improved Critical, it effectively doubles your critical change, considering 10 APR that makes it to 1 critical per round instead of 1 every 2 rounds, a critical hit is one of the ways the lower AB APRs get to work.
Edited By Thaxll'ssyllia on 07/27/06 04:03
No worries Thax. We just don't want to chase this Tyr away. This is the nice Tyr. We want to keep her! _________________ This signature will self-destruct in 5 seconds...
Hey, Thax: all is cool - I knows you're trying to help, so no worries (and thanks)
OK, reporting back on the unarmed attack: I found that it's not that bad actually, dex-based notwithstanding.
Damage on an unarmed: 1-20, x's 6 attacks/round, for a 120 damage potential(& that's naked, no buffs)
Buff's that works fine on yer arm: Divine Favor, Aid, Prayer, etc.
Buffs that DON'T Work: Deafening Clang, Holy Sword (OR Greater Magic Weapon), and bless weapon (ie., vs. undead). So, no holy arm or anything, but can cast that on the Kama, use it to dispel as you wish, then switch to unarmed if desired.
As to those AB stats (again, sleeping naked/NO buffs): +44 kama (-2 dual wield, -2 flurry mode) +41 unarmed strike +41 ranged
Now, add in taunt and the buffs - indeed, a combat monk (with a knack for, well, lots and lots of nasty stuff; maybe not the most fearsome mage slayer, but either way; as a combat monk with pally twix, should do very well in a great many situations/environments.
For those who are interested, the stunning fist/palm thing of hers, DC 32 (capped (+12 wis): DC 40, w. the wis modifier also boosting AC (must say, monk AC, just awesome As to the DC, by no means is this a power touch or anything, but as against the unfortuitous, it does work fine . . .
OK, with that in mind: if we drop i.e. great fortitude as Thax suggests for improved critical: Kama (yeah, I sees what you're saying, as would give us i.e., 10 shots a round for a crit, and some very exciting kama damage (when buffed of course Alternatively, might take weapon focus: unarmed strike, to gets +1 AB boost to our arm attack (or AB +42 naked).
That is a very nice alternative, indeed. So listen up, folks: that is some good advice (thanks Thax
Thanks so much again everyone for the wonderful interest, comments, insights, critiques, and some nice praises there, too As promised, and very soon, I'll be posting the other variant; stay tuned - gonna gets another slayer, and the really cool pally (dev. critter), too
Edited By TyrTemplar on 07/27/06 05:15
Quote: Posted 07/27/06 04:36:24 (GMT) -- Cinnabar Din
No worries Thax. We just don't want to chase this Tyr away. This is the nice Tyr. We want to keep her!
Thanks, Cinn (and really, all is good!
OOPS: Stunning Fist/Palm thing, should read: DC 32 (+12 Wis, capped: DC 38) -- sorry 'bout that
Edited By TyrTemplar on 07/27/06 05:28
In defense of the Mage Slayer as a mage slayer:
Not counting the SR it does have a few things going for it:
-Immunity to mind spells.
-Improved Evasion with a 37 reflex save vs. spells.
-Pretty good fortitude save vs. spells (34). It isn't good enough for immunity, but death magic won't work well against it.
-Holy sword. It can't be dispelled and it has, to the best of my knowledge, a flat 25% chance to dispel all buffs. It's also a +5 weapon so only epic warding will block its damage.
-Fast movement. This will help it close the distance between it and an enemy mage before it can get off too many spells.
Some stealth skills would help it, but it is immune to most of a mage's attacks. Unfortunately, it isn't immune to the Bigby spells or IGMS which are enough to kill it. If you can find a setting where those spells are nerfed, it should be able to kill mages. _________________ Two wrongs don't make a right but three lefts do.
Thanks, Mith - yeah, with the holy sword, me thinks so, too (hey, I always said a "shot")
NOTE: Did more research guys, as to some of the great questions raised here, and pleased to report as follows:
1) Holy sword is *not* dispellable (whew! )
2) Bigby's line is supposed to be a ranged touch attack and thus concealment etc. should affect it, but apparently doesn't 'cause not implemented by NWN. What does affect it is SR and *FORT* (so, with that, Mith's right: keep our fort, which means keep COT; and uh, might I also recommend getting yerself a fort cloak
3) Note: a +4 wis boost can get a second level 4 pally spell (as in, immunity to Death Magic Some stealth, as discussed as being an option, too (this way, also remove the cha -1 penalty, thus, with divine (Aura & Eagle's), more fort Otherwise, or in addition, we got Protect vs. Evil, which is quite helpful, too.
As to IGMS, that's the one to fear (our arch nemesis so to speak - then, that's true for all melee'rs). I'm not familiar with IGMS from D&D/PnP rules, & understand that it was granted to wizzard's to balance 'em against ie dev crit warriors; from reading up on it, it seems (not surprisingly) that melee'rs in general don't like the spell, complain about its affect on balance (note: PnP: wiz' didn't have that spell). Without going into the debate, or coming out on either side, IGMS is a problem for us.
On the other hand, and while I don't know for sure, it would only seem reasonable that, in environments where dev. crit. is banned, that IGMS is likely banned, too. Again, not sure, but seems reasonable to do (can ask, yes?). Otherwise, it's all up to strategy here, where and how you play it: again, while not perhaps the most fearsome of mage slayers, can't help but think it would be fun, and def. interesting; either way, though, we gots us a cool, versatile combat monk, with some nice pally twix. Wherever and however you plays him/her, should do ya good (and remember, those zombies with flurries mode, oh, it's just so darn cool! )
OK, there's me info to report (hope it helps); still, working on the other one (&, uh, the dev.crit. pally's almost ready, too Thanks again, everyone: and stay tuned ~ Tyr
…your AC isn't really an issue against casters (unless you get to resist Bigby's) …
Actually, … OK, one last note (just some more info to report about Bigby’s and target AC that I'm finding (we learnin’ lots!). Aside from SR or Fort, notwithstanding, when it comes to Bigby’s, from the official Bioware relase notes, it seems to work like this:
Quote: “Neverwinter Nights (is) based on the 3rd Edition Dungeons and Dragons rule set. … Armor Class has never represented how hard it is to score a hit. AC has always been an abstraction of how hard it is to score a hit that >inflicts damage<. Heavy armor makes it harder to inflict damage than light armor. All the variables that go into an AC calculation (DEX bonus, armor, magic effects, combat modifiers, etc.) all eventually produce a single value that represents how hard it will be for an opponent to hurt you, not hit you. That's a subtle distinction, but an important one.
… Q: What about attacks that armor wouldn't block? A: 3rd Edition has a standard rule for attacks that ignore armor. For these types of attacks, plate armor doesn't help at all!
… V: SPELLS & MAGIC Q: Do spells still work the same way? A: Yes.”
In other words, and picking up on that "distinction" point (ie., as to i.e., distinction between "hitting" and actually "hurting"), I found this:
Again, I'm no expert when it comes to high wiz/sorc (though we're sure learning lots here, and someone do please correct me if the above is wrong) - but I do know monk AC is pretty darn awesome (when brought up to cap, with Wis -and- Dex boosted, adding that great monk gear . . . (folks: seems high AC will help out here; not just about PvP/melee, but a mage slayin' shot! ... That said, yer free of couse to play it anyway you want.
Thanks, guys: really hope this helps; I'm learning a ton on this one; wonderful!) . . . anyway, gotta gets back to the other characters in this latest series, and what’s turning out to be filled with as much learning as it is just plain fun (once again, thanks!
Edited By TyrTemplar on 07/27/06 22:32
Check This Thread for a description of the Bigby's spells and how they're calculated. This was before 1.67, but I don't think they've changed. _________________ This signature will self-destruct in 5 seconds...
-Holy sword. It can't be dispelled and it has, to the best of my knowledge, a flat 25% chance to dispel all buffs. It's also a +5 weapon so only epic warding will block its damage.
K, i apologize! I am GLAD to hear that holy sword cannot be dispelled! this is really really really really really good news (if i were plannin a lv 15 pally which i am not )
Thanks for that info, Cinn: and wow. Talk about answering the call
And so, a final recap: we got AC in our favor, great immunities and monk reflexes, monk speed, good combat AB and other stuff, including that undispellable holy sword (with a flat 25% of fully dispelling a mage, x's up to 10 shots at doing so, followed by a bunch of kama shots (for good damage, when buffed), or, if you prefer, a nice unarmed strike x's 6 shots for some decent damage.
Conversely, strength is not in our favor here, so unless there's a fort save, we’re vulnerable to some of those Bigby’s, but not all (depending of course on the roll). Then, if we go the stealth option, can sneak up and use IKD (with good, buffable AB), which gives us (dare I say it, a shot). IGMS is also a problem, and one we'd like to avoid if possible; then, if we go for sneak & knock, slingers can’t fire off. Strategy folks. Also, they can't fire much off even without stealth, since (as Mith notes) we come at ‘em quickly and are immune to a lot of what they do anyway. And so, pvm casters don't really have a chance; in pvp, (once again) we've a shot...
Quote: Posted 07/25/06 13:33:22 (GMT) -- Grimnir77 IKD … good vs caster types …
Avado: nice to see ya. If we were *just* a 15th level pally, it might be a different story, but we’re not: we’re a 20th monk, with a lot of good stuff goin’ for us here, and not just for PvP/melee; we have as above, *plus* our holy sword (not to mention protection vs. evil, and other neat twix), as a result of having 15 pally too: puts it together, and ...
OK: Don't like the odds? Hey, no troubles. If ya don’t hunger for the PvP mages, there's lots & lots of other nasty stuff out there to battle, other wrongs to right, for which justice needs to be sought. We got us a cool, solid combat monk, with a lot of neat twix, and thus can plays it anyways you wants: really, it's okay (enjoy! )
Once again, thanks out to everyone. What fun, exciting interest, great learnin', and so forth all around on this one - wonderful! I hope you enjoy Mage Slayer, whatever may be your passion, and take this holy warrior/combat monk out to right wrongs, whereever and however you finds 'em ~ Tyr
Interestingly enough, with monks as you know, at these levels, can take AC 70 (80s with the right blend of equipment (ie., gets the wis boost right into AC, too, not just Dex (all stack), then bring on all that great monk gear, etc. 'tis a beautiful thing 
Me thinkin' that while this is a fun, playable build that you can pretty much takes with you anywhere, if you really wanna get at 'em top mages (and not play the roll-the-dice game so to speak, which is fine, and what many are used to, but it's dicey (pun intended 
(yeah, yeah: hey, it'll be a dev critter (c'mon, you knew *that* was coming, didn't ya? 
). If you do get in with holy sword, it would be fun, but dont rely on it! I too, was of the opinion that "dispel, so what" but recent events have changed my mind on it! (and i play clerics!! ) 
which i am not