Another template to milk the most out of 3 classes, and still be an extremely lethal character. High hit points, Damage Reduction, Crit/Sneak Immunity, potent Damage Shields, Epic Warding and Spell DCs still high enough to make men shudder, this character should do well in all environements.
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Mestil's Pale Emissary aka, The Corrosive Incendiary
Wizard26/Palemaster10/Fighter4 Race: Gnome or Dwarf Alignment: Any non-good Playable 1-40, PvP or PvM, All Environments
Leveling Guide 1 Wizard, Extend Spell, Specialty School: Illusion 2 Wizard2 3 Wizard3, SF: Conjuration 4 Wizard4, Int17 5 Wizard5, Empower Spell 6 Wizard6, Toughness 7 Wizard7 8 Wizard8, Int18 9 Wizard9, GSF: Conjuration 10 Wizard10, SF: Necromancy 11 Wizard11 12 Wizard12, GSF: Necromancy, Int19 13 Wizard13 14 Wizard14 15 Wizard15, Maximize Spell, Spell Penetration 16 Wizard16, Int20 17 Wizard17 18 Wizard18, Greater Spell Penetration 19 Palemaster1 20 Palemaster2, Int21 21 Palemaster3, Great Int I 22 Palemaster4 23 Palemaster5 24 Palemaster6, Great Int II, Int24 25 Palemaster7 26 Palemaster8 27 Palemaster9, Epic Spell Focus: Necromancy 28 Palemaster10, Con21 29 Fighter1, EDR I 30 Fighter2, Great Int III, EDR II 31 Wizard19 32 Wizard20, Great Int IV, Int27 33 Wizard21, Epic Warding 34 Wizard22 35 Wizard23, Great Int V 36 Wizard24, Great Int VI, Int30 37 Wizard25 38 Fighter3, 39 Fighter4, EDR III, Great Int VII 40 Wizard26, Great Int VIII, Con22
Vitals AC: 15 AB: 21/16 HP: 502 DR: 9/- Immunities: Crits/Sneaks/Stun/Paralysis Spell Penetration: SRs of 31 or less are beaten 100% of the time.
Saves Fort: 24 (36) Will: 22 (34) Reflex: 15 (27)
Skills: 317 Concentration: 43 (49) Discipline: 42 (43) Heal: 43 (42) Lore: 15 (26) Listen: 32 Spellcraft: 43 (54) Tumble: 0** Craft Armor: 20 (31) Craft Weapon: 20 (31) *39 points remaining **Tumble was not taken. You want to be hit and you want to take AoOs.
Max Spell DCs and Damage Negative Energy Burst: Will DC36, -6Strength Loss Evards Black Tentacles: DC37 Wail of the Banshee: DC42 Horrid Wilting: Fort:41 (up to 200 points of damage on failed, up to 100 points even if saved) Acid Fog: Fort DC 39 Mestils Acid Sheath: 1d6+52 damage(no save, no SR) Elemental Shield: 1d6+26 damage (no save, no SR) Death Armor: 1d4+5damage (DC35) Maximized IGMS: 240 points (no save) Black Blade of Disaster AB: 36 Empowered Flame Arrow: Reflex DC36, up to 239 points of damage per spell, and shred Spell Mantles
Build Concept Basically, the goal here was to make a caster who could make the most of Damage Shields. Palemaster was chosen for Crit/Sneak Immunity, and 4 Fighter levels were chosen for EDR since I felt it wasn't wise to always rely on Stoneskins/Premonitions. AC is completely thrown out the window. You want to be hit. At the same time, 2 schools of magic were ESFed in order to give him variety, flexibility and potency.
Arcane Strategies: 1. Foci in Conjuration was taken for Evards Black Tentacles and for some good Room sweeping spells like Acid Fog, Cloudkill, and also makes Summons somewhat harder to remove. If Conjuration is not your thing, one can easily switch to Evocation without damaging the build. Or you could go with Transmutation and use Flesh to Stone Spells with a pretty nasty DC.
2. Foci in Necromancy was taken for the obvious nice spell selection to deal with those with weaker Fort saves.
3. Negative Energy Bursts followed by Empowered EBTs. In addition to the damage of NEBs, the strength loss is key here, as it may slow opponents down while making them more succeptible to failing the Grapple Checks coming from EBTs.
4. Acid Fog/EBT: Acid Fog inflicts 50% movement decrease with one of your better DCs. Follow that up with EBT, or any damage dealing spell. Grease will also work in a pinch in place of Acid Fog.
5. Against Casters: Flame Arrow to shred Mantles followed by Horrid Wilting, IGMS, Evards, etc.
6. Against tough melee opponents: Until you acquire PM immunties, throw up Extended Damage Shields(Mestils/Elemental/Death), Greater Stoneskin/Premonition and/or Shapeshift into Iron Golem, and just wade into the fray. They can't crit you, you'll have a ton of hit points, and you can let them beat themselves into a fiery-acidic death of bubbley goo. Once you get PM immunities, then you can do away with Shapeshifting and wade in directly and still spellcast. Between fairly high hitpoints, crit immunity and some DR, opponents will be taking 90 points of damage everytime they touch you. Augment this further with Empowered Endurance and Con-boosting items to give your mage 700+ hit points. Go even further by throwing up Death Armor so now you'll be dealing nearly 100 points of damage per hit upon you. With your low AC, opponents should have no problem meeting their own Death Requirements. You really won't be able to hit them, so you can cast BBoD which will have a decent enough AB to hit in low-magic environments. Also, by 33rd level, you can cast Epic Warding and truly be impervious to pain.
7. Against Undead: Empowered Undeath to Death should pretty much lay waste to all of them.
8. Against Ranged opponents: Bigbys followed by some huge damage spell should do the job. Greater Sanc if you must to get a bead on them. _______
A Search through the EBG did not reveal any Wizards similar with this class combination, as they were all spellswords and none attempted to be a caster. Perhaps the closest was a 20Wiz/16PM/4CoT ( Casting Tank ) by Kreestopearq), but not as lethal, and more of an AC tank than anything. I believe this bloke qualifies as a caster, and a pretty serious one at that. Spell DCs are only 3 off from max possible.
Removed extra feat - Kail Pendragon _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
Ariel, Ookla, RIDE!
Edited By Kail Pendragon on 10/14/07 13:36
Nice _________________ The curve is more powerful than the sword -- BG courtesan
very nice But there is one epic feat to much here. You do not get 2 feats at level 35.
You dont get the second epic spell focus then
Edited By blixen71 on 09/14/06 15:34
I'm not typically a fan of Pale Masters, but this looks like a good use for one. Cool build.
Quote: Flame Arrow to shred Mantles
Is this true? I haven't tested, but I thought spells like Flame Arrow, IGMS, Ball lightning, etc. no longer shredded mantles the way they used to. _________________ (I enjoy writing parenthetically (a lot)).
Quote: Posted 09/14/06 15:33:14 (GMT) -- blixen71
very nice But there is one epic feat to much here. You do not get 2 feats at level 35.
You dont get the second epic spell focus then
Well, crap. You're right. Something got mixed up during editing. Kail, you can strike ESF: Conjuration from the record until I rework something.
I haven't tested, but I thought spells like Flame Arrow, IGMS, Ball lightning, etc. no longer shredded mantles the way they used to.
While IGMS and the like doesn't work, each Arrow from Flame Arrow still counts as a 3rd level spell, and it still works. _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
Ariel, Ookla, RIDE!
Edited By grizzled_dwarflord on 09/14/06 15:59
I wouldn't worry too much about the focus in Conjuration (or at least the loss of the one feat) with regard to the EBT spell. The save for EBT is only vs the paralysis effect of the tentacles. Even if they don't paralyze, they still can deal damage to anything in the AoE. So just toss Grease, Cloudkill, Cloud of Bewilderment, and any other spells that impede movement in the same area and watch the fun.
*edit* Nifty build, btw. Good to see the creative juices are still flowing for you. _________________ It's rogue, dammit, ROGUE!!!
Edited By Cinnabar Din on 09/14/06 17:46
Quote: Posted 09/14/06 17:45:18 (GMT) -- Cinnabar Din
I wouldn't worry too much about the focus in Conjuration (or at least the loss of the one feat) with regard to the EBT spell.
I agree. It's really not a big deal, it's just the principal of the matter.
Quote: Nifty build, btw. Good to see the creative juices are still flowing for you.
Indeed, sometimes I am surprised by actually what hasn't been done. There's still some things left out there, if one looks hard enough. _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
Ariel, Ookla, RIDE!
neato. this kind of build works very well, although kinda cheeseball. my similar build is Punchy the Lich Click Here
no epic dr on him, but he focuses on the heal skill to keep himself healthy. has a little better dcs on spells and a little more damage shield damage.
I've played him to lvl 40. good build to learn about how dr works. explore your world to find the enemies with +2 or less enemies you can use ethereal visage on etc...
spells that are useful for a beater mage that grizz didn't mention.
1. slow! yes you have a pack of angry dwarves on you and your heal kits aren't keeping your health up enough. epic warding is out. slow them! fewer attacks per round will allow you to heal a bit faster and hopefully kill them before they kill you. neb is used in a similar fashion to reduce damage inflicted upon yourself.
2. bigby's grasping hand. use this for anybody that has a melee weapon, but insists on casting spells instead of whacking on the poisonous mage. grapple them and stand right next to them and they'll swing instead of casting spells at you.
This is one of those monsters that walks up to you, drops you in its mouth, and CHEWS. _________________ CATS!
*low whistle*
you've done it again.
it is amazing of what hasn't been done. the conjuration focus was confusing until I read about EBT. nicely done.
-cs
How much would it hurt to be a Human taking Fighter at level 1 (Wizard at 38) for Exotic Weapon Proficiency and turn the build into a Scythe wielding Grim Reaper? _________________ Thanks for the thesaurus you gave me, it makes me not write the same words over and over and over again
How much would it hurt to be a Human taking Fighter at level 1 (Wizard at 38) for Exotic Weapon Proficiency and turn the build into a Scythe wielding Grim Reaper?
Quite a bit. This guy is a caster. There isnt melee involved, besides just getting hit so the enemy takes damage from your shields. Your constitution will be a lot lower, making it more difficult to achieve the Epic Damage Reduction feats as well.
Edited By galelabriel on 05/30/07 00:31
The Scythe is more for show than anything else, from what I can see the possession of a Scythe is all that's missing from this build for it to be the Grim Reaper (nobody ever said the GR was a melee-type).
As for the EDR, if you go Human you will need to swap 2 Int in Pre-Epic for Con. One of these can be picked up at level 40 by taking Int rather than Con for an overall loss of 1 Int without changing when you can get EDR. _________________ N.O.M.A.N. National Organisation of Matrimonial Attorneys Nationwide
"Let N.O.M.A.N. put asunder"
No still spell feats? pity
Quote: Posted 09/13/07 22:31 (GMT) -- Rabbac
No still spell feats? pity
Why? You don't want the AC, you want to be hit with this build. Check the name. _________________ They can't stop us Let them try For Heavy Metal We will die
Why? You don't want the AC, you want to be hit with this build. Check the name.
Exactly. The only thing Still spell would serve is to give you more slots 1 level higher for damage shields, but one can already do that with Extend Spell.
Reference to Death Armor: I always thought that a successful Will Save negated the damage. Given that Death Armor does Magical damage(not Negative), it's actually one of the best 2nd level spells around. _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
Ariel, Ookla, RIDE!
Don't trust the spell descriptions. I just did a test and death armor has no save.
Ahem, well that answered the still spell question
I'm thinking about giving this one a bash but just a couple of possibly stupid questions.. Wouldnt sorcerer be better(or are the skills important)for more spells and perhaps forsake the fighter for rogue or bard.. umd alone would probably be worth more than 3 epic dr feats (9 can usually be got from items) these epic feats could be put to better use.. more con? The usual reason for going a mage/fighter is the armour would it be a big loss? Of course im not judging the build it looks great, just asking lol
Quote: Posted 09/25/07 23:34 (GMT) -- Rabbac
I'm thinking about giving this one a bash but just a couple of possibly stupid questions.. Wouldnt sorcerer be better(or are the skills important)for more spells
Generally, yes. But this is a Dwarf template designed to get a High Constitution/EDR and a decent casting stat and some metamagic and spell foci. If one goes Sorcerer, you have to invest 10 start up points just to get Charisma to 14. Dwarves do not make for ideal sorcerers. You also lose 4 feats going Sorcerer, you lose vast amounts of skill points, lose the ability to scribe scroll (which I find useful for making Spell Mantle scrolls so that I can spam those against enemy casters until they run out of firepower), and so on. No, Wizard is clearly the best choice here. I think one could make a variant using Sorcerer, and maybe taking Gnome, but it would look a bit different than this.
Quote: and perhaps forsake the fighter for rogue or bard.. umd alone would probably be worth more than 3 epic dr feats (9 can usually be got from items) these epic feats could be put to better use.. more con?
I think you are asking for a different build at this point. This guy doesn't need UMD. And I and the rest of the guild try not to assume that we can get 9/DR from items (since I have yet to find such an item in any of my games).
Quote: The usual reason for going a mage/fighter is the armour would it be a big loss?
I think you misunderstand the intent here. He doesn't where armor. He doesn't take Tumble. He doesn't want AC. He wants, needs, to be hit. The Fighter is taken in quick succession in Epic to grab the EDR feats as fast as possible without having to sacrifice too much casting-wise. While playing this character live, I found that I really liked those Fighter levels right up front at level 21-24 for instant damage absorption protection, and ended up postpoing the PM career a bit. But it's all good. Just make sure to keep a few Shapechange: Iron Golem quickslotted against any of your heavy hitters. _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
Ariel, Ookla, RIDE!
Thanks for the reply oh Grizzled One, I am now enlightened
This build really interests me right now. I play on a PW and need some combination of these classes as they will fit my "parents" The only catch other than having to be lawful evil, which I believe matters not, is that I have to be a human. What would be the best way to do this build as a human without killing the spell DC's and or DR feats?
Quote: Posted 10/13/07 04:00 (GMT) -- donbrasco31
This build really interests me right now. I play on a PW and need some combination of these classes as they will fit my "parents" The only catch other than having to be lawful evil, which I believe matters not, is that I have to be a human. What would be the best way to do this build as a human without killing the spell DC's and or DR feats?
Start with the same ability spread, removed the racial modifications: STR 12, CON 18, INT 16 the rest left at 8.
You'll end up with a 30 INT instead of 32 (which is just -1 on spells DC) because you'll have to pump up CON two times more than in the dwarven build before the moment you take your first EDR feat (say at lvl 20 and 24 you raise CON instead of INT). You'll end up with more skillpoints too. _________________ They can't stop us Let them try For Heavy Metal We will die
What kind of demented mind would come up with a build like this. It is really quite sick. I always wanted to build an evil PM build but it would be several, or rather many, levels down on the evil side.
It is also quite nice that the build has both unique features and can also do well in all environments. You are an inspiration to all of us. (To what end, I know not. But still an inspiration.) _________________ Come on, you sons of b*tches! Do you want to live forever?
Would it be benificial to use cot lvls instead of fighter?
Quote: Posted 11/03/07 01:35 (GMT) -- Rabbac
Would it be benificial to use cot lvls instead of fighter?
cant do it as done cuz there is no WEAPON FOCUS. And NO, the reason he took 4 ftr levels is to get 3 bonus feats! COT gives only 2 _________________
Quote: Posted 09/14/06 12:55 (GMT) -- grizzled_dwarflord Max Spell DCs and Damage Negative Energy Burst: Will DC36, -6Strength Loss Evards Black Tentacles: DC37 Wail of the Banshee: DC42 Horrid Wilting: Fort:41 (up to 200 points of damage on failed, up to 100 points even if saved) Acid Fog: Fort DC 39 Mestils Acid Sheath: 1d6+52 damage(no save, no SR) Elemental Shield: 1d6+26 damage (no save, no SR) Death Armor: 1d4+5damage (DC35) Maximized IGMS: 240 points (no save) Black Blade of Disaster AB: 36 Empowered Flame Arrow: Reflex DC36, up to 239 points of damage per spell, and shred Spell Mantles
Maybe I'm making some wacky calculations, but shouldn't all your DCs be 6 points lower? According to the Wiki, Spell Focus feats don't stack with each other, so you will only receive +6 from Epic Spell Focus, not +12 from Spell Focus, Greater Spell Focus and Epic Spell Focus. For example, Wail of the Banshee should be 10 +9(spell level) +11(INT) +6(ESF)=DC 36
Sorry for resurrecting an old thread, but I'd say it didn't deserve another thread.
Quote: Posted 11/26/07 20:51 (GMT) -- rafa10pj
Maybe I'm making some wacky calculations, but shouldn't all your DCs be 6 points lower? According to the Wiki, Spell Focus feats don't stack with each other, so you will only receive +6 from Epic Spell Focus, not +12 from Spell Focus, Greater Spell Focus and Epic Spell Focus. For example, Wail of the Banshee should be 10 +9(spell level) +11(INT) +6(ESF)=DC 36
Sorry for resurrecting an old thread, but I'd say it didn't deserve another thread.
No problem. You'll notice at the top of that spell list that it says Max DC. That is, the maximum DC one can attain with that build given +12 to the casting stat. Assuming one can gain at least +5-7 from items and another +5-7 from Empowered Foxes, that adds +12 to Int which is where you are getting the +6 in your casting stat calculation. Spell Focus, Greater and Epic SF only give a combined +6 to the casting stat. _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
Ariel, Ookla, RIDE!
Quote: Posted 11/26/07 21:51 (GMT) -- grizzled_dwarflord No problem. You'll notice at the top of that spell list that it says Max DC. That is, the maximum DC one can attain with that build given +12 to the casting stat. Assuming one can gain at least +5-7 from items and another +5-7 from Empowered Foxes, that adds +12 to Int which is where you are getting the +6 in your casting stat calculation. Spell Focus, Greater and Epic SF only give a combined +6 to the casting stat.
Oh, my bad. I always forget to take into consideration magic items. Anyways, great build GD! _________________ "Hats off and applause to rogues and evolution"
The only catch other than having to be lawful evil, which I believe matters not, is that I have to be a human. What would be the best way to do this build as a human without killing the spell DC's and or DR feats?