The Dwarven Wall is a popular tank build, but I never liked its feat selection. So I made this build which in terms of classes is identical to the Dwarven Wall, but the differences are drastic.

The Troublesome Tank
Playable from 1-40
PvM build

~Special thanks to Cinnabar Din for his continued help and suggestions~

Fighter - 8
CoT - 2
DwD - 30

Race: Dwarf
Alignment: Any Lawful


STR 16 (32)
DEX 13
CON 18
WIS 8
INT 13
CHA 6

1) Fighter(1) Weapon Focus: Longsword, Luck of Heroes
2) Fighter(2) Dodge
3) Fighter(3) Toughness
4) Fighter(4) STR(17) Weapon Specialization: Longsword
5) Fighter(5)
6) Fighter(6) Iron Will, Knockdown
7) Fighter(7)
8: Dwarven Defender(1) STR(18)
9) Dwarven Defender(2) Improved Critical: Longsword
10) Dwarven Defender(3)
11) Dwarven Defender(4)
12) Dwarven Defender(5) STR(19), Improved Initiative
13) Dwarven Defender(6)
14) Dwarven Defender(7)
15) Dwarven Defender(8) Improved Knockdown
16) Dwarven Defender(9) STR(20)
17) Dwarven Defender(10)
18) Fighter(8) Lightning Reflexes, Blind Fight
19) Champion of Torm(1)
20) Champion of Torm(2) STR(21) Expertise
21) Dwarven Defender(11) Great Strength I (22)
22) Dwarven Defender(12)
23) Dwarven Defender(13)
24) Dwarven Defender(14) STR(23) Great Strength II (24), Epic Weapon Focus: Longsword
25) Dwarven Defender(15)
26) Dwarven Defender(16)
27) Dwarven Defender(17) Great Strength III (25)
28) Dwarven Defender(18) STR(26) Armour Skin
29) Dwarven Defender(19)
30) Dwarven Defender(20) Great Strength IV (27)
31) Dwarven Defender(21)
32) Dwarven Defender(22) STR(28) Epic Energy Resistance
33) Dwarven Defender(23) Great Strength V (29)
34) Dwarven Defender(24)
35) Dwarven Defender(25)
36) Dwarven Defender(26) STR(30) Great Strength VI (31), Epic Prowess
37) Dwarven Defender(27)
38) Dwarven Defender(28)
39) Dwarven Defender(29) Epic Will
40) Dwarven Defender(30) STR(32), Epic Energy Resistance

740hp if in Defensive Stance. 660 without.

30 BAB

AB: +44/+39/+34/+29 (+1 if in Defensive Stance)

AC (with plate and tower shield): 28. 32 if in Defensive Stance

129 skills

Saves: (The ones in brackets are if I'm in Defensive Stance)
Fortitude - 32 (34)
Reflex - 24 (26)
Will - 26 (28)

21/- damage reduction

The differences between the Dwarven Wall and my build:

My build:

45 attack bonus
Better saves
3 more AC
Improved Knockdown
Gets Improved Critical much earlier
+4 Initiative
Blind Fight
Resists 20 points of elemental damage

Dwarven Wall:

41 attack bonus
80 more HP
Devestating Critical
Great Cleave
9/- more damage reduction

The purpose of this build as opposed to the Dwarven Wall is to get a much better AB while sacrificing as little as possible. For +4 more AB, I'd say the 9/- Damage Reduction and 80 HP is worth it.


Added link - Kail Pendragon

Edited By Kail Pendragon on 09/24/06 07:49

Here we go with similar builds.

Results from pulse cap's build searcher:
Fighter 8/DwD 26/CoT 6 by bnarve
The Hearth Guard /Fighter 8/CoT 10/Dwarven Defender 22 by grizzled_dwarflord
The Resistant Wall /Fighter 8/CoT 6/DwD 26 by IppyDip
The Wizards Bulwark /Fighter 8/CoT 4/DwD 28 by Kaliban99
The Doorman /Fighter 8/DwD 22/CoT 10 by mphacon
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Quote: Posted 09/24/06 07:50:49 (GMT) -- Kail Pendragon

Here we go with similar builds.

Results from pulse cap's build searcher:
Fighter 8/DwD 26/CoT 6 by bnarve
The Hearth Guard /Fighter 8/CoT 10/Dwarven Defender 22 by grizzled_dwarflord
The Resistant Wall /Fighter 8/CoT 6/DwD 26 by IppyDip
The Wizards Bulwark /Fighter 8/CoT 4/DwD 28 by Kaliban99
The Doorman /Fighter 8/DwD 22/CoT 10 by mphacon

Similar? None of them have full DwD levels like mine.
Quote: Posted 09/24/06 08:07:46 (GMT) -- Veridious

Similar? None of them have full DwD levels like mine.

That's one of the reasons I wrote similar and not identical. They have got the same classes although in slightly different proportions and, for example, GD's builds too gets compared to the Dwarven Wall.
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Quote: Posted 09/24/06 07:24:15 (GMT) -- Veridious
So I made this build which in terms of classes is identical to the Dwarven Wall, but the differences are drastic.

Well, I wouldn't say the differences are drastic. The primary difference here is that the Wall goes for EDR Feats, this one does not. Also, while The Dwarven Wall is highly recognized, you have to understand that it was created back when Dev Crit was still around in most environments. Time is the great equalizer, and I think most people now find 30 levels of DwD nice in theory, but it's too much of a straight-jacket. No options for EWS, or skill dumps, etc. I find its limitations somewhat frustrating, and have found that 22-26 levels of DwD can truly make "drastic" differences.

If you wanted to really make it a bit different, I would drop the lousy 2 CoT levels altogether and go for 2 Rogue levels-- one at Level 1 for a nice fat 36 starting skill points, and then take the 2nd one at Level 20 to skill dump into Tumble, UMD, and maybe some Search, Set or Disable. You can afford the skill points for such a move because a)you have extra from Rogue starting level, b)you get 6 more from your 2nd Rogue level, and c)you get 20 more for not having to crossclass Tumble. And, you get Evasion.

So, the choice is +1 saves and a junk feat? or UMD, Evasion, more skill points and a better skill set?
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Quote: So, the choice is +1 saves and a junk feat? or UMD, Evasion, more skill points and a better skill set?

No, the choice is:

+1 saves
1 feat
+1 ab

or

A better skill set
Evasion
+1 saves

I'd say the former. 1 AB is insignificant. So are the +1 Saves. UMD is quite significant, and has been established to be quite powerful and a game-breaker. And the dividends one receives from an Evasion investment is something you receive for the lifetime of a character.

But choose as you will. It was a worthy suggestion. I'll move along.
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Ariel, Ookla, RIDE! Indeed, the Dwarflord speaks with wisdom.

UMD is the most powerful skill in game and an asset that one should never do without. Not having it is a huge drawback. Evasion is very important too and makes a DwD more resilient to AoE spells which couples quite well with his DR and flanking immunity making him even more of a tank.


Cheers,
Kail
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Heavy metal
Or no metal at all
Whimps and posers
Leave the hall!