The idea of this build was to build a mystic theurge type who could cast level nine arcane and divine spells. At first I thought this would make him a master crafter who can scribe nearly any scroll, divine or arcane, and make wands of them too. However, this guy will also likely be any party's best friend, as he can spend his cleric spells on buffs and his wizard ones on damage.
For your consideration and feedback, may I present my first submission to the Epic Builder's Guild:
The Mystic Necromancer - Cleric 17/Wizard 15/Pale Master 8
Human Any non-good PVM 1-40
Stats
Str 10 Dex 10 Con 10 Int 15 (20) Wis 16 (22) Cha 14
Stat bumps go into Wisdom until it hits 22 (at level 24), then into Intelligence.
I maxed Lore to fit the theme, but I'd probably only put about 20 in play, freeing up another 23 points totalling 88, which is enough to CC 2 skills of your choice.
Domains that fit the theme would be Death, Knowledge, and Magic. Again, choose whatever you want. Generalist mage ensures you can scribe any scroll, but if you don't care about that go for necromancy.
PM was included because of the much-needed immunities and because I've never played one before Auto Quicken was included but could easily be Auto Still if you want to wear armor.
Comments?
Touched up format - Kail Pendragon
Edited By Kail Pendragon on 09/19/06 07:40
What are the cleric domains of this character?
I have never made a cleric PM before, so I haven't tested the game mechanics. Do the PM lvls have any impact on cleric spellcasting/spellslots or does PM only influence the arcane casting? _________________ The curve is more powerful than the sword -- BG courtesan
I think this is the only build with PM that doesn't go for at least PM 10. It is quite odd to ignore the so close crit immunity you are giving up. Go Wiz 13/PM 10 you still get access to lvl 9 Wiz spells if I'm not mistaken.
Autoquicken ain't worth it, it does nothing Haste (or permahaste gear) does not already do (yes, it is bugged), so drop it for Autostill definitely.
Honestly, building a good Mage/Priest ain't that easy. Your DCs ain't good and your SP is lacking, the feat investment in SP and SF seems almost a waste given the poor final values (SP Wiz 21, Cleric 23, SF: 21+Spell lvl Wiz and 22+Spell lvl Cleric). As a support character wand/scroll crafter I guess it's ok. Get yourself crit immunity and drop Combat Casting for expertise, go DEX 8 CON 12 (your HPs suck), drop Spell Foci feats and get yourself empower and extend spell (so your buffs will be stronger/longer) and something else in epic (save boosters maybe). After you reach WIS 19 you might want to pump INT immediately for more skill points. I'd keep SP feats to have some piercing power vs low SR foes. That's it after a quick glance.
Cheers, Kail _________________ Heavy metal Or no metal at all Whimps and posers Leave the hall!
I have never made a cleric PM before, so I haven't tested the game mechanics. Do the PM lvls have any impact on cleric spellcasting/spellslots or does PM only influence the arcane casting?
I'd go Plant and Healing.
No effect at all on divine classes. _________________ Heavy metal Or no metal at all Whimps and posers Leave the hall!
Edited By Kail Pendragon on 09/19/06 08:01
I'd follow Kail's suggestion to drop wizard to 13 and pump PM to 10. The crit immunity and the sneak immunity will definitely help your low HP. Likewise, go for autostill.
Just some other miscellaneous suggestions - you can easily drop dex to 8 and pump intelligence, then drop Great Intelligence for something else (armor skin, maybe). If you're not planning on relying on your domains too much, it'd also be good to drop charisma into intelligence for the slight boost. If you then shifted 2 points over from wisdom, you could end up pumping your wizard DCs by 2 points, which isn't much, but it helps.
Also, do you really need ESF: Evocation? It's useful, but the best evocation spells have no save. _________________ CATS!
Oh, yeah, I missed the CHA 14. Drop it to 8 together with DEX and pump CON to 14 and INT to 16 or STR to 12 for carrying capacity. _________________ Heavy metal Or no metal at all Whimps and posers Leave the hall!
I think this is the only build with PM that doesn't go for at least PM 10.
One other
The Gnome of Doom /Wizard 32/Palemaster 1/SD 7
Pale Master was used as a skill dump to qualify for SD early.
Damn, I had forgotten about that build of yours. Nice trick there _________________ Heavy metal Or no metal at all Whimps and posers Leave the hall!
Theres room for tweaking and the playstyle suggestion of using the wizard levels for direct damage probably won't be too effective, but I think the concept isn't a bad one. I'd go for a final level split of Cleric 12/ Wizard 18/ PM 10, drop the Spell Foci/ Penetration feats, shoot for final abilities of Wis 16/ Int 20 with the rest in Str, then play it as a buff meleer. Your main weakness will be dispels, but with both Divine and Arcane buffs, you should be pretty effective most of the time.
If you absolutely want to be a Cleric Buffer/ Arcane Caster, PM doesn't help you much, but you could still do decent at it if you go Cleric 15/ Wizard 25 with all 3 Spell Penetration feats. Just stick to the spells with no saves when in offense mode. _________________ (I enjoy writing parenthetically (a lot)).
Hold on, I suggested Wiz 18 for the level 9 spells, but I forgot about bonus spell slots from PM. Considering that, if it were mine, I'd switch the split to Cleric 15/ Wiz 15/ PM 10. Full Wizard Spell slots and most of the level dependent cleric buffs will be maxed. _________________ (I enjoy writing parenthetically (a lot)).
Wow, nice to see so many comments and suggestions! Thanks, all.
Admittedly, it's not an especially powerful build, but it's not meant to be. It's intended more as an experimental support character with great magical versatility. Plus, the idea of casting Timestop and Implosion at the start of a battle makes me giggle. Many of the options in planning the build as it's posted depend on your server as well, but I'll give my reasons as best I can defend them.
Quote: What are the cleric domains of this character?
If you don't care for the flavor of Death and Magic domains (pretty much made redundant by wizard/pm levels anyway) I'd go with Sun and Destruction, largely because there are plenty of constructs to turn on my server. Plant and Healing would work fine I suppose, but again, it depends on where you play.
Quote: I think this is the only build with PM that doesn't go for at least PM 10. It is quite odd to ignore the so close crit immunity you are giving up.
I initially planned to take 10 PM as you suggested. However, I noticed that by taking only 8 and sacrificing the death touch (useless) and the crit immunity, I get an additional 8 and 9 level wizard spell per day plus a lvl 15 wizard bonus feat. The trade-off was worth it to me, especially since the server I play on is Normal difficulty (no crits on PC's). PM 8 is just enough to get the second AC bump, spell progression, and lesser immunities. However, as the consensus seems to be that I've wasted some feats it might be good to disregard that and go for PM 10 anyway. Plus there are extra-slot items around.
As to starting stats: Dex/Con is a trade-off - an extra AC for 40 HP would probably be better though, as you suggest. Int could very well be increased earlier to the detriment of Wis, but as this build has an over-abundance of skill points anyway I thought it preferable to go for the extra cleric slots, DC, and will saves early on rather than extra skills. Cha was taken to aid turning early in the build, but is non-essential. Dropping it in favor of Str, Con, or earlier 16 Int is probabably well worth it. I just generally avoid taking anything down to 8, though I understand the reasoning for it. It just always felt like cheating to me...
Quote: Autoquicken ain't worth it, it does nothing Haste (or permahaste gear) does not already do (yes, it is bugged), so drop it for Autostill definitely.
Didn't realize that, good to know. Will definitely make this change.
Quote: Hold on, I suggested Wiz 18 for the level 9 spells, but I forgot about bonus spell slots from PM. Considering that, if it were mine, I'd switch the split to Cleric 15/ Wiz 15/ PM 10. Full Wizard Spell slots and most of the level dependent cleric buffs will be maxed.
You're losing lvl 9 cleric spells this way, which is one of the main points of the concept. A draft build of this was Cleric 17/Wiz 13/PM10, which does give you level nine in both wiz and cleric as well as giving the crit immunity.
I"ll definitely keep SP, but I'm kind of torn on the SF feats. They'd be somewhat helpful for necromancy (not so much for evocation I agree) since DC's are low...however, they might be so low as to be beyond redemption, making those feats wasteful. If I should drop them what other epic feats would you suggest to replace them?
