My token Druid build. No other builds take this combination of classes, save one: The Witch And it doesn’t look anything like this. And Yes, Krynn fans, I plagiarized the name because I found it fit somehow, and I thought "The Dracolich" to trite at this point. Sue me.
The Dracolich of Autumn Twilight
Druid26/Bard4/Palemaster10 Playable 1-40, PvP, PvM, All Environments
Against the Living 1. Spam Drowns; DC: 33 (39 buffed) 2. Extended Creeping Doom: No Save, No SR, Automatic 50% movement decrease 3. Animal Companion, Elemental Swarms, to wear oppoents down or clear mobs 4. Empowered Ice Storms 5. Harm
Against the Dead 1. Flame Strike 2. Sunbeam and Sunburst 3. Heals
Against Constructs 1. Crumble: No save, No SR, 15d6 damage
Against the Spell Resistant Nature's Balance: DC 35 (41), lowers SR by 5d4
More Arsenal and Defense + Infinite Elder Elemental Shape: + Infinite Improved Wild Shape + Taunt: Reduce opponent’s AC by up to –6 + Use Magic Device: In a medium scroll rich environment, you can add even more Firepower with Cleric Buffs, Improved Invisibility, Spell Mantles, etc... + Immune to Crits, Sneaks, Stun, Holds, Paralysis, Grease, Web, Entanglement, and Poison _____
Dragon Form
Attributes Str 48 (60) Dex 36 (48) Con 32 (44) Wis 32 (44) Int 14 Chr 8
Combat Stats AC: 57 Buffed AC: 73 (Barkskin, +5Deflection, +12Dex) AB: 49/44/39 Damage: 2-16+19/2-16+19/2-16+19 (19-20/x2) Buffed AB: 60/55/50 (Blood Frenzy, +12str, Aid and Bless potions, Bard Song) Outdoor Buffed: 62/57/52 Max AB: 81/76/71 (includes successful Taunt) HP: 830 (1,070 max) DR: 40/+6 SR: 20 (38) True Seeing Immunity to Mind- Affecting Spells Immunity to Sneak Attacks Immunity to Criticals
Saves Fort: 33 (39), vs Spells: (48) Reflex: 29 (35), vs Spells: (43) Will: 33 (39), vs Spells: (48)
That’s it, lads. Never played a Druid before, so I wanted to do something unique and different without resorting to cheesey monk tactics. At the end of the day, I still think the Monk is bit more powerful, but this cat makes up for it in a hurry. UMD, Taunt, and Crit Immunity helps to take away the sting of Wis AC, Monk attack schedule, Evasion.
I considered going lighter on Druid and taking more PM for Epic Spells and AC, but I felt it was more powerful being undispellable and also having a bit easier time piercing SR. He’s probably as tough as a Druid caster you’ll find pre-epic, which gives him a lot of flexibility as a character as he goes through Epic. Tough caster and tough summons to boot, he never peaks as far as power goes, but steadily follows the bell curve up to the end of 40. It’s a build that would probably get banned in most low-magic servers, though offensively I don’t think it’s as powerful as, say, Order of Jormundgandr.
Edited title on author's request - Kail Pendragon _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
Ariel, Ookla, RIDE!
Edited By Kail Pendragon on 10/12/07 16:12
What's this? A Druid build from the Dwarflord? Gah, next I expect an Elf build out of you!
Cool build. I've nothing at all to add, as I know next to nothing about Druids and don't know anything about the shifted forms. Looks pretty good to me though. Nice mixture of classes to get a good range of abilities.
Oh, and our lawyers will be at your door soon. _________________ It's rogue, dammit, ROGUE!!!
Nice build you've got there GD. It ain't just a crit immune Dracolich of Autumn Twilight, it has got all the power of a caster druid and some aces up his sleeve. It's just a pity you don't get the Dracolich model when shifting, that would have looked cool
Nothing to add here, well done and muchos kudos.
Cheers, Kail _________________ Unto to the darkness I commend my soul Never shall I repent Never shall I be saved
I'll go into the House of Death Before my last breath My enemies all shall die!
That's probably one of the best books I ever read.
*sniff*
Great build too. In a +5 and lower environment a crit immune dragon would be such a pain............ And you are quite tough in human form too.
Druid/undead combo..... hm...... Write us a good story, eh? _________________ Dragonlance ROH is back, better than before! and I spend a little time here WoG
Saves Fort: 33 (39), vs Spells: (48) Reflex: 29 (35), vs Spells: (43) Will: 33 (39), vs Spells: (48)
...
hi grizz. well done. i just have one little question. what is the first number in brackets in the saves, after the normal score? is it a buff?
ya, monk makes any dragon build cheesy and uber, but this comes really close.
-cs _________________ Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.
I'd say it's the saves with capped abilities, they are all at +6 compared to base.
Cheers, Kail _________________ Looking for a realm of adventure? Check out World of Greyhawk, you won't regret it.
It ain't just a crit immune Dracolich of Autumn Twilight
You know, it will set a precedent as far as building goes for me, but I actually like that name better. Can you switch it to "The Dracolich of Autumn Twilight"? It avoids plagiarism while still paying homage to the source, and also is a closer to description to the build at hand.
Quote: it has got all the power of a caster druid and some aces up his sleeve. It's just a pity you don't get the Dracolich model when shifting, that would have looked cool
Indeed. Speaking of Caster Druids, I was wondering what other people thought about schools of Focus for Druids. Mages are usually the stock 2 (Evocation, Necromancy), and most Clerics won't take any, and if they do it is Evocation for Implosion DCs. But what about Druid? They seem to have an equal amount of useful spells across the board that force DCs. What would you all consider to be a good school of focus? I only chose Transmutation because this build, in pre-epic, has the strongest Drown DC you can get, and it's quite effective since there's no immunity other than making a save. There's a few other spells that receive synergy (Nature's Balance stands out). But I was sorely tempted to take Evocation or Necromancy in this build. I stuck to the Drown tactic. 90% of someone's hitpoints can be pretty damn devastating. Only works on living creatures, though (I think that includes Outsiders and Aberrations).
Quote: Nothing to add here, well done and muchos kudos. Cheers, Kail
Thanks, Kail. I appreciate your insights on these things. I tested all day yesterday on the attack schedule, as it seemed fuzzy, and watching it versus rolling back the tape was like two different things. I used a Regen Spell to separate the rounds, and it turned out he only gets the 49/44/39 combo, though it seems like he gets more. I think the confusion lies in that he usually hits with all 3 shots, while an opponent with 5 APR hits with 2, maybe 3. What I couldn't figure out was that in the animatics, there were rounds where he only attacked with his jaws, and then 3 rounds would go by and he only ever attacked with his claws.
Great build too. In a +5 and lower environment a crit immune dragon would be such a pain............ And you are quite tough in human form too.
In a +5 or lower, he would be a deity. In above +5, I still think he would kick the crap out of most things except maybe pure casters, and even then that isn't a done deal given his high initiative in Dragon Form, and his UMD to set up Scroll defenses (Greater Spell Mantles, Globes, etc..)
hi grizz. well done. i just have one little question. what is the first number in brackets in the saves, after the normal score? is it a buff?
Druids have no problem maxing out Strength, Wisdom and Constitution (Owls Insight gives +12Wis, Blood Frenzy and Aura of Vitality give you +6 Con amd +4 Dex), so one only needs to 6 points to max Con, and 8 points to max Dex (potion and +3 or greater Dexterity property on Armor, helmet or Shield). Therefore, the second number in the saves is with those 3 stats buffed to the hilt, and the 3rd is with that and Spellcraft in effect. Yes, a bit scary for no Pally/BG/Chr combo.
Quote: ya, monk makes any dragon build cheesy and uber, but this comes really close.
-cs
Thanks, Christian, I think I only see you anymore when I post a build. You need to get out more. But I think Dragon Shape in general is pretty uber when you consider the stats you get in that form.
Makes RDD's look like Wyrmlings. _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
Ariel, Ookla, RIDE!
Edited By grizzled_dwarflord on 08/30/06 01:28
Nice build. I'm not a fan of druids so I can't comment too much. As I recall conjuration also has some nice spells for a druid like stone hold and a couple more (stone hold +creeping doom ), but I think transmutation is probably your best bet. A dragon that's immune to critical hits and has that dragon DR as well is going to ruin the day of most melee build and you have good DCs with your druid spells, which next to the mage spells are the most offensive in the game. _________________ Two wrongs don't make a right but three lefts do.
WOW! I, like so many here, dont care for the druid... but this one... I HAVE to try!
Quote: Posted 08/30/06 01:25:36 (GMT) -- grizzled_dwarflord ... Thanks, Christian, I think I only see you anymore when I post a build. You need to get out more. ...
well, i do not post as often. I have been trying to come with one final build. most likely my last. but nothing comes to me. i would like to go out on a story, and naturally i would like to go out with a ranger. if anyone has any suggestions or ideas or such, I would be glad to hear it via a pm. i'll try to get out more.
-cs _________________ “If you bring a Ranger with you, it is well to pay attention to him...”
If you're going to do a final build christian, then make a gnomish ranger/ druid combination.
Quote: Never played a Druid before, so I wanted to do something unique and different without resorting to cheesey monk tactics.
Monk may be a cheesy, cliche, PGish addition to Druid builds, but I think Pale Master is right up there on the powergamer scale. Aren't Druids supposed to hate undead? If that's the case as it says in their description, I can't imagine them wanting to become a Pale Master. Of course I don't imagine they would want to summon a mummy or shift into undead either, but they can do those things and nobody even thinks twice. In fact, only Druids can use Undead Shape in NWN. I'm not trying to put down your build, just commenting about some RP stuff (albeit not from a DM's perspective). I'm a big fan of it, particularly Druids, though not so much that I would abstain from using Undead Shape. Immunity to criticals is pretty hard to argue with. I am also a fan of the "cheesy, cliche, PGish" Monk addition to Druid builds, though not really the Lawful Neutral thing. I like to think there is an order of Monks of some nature god that would validate the Druid/Monk combo. Anyway, nice build.
Monk may be a cheesy, cliche, PGish addition to Druid builds, but I think Pale Master is right up there on the powergamer scale. Aren't Druids supposed to hate undead? If that's the case as it says in their description, I can't imagine them wanting to become a Pale Master.
I think that's true on a general level, but I don't think that's the rule. There are plenty of documented cases in which a Druidic sect evolves into something twisted in their perservance to preserve the balance between life and death. Who more apt to preserve such a balance than one has a foot in each world? At least, that is the "type" of argument I have heard from such individuals or RP scenarios. I actually recall such a group in one of the BG modules (though can't recall specifically which one), as well as some NWN modules.
Quote: There are plenty of documented cases in which a Druidic sect evolves into something twisted in their perservance to preserve the balance between life and death.
Interesting. There's an exception to every rule, I guess.
I actually recall such a group in one of the BG modules (though can't recall specifically which one)...
BGII:SoA, Fangorn's Shadow Druids. Not undead in any sense, but instead of using their own powers to protect nature, they'd started drawing power from the nature they were supposed to protect in order to directly attack the civilization they saw as a threat. Not a nice bunch of people; I can definitely see some of them being necromancers. So, yeah, there's some precedent.
excuse my ignorence in the area but what makes him undispelable?
Quote: Posted 10/12/06 20:56 (GMT) -- sarge525
excuse my ignorence in the area but what makes him undispelable?
Any caster is undispellable once he has 25+ caster levels, since the best dispel (Greater Dispel) can only dispel a max level of (d20 +15) level caster. So, with 26 caster levels, this build cannot be dispelled. Mords can still strip his spells though. _________________ It's rogue, dammit, ROGUE!!!
fair enough, I always just assumed mords as a dispell since thats effectively what it does.
Quote: Posted 10/12/06 21:26 (GMT) -- sarge525
fair enough, I always just assumed mords as a dispell since thats effectively what it does.
Ture, but the reason most builds point out 'undispellable' is it's true vs such casters as Clerics, Druids, lower level mages, and characters with Dispel (but not Mord's) scrolls. Against Mord's (or a Holy Avenger), all bets are off. _________________ It's rogue, dammit, ROGUE!!!
Does IC: Unarmed Strike work with shapeshifted forms? I was under the impression since WF: Unarmed did not, the IC would not either.
For some strange reason, IC does work, even though the other weapon-specific feats don't.
Quote: Posted 10/12/06 20:04 (GMT) -- Cinnabar Din
Any caster is undispellable once he has 25+ caster levels, since the best dispel (Greater Dispel) can only dispel a max level of (d20 +15) level caster. So, with 26 caster levels, this build cannot be dispelled. Mords can still strip his spells though.
Would that not depend on the roll? For example if the greater dispelling rolled a 20 (+ 15) will equal to 35, so would that not beat a 25 (caster level) + low roll (say 5) of the opposite character?
Quote: Posted 10/15/06 10:21 (GMT) -- Jehoshua
Would that not depend on the roll? For example if the greater dispelling rolled a 20 (+ 15) will equal to 35, so would that not beat a 25 (caster level) + low roll (say 5) of the opposite character?
There are never two rolls in this game; in a dispel check, the DC is constant at 11 +caster level. _________________ "With Europe liberated, the people of the world turned their attention to that old devil, the United States of America [...] We taught that monster of old the true meaning of freedom." Star Wreck
There has been a misunderstanding about what I was aking. For someone to dispel magic from another the caster must overcome a DC made from the opponents caster level + 1d20. The character whos casting greater dispelling gets a roll dice of 1d20 + 15 (assuming his/her caster level is 15 or above). This is used to overcome the DC.
My question was is this; How can a character of 25+ be not affected by greater dispelling? Doesn't the character need to have at least 35 caster levels?
Quote: Posted 10/15/06 20:03 (GMT) -- Jehoshua
There has been a misunderstanding about what I was aking. For someone to dispel magic from another the caster must overcome a DC made from the opponents caster level + 1d20. The character whos casting greater dispelling gets a roll dice of 1d20 + 15 (assuming his/her caster level is 15 or above). This is used to overcome the DC.
My question was is this; How can a character of 25+ be not affected by greater dispelling? Doesn't the character need to have at least 35 caster levels?
Because your premise is wrong. You have to overcome a static DC of Caster lvl +11, therefore 25 caster lvls is all you need to be clear of Greater Dispelling's effects.
There has been a misunderstanding about what I was aking. For someone to dispel magic from another the caster must overcome a DC made from the opponents caster level + 1d20. The character whos casting greater dispelling gets a roll dice of 1d20 + 15 (assuming his/her caster level is 15 or above). This is used to overcome the DC.
My question was is this; How can a character of 25+ be not affected by greater dispelling? Doesn't the character need to have at least 35 caster levels?
Because your premise is wrong. You have to overcome a static DC of Caster lvl +11, therefore 25 caster lvls is all you need to be clear of Greater Dispelling's effects.
Cheers, Kail
Some people never get it the first time _________________ "With Europe liberated, the people of the world turned their attention to that old devil, the United States of America [...] We taught that monster of old the true meaning of freedom." Star Wreck
This sounds like a really fun build, always wanted to try a druid and this sounds like an interesting one to RP (corrupted druid = fun).
On the PW I play the PM gets caster levels every other level, so I was thinking about taking Druid 20/Bard 4/PM 16. This would add 4 AC, 5 HP and give me an extra epic feat while sacrificing 3 caster levels (I think?). Would you recommend going that route or a different one and what epic feats would you recommend?
Oh, +5 world with casters being a bit powered up (level caps on spell damage raised).
Edited By Letifer on 09/06/07 15:37
Does your server allow the PM caster levels top add to the Druid spellcasting? If not (it should only affect the arcane class, which would be your Bard), then I'd keep the 26 Druid levels for undispellability. _________________ It's rogue, dammit, ROGUE!!!
Echo what Cin said. It's still a rather attractive alternative, with 4 higher AC and 1 or 2 Epic Spells. You should get Dragon Shape at around the same time and probably accelerate your PM progression. The PM levels won't add to your Druid casting stats, though. _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
Ariel, Ookla, RIDE!
I am sorry to bring this back, but I was working on something like this recently, might even post it later on. However, I have to ask this: What do you cast on yourself to heal? Heal or Harm? Great build, grizz, my hat's off to you.
Take it EZ!
Quote: Posted 05/29/10 23:34 (GMT) -- Maximillian Kane
I am sorry to bring this back, but I was working on something like this recently, might even post it later on. However, I have to ask this: What do you cast on yourself to heal? Heal or Harm? Great build, grizz, my hat's off to you.
Take it EZ!
Not sure what you mean. Maybe you are confusing the Shifter shape Risen lord (actually the undead shapes) where you ARE undead, and thus, Heal would Harm you? Palemaster ISNT undead (though it would be cool), so this guy is HEALed.
Ahh... this brings back the good ol' days where we used Risen lord ALOT (back on my first ever server, where +5 items were GODLY, thus making the shifter a more useful class) RIP Calmwind You are missed.
I am not confusing anything, I have never played a Pale Master before, except for very early in my "career", when I didn't know how to build anything. I was not really certain whether the PM was considered Undead and therefore would be harmed with divine magic. Thanks for clarifying my doubts.
My goal with the build I am working on is to re-legalize Puff the Magic Dragon V1, only now you gotta go Druid 18 to get DS. I might post it later this week. Gotta test it first, though.
Just one more thing, replying your comment on the other topic about me thinking WF was short for Weapon Finesse. You're wrong. I HONESTLY didn't see it. My vision is a little blurry, so much that I couldn't renew my drivers license because I failed the optical exam. I am procrastinating the acquisition of glasses for some reason, but I will get to it eventually.
Anyway, I have another doubt as to how Pale Master spells interact with Wizard Spells. My original Build had 5 lvls of Wizard and 16 PM, and according to the CBC, it could only cast Wizard spells up to 7th level. I don't understand. How is that supposed to work? How do I get a PM to cast lvl 9 Wizard spells? I would really appreciate the help. I have the INT to cast them, btw, 20 INT...
Take it EZ!
P.S.: I know this isn't the place to ask such questions, but I have read other Dwarflord builds where the topic went astray into something completely different than the build itself, and he didn't seem to be bothered by it, so that's why I took the liberty of asking the question here.
Quote: Posted 05/31/10 14:57 (GMT) -- Maximillian Kane
Just one more thing, replying your comment on the other topic about me thinking WF was short for Weapon Finesse. You're wrong. I HONESTLY didn't see it. My vision is a little blurry, so much that I couldn't renew my drivers license because I failed the optical exam. I am procrastinating the acquisition of glasses for some reason, but I will get to it eventually.
I did not mean to offend. I have seen WF mean a bunch of different things in nwn. It was a poor assumption on my part to think that a layoff has made you rusty! My apologies.
Quote: Anyway, I have another doubt as to how Pale Master spells interact with Wizard Spells. My original Build had 5 lvls of Wizard and 16 PM, and according to the CBC, it could only cast Wizard spells up to 7th level. I don't understand. How is that supposed to work? How do I get a PM to cast lvl 9 Wizard spells? I would really appreciate the help. I have the INT to cast them, btw, 20 INT...
Take it EZ!
P.S.: I know this isn't the place to ask such questions, but I have read other Dwarflord builds where the topic went astray into something completely different than the build itself, and he didn't seem to be bothered by it, so that's why I took the liberty of asking the question here.
Here is info from nwnwiki regarding Palemasters:
Quote: Bonus spells: Upon reaching pale master levels 1, 3, 5, 7, and 9, the character gains new spells per day as if he had also gained a level in his highest caster class (bard, sorcerer or wizard). He does not learn any new spells through this ability, however.
Now, i have misunderstood this in the past.. infact, once i started playing PRC rules and clerics got "pocket PM" (living undeath lv 2 spell) i actually never looked at pm class again!
Here's how i see it: at wiz 5 you cast lv 3 spells. With PM lvls, every ODD lvl counts to a spell level, which indicates that you need 4 lvls to get to the next higher spell level. 16/4=4. 3+4=7 spell level. To cast lvl 9 spells you need to add 4 more wizard levels or 8 more PM lvls, according to my math, which may not be accurate.
I hope that helps. I think theres other screwy stuff with PM caster lvls, but again, i could be wrong
Quote: I did not mean to offend. I have seen WF mean a bunch of different things in nwn. It was a poor assumption on my part to think that a layoff has made you rusty! My apologies.
I didn't take any offense, don't worry about it. I almost didn't mention this, but I thought: "what the hell, I'm already talking to him so I might as well mention it". No worries, though.
Quote: Here is info from nwnwiki regarding Palemasters:
Quote: Bonus spells: Upon reaching pale master levels 1, 3, 5, 7, and 9, the character gains new spells per day as if he had also gained a level in his highest caster class (bard, sorcerer or wizard). He does not learn any new spells through this ability, however.
Now, i have misunderstood this in the past.. infact, once i started playing PRC rules and clerics got "pocket PM" (living undeath lv 2 spell) i actually never looked at pm class again!
Here's how i see it: at wiz 5 you cast lv 3 spells. With PM lvls, every ODD lvl counts to a spell level, which indicates that you need 4 lvls to get to the next higher spell level. 16/4=4. 3+4=7 spell level. To cast lvl 9 spells you need to add 4 more wizard levels or 8 more PM lvls, according to my math, which may not be accurate.
I hope that helps. I think theres other screwy stuff with PM caster lvls, but again, i could be wrong
That SUCKS, but I think you're right. I misread it the first time. Believe it or not, my damn eyes again. I thought I gained new SPELL levels every 2 levels in my higher caster class. After re-reading it, I have already seen my mistake. So basically, every PM lvl counts as half a Wizard lvl spellwise. Oh boy, this will take me much more work than I had anticipated. I will try to work on it tomorrow and see what I can accomplish, but the preliminary results of this findings are dire, and may even compromise the entire build I am working on...
Anyway, thanks again for the info. I hope I can pull something off.
Take it EZ!
Quote: Posted 05/31/10 20:43 (GMT) -- Maximillian Kane
That SUCKS, but I think you're right. I misread it the first time. Believe it or not, my damn eyes again. I thought I gained new SPELL levels every 2 levels in my higher caster class. After re-reading it, I have already seen my mistake. So basically, every PM lvl counts as half a Wizard lvl spellwise. Oh boy, this will take me much more work than I had anticipated. I will try to work on it tomorrow and see what I can accomplish, but the preliminary results of this findings are dire, and may even compromise the entire build I am working on...
Anyway, thanks again for the info. I hope I can pull something off.
Take it EZ!
Remember that it only increases your slots correctly. It does not raise your actual caster level. So your spells will do very little damage and have a looooow duration. They could do it right on NwN2, so I have no idea why that was never fixed in a patch. _________________ We are sons of Odin, and the fire that we burn inside is the legacy of warrior-kings who reign above in the sky I will lead the charge, my sword into the wind Sons of Odin fights to die and live again
Quote: Posted 06/01/10 12:03 (GMT) -- Grimnir77 Remember that it only increases your slots correctly. It does not raise your actual caster level. So your spells will do very little damage and have a looooow duration. They could do it right on NwN2, so I have no idea why that was never fixed in a patch.
I knew Grim would answer to what i didnt know! Thanks man. I had an idea that it didnt add to caster level, but i wasnt sure.
Quote: Remember that it only increases your slots correctly. It does not raise your actual caster level. So your spells will do very little damage and have a looooow duration. They could do it right on NwN2, so I have no idea why that was never fixed in a patch.
It keeps getting better huh?? So basically my Greater Spell Mantle would last 5 rounds, is that it?? Oh boy! this keeps getting better and better
thanks for the info guys
Does the dragon form look like a dracolich? _________________ The NWN rules, baby!
Edited By gbojinov on 06/02/10 17:11
Nops, Dragon Shape has 3 forms: Ancient Red Dragon, Ancient Blue Dragon and Ancient Green Dragon.
Nice build you've got there GD. It ain't just a crit immune Dracolich of Autumn Twilight, it has got all the power of a caster druid and some aces up his sleeve. It's just a pity you don't get the Dracolich model when shifting, that would have looked cool 
), but I think transmutation is probably your best bet. A dragon that's immune to critical hits and has that dragon DR as well is going to ruin the day of most melee build and you have good DCs with your druid spells, which next to the mage spells are the most offensive in the game.
i'll try to get out more. 
RIP Calmwind You are missed.
I am not confusing anything, I have never played a Pale Master before, except for very early in my "career", when I didn't know how to build anything. I was not really certain whether the PM was considered Undead and therefore would be harmed with divine magic. Thanks for clarifying my doubts.
