There are a few of this class combination in the Guild, but only one that takes enough levels of CLC to be in the undispellable level range. That build, by drumnbassjunkie takes only 7 WM levels, more FTR, and uses a scythe. This build takes advantage of the Club exploit and is only the second one that I know of to do so in the Guild. The other is an Assassin build of Finn's, but I feel Cleric is probably best suited to take advantage of this exploit since the club is a mediocre weapon at best, but the Cleric's buffs can make it quite effective. This build is based on one I drew up a long time back solely for the purpose of exploiting the Club. Of course, I've tweaked it and changed things from the original incarnation.
Not much to say about it. Only the bare minimum WIS to get all his spells, so he's not going to be very good at offensive spells, but that's not his game anyway. Good unbuffed AB for a CLC heavy build, and he has all the usual Cleric buffs to make himself a good melee combatant. Enough levels to avoid being dispelled is a big bonus (although Mord's will ruin his day like anyone else's). HPs are mediocre, but he can self-buff them close to 500 with a good roll. _________________ This signature will self-destruct in 5 seconds...
Edited By Cinnabar Din on 07/28/06 06:10
I know Kail posted a build with a single fighter level and EWS club.
That aside, the only thing worse than taking 7 WM is taking 13. 6 levels spent on 1 AB and 1 Feat, when more fighter would give you more than that. The only time it's worth 13 is if you need another Favored Weapon.. Care to elaborate why you chose so? Other than that it's a good build Cinn, but it doesn't seem to need to exploit Club and can take a better weapon. _________________ I see the fear you have inside, you can run but never hide. I will hunt you down and tear you limb from limb.
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I know Kail posted a build with a single fighter level and EWS club.
Ah, I didn't manage to find it in my searches.
Quote: That aside, the only thing worse than taking 7 WM is taking 13. 6 levels spent on 1 AB and 1 Feat, when more fighter would give you more than that. The only time it's worth 13 is if you need another Favored Weapon.. Care to elaborate why you chose so? Other than that it's a good build Cinn, but it doesn't seem to need to exploit Club and can take a better weapon.
The whole point was to exploit the Club. Taking more FTR levels really wouldn't make sense for this, as you'd be better off going with a different weapon, since you could afford to take the WS, WF, EWF and EWS feats as FTR bonus feats. The 13 WM levels were to get the bonus feat for Epic Prowess. I could have taken 6 more CLC instead, which would net me another WIS and another CLC bonus feat, but Epic Prowess isn't on the CLC's bonus list, so I'd suffer a net loss of 2 AB that way. More WM levels would mean I'd have to cannibalize CLC and put the build below the non-dispellable threshold.
Believe me, I thought of more FTR, but like I say doing that would really make you want to go with a different weapon. This is the reason is sat in my build stable for so long, as really there's no good justification for using the Club exploit in almost all builds for various reasons (depending on the build). It's basically a gimmick build (as the name indicates), but it's quite playable as it is.
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It would be even better if you left the wm lvls to epic! That would leave you with <16 bab and the divine exploits too. hmmm (the wheels are turning..
Why not change this to: STR: 15 DEX: 14 CON: 12 INT: 14 WIS: 14 CHA: 8
Go cleric 20 pre-epic and drop the improved critical (club), that would give you an extra bonus feat in epic levels to grap another great strength, another 43 skill points and the ability to exploit divine power for another attack. You would lose 2 to your reflex save and gain 2 to your will save, lose the benefits of improved critical and two from your AB but it might be worth it.
Quote: BAB: +26 AB with mundane weapon: +40/+35/+30/+25
You miscalculated here, your BAB is 27 and your AB is 41/36/31/26. _________________ Two wrongs don't make a right but three lefts do.
Thanks Mith. Not sure, but do you mean drop Imp Crit altogether or just delay it as the epic bonus feat when you shift the FTR level there? (just asking, as you have to take it to qualify for EWF:Club). Good suggestion though.
*edit* You know, Mith, that 20 levels of CLC pre-epic also has another benefit: you're constantly increasing your spellcasting power at lower levels where it's really needed. Good call.
Another thing occurs to me as well. If one would go with CLC 26/FTR 1/WM 13, and take that FTR level in epic for the WS/EWS feats, you'd gain another CLC bonus feat, which could be used to round the WIS up to 20. Of course, it means you lose a pre-epic feat though. Unfortunately, that would have to be Blind Fight. _________________ This signature will self-destruct in 5 seconds...
Edited By Cinnabar Din on 07/28/06 06:08
Quote: Posted 07/28/06 06:01:33 (GMT) -- Cinnabar Din
Thanks Mith. Not sure, but do you mean drop Imp Crit altogether or just delay it as the epic bonus feat when you shift the FTR level there? (just asking, as you have to take it to qualify for EWF:Club). Good suggestion though.
Damn, I forgot how f-ed up the club was. Yeah I suppose you would have to drop blind-fight if you shifted the fighter level epic.
Quote: *edit* You know, Mith, that 20 levels of CLC pre-epic also has another benefit: you're constantly increasing your spellcasting power at lower levels where it's really needed. Good call.
It is nice to have to have extra spell casting power at those low levels. Particularly before saving throws catch up to the spell DCs.
Fixed broken quote - Kail Pendragon _________________ Two wrongs don't make a right but three lefts do.
Edited By Kail Pendragon on 07/28/06 11:47
I agree with Grim that WM 13 is not that wise a choice and I see your point about not wanting to cannibalize Cleric or go with more Fighter since it's a club exploit build. What about going heavier on Cleric though? Something like Cleric 32/WM 7/FTR 1 could go although I foresee some problems allocating stats/feats for overall playability (damned be the restricted feat selection of the Cleric).
My build exploiting the club bug is the Holy Nuker (Cleric 32/FTR 2/CoT 6) it's WIS based and it was a spin off from my Holy Imploder build (Cleric 26/FTR 4/CoT 10).
EDIT: I looked into it and Cleric 32/WM 7/FTR 1, turns out ok. All cleric preepic, AB 37 (capped AB 63), AC 28, final STR 26, WIS 22 (could be final STR 28, WIS 20, AB 38 if you accept to delay access to lvl 8-9 spells) just enough skillpoints to max out discipline, spellcraft, tumble and concentration. No BF nor KD nor EP, just one metamagic, WS/EWS at 24th lvl. Higher caster lvl for longer buffs, higher SR (44), higher mord resistance and auto penetration of maximum toolset SR, 1 more 2nd lvl spell and 1 more 6th lvl one. Cleric 31/WM 7/FTR 2 is also possible but looks trickier with feats/stats allocation.
Cheers, Kail _________________ Looking for a realm of adventure? Check out World of Greyhawk, you won't regret it.
Edited By Kail Pendragon on 07/28/06 13:44
Nice, Cinn (as usual). A combat cleric, oh, how cool. You're natural stats are somewhat of a little warrior here, totally buffable and yet, at the same time, w. 25 cleric, you've good casting power. I sees why you didn't go for the extra cleric level (i.e., for non-dispel) for WM boost; no matter, 25 cleric's oh so close, almost non-dispellable, & def. tough to slice through, while able to hit back with the club of yours, too: I likes it!
Kail: Nice to see ya, and that sounds like a very good suggestion; true, would drop some natural AB, but, at 32 cleric, would be non-dispellable and can gets AB back with nice buffs which, at over 26 cleric, non-dispel and thus for all intents and purposes quite secure: Great thinkin' (as usual
Either way, Cinn: a nice combat cleric, & me likes it
Edited By TyrTemplar on 07/28/06 19:23
25 Cleric is actually non-dispellable. _________________ "With Europe liberated, the people of the world turned their attention to that old devil, the United States of America [...] We taught that monster of old the true meaning of freedom." Star Wreck
Thanks for the inout everyone. Kail, yeah, there's probably a better way to go about it, and your suggestion is (as usual) top-notch, but I just hate to be another of those 'stop at 7 WM level' builds. Besides, it's not like there's no benefits from taking 13 WM... *shrug*
Tyr, as Finn pointed out, 25 CLC is undispellable:
GRTR Dispel = 1d20 + 15 for maximum 35 roll vs 11 + caster level (in this case 25 CLC) for 36. 35 < 36, so he can't be dispelled. _________________ It's rogue, dammit, ROGUE!!!
Thanks, Finn: really? for cleric it's only 25, and not 26? That's really good to know, and cool! And makes the Cudgel even better then (Cinn: once again, and either way you go on this, well done)
Thanks, Finn: really? for cleric it's only 25, and not 26? That's really good to know, and cool! And makes the Cudgel even better then (Cinn: once again, and either way you go on this, well done)
Not just Cleric, but any caster. Once you hit 25 casting levels, you're undispellable (see formula in my previous post).
Cheers. _________________ It's rogue, dammit, ROGUE!!!
True, but there's still Mords
Well, not taking Fighter levels just because that would break the exploit is a conceptual decision, more Fighter instead of WM would probably be the best though.
Yeah, there's always Mords though, so you have to draw the line somewhere.
Quote: Well, not taking Fighter levels just because that would break the exploit is a conceptual decision, more Fighter instead of WM would probably be the best though
Absolutely. But, since the whole point is to exploit the club...
Quote: Posted 07/28/06 19:27:46 (GMT) -- Cinnabar Din
Thanks for the inout everyone. Kail, yeah, there's probably a better way to go about it, and your suggestion is (as usual) top-notch, but I just hate to be another of those 'stop at 7 WM level' builds. Besides, it's not like there's no benefits from taking 13 WM... *shrug* ...
Yeah, I understand what you mean; I'm no big fan of WM 7 either, the feat investment is really heavy. I'm a big fan of a lot of cleric levels though
Also, I don't mean WM 13 has no benefits cause that ain't true. WM 13 after all grants a handful more hit points, +1 AB, 1 Epic feat and 6 more ki strikes a day. It's just that I like to get many WM lvls and personally I prefer to go with minimum 19 lvls to make that initial investment really worthwhile.
Nice build, btw. We should band together (me, Finn and you) and found the club exploiters... club Anybody can join us, just submit your club exploiting build BTW, I seem to remember that the finnish god of death is some Tuoni which favoured weapon should be the club...
Cheers, Kail _________________ Heavy metal Or no metal at all Whimps and posers Leave the hall!
Just curious, whats this club exploit that this char has been built around actually is?
Just curious, whats this club exploit that this char has been built around actually is?
It's the possibility to take WS/EWS: club with just 1 FTR lvl instead of the 4 lvls required to specialize in all other weapons. To get WS(EWS) club you just need 4 BAB, leveling on a fighter lvl, having IC: Club and WF(EWF): club. IIRC EWF: Club also requires IC: Club,btw.
Cheers, Kail _________________ Looking for a realm of adventure? Check out World of Greyhawk, you won't regret it.
