Slashing, Casting, Healing and Harming his way through PvM (1-40), or PvP

The BATTLE MAGISTRATE (Champion of Tyr)
By Deborah Tyr

It had been centuries since Tyr, the god of war, had led his force of over 200 archons across Valhalla, in an ultimate bid to return Oden to power, and end the onslaught of anarchy and injustice which had brought about conflict and strife among both gods and humans.

Oden, the god of gods, had in the mind of Valigan, grown soft and useless. Valigan was by all accounts just a foolish upstart, but he was also the deity of anarchy, and had for some time been calling for all out mutiny in Valhalla. In time, he got what he wanted, so far as his call led to an all out war, in Valhalla and on earth.

Tyr was Oden’s champion, and had vowed not only to put an end to the war, but to also restore Oden’s full glory, in both Valhalla and on earth. In a hard fought battle against the forces of anarchy, Tyr’s army was ultimately successful, and an uneasy peace, among the gods and humans alike eventually ensued. But, like all great victories, it came with costs.

Slain by Tyr’s own hand was Valigan, but it cost Tyr rather dearly; fighting by Valigan’s side had been his faithful Fenir, a blood-thirsty, three-headed dog that, without any hint of fear or hesitation, leaped out at Tyr. Growling, with rage, its teeth fully bared, it snatched away with Tyr’s hand the very instant that Tyr swung the fatal blow that killed its master. Howling in pain, having just lost his hand, Tyr's blade next swung at Fenir, and killed it. Notwithstanding the pain, with Valigan dispatched, Tyr’s victory came to the attention of other gods who, up until then, had either been hedging their bets, or elected to remain neutral in the whole torrid affair. Torm and Ilmater were not among the neutral, but up until then neither had been able to sway their colleagues, other deities, to fully support Oden one way or the other. Tyr’s victory against Valigan soon changed this, such that Torm and Ilmater were now able to join up with Tyr proper, and help lead the charge made up not only of the archons, but of other gods and lesser deities, who finally agreed to aid Oden’s cause.

With this, and with Torm and Ilmater fighting by his side, Tyr’s army was successful; and all that was good, and fair, and just was inevitably able to prevail. And on that day, perhaps to avoid a repeat of the conflict arising from lawlessness and evil, Tyr gave the whole of Faerun perhaps the greatest gift of all: that of the law codes, to enable human progress, and fair administration of justice. With this, the victorious triad – consisting of Tyr, Torm, and Ilmater, returned to Valhalla, where they were all rewarded by Oden for their loyalty; his power fully restored, he was most thankful, and rewarded especially for this was Tyr.

For his blind obedience and just retribution against Valigan and the forces of anarchy, Oden bestowed on Tyr the mantle of justice, which he dutifully accepted, in addition to his duties over matters of war. With anarchy now destroyed, a peace ensued among the gods and the humans, too. On earth, it became known as the procession of peace: and many centuries soon came to pass, where all of Faerun was able to flourish and to prosper. But, like all great victories, they do not last. A great storm was coming, brewing in Valhalla were rumors that other gods and lesser deities were getting ready once again to challenge Oden for the throne of power, and all of Faerun could feel that something terrible was afoot.

One such place where these rumors were brewing was in a sleepy village by the sea, in a place today known as Ireland. Rumors quickly spread that an evil god, be it Cyric or maybe even Bane, was up to no good, and that Tyr in turn was seeking a champion. Like all good rumors, be they false or be they true, panic ensued, and the village was soon abuzz.

“Stop this nonsense at once,” demanded a village leader, but it was no use. The village had heard the rumors about an ensuring war among the gods, which as expected led to panic. Then, one day, a miracle happened. In the middle of the village, thrust deep into a boulder, and completely out of thin air, a longsword appeared; also known as the justicar, or the sword of justice, it bore the clear mark of Tyr.

“The rumours, they be true,” cried an old man. “Tyr *is* seeking a champion!”

With that, the boldest and strongest men of the village approached the rock, to examine the sword, and were determined each and all to pull it. Be it for reasons of glory, or riches, or other earthly inclinations, each man grasped at the handle, determined to be Tyr’s chosen champion, and expecting that their brute strength alone would succeed in pulling Tyr's sword from the boulder. But try as hard they might, as strong as they were, each man failed in turn to budge the sword. None could pull it from the boulder.

“We’re doomed!” cried an elderly woman, clutching at the children now gathered around her, as if she could protect them from the coming storm. On hearing this cry, and the incessant and growing buzz from outside his office window, the Battle Magistrate had no choice but to leave his temple, which doubly served as his court; he was determined to restore the peace.

“What is this all about?” asked the Battle Magistrate, who was not only the village protector and healer, but also its law-giver. A follower of Tyr, and a decorated soldier and doctor, who went onto law school (in those days, taught by the temple priests), who had verily studied the code; it was the same code that had been granted so long ago by Tyr. On hearing the rumors, and seeing the sword jutting out from the boulder, the Battle Magistrate understood; he knew what it was that he had to do. As a follower of Tyr, a loyal and faithful priest with nothing but the cause of fairness, justice, and goodness in his heart, the Battle Magistrate approached the rock, and stood there awhile, praying, beside the sword of Tyr.

“It’s too deep,” cried one man, who had been among the first to fail to move it.

“It’s some kind of trick,” cried another, who had likewise been unsuccessful.

“It’s dark magic, foul it ‘tis,” cried the elderly woman, still clutching at the children.

“It’s a sign of Tyr,” responded the Battle Magistrate. “So long as Tyr is with us, all that is good, and just, and fair is also with us.” Closing his eyes and feeling for the handle of the blade, he grasped it, gently but firmly, and continued to pray.

“By Tyr’s will,” he prayed, his eyes shut tightly, and he pulled upon the blade. Without trouble or resistance, he pulled Tyr's sword from the boulder, as effortlessly as one might slice with a hot blade through butter. The Battle Magistrate, a learned man and village law-giver, being just, and fair in his actions, with no thought of reward, or anything other than the purity of hope and faith in his heart, was able to pull out the sword: Tyr had chosen.

“It be a miracle,” exclaimed the old woman, releasing the children.

“We’re saved,” cried another in the village, while guzzling down his beer.

The panic, in turn, began to dissipate, and the village calm once again; everyone took a deep breath. Come what may, they knew Tyr was with them, for he had chosen his champion; that he had chosen so wisely also meant that justice, as they knew it, as Tyr had decreed it to all of Faerun so long ago, would be delivered against the guilty on behalf of the weak, and the sick, and the innocent. With this, they exalted relief: for it was also decreed that, so long as Tyr had a champion, all things good, and just, and fair would prevail.


BATTLE MAGISTRATE (Champion of Tyr) – Overview
Cleric(26), Fighter(4), Champion of Torm(10)
Race: Human / Alignment: Lawful Good, or Neutral Good

Cleric Domains (Deities):
Primary: Tyr (God of War & Justice); Secondary: Mystra (Goddess of Magic)

FINAL STATS:
STR: 17 (28)
DEX: 8
CON: 14
WIS: 14 (19)
INT: 12
CHA: 9 (10)

Hitpoints: 468 (> 700 Buffed)

Saving Throws:
Fort: 36 (38 Endurance)
Will: 31 (33 Owl’s Wisdom)
Reflex: 24 (26 Cat’s)

Saving Throw bonuses: Spells: +8
Spell Resistance: 38 (Spell)

Enhancements:
Available Immunities: Death Magic (Death Ward), Mind-Effects/Spells (Protection, Clarity)
Also, Undeath’s Eternal Foe (Neg. Dam, Level/Energy Drain, Poison, Disease, etc.)

Enhancements (Illustrative):
Battletide, Aura of Vitality, & War Domain: Battle Master (to name but a few of the many great buffs available to epic war clerics, with a nice menu of 9th level spells, and not dispellable); Magistrate also has Divine Wrath (+5 AB/Damage, Saves; lasts: 3 rounds w. Emp. Eagle’s).


COMBAT VITALS:

*BAB: 28, AB +41 (mundane longsword, NO BUFFS)

In addition to Divine Power (+2 BAB/+2 AB), the Battle Magistrate has many buffs that easily enable him/her to achieve the full cap, and without any magical equipment, par example:

• +6 AB Strength Buffs: i.e., Aura of Vitality, Empowered Bull’s Strength)
• +20 AB Weaponry Buffs, i.e., +6 Battle Mastery (Domain War), +5 Greater Magic Weapon, +5 Divine Favor, +2 Battletide, +1 Prayer, +1 Aid (or Bless).
--
Total Capped (Combat): BAB 30/AB +67/62/57/52 (self-buffed)
--
+ Smite Bonus (+3 AB w. Eagle’s; with +12-cha. (buffs/items), +6 AB, or Total AB+73.

Ranged Proficiency: Can also use the longbow (zen archery), for added versatility, ie., Mundane Longbow: AB +34 (NO buffs; when brought to the cap: AB +60)


*Combat DAMAGE (Mundane Longsword*):
1-8 +15 (crit: 17-20/2)
--
(16-23/x2 crit.)
+6 Physical Damage/Strength Buffs (when brought to cap, as is above illustrated)
+19-plus Various Damage* (Battle Master, GMW, Divine Favor, Battletide, Prayer)
+5 Divine Wrath
+10, +1d6 Darkfire (or, 11-16 Damage)
--
Combat Damage: 57-69 damage/x2 crit.
--
Smite Attack: as above, +10 Bonus Damage (or, 67-79 damage/x2 crit.)

* Magistrate’s damage enhancements include: magical, divine, bludgeoning, slashing, physical, and elemental damage: see, spell casting information (below).

Weapon Note (Deities): Tyr has two-favorite weapons, the first being the “Justicar” – or, longsword (aka sword of justice); with the other being the hammer. Mystra favors the “5-pointed Star” – or, shurkien.


DEFENSE VITALS:
AC 21 (mundane plate only) / AC 24 (mundane armor/shield only)
*Note, with Magic Vestment, Shield of Faith and/or Mage Armor, Aura of Vitality, Cat’s Grace, and Battle Mastery (Domain War Power), can without equipment self-buff AC > 50; in addition can cast spells like battletide (reduces enemy AB -2, and effectively also raises your AC +2).

*The Magistrate has casting access to spell resistance (SR 38), damage reduction (domain war powers, and stoneskin), Undeath’s Eternal Foe, and also Greater Sanctuary.

SPELL CASTING:
Cleric(Level 9), SR 26+1d20
0 – Level: 6 Spells
1st Level: 7 Spells
2nd Level: 7 Spells
3rd Level: 7 Spells
4th Level: 7 Spells
5th Level: 6 Spells
6th Level: 5 Spells
7th Level: 5 Spells
8th Level: 5 Spells
9th Level: 5 Spells

To see all the great spells available to your Magistrate, and to pick and accordingly choose spells for your spell book, please see:
http://www.nwnwiki.org/Cleric


FINAL SKILLS (172)
Concentration 42(44)
Discipline 43(52)
Spellcraft 39(40)
Tumble 20(19)
Heal 8(12)


WHAT FOLLOWS is the EPIC PATH of the BATTLE MAGISTRATE

01: Fighter(1): luck of heros, toughness, weapon focus: longsword
02: Cleric(1): domain war, domain magic*
03: Cleric(2): extend spell
04: Fighter(2): WIS+1, knockdown, (WIS=15)
05: Fighter(3)
06: Fighter(4): zen archery**, weapon specialization: longsword
07: Cleric(3)
08: Cleric(4): WIS+1, (WIS=16)
09: Champion of Torm(1): improved critical: longsword
10: Champion of Torm(2): weapon focus: longbow**
11: Cleric(5)
12: Cleric(6): WIS+1, empower spell, (WIS=17)
13: Champion of Torm(3): {Smite Evil}
14: Champion of Torm(4): Called Shot
15: Cleric(7): iron will
16: Cleric(8): STR+1, (STR=18)
17: Champion of Torm(5)
18: Champion of Torm(6): great fortitude, blind fight
19: Champion of Torm(7)
20: Champion of Torm(8): STR+1, improved critical: longbow**, (STR=19)
21: Cleric(9): epic weapon focus: longsword
22: Champion of Torm(9)
23: Cleric(10)
24: Cleric(11): CHA+1, epic prowess, (CHA=10)
25: Cleric(12)
26: Cleric(13)
27: Cleric(14): great strength I, (STR=20)
28: Cleric(15): STR+1, (STR=21)
29: Cleric(16)
30: Cleric(17): great strength II, (STR=22)
31: Cleric(18)
32: Cleric(19): STR+1, (STR=23)
33: Cleric(20): great strength III, (STR=24)
34: Cleric(21)
35: Cleric(22)
36: Cleric(23): STR+1, great strength IV, great wisdom I, (STR=26), (WIS=18)
37: Cleric(24)
38: Cleric(25)
39: Cleric(26): great strength V, great wisdom II, (STR=27), (WIS=19)
40: Champion of Torm(10): STR+1, epic weapon specialization: longsword, (STR=28)


* Domains: War taken for Battle Mastery, and access to Aura of Vitality Spell; Magic taken for defense spells, extra damage reduction, and Ice Storm spell. While Ice Storm is good, if there is no perma-haste on your world, then might really want to consider the Travel Domain (which gives access to haste). To see all the domains, and in turn their unique gifts, please see link above (under: casting information).

** Longbow Proficiency Feats: Included for extra versatility and fun; feel free to exchange for other feats of your own choosing, should you desire.
Skills Progression :

01: Concentration(4), Discipline(4), Tumble(2), Save(4),
02: Concentration(1), Spellcraft(5), Save(2),
03: Concentration(1), Spellcraft(1), Tumble(1), Save(2),
04: Concentration(1), Discipline(3), Save(2),
05: Concentration(1), Discipline(1), Tumble(1), Save(2),
06: Concentration(1), Discipline(1), Save(4),
07: Concentration(1), Spellcraft(4), Tumble(1), Save(1),
08: Concentration(1), Spellcraft(1), Save(3),
09: Discipline(3), Tumble(1), Save(2),
10: Discipline(1), Save(5),
11: Concentration(3), Spellcraft(2), Tumble(1), Save(2),
12: Concentration(1), Spellcraft(1), Save(4),
13: Discipline(3), Tumble(1), Save(3),
14: Discipline(1), Save(6),
15: Concentration(3), Spellcraft(3), Tumble(1), Save(2),
16: Concentration(1), Spellcraft(1), Save(4),
17: Discipline(1), Tumble(1), Save(5),
18: Discipline(1), Save(8),
19: Discipline(1), Tumble(1), Save(9),
20: Discipline(1), Save(12),
21: Concentration(5), Spellcraft(4), Tumble(1), Save(5),
22: Discipline(4), Save(5),
23: Concentration(2), Spellcraft(3), Tumble(1), Save(2),
24: Concentration(1), Spellcraft(1), Save(4),
25: Concentration(1), Spellcraft(1), Tumble(1), Save(4),
26: Concentration(1), Spellcraft(1), Save(6),
27: Concentration(1), Spellcraft(1), Tumble(1), Save(6),
28: Concentration(1), Spellcraft(1), Save(8),
29: Concentration(1), Spellcraft(1), Tumble(1), Save(8),
30: Concentration(1), Spellcraft(1), Save(10),
31: Concentration(1), Spellcraft(1), Tumble(1), Save(10),
32: Concentration(1), Spellcraft(1), Save(12),
33: Concentration(1), Spellcraft(1), Tumble(1), Save(12),
34: Concentration(1), Spellcraft(1), Save(14),
35: Concentration(1), Spellcraft(1), Tumble(1), Save(14),
36: Concentration(1), Spellcraft(1), Save(16),
37: Concentration(1), Spellcraft(1), Tumble(1), Save(16),
38: Concentration(1), Save(19),
39: Concentration(1), Save(22),
40: Discipline(18), Heal(8).

Edited whole build by posters request and corrected title. Grim

Edited By Grimnir77 on 08/06/06 08:01

Author's Note: this character has been revised from a previous version, to improve cleric spell access while maintaing natural, unbuffed combat stats, among other nice tweaks and improvements. Thanks are in order to a whole bunch of folks, including Kail, Thax, Mith, and Avado, who encouraged me to bring in more spell access while commenting on the prior version of this character, and also to Grim, for additionally suggesting the use of COT in the mix. To see the previous version, please: Click Here

Edited By TyrTemplar on 08/03/06 21:19

There you go, much closer to full potential from a Battle-Cleric.

You use much more of the Clerics ability now, and you get a very good combatant here. I must say well done this time around. Sorry for not having said this when we spoke, didn't think. Going CoT11/Fighter4 will give you the same amount of feats, the same everything, except better saves and better Divine Wrath....

Sorry for that....
_________________
I see the fear you have inside, you can run but never hide.
I will hunt you down and tear you limb from limb.

I run the Pre-Epic Builders guild. Join and share your experience. I agree with Grim. This is alittle nicer! The cot11/ftr4 concept is an amazing suggestion. If I were to make that one, id go cleri 10 straight away (maybe after ftr1 at lv 1). That way you get your spells in place and it makes clerics alot more livable early on. Just a personal preference.

I think the ONLY thing to make this better is to make it a Dwarf there is something sooo dwarvish about a cleric that is a meleeist! Oh, but if you do that you need an extra feat Exotic to pick up dwarfaxes!!

Nicely done, rookie
_________________
Quote: Posted 07/24/06 22:47:54 (GMT) -- FinneousPJ

You should listen to avado

this build seems pretty nice, but i think the following line is a mistake :

Quote: 22: Champion of Torm(4): epic weapon specialization: longsword

weapon spec. is a fighter only feat, can be taken only on a fighter lvl.
Quote: Posted 08/04/06 07:35:48 (GMT) -- ren66

this build seems pretty nice, but i think the following line is a mistake :

Quote: 22: Champion of Torm(4): epic weapon specialization: longsword

weapon spec. is a fighter only feat, can be taken only on a fighter lvl.
If it was Regular Weapon Specialization, you'd be right. But Epic Weapon Specialization (As well as most Epic Feats), as posted in the manual, is wrong. You can nab it on a non-FTR level(At least, I'm pretty sure you can). If you already have Weapon Specialization (from previous Fighter lvls), you can get Epic Weapon Specialization with both Fighter and CoT.
_________________
The curve is more powerful than the sword
-- BG courtesan The only weapon type this does not hold true for is Dwarven Waraxe sadly. Tyr... whilst I applaud your efforts, sadly there are some things I feel obliged to point out. Please don't take this personally, it is meant as constructive criticism so that you can improve on your build.

Generally this is a nice concept, but I really do feel that you are taking on too much to accomodate both a ranged and a melee weapon. Both suffer as a result of this.

Firstly both GMW and Darkfire are unusable on ranged weapons. And I fail to see how you reach the cap on this weapon, using your own buffs at any rate.

To try and make the most of your ranged capabilities, currently you lose three feats: Wpn Focus, Imp Crit and Zen Archery.

Personally I do not see the value in taking a ranged weapon as a cleric in this build. To make it effective, or at least more so, you should be thinking of taking Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, Weapon Spec: Longbow and Epic Weapon Spec Longbow, maybe even Travel Domain to get Haste and the extra attack.

As you can see that is quite a feat commitment.

As a caster you have a number of long/ medium distance spells at your disposal:
Ice Storm, Earthquake, Searing Light, Hammer of the Gods, Circle of Doom, Flame Strike, Blade Barrier, Undeath to Death, Word of Faith, Sunbeam, Gate and even Destruction.

Bearing in mind your final WIS is 19, you are losing a further 1 point to AB by not upping this to 20.

Your general AB calculations appear to assume that the +1 bonus from Aid and Bless are the same bonus, which they aren't

Your 1 point investment in CHA is a bit of a waste of a stat point, if you are counting on getting items/ buffs to hit the cap. You would be better off dropping STR to 16 and pumping CHA to 12, or even CHA to 10 and INT to 14, thus allowing you access to IKD, Expertise and Improved Expertise. Well worth considering when your melee capabilities are able to hit the mid 60s from self buffs.

Again this brings me back to the Travel Domain over Magic. Haste gives you an extra attack and increased movement speed, which more than makes up for the loss of Mage Armor. Also gaining Freedom of Movement at an earlier level too. Stoneskin whilst valuable is not an essential as you gain damage reduction from Battle Mastery (albeit for a short duration), but generally scrolls can be found reasonably easily in my experience.

To make the most of both Melf's Acid Arrow and Ice Storm, both of which have no save, you really should consider having a higher base WIS, really to allow you to be able to cast more of them. The majority of your spells that you memorise will be focussed on your self buffing ability, eg. Extending all of Divine Favor, Prayer, Freedom of Movement, Negative Energy Protection, Battletide and Aura of Vitalities first and foremost. Currently you will not have enough spellslots to optimise this.

Your class split, whilst it has potential, does not make the most of things. Let me explain. By taking CoT 10 and Fighter 4, instead of Fighter 10 and CoT 5, through Sacred Defense all of your saves improve by 3 points, thus sacrificing the need for Luck of Heros, Iron Will and Great Fortitude, thereby freeing up 3 feats.

Also from this, the bonus from your once a day selection of Divine Wrath is increased, as this improves with every 5 levels of CoT. Handy when your back is to the wall, pulling out a CHA based duration of +5AB and Damage.

Going this way will also allow you to take an extra Cleric level (ie. 26th) which opens up a Cleric bonus feat. In this case I would seriously suggest Armor Skin as your AC is low. Mainly affected by the crossclassing of Tumble, no Armor skin and no Haste. (Bear in mind that once items with enhancements come into play, then Mage Armor will only bring +1 Dodge AC to your total). BTW Battle Mastery does not grant an AC bonus.

Your Defense Vitals indicate a self buffing AC of higher than 50 and this is only possible through abuse of the UEF bug, which at 25 rounds does not last long enough to be hugely effective.

Currently your Naked AC is 11.
Unbuffed in mundane plate and tower shield it is only 22.

AC

10 Base
01 Buffed DEX
08 Full Plate
03 Tower Shield
05 Magic Vestment (Armor)
05 Magic Vestment (Shield)
05 Shield of Faith (Deflection)
04 Mage Armor
04 Tumble
04 Undeath's Eternal Foe (1 cast only)

47 Total with mundane equipment

No Improved Knockdown? With such a high AB, once buffed, this is an invaluable feat.

Prayer also works in a similar fashion to Batteltide, ie. inflicting a loss of 1 point to AB, Damage and Saves to enemies affected.

Empower Spell is not essential in a primarily melee Cleric. Your DCs for offensive casting are too low to be of any major hindrance except against very low level mobs

Extend Spell would not be of major benefit until 3rd Cleric level or later, as you will only be able to Extend Cantrips until that point. You could take this later on quite safely.

You can quite safely take more CoT levels in the epic phase, making more use of the benefits of Divine Power (both Extended and not). Doing this will allow you to take:
- EWF: Longsword
- EWF: Longbow
- EWS: Longsword
- EWS: Longbow
- Epic Prowess

Taking Fighter 4 and Cleric 16 pre-epic will allow this quite comfortably. With the buffs you can generate from a Cleric, generally you will be more than comfortable pre-epic.

*********************

There... finished. PM me if you need to, as I have tried to explain clearly, but it may be that I need to try again.

As I mentioned to start with, this is purely to improve this concept.

Edited By I...Samphus on 08/04/06 13:00

Quote: Posted 08/03/06 22:07:19 (GMT) -- Grimnir77

There you go, much closer to full potential from a Battle-Cleric.You use much more of the Clerics ability now, and you get a very good combatant here. I must say well done...

Thanks, Grim. Appreciate your compliment, and your idea to bring in COT (so, right back at ya! Yeah, I like this one much better, too! More COT? You did it again!; another great thought, and will PM you the changes.

Quote: Posted 08/03/06 22:59:56 (GMT) -- avado

Nicely done, rookie

Thanks, Avado, and cute Dwarf, huh? Interesting: +2 Con would be nice, but we gets over 700 HPs with our buffs; -2 cha would hurt though, also, a weapon problem -*sigh*; oh, but "cuteness" factor for sure (cute, and appreciate yer help)

WS/EWS question:Thanks, Mick: yeah, folks, while not in the manual, you can do this, if take WS with fighter.

I….Sampus: what can I say, other than wow
Please know I appreciate your rather excellent review and, as you’ll see, I agree with much of what you say, but let me clarify a couple things (again, thanks)

Longbow: had A LOT of feats, tons of them, and so, for fun and versatility, I picked the longbow/zen archery: +12 wis and +20 weaponry gets you to cap; we easily buff melee to cap, but not our ranged (ie., we get it up, but need some equip't help to bring bow to cap (good clarity point, and thanks!) While I think it's worth it, I puts it there as a choice for players to make for themselves: since we don't really have to spend GPs on much else, why not I say. But if you want something else, please feel free to do so.

IKD. I often include that feat, but here it would only be an unnecessary novelty (ie., gives a slight bonus to KD and can down dragons, which is fun I agree, but not necessary; for those who nonetheless want it, or extra bow stuff, you present a very interesting alternative, and I appreciate it: thanks!

AC: naked AC is 13, yes?; Oh, and don’t forget we also got battletide (-2 enemy AB means we get +2 AC), doom and prayer (also lowers enemy -1 AB),…and yeah, that bug (great when one's in our favor, but I didn't count it ; )

Must say though, all this huffing and buffing and ….. like melee AB, we can buff AC, and stats, too – talk about versatility, and saving money (well, gotta spend some for ie haste, maybe keen, and longbow equip't (unless you don’t want the longbow) -- hmmm, seems I'm converting (and Avado: it's all your fault!….

Domains-- War: I considered travel for haste, but can buy that just about anywhere; War for battle mastery (+6 AB, and bonus’ to str, dex, con: it's a must: from this domain, we also get aura, great spell for buffing stats, too: for a battle cleric, me thinks it's proper.

Magic: gives us ice storm, among other things. Ice (and harm) our greatest arsenal; good damage, no save, with area effect, and a serious pain for absolutely everyone, not to mention casters. Also, this domain gives us extra damage reduction (in addition to war/battle master – can’t have too much of it, right?

Haste (travel) or invis stuff (trickery) are also good domains, don't get me wrong, but not worth giving up ice or battle mastery for; as always, different styles and environs means different choices; accordingly, please feel free to customize (good points!). The link in the build to spell stuff also takes you to domains: enjoy!

Prayer, etc: Thanks for that - great spell, agreed. To hit cap, don’t need it though (nor bless, nor aid) -- rather, hits it already w. DP (+2), Battle Master (+6), GMW (+5), Divine Favor (+5), and Battletide (+2). That said, it can be worth over-casting, and here's why:

Aid: a +1 AB bonus but no effect since we’re already at the cap, but does give us some extra HPs and a bonus save vs fear (so worth casting before battle anyway); Bless does similarly, only gives all our allies a +1 AB bonus (no effect on us, as we’re already at the cap), along with a will bonus v. fear. Hence, either/or,

Prayer: also good, gives us and all allies in area +1 AB, damage, skill checks, and all saving throws, having opposite effect on enemies; again, since our AB is capped, won’t breach for us, but these other benefits, incl. +1 to our AC etc., ...

Charisma: good point. Should mention that war/battle mastery (as are all domain durations) pretty darn good on its own (ie., 5 rounds), and extendable with cha-bonus; here, another 2-3 rounds, with Eagle’s. While extending it even more would be nice, 7-8 rounds are enough, especially in light of all our other stuff.

Meta-magic: empowers our eagle's, bull's, endurance, owl's, cat's, etc. (oh, almost forgot: cat's also come's from magic); if want to, say, cast a top-notch ice storm instead, could select maximise; but w. harm and already good ice damage, I figured emp. is better here (again, depending on environ/preferences of course

Ah, so many good and interesting thoughts there, Samphus: seriously, thanks! I like your idea of making the bow better: problem is, though, if we take anything more than Cleric 8 pre-ep, our BAB/AB drops, and that’s not the intention of this particular build.

Please know I’ve another cleric-combo coming up – one, a battle cleric (a divine follower if you will, who will fully rely on DP exploit (and thus, unlike this one, be at the mercy so to speak of buffs); the other is much more of a caster, who will have bow focus proper. This one, on the other hand, I purposely built as a melee’r, exploiting a ton of the cleric’s power, but with decent unbuffed stats all his own: remember, although 25+ cleric is technically non-dispellable, they don’t beat holy sword. Also, many PWs today are seemingly playing around with the duration of buffs, making them shorter, and thus problematic for many classes, but especially the buff-heavy dependent cleric. Because Magistrate has quite decent natural, unbuffed stuff, more reliable and versatile: gives us a measure of safety and comfort, not only in the event you’re on one of those PWs, but in the event some BG with a holy sword comes along.

Seriously: stay tuned for the dual-combo coming up (and thanks, Samphus; I really appreciate your offer, and would love to take you up on that re: the other clerics! That sounds like a ton of fun, and I will PM you).

Thanks a bunch everyone, and promise to PM the changes soon! ~ Tyr

Edited By TyrTemplar on 08/04/06 21:18

Quote: Posted 08/04/06 20:52:24 (GMT) -- TyrTemplar
Domains-- War: I considered travel for haste, but can buy that just about anywhere; War for battle mastery (+6 AB, and bonus’ to str, dex, con: it's a must: from this domain, we also get aura, great spell for buffing stats, too: for a battle cleric, me thinks it's proper.

Magic: gives us ice storm, among other things. Ice (and harm) our greatest arsenal; good damage, no save, with area effect, and a serious pain for absolutely everyone, not to mention casters. Also, this domain gives us extra damage reduction (in addition to war/battle master – can’t have too much of it, right?

Haste (travel) or invis stuff (trickery) are also good domains, don't get me wrong, but not worth giving up ice or battle mastery for; as always, different styles and environs means different choices; accordingly, please feel free to customize (good points!). The link in the build to spell stuff also takes you to domains: enjoy!

Charisma: good point. Should mention that war/battle mastery (as are all domain durations) pretty darn good on its own (ie., 5 rounds), and extendable with cha-bonus; here, another 2-3 rounds, with Eagle’s. While extending it even more would be nice, 7-8 rounds are enough, especially in light of all our other stuff.

Meta-magic: empowers our eagle's, bull's, endurance, owl's, cat's, etc. (oh, almost forgot: cat's also come's from magic); if want to, say, cast a top-notch ice storm instead, could select maximise; but w. harm and already good ice damage, I figured emp. is better here (again, depending on environ/preferences of course

k, when we do clerics, we take domains based on NO itms, other than mundane. (actually we should do that always, but especially clerics). I have tried war, magic, etc. The best domains are trickery and plant! imvho. WIth all the buffs flyin around, we dont need the extras from war. Recently, i took strength as a domain. I did it for Finn's halfling. Why? to get 2 lvls of extended div powers! plus div powers. With div favs and ext div favs you got some real power. Plant for the swarm! Great for the soloist who needs a party in a hurry.

It is good you took empowered meta feat. The best spells are not the buffs so much, but blade barrier. Empwrd BB can give you so much assistance in a pinch.

Charisma!!! On a cleric??? Maybe for turning, but in the real world (well on your pw) with a good cleric how often do we do that? LOL K i concede i am different! The thing I see with relyin on buffs to charisma for damage is that you dont get enough out to put the effort in.

There is so much to clerics, we could go on. Enjoy
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Quote: Posted 07/08/06 16:20:00 (GMT) -- Thaxll'ssyllia

I think avado answered your question like no other could...
This is better, but I can't help but have some thoughts about it.

Samphus made an excellent point, Cleric26/Fighter4/CoT10 is far better than Cleric25/Fighter4/CoT11.

Quote: Longbow: had A LOT of feats, tons of them, and so, for fun and versatility, I picked the longbow/zen archery: +12 wis and +20 weaponry gets you to cap; we easily buff melee to cap, but not our ranged (ie., we get it up, but need some equip't help to bring bow to cap (good clarity point, and thanks!) While I think it's worth it, I puts it there as a choice for players to make for themselves: since we don't really have to spend GPs on much else, why not I say. But if you want something else, please feel free to do so.

Well, going ranged is not such a great choice, as Samphus said you have much better melee buffs, but as a different perspective, I wouldn't take any ranged feats at all. You only have expendable feats because you want to, you take a lot of unnecesarry stuff because you take too much Fighter pre-epic, take lots of Cleric pre-epic to use Divine Power's Exploit and move the bonus feats to Epic, there you'll take much better feats.

Quote: Domains-- War: I considered travel for haste, but can buy that just about anywhere; War for battle mastery (+6 AB, and bonus’ to str, dex, con: it's a must: from this domain, we also get aura, great spell for buffing stats, too: for a battle cleric, me thinks it's proper.

You should make one of your notes saying your PW has perm-haste items, many magical environments do not, and there's where this kind of build shines the most, therefore why Travel Domain is told so frequently.
War is nice, it's not a bad Domain choice, you seem to forget though, that you need CHA for the Battle Mastery duration, as well as for Divine Wrath, you really need to increase your base CHA, lower your starting STR to 16 and you can start with 12 CHA, even 15 STR 14 CHA would be better (for even STR score).

Quote: Magic: gives us ice storm, among other things. Ice (and harm) our greatest arsenal; good damage, no save, with area effect, and a serious pain for absolutely everyone, not to mention casters. Also, this domain gives us extra damage reduction (in addition to war/battle master – can’t have too much of it, right?

Haste (travel) or invis stuff (trickery) are also good domains, don't get me wrong, but not worth giving up ice or battle mastery for; as always, different styles and environs means different choices; accordingly, please feel free to customize (good points!). The link in the build to spell stuff also takes you to domains: enjoy!

Sorry, but Magic Domain is crap, it gives some weak spells and nothing else, Trickery is easily ten times better for a melee fight. You deal much more damage in melee than offensive casting, and you have offensive spells already.

Quote: Charisma: good point. Should mention that war/battle mastery (as are all domain durations) pretty darn good on its own (ie., 5 rounds), and extendable with cha-bonus; here, another 2-3 rounds, with Eagle’s. While extending it even more would be nice, 7-8 rounds are enough, especially in light of all our other stuff.

What? you have 9 CHA, so you cannot activate your Battle Mastery, it does not have a base duration, it's CHA modifier and nothing else, you get 0 rounds with 9 CHA, buffed 1-2 rounds is not good enough, the same for Divine Wrath (especially if you change CoT levels to 10) which is even more powerful, it's too much powerful stuff to keep your CHA so low, giving up 1 damage and AB (starting 15 STR and 14 CHA) is very worth it.

I do back up taking Empower spell, 'tis a good one methinks and you're definitely not feat starved as not to take it.

Edited By Thaxll'ssyllia on 08/04/06 22:03

Quote: Posted 08/04/06 22:00:18 (GMT) -- Thaxll'ssyllia

Quote: Charisma: good point. Should mention that war/battle mastery (as are all domain durations) pretty darn good on its own (ie., 5 rounds), and extendable with cha-bonus; here, another 2-3 rounds, with Eagle’s. While extending it even more would be nice, 7-8 rounds are enough, especially in light of all our other stuff.

What? you have 9 CHA, so you cannot activate your Battle Mastery, it does not have a base duration, it's CHA modifier and nothing else, you get 0 rounds with 9 CHA,

Have you tested this? My understanding is it's 5 rounds + 1 rnd/CHA modifier, so she'd get 4 rounds unbuffed and up to 7 rounds if she rolls a 5 on the Eagle's spell.
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It's rogue, dammit, ROGUE!!! Battle Mastery activates nicely even with 6 CHA, although the duration is of course reduced.


Cheers,
Kail
_________________
To hear the sound of Freedom, many gave their lives
They fought for you and me
Those memories will always live inside us, and now it's our time to be free Hey

Thanks, Avado: oh, I am enjoying, I am . . . . totally, as a self-professed meleer, I so totally takes it back: this guy rocks! (er, convert, indeed: me now loves dem clerics ....

Thax, Cinn: yeah, war is great: battle master, it's 5 rounds + (as in, and in addition to) any cha modifier; eagle's gives us a bit of a boost, obviously not huge, but then, we've so many other things here, that even 5 rounds is more than enough; war also gives us aura of vitality, a spell that grants us (and any allies) a +4 boost each to strength (+2 AB/Damage), constitution (HPs and fort), dexterity (AC and Reflex). It's wonderful, and it lasts (ie., 1 round/level). But, as Avado says, so many other things going on, so much from which to pick and choose...(I just think it proper for a battle cleric; & not unlike divine wrath, it's nice to know you're covered in the event of an emergency

Thax: yeah, I've no problem finding haste; and let's face it, haste is great (extra attack, more AC, ...), and so took magic for the extra defence spells (incl. damage reduction, but war domain gives us that, too); real reason was Ice. But if haste isn't available on your world, then yeah, travel would be good. Trickery I'm not so fond of on a meleer, as he fights up front, face-to-face, but just wait 'til you see my casting-cleric/archer that's coming up - me thinks you'll like him (thanks, and good point: lots of great domains, depending always on your environment).

As to DP, again, not really relying on it on this one, for reasons explained above. In addition to the casting archer a coming up, I've also got another battle cleric, and he's BAB 25/AB 40 (with the quick spell access, etc. But you'll just have to waits to see him and the casting-archer -- they be Odin's champions; this one here be Tyr's, and not so entirely buff-dependent which gives me, as a melee'r, a safety zone/comfort

Thanks so much again, everyone. What wonderful interest, comments, ideas and praises on this one: thanks. Can't tells ya anymore about the upcoming pair, as that would ruin the surprise, but I can tells ya this: they already incorporate a lot of what's said here, and will even have a great story all their own; so stay tuned ~ Tyr

ps. Avado: plant, huh? hmmm yeah, there's lots of great stuff to the cleric, to be sure; me gets and me likes

Edited By TyrTemplar on 08/05/06 00:09

Update: changes sent, and should be up in due course.

In switching FTR for COT, dropped one COT to take on 1 more Cleric, for a final split: Cleric(26)/FTR(4)/COT(10); gives us a bonus feat, which I used (after other adjustments) to ultimately bring cha to base. This, not only for better battle mastery, div. wrath, etc., but with more COT in the mix, just makes sense ... as such, no minuses, only pluses (we've I..Samphus to thank for that, folks (Grim, Av & Thax, too

... Thanks, everyone: Enjoy! ~ Tyr

Edited By TyrTemplar on 08/05/06 06:03

If you want to use a ranged weapon , why dont you take throwing axe over longbow. It allows you to add your full str mod to dmg and you can use a shield.

Imp Knockdown is very important imo, you have high ab , medicore-good dmg , but low ac - the knockdown will help you to avoid getting hit. Very helpful when you fight mobs,or enemies with low disc but very high ac.

Domains always depend on the environment you play in.
War isnt bad , but only if you have some charsima at least. A 3 round buff isnt that great. You should raise Char to 14 as suggested previously and try to raise it to 26by items. Also you should consider picking up divine might and shield, maybe instead of the ranged weapon feats.

Plant domain can be helpful too , creeping doom is nice and barkskin very helpful when it is hard to get an ammy with +5ac.

MAgic has icestorm , a very useful spell especially for those that try to run away when their hitpoints are low (what is most likley a pvp fight then) and Neg. Energy Burst is a great spell , the str drain makes it easier for you to make your knockdown work and drops the ab of str based enemies , so its like raising your ac.

Trickery...Imp Inivs , nuff said.

Travel is needed if you dont get perma haste of items. Haste is actually one of the most important things.
Quote: Posted 08/05/06 09:51:30 (GMT) -- bloodymerc

...

Domains always depend on the environment you play in.
War isnt bad , but only if you have some charsima at least. A 3 round buff isnt that great. You should raise Char to 14 as suggested previously and try to raise it to 26by items.
...

Personally, I choose the War domain not for Battle Mastery but for the extra spells, namely Cat's Grace and AoV, which I find very useful for my clerics. Domain power is just added goodness to me, CHA gear will make it more valuable of course. Anyhow, domains choice is up to the individual preferences and the environment one plays in.


Cheers,
Kail
_________________
Heavy metal
Or no metal at all
Whimps and posers
Leave the hall!

Edited By Kail Pendragon on 08/05/06 10:34

Nice, Merc re: throwing axe; mighty & work w. zen – Cool! OK, for those who want ranged, Merc’s is good thinking (drop WF/IC bow for WF/IC throw.axe instead (thanks!). Speaking of ranged, I’ve some stuff to report on that: emp wis, plus everything on the list but GMW seems to work out, enabling ranged AB +55 (DivWrath for weaponry cap, or +57), which ain't actually bad. Might also consider dropping luck of heros (cost: -1 all saves) for point blank shot (gain: negates the penalty applied if use ranged weapon close range, & grants +1 AB/damage when using it close range); I puts this as an option, since we’re a combat-cleric and go head-to-head with longsword. Then, w. buffs, immunities, and other save feats, including a better div. wrath, as has also been pointed out, it’s not exactly like we need or will miss heros (food for thought).

Domains, Cha: as Kail properly notes (and good to see you, Kail : ), Domains are a matter of personal choice, and also depend on the environs where you play: tailor, accordingly. As he also notes, War is more than battle mastery; that said, and w. cha now base, we’ve some rather wonderful symmetry here as b/w cleric and COT: i.e., w. Eagle’s empowered (up to +7 cha (& can be recast/rerolled), we gets a +3 cha. bonus). Thus, should the need ever arise, battle mastery activates for 5 rounds, + cha. bonus, and can be followed by Div.Wrath (duration: also cha bonus), so that, in total, we got us up to 11 rounds of "in case of emergency" power. Sure, with a +5/6 cha item, we gets cap (ie., another 3 rounds of each); however, with these boosts, 5 rounds of mastery is enough. Having tweaked for even more, well, let's just say we gots us some nice insurance!

Haste: as discussed, I picked my domains assuming you can find/buy a perma-haste item; if not, I’d agree, pick travel; I’d drop magic for it, not give up my insurance or other War items, but I would get haste. This, not only for the speed and AC, but extra attack it gives (extra attack=double damage (as in, 114-138 combat, or twice that as posted (our *real* damage, but you needs haste to achieve this (well put, Merc!)

IKD, AC: Merc, I’d have to disagree with you on IKD though, for reasons discussed. On this build, just be a novelty. As to AC, it’s average: above fig. don't include magic equipment, or anything other than what’s specifically listed. NOT included, i.e., is Aura vs. Alignment. Also, a HP tank: w. the flick of a switch (or two all is easily buffed, incl. HPs, which jump from 468 to > 700 (actually, to > 800 since we’ve stoneskin which, in addition to dam.reduc'n, absorbs 100 damage). With > 700 (or 800) HPs, we can handle heat.

Add to this the fact we've tremendous healing, are unlikely to be knocked, or even snuck upon (purge invis., true seeing, ultravision, immunities, SR, and …), well, you get the point. As Avado say, so much going on; I could say more, but already said too much (thanks, everyone: a most interesting and wonderful discussion, as usual! ~ Tyr

Edited By TyrTemplar on 08/06/06 08:48

Edit: just thought I'd add the following few spells to what's turned out to be a wonderful discussion of spells (for more info on these spells and more, incl. all the healing, harming, and buffing available, please see link above (in build, under: spell casting). In addition to darkness and ultravsion, and all the great spells already mentioned, let's just say that these be some of our more interesting "protection-oriented" ones

• Harm (no save, reduces target to 1d4 HPs);
• Blade Barrier (26d6 damage, reflex save for half);
• Word of Faith (among other things, a no-save spell, with an area effect, that kills summons and provides the following effects based on target's level, for 13 rounds:
Level 4 & less: Death
Level 5 to 7: Stunned, Confusion & Blindness
Level 8 to 11: Stunned & Blindness
Level 12-plus: Blindness
• Storm of Vengeance (6d6 damage per round and stunned, unless make reflex save, in which case take half damage),
• Aura vs. Alignment: among other things, grants +4 AC (deflection bonus). With both the holy and unholy auras up at the same time (doable for neutral do-gooders), anyone who hits you -- regardless of their alignment -- will take both 6+1d8 divine damage (holy aura), as well as 6+1d8 negative energy damage (unholy aura) :
• Ice Storm: All creatures in the area of effect take 3d6 points of bludgeoning damage and 10d6 points of cold damage (no save).

Enjoy!

Edited By TyrTemplar on 08/06/06 09:27