Race: Dwarf Alignment: Neutral Evil Playable 1 to 40 PvM Playable 5 to 40 PvP (depending on environment)
Two other builds in pulse cap's build searcher: with this class combination: Nature’s Dark Avenger /Druid 5/Shifter 17/Assassin 18 by Amazon Queen is a rather clever Int build that surpasses Death Says “Yip!” in many ways, but not in AB or Death Attack DC, and it doesn't even come close to damage potential. Shaper Of Death /Druid 5/Shifter 19/Assassin 16 by Emrill is a Wis build, and doesn't focus on any particular shape.
Starting/ Ending: Str 16/ 30 Dex 8 Con 16 Wis 12 Int 16 Cha 6
Skills (301 total): Disable Trap: 11 (14) {only rogues can disable traps with a DC of 35 or greater} Hide: 43 {87 with self buffs and kobold commando form} Listen: 43 {51 in kobold commando form} Move Silently: 43 {73 with self buffs and kobold commando form}, First 8 ranks are cross class Open Lock: 20 {43 in kobold commando form} Tumble: 40 Search: 29 (32) {only rogues can see traps with a DC of 35 or greater} Spellcraft: 37 (40) UMD: 27 (25)
Natural Form Stats: Max HP: 428 AC (w/ mundane breast plate and tower shield): 27 AB (mundane shortsword): +38/ +33/ +28
Kobold Commando Stats: Max HP: 438 AC (naked): 37 AB (+3 shortsword): +42/ +37/ +32
Saves (+10 vs spells): Fort 24 Ref 32 Will 19
Advantages Hide in Plain Sight DC 39 Death Attack 15d6 Sneak Attack 50% concealment from Improved Invisibility (not sure if feat based II is dispellable or not, but I would assume it isn't) Good shifted AB Good damage even when not landing sneak attacks Pretty good saves Supreme stealth (in a strength build!) Decent HP for an Assassin
Disadvantages No Evasion to compliment the high reflex save Only 3 attacks per round If unhasted, has only 1 attack in the first flurry, which means only 1 death attack (by comparison, some monk/ assassin/ full AB class X builds get 3 in the first flurry just by using flurry of blows).
Comments, Tactics, and Variations Getting to level 5 may be difficult, but once there, Bear shape should carry you easily to Gargoyle shape (Shifter level 3), which uses your base Strength score and has some nice DR if the monsters don't have +1 items yet. At Shifter level 7, you gain access to the Kobold Commando, and most of your problems are solved, but once you start taking Assassin levels you can go ahead and kick the party rogue to the side of the road (just pray you don't run across any epic traps ).
Rogue actually would have been a much preferable build design choice for the additional skill points, evasion, and the rogue only bonus feats. . .just be a human or halfling to avoid the XP penalty. However, as I understand it, Kobold Commando SA overrides Rogue SA, which is a big problem. Fortunately for the concept, Assassin DA or Blackguard SA stacks with Kobold Commando SA.
It's possible to switch the level split up to Druid 7/ Shifter 17/ Assassin 16, which would gain you a +6 shortsword w/ 2d4 acid damage and 2d6 massive criticals, Improved Evasion, +3 AC, 3d6 additional Kobold SA damage, and 2 (epic shifter) bonus feats (Great Wis I & II and you have access to 3rd and 4th level druid spells). However, you would lose 10 to the death attack DC, 5d6 DA damage, and 3 epic assassin bonus feats (which are slightly better than the epic shifter bonus feat choices, imho). I prefer the version posted mostly because a 50% increased chance of success to the Death Attack is nothing to sneeze at, especially when you only get one shot, even though the Epic Kobold Commando does have some clear advantages (higher average damage, for one, whether or not sneak attacks are being landed).
If so inclined, shifting ability scores around will grant access to level 3 and 4 druid spells, and is mostly a playstyle decision. If the decision were mine, I'd drop Strength by 1 point, bump Wisdom up to 14, and exchange armor skin for another Great Str feat, but there are a couple of other equally viable options.
Under normal circumstances, the Improved Sneak Attack feat will not stack with Assassin DA unless you have SA from either Rogue or Blackguard. I haven't tested this, but I imagine gaining SA from Kobold may allow proper stacking of the feat. If so, then it is possible to replace any of the final 3 epic assassin bonus feats with Improved Sneak Attack.
Comments/ Criticisms/ Suggestions welcome
Corrected title. Grim _________________ (I enjoy writing parenthetically (a lot)).
Edited By Kail Pendragon on 06/04/10 14:45
Dusk Revli carefully surveyed his surroundings, looking for any potential spies. Getting caught doing what he was about to would mean the end of his cover in this little town, and he wasn't about to let that happen. Hearing nothing, he closed his eyes and began focusing his mind inwards, towards the very center of his being. Slowly, the pulsing, blackened remnants of a dwarven heart came into focus. With all his energy, Revli began shaping what he saw in his mind's eye into the pulsing, blackened heart of a sickening, leather faced kobold. As he pulled his focus external to himself once again, Revli had lost all traces of his dwarven heritage; Revli had become the kobold he imagined.
* * *
Dawn As Revli went on his morning walk, he took special care to route past the town crier. He derived a special pleasure from hearing his last job announced to the public, like he was the star in a play no one knew they had tickets for. For the last 6 months, the news was always the same. There was always one dead body, one witness, and one report of a rotten toothed kobold sitting atop the corpse, wiping the blood from his shortsword, then disappearing into the shadows as quickly as he was spotted. To an outside observer, Revli might seem apathetic, but on the inside, there was something different. Yes, on the inside, the heart of a grinning kobold could still be heard beating.
Hm, I think this is a really interesting build. Seems to need a lot of thorough testing before we can utilize it's full potential, but I assume that you have tested that at least the Kobold sneak attack stacks with your regular, and thus improved sneak attack would indeed stack when in kobold form. Nice catch.
Cool build there. Not sure how useful it is in other shapes though, but going high strebgth in a form that doesn't override STr is smart.
Again, really interesting. Could be great rp to play on a PW. _________________ I see the fear you have inside, you can run but never hide. I will hunt you down and tear you limb from limb.
I run the Pre-Epic Builders guild. Join and share your experience.
Quote: Advantages Hide in Plain Sight DC 39 Death Attack 15d6 Sneak Attack 50% concealment from Improved Invisibility (not sure if feat based II is dispellable or not, but I would assume it isn't) Good shifted AB Good damage even when not landing sneak attacks Pretty good saves Supreme stealth (in a strength build!) Decent HP for an Assassin
Well, you don't get Hide in Plain Sight unless you take Shadowdancer...
Don't worry about playability before level 5, I've played Druids with 8 STR, DEX and CON and never had trouble, your Animal Companion is far too strong at those low levels since he's 3 levels above you.
Nice build concept and all, sounds very good. I second that you don't go Druid 7 / Shifter 17 / Assassin 16 or else it would be too similar to Amazon Queen's Nature's Dark Avenger.
Well, you don't get Hide in Plain Sight unless you take Shadowdancer...
He says the character is to be mostly used in Kobold Commando form, which has HiPS as a feat. SD isn't the only way. _________________ Dragonlance ROH is back, better than before! and I spend a little time here WoG
Kobold form gets HiPS...
Build looks decent, will give it some thoroughly testing
// Maniac_Mailman
Edit: Grimnir77, ay stop being so fast will ya _________________ "Omnes morimur et quasi aqua dilabimur in terram, qua non revertuntur..." - Maniac_Mailman aka Nr|Five
This is a pretty cool idea. I've never played Druids or Shifters, but this actually tempts me. Very interesting build. _________________ It's rogue, dammit, ROGUE!!!
Great build...And BTW...I LOVE this name.
Thanks for the comments everyone.
Nice build concept and all, sounds very good. I second that you don't go Druid 7 / Shifter 17 / Assassin 16 or else it would be too similar to Amazon Queen's Nature's Dark Avenger.
Actually, even if you do use that level split, it winds up being quite a bit different from Amazon Queen's. Her's used a high Int to maintain a functional DA DC, while having kobold form override her otherwise crummy Dexterity. On paper they may look similar, but the difference in the primary stat will change significantly how the two versions are actually played.
And, as others have mentioned, HiPS only functions when in kobold form. All of the other posted advantages are in kobold form (15d6 sneak attack drops to 13d6 when in dwarf form, for example). I listed the advantages that way because, well, that's how the character is meant to be played. Natural form stats aren't exactly crummy, though. You still have good stealth even in medium armor, and with Strength as a primary stat and a decent Constitution, you can function in combat. _________________ (I enjoy writing parenthetically (a lot)).
Edited By koolthursday on 08/20/06 19:16
Quote: Posted 08/20/06 16:18:33 (GMT) -- Cinnabar Din
This is a pretty cool idea. I've never played Druids or Shifters, but this actually tempts me. Very interesting build.
I've never played a shifter or an assassin, but I have been keeping my eyes peeled for a way to play either one that fits my style. By chance, they both happened to land in the same build . _________________ (I enjoy writing parenthetically (a lot)).
I've never played Shifters, somewhy I always prefer more Druid and Elemental shifts or Dragon rather than Shifter... I did't know the Kobold form has HiPS, nice.
Why dont you take more shifter levels so that you get Epic Kobold Shape? Regular Kobold = thumbs down.
but its a sort of original build..
O.O _________________ They were all dead. The final gunshot was an exclamation mark to everything that had led up to this point. I released my finger from the trigger. And then it was all over. The storm seemed to lose its frenzy. The ragged clouds gave way to the stars above.
Why dont you take more shifter levels so that you get Epic Kobold Shape? Regular Kobold = thumbs down.
but its a sort of original build..
O.O
I listed that as a variation, actually, along with the pluses and minuses of doing so (probably just got lost in all of my rambling text ). Normal kobold isn't that bad, really, but the main reason I kept lots of Assassin levels was because I wanted to keep the Death Attack DC high. For those interested, the stats of both kobolds can be seen here. Just scroll down a little.
Also, I tested ISA, and from what I could tell it does stack with Death Attack when you are in kobold form, which is good news. Replacing just one of the Epic Skill Foci feats with an Improved Sneak Attack means that the non-epic kobold version will actually produce more average damage (though only when landing sneak attacks). _________________ (I enjoy writing parenthetically (a lot)).
Edited By koolthursday on 08/21/06 05:39
Since no one has caught it yet, its supposed to be 7 druid not 5
Quote: Posted 08/22/06 06:51:53 (GMT) -- Ryouko_
Since no one has caught it yet, its supposed to be 7 druid not 5
Oops. Nice catch . I'm sure someone with one of the secret decoder rings can help us out. _________________ (I enjoy writing parenthetically (a lot)).
Ullo *pokes head into thread*
I haven't been around much lately, but I do love shifters and couldn't help myself now. Anyways, I figured I'd clear up the issue of sneak attacks and stacking for the kobold. The kobold shape gets rogue sneak attack as a bonus feat from an item, so it stacks with assassin and BG sneak attack but not with rogue sneak attack. For a build like this, 8d6 death attack would allow you to get improved sneak attack feats, but as far as I know that still doesn't work with death attack so it would normally be useless. However, it does work with the rogue sneak attack that kobolds get, so it might be worth taking a few.
And nice build of course
I realize this is oooooooooold. (4 years old)
But, I HAVE to ask, as I'm using this for the original NWN campaign.
It says to take improved knockown at level 9: druid 5/shifter 3 being the level 8 build... But with 5 druid you get +3 BAB and with 3 shifter you get +2 BAB, which makes +5 BAB... Improved knockdown requires +7 BAB.
Am I stupid or something? What am I missing?
Edited By MetalTree on 06/01/10 23:49
I had a nice answer all done up about 4 years ago, alas, i have forgotten t Alas, the answer is probably as simple as a mistake from translating the build to this format. It happens quite alot, and in this build it isnt a big deal. Simply take blind fight at 9 and move ikd to 12 You have to remember that while a build appears to be a permanant thing, they are really just suggestions. Personally, i wouldnt have taken ikd cuz i never used kd, so i would have had 2 open feats in this guy, had i played him.
The whole thing with ECB guild ISNT to creat zombies. I believe Anuis wanted to have a place for creative interaction, and you should really look at the builds as suggestions, using the suggestion to make a build that is uniquely yours.
Edited By avado on 06/02/10 00:27
Quote: Posted 06/02/10 00:20 (GMT) -- avado
Quote: Posted 06/01/10 23:49 (GMT) -- MetalTree
I realize this is oooooooooold. (4 years old)
But, I HAVE to ask, as I'm using this for the original NWN campaign.
It says to take improved knockown at level 9: druid 5/shifter 3 being the level 8 build... But with 5 druid you get +3 BAB and with 3 shifter you get +2 BAB, which makes +5 BAB... Improved knockdown requires +7 BAB.
Am I stupid or something? What am I missing?
This is a good question, and since i am slightly rusty at my math, i will give it a shot
On a more serious note, both druid and shifter are 3/4 bab, or 75% of Full bab. .75*9=6.75, which is probably rounded to 7!
Now, there is a more elegant answer, which at one point many moons ago, i did know the answer too. Alas, it escapes me at the moment. Maybe Grim will come to give clarity to my confusion! LOL
Yes, that's true, but... You take improved knockdown on level 9, so you're level EIGHT when you take it, therefore: 75*8=6.00 And actually, the BAB is listed as 5. And it's not listed on available feats...
LOL POST LURKER!!!
I changed my answer cuz i looked at the ab chart on nwnwiki *shakes off the bab rust*
Thanks, that helped.
BTW, I wasn't going to use this exact build. I was just wondering, because I wasn't sure if this was a good build if they didn't pay attention to that... Anyways, thanks. I'mma go play now.
Edited By MetalTree on 06/02/10 00:44
I found this build to be very interesting. You have come up with a unique concept, congrats!
However, I have somethings to ask and add if I may.
1- Why Druid 7? 5 is enough to get Shifter and your wisdom is not high enough to cast lvl 4 spells. So why?? If it is for Spellcraft Skill dumps, then why not take Druid (6) at lvl 22 and Druid (7) at lvl 37 to get the most out of your saves? You must have 40 RANKS in Spellcraft to get the +8 save bonus. The way you listed this, you only get +7.
2- You mentioned an alternate way to do this (Druid 7 / Assassin 16 / Shifter 17). Why not Druid 5 / Shifter 17, Assassin 18? That way you'll get an extra Assassin Bonus Feat and 1d6 extra Death Attack at virtually no cost! BTW, the Epic Kobold Commando gets Invisibility, in case you have used HiPS in the last 5 seconds.
3- Doesn't Improved Critical work while shifted? If it does, then you gotta find a way to squeeze it in there. You could drop Toughness or choose Human instead of Dwarf to get it in. Either way you lose 40 HP. Human would also mean more Skill Points.
That is all I have to add. Very interesting build. I might try it after I finish my current campaign.
Take it EZ!
P.S.: It's a SHAME that none of the 3 classes have martial weapon proficiency and you gotta waste a feat on it. Oh well, I guess it's the cost of being original ^^
Quote: Posted 06/02/10 13:06 (GMT) -- Maximillian Kane
You must have 40 RANKS in Spellcraft to get the +8 save bonus. The way you listed this, you only get +7.
No, I dont think so. One can add the INT modifier bonus when it comes to spellcraft. He has a base of 37 + 3 modifier from a 16 INT.
You might be thinking of Tumble. Which does require BASE ranks and does not include the DEX modifier.
From NWNWiki:
"A successful check means that your character has identified a spell being cast by an opponent. The difficulty class of this check is equal to 15 + spell level. The character also gains a +1 bonus for every 5 ranks in this skill to all saving throws against spells. "
Quote: Posted 06/02/10 17:22 (GMT) -- Maximillian Kane
From NWNWiki:
"A successful check means that your character has identified a spell being cast by an opponent. The difficulty class of this check is equal to 15 + spell level. The character also gains a +1 bonus for every 5 ranks in this skill to all saving throws against spells. "
Also from the wiki, under "Notes":
"Unlike with other skills (such as the AC bonus from Tumble), the saving throw bonus is based on fully modified ranks (not base ranks). Hence Epic Skill Focus in spellcraft grants a +2 bonus to all saving throws against spells."
Yeah, but from that I didn't get that ABILITY MODIFIERS influence the saves. To me, that still means ranks. Correct me if I am wrong, but this is how I see it:
- BASE RANKS = Number of points spent on the skill
- MODIFIED RANKS = Number of points spent on the skill + feats that also enhance those skills.
- SKILL MODIFIER = MODIFIED RANKS + the ability modifier.
I might be getting it wrong, but that's how I always thought it worked.
Take it EZ!
You're getting it wrong. All modifiers count.
OK! Thanks for clearing it out for me then
Sorry galelabriel and onion eater, for being such a stubborn jackass
Take it EZ!
Quote: Posted 06/03/10 02:29 (GMT) -- Maximillian Kane
OK! Thanks for clearing it out for me then
Sorry galelabriel and onion eater, for being such a stubborn jackass
Take it EZ!
No need to apologize, stubborn jackass! I'm kidding These skills with there base and modified ranks and such can be a bit tricky at times.
Quote: Posted 06/02/10 21:03 (GMT) -- Maximillian Kane
- MODIFIED RANKS = Number of points spent on the skill + feats that also enhance those skills.
Take it EZ!
You should've noticed where it says FULLY modified ranks. _________________ We are sons of Odin, and the fire that we burn inside is the legacy of warrior-kings who reign above in the sky I will lead the charge, my sword into the wind Sons of Odin fights to die and live again
).
Great build...And BTW...I LOVE this name. 
Alas, the answer is probably as simple as a mistake from translating the build to this format. It happens quite alot, and in this build it isnt a big deal. Simply take blind fight at 9 and move ikd to 12 
