Iconic Bard (Playable levels 1-40 with party, group PvM or group PvP lite)

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Another entry into the pure class build thread ( Click Here ), this time to fill a hole which has been long empty: The pure bard.

If you've been paying attention to my builds, you will have noticed that I absolutely love the bard class. All of my bard builds to date, however, have been multiclassed meleers. I could have gone that route (or a similar one, at least) for the iconic bard, and made a buffing meleer with 3 APR, very few HP, not enough feats, and maybe not enough proficiencies, but I decided that would only serve to remind anyone reading the build how much it suffered from being pure class.

That in mind, I went for something completely different: A bard caster. Rather than make a mediocre attempt at a soloing melee build, I went straight at the heart of the bard class: buffs and debuffs. This is a support character; anyone who tries to solo with it will die. However, if you enjoy seeing your allies prodding buttock while your enemies flail uselessly around them (or don't flail at all, if they fail their saves), this is a viable and entertaining build.

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Race: Human

Alignment: Any non-lawful

Starting Stats:
Str: 8
Dex: 10
Con: 14
Int: 14
Wis: 8
Cha: 18

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1 - Bard 1 - Artist, Curse Song
2 - Bard 2
3 - Bard 3 - Lingering Song
4 - Bard 4 - Cha 19
5 - Bard 5
6 - Bard 6 - Extend Spell
7 - Bard 7
8 - Bard 8 - Cha 20
9 - Bard 9 - Skill Focus (perform)
10 - Bard 10
11 - Bard 11
12 - Bard 12 - Spell Focus (enchantment), Cha 21
13 - Bard 13
14 - Bard 14
15 - Bard 15 - Greater Spell Focus (enchantment)
16 - Bard 16 - Cha 22
17 - Bard 17
18 - Bard 18 - Toughness
19 - Bard 19
20 - Bard 20 - Cha 23

21 - Bard 21 - Epic Skill Focus (perform)
22 - Bard 22
23 - Bard 23 - Lasting Inspiration*
24 - Bard 24 - Great Cha I (24), Cha 25
25 - Bard 25
26 - Bard 26 - Great Cha II (26)*
27 - Bard 27 - Great Cha III (27)
28 - Bard 28 - Cha 28
29 - Bard 29 - Great Cha IV (29)*
30 - Bard 30 - Great Cha V (30)
31 - Bard 31
32 - Bard 32 - Great Cha VI (31)*, Cha 32
33 - Bard 33 - Great Cha VII (33)
34 - Bard 34
35 - Bard 35 - Great Cha VIII (34)*
36 - Bard 36 - Great Cha IX (35), Cha 36
37 - Bard 37
38 - Bard 38 - Great Cha X (37)*
39 - Bard 39 - Epic Skill Focus (discipline)
40 - Bard 40 - Cha 38

Skills: Concentration 43(45), Discipline 43(52), Perform 43(72), Spellcraft 43(45), Taunt 43(57), Tumble 40(40), UMD 41(55), 5 left over

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AB (magic staff): +24/+19/+14
+5 from Greater Magic Weapon
+6 (effective) from Curse Song
+6 (effective) from Taunt
Buffed AB (magic staff): +41/+36/+31

Damage (magic staff): 1d8-1 (critical 20/x2)
+5 from Greater Magic Weapon
+3 from Bard Song
Buffed Damage (magic staff): 1d8+7 (critical 20/x2)

AC (robes, tower shield): 21
+4 from Mage Armor
+4 from Mass Haste
+5 from Bard Song
+2 (effective) from Curse Song
Buffed AC (robes, tower shield): 36

Max HP: 360
+36 from Bard Song
Buffed Max HP: 396

Saves:
Fortitude: 18 (+9 vs. spells)
Reflex: 22 (+9 vs. spells)
Will: 21 (+9 vs. spells)
+1 to all from Resistance
+2 to Fortitude from Bard Song
+2 to Reflex from Bard Song
+3 to Will from Bard Song
Buffed Saves:
Fortitude: 21 (+9 vs. spells)
Reflex: 25 (+9 vs. spells)
Will: 25 (+9 vs. spells)

Enchantment Spell Save DCs: 28+spell level
+1 (at least) from Eagle’s Splendor
+3 (effective) from Curse Song
Buffed Enchantment Spell Save DCs: 32+spell level

Bard/Curse Song uses/day: 40

Wounding Whispers damage: 41-46

Spellbook:
0: Cure Minor Wounds, Daze, Flare, Light, Resistance
1: Balagarn’s Iron Horn, Charm Person, Grease, Mage Armor, Protection from Alignment
2: Blindness/Deafness, Clarity, Eagle’s Splendor, Hold Person, Tasha’s Hideous Laughter
3: Charm Monster, Confusion, Greater Magic Weapon, Keen Edge, Wounding Whispers
4: Dismissal, Dominate Person, Hold Monster, Improved Invisibility, War Cry
5: Ethereal Visage, Greater Dispelling, Healing Circle, Mind Fog, Summon Creature V
6: Dirge, Energy Buffer, Ice Storm, Mass Haste

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The spellbook is, as always, open to modification based on taste and environment.

Strengths
-Bard Song and Curse Song as good as they can get.
-Meleers probably won't like hitting you because of massive Wounding Whispers damage
-Lots of good disabling spells with high save DCs
-Plenty of nice buffing spells to cast on self/friends

Weaknesses
-Not much melee presence
-Very limited in ways to actually kill things
-Not much good except for bard song in environments where everything is immune to mind spells
-Low AC
-Mediocre HP this is an interesting concept, but i think that you can make a stronger caster type bard by multiclassing. you cannot reach the heights of bardsong that this many levels of bard brings without some ridiculous equipment. 10 levels of RDD or PM give a lot to this build. heck, even BG would be a nice touch, to really boost those saves using all that juicy charisma.

but points for effort and execution.

-cs Certainly a bard caster would be improved by multiclassing, but the idea in the first place was to make an iconic bard. Once that decision was in place, I had to choose what kind of character I wanted to make with those 40 bard levels, and I decided that a caster bard was less crippled by being pure-class than a bard meleer was.

"It would be better with multiclassing" is a common theme in the pure class builds. There's a reason we needed a special thread to get anybody to actually make them . It seems to me that you sacrifice too much to get an astronomical charisma for naught. The strength of the bard (even an iconic one) is in his breadth of skills. It seems to me that you have severely hampered that aspect of the class in this character by trying to maximize what, enchantment spell DC's? To me an iconic bard is one that does it all well. I think the build would benfit greatly with more intelligence to maximize an amazing set of class skills. Buffs are essentially undispellable once he reaches 26th level, charisma bonus doesn't even come into play.
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Him? That can't be William Wallace. I'm prettier than this man. The charisma is indeed for enchantment DCs, and for getting as close as possible to the top end of the bard song bonuses.

I'm not sure what skills you mean for a skill-based bard. Sure, bard has an amazing skill set, but that's mostly because it gets UMD, Discipline, Tumble, Spellcraft, Concentration, and Taunt all in one class. What would you like to see taken that this build doesn't have? Heal would be nice, I suppose. Hide and Move Silently can be useful, although their use would be extremely limited in a non-sneak attacking build with no way to be a real heavy-hitter (no fighter or ranger levels, no way to get absurd amounts of str, very limited damage buffs with bard spells). What else would you take? I see Rogue or something like it as a necessity for any skill-based build, and that was out of the question here.
Quote: Posted 09/27/06 05:26:11 (GMT) -- Nimueh_Leafbow

The charisma is indeed for enchantment DCs, and for getting as close as possible to the top end of the bard song bonuses.

Your spell DC's in enchantment top out at 33 (no 6th level enchantment spells). With that DC, your only likely to get (spell success) builds with all classes having Will as a low save and no save boosting items. You could get it to 39 with +12 items, but I assume your target would be getting the same or better offset to his saves.

If you gave up 2 points in charisam at the outset, you could raise strength, dexterity and wisdom all by 2 improving your will save, reflex save and discipline skill check by 1, raise you AB by 1, raise your AC by one at the expense of 1 on your spell DC's and Bard Song.

I would even go so far as to lose 4 Great Charisma feats in epic to pick up some sorely needed feats such as Armor Skin, a couple of Epic Skill Focuses (Taunt, Concentration, Hide, Move Silently, Spot, Listen), and Epic SPell Focus Enchantment if you wan to perserve your spell DC's. The difference in bard song from 72 to 69 is only 2 HP's & 1 Skill Point.

Finally, drop lingering song for Heavy Armor and pick up Still Spell for something (maybe move toughness to Epic). You won't do anybody any good if your dead, and with a buffed AC of 36 you will be in short order. With your AC and HP's, you don't need to be knocked down to get hit.

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I'm not sure what skills you mean for a skill-based bard. Sure, bard has an amazing skill set, but that's mostly because it gets UMD, Discipline, Tumble, Spellcraft, Concentration, and Taunt all in one class. What would you like to see taken that this build doesn't have? Heal would be nice, I suppose. Hide and Move Silently can be useful, although their use would be extremely limited in a non-sneak attacking build with no way to be a real heavy-hitter (no fighter or ranger levels, no way to get absurd amounts of str, very limited damage buffs with bard spells). What else would you take? I see Rogue or something like it as a necessity for any skill-based build, and that was out of the question here.

On second look, I can't really fault your total number of skill points, but distribution could be better. You should invest at least 1 point in all skills that need to be trained even if cross classed. With bard song active, you become a true jack of all trades. Open a lock, OK. Thieves tools plus dex + song can give you decent chance at most locks. +1 cc skill + 10 thieves tools + 2 dex + 12 song = 25 plus your roll on a skill check. Not too shabby.
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Him? That can't be William Wallace. I'm prettier than this man. Good advice on the skill points, cross-classing utility skills would be a good idea. As for the rest, it would result in a different build, but quite a respectable one. On further consideration, I think you're right about the jack-of-all-trades style being more "iconic" for the bard class.

As for Epic Spell Focus, I wasn't able to take it during leveling (I used the Novice to Epic mod). Are you sure there isn't some unlisted requirement of something like 9th level spellcasting or a class requirement for sorc, wiz, cleric, or druid? Requirements are 9th level spells and Greater Spell Focus in the school for Epic Spell Focus