Another PM 10 build. And a "Halfling of Doom" one too, all rolled together in one cute little package
We've got an Epic Dodger, Self Concealment V halfling dexer here, with a wide skill selection (Rogue+Bard); actually it's so wide that skillpoints ain't enough (not that they ever are enough to me). Spellcraft and Taunt are a nice addition that will help vs spellcasters (better saves and spell failure chance) and melee types alike (lowering their AC). A 6th lvl Bard Song is there to help a little too.
Considered the high AC, ED, SC V, Crit immunity, IE and high Ref save you are going to be quite hard to damage. Damage output is excellent when sneaks fire and can be made decent thanks to UMD vs crit/sneak immunes. Crippling Strike is in to make this little fella an even nastier Doom machine.
KD/IKD are missing. IC is missing too, but thats no big deal at all IMO with a sneaker with this amount of sneak attacks. EP and AS are missing. This little guys tight on feats. HPs are low: one could lower STR to 8 and pump CON to 14 if the loss of carrying capacity ain't gonna be an issue. Leveling up, as all dexers, is gonna be harder than with a STR build but not incredibly so.
Little Deathless Sniper /Rogue 24/Bard 6/Palemaster 10 by Jennalee goes with the same lvl split but does't aim for SC V and her halfling's a sniper (dards are the chosen weapon), doesn't get CS, does not dual wield and has a lower AB.
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Pale Sneaker of Doom - Rogue(24), Bard(6), Pale Master(10) Halfling, any non lawful, non good PvM, Playable 1- 40
LEVELING GUIDE 01: Rogue(1): Ambidexterity 02: Rogue(2): {Evasion} 03: Rogue(3): Weapon Finesse, {Uncanny Dodge I} 04: Rogue(4): DEX+1, (DEX=21) 05: Rogue(5) 06: Rogue(6): Two-Weapon Fighting 07: Bard(1) 08: Rogue(7): DEX+1, (DEX=22) 09: Rogue(8): Weapon Focus 10: Rogue(9) 11: Rogue(10): Crippling Strike 12: Bard(2): DEX+1, Blind Fight, (DEX=23) 13: Rogue(11) 14: Rogue(12) 15: Rogue(13): Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, Improved Evasion 16: Bard(3): DEX+1, (DEX=24) 17: Bard(4) 18: Rogue(14): Toughness 19: Rogue(15) 20: Rogue(16): DEX+1, Defensive Roll, (DEX=25) 21: Pale Master(1): Epic Weapon Focus 22: Rogue(17) 23: Pale Master(2) 24: Pale Master(3): DEX+1, Epic Dodge, {Darkvision}, (DEX=26) 25: Pale Master(4) 26: Pale Master(5) 27: Rogue(18): Great Dexterity I, (DEX=27) 28: Pale Master(6): DEX+1, (DEX=28) 29: Pale Master(7) 30: Pale Master(8): Great Dexterity II, (DEX=29) 31: Pale Master(9) 32: Pale Master(10): DEX+1, (DEX=30) 33: Rogue(19): Self Concealment I, Self Concealment II 34: Rogue(20) 35: Rogue(21) 36: Rogue(22): DEX+1, Self Concealment III, (DEX=31) 37: Rogue(23) 38: Bard(5) 39: Rogue(24): Self Concealment IV, Self Concealment V 40: Bard(6): DEX+1, (DEX=32)
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Advantages Acceptable melee AB Excellent AC Crit immunity Immunity to Paralysis, Stun and Hold ED SC V Crippling Strike Improved Evasion 12d6 sneak attacks UMD Taunt 6th lvl Bard Song Wide skill selection Halfling of Doom!
Weaknesses Only acceptable AB No KD/IKD Low HPs Low Will and Fort saves, Spellcraft helps vs spells Tight on skillpoints Tight on feats No Bard spells
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Feedback and constructive criticism are, as usual, gladly appreciated.
Cheers, Kail _________________ Unto to the darkness I commend my soul Never shall I repent Never shall I be saved
I'll go into the House of Death Before my last breath My enemies all shall die!
Edited By Kail Pendragon on 09/25/06 17:36
Very nice little killer you got there Kail. I have a simular one, but he is RDD10 instead of PM10. PM10 is always nice with AC and immuties so this one is probably just as good.
I would max out trap skill and have Skill Mastery to lay them on the fly, but thats more about how you like to play rogues. Some of those epic traps are really nasty indeed.
Focus daggers and he looks cool to! Go stick daggers up some living asses
Edited By blixen71 on 09/25/06 13:44
Certainly looks good to me. My only critique would be to question the lack of KD. I understand that you're feat-starved, and that the feat is less effective on halflings than others, but still...without KD or HiPS, how are you planning on generating sneaks? Just rely on always having a party to let you get in flanking attacks? Despite the HP issue, I might drop Toughness for KD, unless you really are positive you're always going to have someone else to take attacks so you can get your sneaks in.
but still...without KD or HiPS, how are you planning on generating sneaks? Just rely on always having a party to let you get in flanking attacks?
Well, having played Rogues with neither KD or HiPS, I can say that you have to go old school on 'em. Good ole fashioned stealth coupled with potions of Invis (a staple), scrolls of Invis/Improved Invis, or items that confer Invis, or by flanking--either through party, henchmen, or Summons via UMD-- or having some item/scroll that will allow for stun and/or paralysis.
Looks good, Kail. I may have to share my version. You and I were thinking alike, but I ended up turning the whole thing on its head and inside out. I didn't post it because I wasn't satified with the end result. I never thought to go Halfling Dexed, though, and I think that makes a bit of difference. I would have to say that this is really the most effective way to make this combo work together, particularly in Epic. _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
Certainly looks good to me. My only critique would be to question the lack of KD. I understand that you're feat-starved, and that the feat is less effective on halflings than others, but still...without KD or HiPS, how are you planning on generating sneaks? Just rely on always having a party to let you get in flanking attacks? Despite the HP issue, I might drop Toughness for KD, unless you really are positive you're always going to have someone else to take attacks so you can get your sneaks in.
Darkness and Invisibility work wonders. Summoned creatures help. Usually such scrolls or potions are easily available. There are also other spells that can help generating sneaks, but it depends whether they are available or not. I try to use a creative approach in such a case; it's a little challenge and it adds fun to playing the build. UMD is the great equalizer.
Still, I actually agree that the lack of at least KD (even if this is a small race) is lamentable and so is the amount of HPs. Both have a "solution" although it has a price. For HPs, as said, one can lower STR for CON. For KD, one can go without Toughness. If getting KD I'd probably raise CON at the same time to compensate the loss of HPs.
Quote: Posted 09/25/06 13:42:03 (GMT) -- blixen71
Very nice little killer you got there Kail. I have a simular one, but he is RDD10 instead of PM10. PM10 is always nice with AC and immuties so this one is probably just as good.
I would max out trap skill and have Skill Mastery to lay them on the fly, but thats more about how you like to play rogues. Some of those epic traps are really nasty indeed.
Focus daggers and he looks cool to! Go stick daggers up some living asses
Skills are definitely tweakable to fit one's playing style/environment. This build can set Epic Traps, although on a take 20. About Skill Mastery: the issue (to me) is that I'd have to drop Crippling Strike which I consider a must have. For those who aren't as addicted as I am to the evilest feat of all the possibility is there, sure. Daggers is basically a forced choice for a dual wielding halfling lacking WP: exotic, but I agree that it looks good.
Well, having played Rogues with neither KD or HiPS, I can say that you have to go old school on 'em. Good ole fashioned stealth coupled with potions of Invis (a staple), scrolls of Invis/Improved Invis, or items that confer Invis, or by flanking--either through party, henchmen, or Summons via UMD-- or having some item/scroll that will allow for stun and/or paralysis.
Looks good, Kail. I may have to share my version. You and I were thinking alike, but I ended up turning the whole thing on its head and inside out. I didn't post it because I wasn't satified with the end result. I never thought to go Halfling Dexed, though, and I think that makes a bit of difference. I would have to say that this is really the most effective way to make this combo work together, particularly in Epic.
Indeed we think alike Dwarflord. We seem to lean towards the same strategies too. Creativity is needed when playing Rogues.
About the solution I found to this combo: it actually came naturally, but I think that's because I'm a big fan of Halfling nasty rogues so Halfling was the first race I thought about. The dex way was then open and so the defensive awesomeness of the combo.
Thanks for the feedback guys!
Cheers, Kail _________________
Quote: Posted 09/25/06 11:58:10 (GMT) by xitooner
I find its better to be flexible, THINK, and know your enemy.
Edited By Kail Pendragon on 09/25/06 20:22
I wouldn't be concerned about Hit points. The only thing that can kill him are failed saves on Instant-Death spells and IGMS. With Epic Dodge, SC V, Crit/Sneak Immunity, and a nearly 40 AC without magic items, it's not like he's going to die as a result of combat. No, it's gonna be the usual suspects--Divine, Negative or Magical Damage-- is about the only thing that will kill this bugger. So, that pretty much tells you in a nutshell what items and scrolls you need to find.
What would really be funny is to see 2 of these guys go at one another. Audiences would grow old and die before either one got to "Injured" (and that's assuming they don't have Regen Rings on). _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
Ariel, Ookla, RIDE!
this is a scary little monster. ED, SC, Crit Immune, scary AC. the last thing to worry about here is hp, imo.
a few things i thought of, for what they are worth (not much )
you could drop str and boost int, to get a few more skill points. maybe overkill but a way to go if you want to boost almost every skill.
also, doesn't bard get to cast arcane spells without umd? so the real use of umd here is for monk equipment, unless i am misinformed. also, you could therefore drop umd a bit without any real reprecussions, again giving some more skill points to play with.
nicely done, as usual.
-cs
Who are you and what have you done with sanity?
Sweet build, but you could drop the two-weap tree for a +2 to ab and the chance to get KD and IKD. Also you could use a large shield, doesn't have as massive a skill penalty as a tower shield and its only 1 less ac then the tower.
I wouldn't be concerned about Hit points. The only thing that can kill him are failed saves on Instant-Death spells and IGMS. With Epic Dodge, SC V, Crit/Sneak Immunity, and a nearly 40 AC without magic items, it's not like he's going to die as a result of combat. No, it's gonna be the usual suspects--Divine, Negative or Magical Damage-- is about the only thing that will kill this bugger. So, that pretty much tells you in a nutshell what items and scrolls you need to find.
As usual your advice is sound GD. Those who want KD can drop Toughness without any big concern. And, yes, those are the sources of damage one should address; the sweetness of UMD!
Quote: What would really be funny is to see 2 of these guys go at one another. Audiences would grow old and die before either one got to "Injured" (and that's assuming they don't have Regen Rings on).
Indeed. I'll pay the first round of ale at such an event!
this is a scary little monster. ED, SC, Crit Immune, scary AC. the last thing to worry about here is hp, imo.
Agreed
Quote: a few things i thought of, for what they are worth (not much )
you could drop str and boost int, to get a few more skill points. maybe overkill but a way to go if you want to boost almost every skill.
If you are sure to get STR gear straight away or the build is born at lvl 40, then it's a possibility. Let's keep present that 16 INT means STR 6. For playability keeping STR at 10 is almost a must though. YMMV, of course and so the playing environment and its resources.
Quote: also, doesn't bard get to cast arcane spells without umd? so the real use of umd here is for monk equipment, unless i am misinformed. also, you could therefore drop umd a bit without any real reprecussions, again giving some more skill points to play with.
nicely done, as usual.
-cs
Depending on the environment you might want to get a minimum 34 UMD (and 35 is so close that it's a no brainer) because of full access to divine scrolls; think "Divine Power" ... then think of all the rest too
Some points can be fred up indeed: let's say 5 from UMD and 5 from Spellcraft and 2 from Move Silently with no big repercussion. That's 12 sweet points to spend somewhere else.
Sweet build, but you could drop the two-weap tree for a +2 to ab and the chance to get KD and IKD. Also you could use a large shield, doesn't have as massive a skill penalty as a tower shield and its only 1 less ac then the tower.
The +2 AB is there already, having the dual wielding feats does not force you to dual wield all the time; the use of a large shield (the largest permitted to a small race) is already contemplated also. You can see it in the stats summary values, in fact.
Honestly, if KD is a nice feat to have, dual wielding is a must have. The damage output is higher dual wielding than single wielding, always (vs all ACs) and it grants more sneak attacks which means a faster death for your opponents. Without dual wielding feats you lose a lot. As said, KD can find its way in the build already without foregoing dual wielding.
Once more, thanks all for the suggestions and the kind words. Rock on!
Cheers, Kail _________________ Heavy metal Or no metal at all Whimps and posers Leave the hall!
the possibility is there, sure. Daggers is basically a forced choice for a dual wielding halfling lacking WP: exotic, but I agree that it looks good.
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